CDC Scaled Back Hunt for Breakthrough Cases Just as the Delta Variant Grew (bloomberg.com) 111
The U.S. agency leading the fight against Covid-19 gave up a crucial surveillance tool tracking the effectiveness of vaccines just as a troublesome new variant of the virus was emerging. From a report: While the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention stopped comprehensively tracking what are known as vaccine breakthrough cases in May, the consequences of that choice are only now beginning to show. At the time, the agency had identified only 10,262 cases across the U.S. where a fully vaccinated person had tested positive for Covid. Most people who got infected after vaccination showed few symptoms, and appeared to be at low risk of infecting others. But in the months since, the number of vaccine breakthrough cases has grown, as has the risk that they present. Further reading: 'The War Has Changed': Internal CDC Document Urges New Messaging, Warns Delta Infections Likely More Severe.
Adult conversations (Score:3)
Re:Adult conversations (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it is well past reasonable point for our society to have an adult conversation
If our society could have adult conversations, we could solve 90% of our problems.
It isn't going to happen. Any solution based on changing human behavior isn't a real solution.
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I think it is well past reasonable point for our society to have an adult conversation
If our society could have adult conversations, we could solve 90% of our problems.
It isn't going to happen. Any solution based on changing human behavior isn't a real solution.
Then we perish, because human behavior has created the fucked planet we now have to live and die on.
Was fun while it lasted. Sad we're too fucking stupid and ignorant as a species to survive.
And don't give me this pessimism bullshit. Show me a solution otherwise, ignorant human.
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Thank you for your excellent example of not acting like an adult.
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The CDC seems to have no interest in it. I've been complaining about the CDC's PR op for a while. They don't want to paint vaccines as doing anything less than making you bulletproof in order to max out the vaccination rate, and lots of vaccinated people are getting sick (thankfully, rarely severely). Just heard from an acquaintance on Twitter who got a breakthrough infection and he was shocked and talking like it's crazy rare because of the messaging he heard. It's not rare, at all, with Delta.
In Iceland
No it's not (Score:4, Insightful)
While we're at it, we need to discuss how to prevent the next virus. Because this one wasn't an accident. Epidemiologists warned us for 40 years about the effects of deforestation & the Wet Markets, but we just kept on rolling those dice.
Those are "Adult Conversations". Accepting a problem that has zero reason to exist because we don't want to take money from our healthy ruling class [independent.co.uk] for public health initiatives is not what I'd call being an adult. Giving up and letting hundreds of thousands if not millions die unnecessarily isn't being an adult. That's more like a spoiled teenager.
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We are not Adults; we act like children (Score:2)
Since the "greatest generation" we've made it acceptable to act like children. It differs by generation and how much influence the sick side of American culture has had. I think it has gotten worse with time; however, not by generation as all of them have adopted immaturity as the new norm.
America is not a serious nation even if a few people might occasionally act that way, far too many are adult children in every way that matters undermine the few adults in the room. The Trump disaster was in many ways rep
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Israel was quite clearly herd immune since their vaccination. It's only the rise of Delta that ruined it. They imposed mild restrictions and are now booster-shotting their way back to herd immunity. The virus gets only a comparatively small number of hosts to mutate in. Had they been more proactive in maintaining herd immunity (as they p
The dynamics of evolutionary fitness improvements (Score:2)
Based on this experiment that evaluated "more than 68,000 generations of E. coli," the big evolutionary "fitness" improvements tend to come early.
https://www.sciencealert.com/o... [sciencealert.com]
And the improvements never stop coming, but they tend to diminish in importance over time.
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You won't get an adult conversation on Slashdot. Post actual facts from actual Government health departments on Slashdot, with links to specific tables of data in published documents, and you get mod bombed by people claiming you're a troll while the person calling you a liar and deriding your sources while providing no evidence at all gets modded insightful.
Happened to me last week, happened again yesterday. Now today I get up, find Slashdot has two new articles both telling us the CDC agrees with the poin
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I think it is well past reasonable point for our society to have an adult conversations about how to deal with the new reality that COVID is likely here to stay.
Domain experts have been saying this from the very beginning. Now it is so obvious remaining deniers look like crackpots.
To best of my knowledge we have not reached herd immunity anywhere in the world, even in places like Israel and Canada that have documented 70%+ adult vaccination rates.
What matters are health outcomes not infections.
Re:Adult conversations (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Adult conversations (Score:4, Informative)
They ruled that people could be fined under a state's general police powers if they refused to be vaccinated. They didn't rule that they could be required to actually get the vaccine, just that they could be made to pay $5 if they didn't.
The federal government doesn't have general police powers, it only has enumerated powers. There is no enumerated power in the constitution which allows for a vaccine mandate.
So no, there is no precedent allowing for a federal vaccine mandate requiring people to be vaccinated.
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They ruled that people could be fined under a state's general police powers if they refused to be vaccinated. They didn't rule that they could be required to actually get the vaccine, just that they could be made to pay $5 if they didn't.
The federal government doesn't have general police powers, it only has enumerated powers. There is no enumerated power in the constitution which allows for a vaccine mandate.
So no, there is no precedent allowing for a federal vaccine mandate requiring people to be vaccinated.
Okay. How about just making the fine be weekly, doubling every week. $5 the first week. $10 the second week. $20 the third week. $2560 the tenth week. $2.6M the twentieth week.
While it is pedantically true that the government can't force people to do something, they can make it very, very impractical to not do something.
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A state government would be able to get away with that, at least until they hit the prohibition in the constitution on excessive fines [supremecourt.gov], but the federal government doesn't have an enumerated power for requiring people get health procedures like vaccination.
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A state government would be able to get away with that, at least until they hit the prohibition in the constitution on excessive fines [supremecourt.gov],
Yes, the 2^w bit was facetious. You'd never get away with that. But you could make it proportional to income, and make it a high enough percentage to hurt.
but the federal government doesn't have an enumerated power for requiring people get health procedures like vaccination.
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes ... "
That's the only power that it needs. It's not requiring someone to get a health procedure. It is a Medicare surtax to cover the cost of additional long-term healthcare for long COVID sufferers that is paid disproportionately by the people most at risk of needing those benefits.
Mind you, I'm
Yes the fed gov has tons of power (Score:2)
This simplistic "enumerated" defense is embarrassing. The interstate commerce clause has and is used by the fed to get involved in most everything and whatever that does not cover they control federal funding fueled by their federal taxation powers.
Where do you win against their overreach? In the FEDERAL court system. You win at stopping them in your state, then they can mess with your money and only blue states (2004) actually are self-funded not that it really helps against a prolonged strong push.
Then
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1. The current USSC wouldn't support an unconstitutional mandate, even if disguised as a tax (Roberts is no longer required for a majority), and it's already been well-established that while the interstate commerce clause has been allowed to cover almost any kind of commerce, it can't cover requiring someone to engage in commerce, and certainly not non-commerce.
2. Only "blue states" aren't self-funded. Here's a previous discussion on this same topic [slashdot.org], with all the numbers. They're confusing people's retireme
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So how has the fed moratorium stopped landlords from kicking out our tenets?? It's our property we rent yet we can't apply any existing laws or contracts? The banks need payment too so they must wait for their money?? Most landlords are running on debt... which requires payments... The court has allowed the moratorium on free exercise of OUR property in LOCAL commerce; they only recently stopped a time extension on a technicality.
Wreckless endangerment should be the starting point for the crime of not wea
A bit too reminescent of poll taxes? (Score:2)
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The government already mandates children be vaccinated before they enter public schools. People joining the military receive many vaccinations.
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For schools, some state governments do. The Federal gov't has no such requirements nor can they.
As for the military you voluntarily forfeit your civil rights when you join. The UCMC is the only law that matters in the military.
Re:Adult conversations (Score:5, Informative)
While I understand your frustration, your passion and intent...
There is this little thing called the US Constitution that kinda stands firmly in the way of that.
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While I understand your frustration, your passion and intent... There is this little thing called the US Constitution that kinda stands firmly in the way of that.
Not clear. The opening sentence of the U.S. Constitution sets out its goals: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union..., promote the general Welfare..." Since health is integral to welfare (and the courts are in agreement on this and have so ruled), laws to encourage vaccination and discourage non-vaccination seem to be right in line with the constitution.
Which clause do you think prevents this?
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This doesn't quite mean what you think it means.
This is not carte blanche for the Feds to do anything.
Otherwise at its base..there wouldn't need to be all that other stuff in the Constitution about limited, enumerated powers the Federal Govt. has over the states.
Re: Adult conversations (Score:2)
No, the two-party system (a natural consequence of a winner-takes-all district based election system) stands in the way of amending the consitution.
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conditioning any and all government benefits and services and access to places of accommodation to require proof of vaccination.
Will you require a photo ID to prove the identity of the person displaying a covid 19 shot record? Or are photo IDs still racist? And if not, those shot records are pretty easy to copy so I'm not sure how effective your idea would be,
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Will you require a photo ID to prove the identity of the person displaying ...
And if not, those shot records are pretty easy to copy
Generally they verify by photo ID before administering the shot, and it would be a felony to lie or make a false statement on the attestation to authorities or to present a forged document, And easily detectable by checking the records on-file with the health agencies whom the clinics report the vaccinations to.
Do you risk converting a few nights in jail for not being vacc
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But beyond that, At the very least we need to make it a criminal misdemeanor at least to have not been vaccinated and start conditioning any and all government benefits and services and access to places of accommodation to require proof of vaccination.
Again, only 36% or African Americans and 41% of Latinix Americans are vaccinated. Your "proposal" would unfairly target people of color. You should think of some alternatives: like education of the benefits of vaccinations. You can volunteer to help. When will you?
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Absolutely, and this SHOULD have been the position from the beginning that everyone must be vaccinated once possible. The governments have obviously been grossly negligent in failing to manage "Anti-Vaxxers" and take action to cease the spread of malicious and immediately dangerous disinformation and properly acting to ensure that vaccines get administered to the population.
But beyond that, At the very least we need to make it a criminal misdemeanor at least to have not been vaccinated and start conditioning any and all government benefits and services and access to places of accommodation to require proof of vaccination.
I've been vaccinated and recommend every adult get vaccinated yet I don't support a single solitary thing you just said.
If you are going to use threat of violence to force people to do something you had better have a damn good reason for doing so and you had better make sure all but a few outliers are willing to comply with the law. Neither is true in this case.
It has been known from very early on the most likely outcome was Covid never goes away and near everyone eventually gets exposed to the virus. Now
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Maybe in your country.
In 6 months we've gone from ending the pandemic
to you can still get Covid even if vaxxed
to you can pass on covid to others even if vaxxed
to you can still die of covid even if vaxxed
to the unvaxxed are killing the vaxxed
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The biggest viral problem we have to deal with isn't Covid19, it's Stupid21.
6 months ago, a bit of critical thinking would have made all of your statements obvious. I mean, I thought all those things were common knowledge, I guess not.
It is not a black-and-white issue as people seem to think. False dichotomy is a hell of a logic trap.
Sure in the US there have been 6000 cases of hospitalizations after vaccination -- but there are also 600,000 DEATHS for the un-vaxxed.
It is very obvious that people were looki
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The biggest viral problem we have to deal with isn't Covid19, it's Stupid21.
6 months ago, a bit of critical thinking would have made all of your statements obvious. I mean, I thought all those things were common knowledge, I guess not.
It is not a black-and-white issue as people seem to think. False dichotomy is a hell of a logic trap.
Sure in the US there have been 6000 cases of hospitalizations after vaccination -- but there are also 600,000 DEATHS for the un-vaxxed.
1. It's over 6500 hospitalizations not 6000.
2. You've failed to mention over 1260 deaths arising from those hospitalizations.
3. You've failed to compare deaths on equal terms. The death figures you cite include accumulations over a whole year where nobody was even vaccinated.
There is an easy factually coherent case to be made for vaccines. There is no need to post false and misleading bullshit especially after having invoked derisive commentary on the intelligence of others.
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No one has Biden Derangement Syndrome. He's too inert to cause a reaction.
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biden derangement syndrome?
i think that's just run of the mill geriatric decline amigo.
Re: Adult conversations (Score:4, Insightful)
One the one hand, you have: "I used to drive an 18 wheeler." On the other hand, you have that COVID was "totally under control", "equivalent to the flu", and "one day -- will disappear -- like a miracle." Biden's lie was harmless. Trump's lies cost lives. Biden's handling of the pandemic has been laudable. Trump's mishandling was impressively deadly. And that isn't even bringing up Trump's lies that motivated an insurrection and continue to undermine American democracy.
I don't expect complete honesty from my politicians. I hope for it, but don't expect it. But a politician that can't seem to tell the truth about anything at all, and doesn't seem to understand how transparent his lies are, is grossly incompetent, and surrounds himself with incompetent yes-men, you know, a politician like Trump, that sort of politician will never get my vote.
And no, I didn't vote for Biden. I'm content with the fact that I'm not American.
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Please explain, using facts, what specific actions (not statements) that Trump did not do that he he was legally able to that cost lives.
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You could at least be civil about matters.
You make it clear how much you live in an echo chamber where you talk about civility but have no problem broadly labeling people with terms like bible-thumper, BDS, etc
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Is there ANY step or direction... (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, I believe they are genuinely trying...but they have been at least 2 steps behind or somewhat wrong on almost every step along the way since covid his the shores of the US.
And their horrible ability (through 2x administrations) of getting a coherent and easy to understand message out has done nothing to engender faith in this institution by the average US citizen.
Hell, even the experts being interviewed on the various news feeds seem to be scratching their heads every other week.
As a taxpayer, I don't feel I"m getting my money's worth out of them.
I listen to them, but I don't take their statements as "gospel" on the truth or best path to safe or sane behavior during this pandemic.
It's sad, I"m not alone on this and this has nothing to do with politics.
They should be a first stop on info on this for the US, but they are not and constantly seem to shoot themselves in the foot.
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what a retarded response to a well thought out statement. you are pathetic.
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Seems most of the world's health organizations were completely unprepared for a real pandemic.
But yes the CDC has been embarrassing. Sure, they could have done worse but things could always be worse. For a bunch of professionals who's job it was to be ready for this they certainly aren't acting like it. Disinformation and conspiracy theories were always going to be a problem. Tragedy of the commons is a fact of life with Democracies. But the CDC's poor and at times self contradictory messaging has emboldene
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As a taxpayer, I don't feel I"m getting my money's worth out of them.
"Be happy you don't get all the government you're paying for".
- Will Rogers
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First they said the world was flat. Now they discovered it was round! As a taxpayer, I don't feel I"m getting my money's worth out of them.
I listen to them, but I don't take their statements as "gospel" on the truth or best path to safe or sane behavior during this pandemic.
It's sad, I"m not alone on this and this has nothing to do with politics.
They should be a first stop on info on this for the US, but they are not and constantly seem to shoot themselves in the foot.
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You're usually a bit more coherent...?
I guess it's Happy Hour there...TGIF! ;)
Re:Is there ANY step or direction... (Score:5, Informative)
The headline is junk. The CDC switched from trying to do comprehensive tracking everywhere (which can't work in the US because the facilities don't exist everywhere) to targeting tracking, some of which is locally comprehensive, in a way that is realistic and scientifically sound. The fact that many (red) states have fairly bad public health infrastructure is not something that the CDC can fix on a whim. Actually the governments in many of these states are *actively resisting* improvements of public health being provided at the federal level.
You should also think hard about who is pushing this "CDC did this wrong" narrative. Do they have a vested interest in fooling you into thinking "comprehensive" is an essential aspect in order to make you distrust the current CDC? Even just to get a splashy headline at the price of bad reporting? If you look at the CDC's actual data and their use of it, they have solid information even without "comprehensive" information that wouldn't really be comprehensive anyway. They'd have to throw out all the places that have spotty reporting or recording anyway, so why pretend?
Re: Is there ANY step or direction... (Score:2)
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I hear what you are saying, but will agree with the parent, that I have also found the CDC to be lacking in it's effectiveness. I'll leave to the /. peanut gallery the blame game on the politicians (of which there is substantial culpability). But despite who is in the Oval Office it was my expectation that the CDC had a plan for an eventual, viral, pandemic. And not just a 'playbook' that I could have written in powerpoint, but some real details around how to handle an overrun of hospitals, how to handl
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I listen to them, but I don't take their statements as "gospel" on the truth or best path to safe or sane behavior during this pandemic.
That is good, because this is a completely novel virus and public health agencies around the world are very much learning as they go. The CDC is not special or omnipotent in this regard.
/. actively trying to make things worse.
But at least they capable of said learning, with a continuous goal of trying to make things better, as opposed to massive numbers of entities on social media, TV, and even here on
You are lucky to have an organization that cares about your citizens health, cause there are sure a
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It certainly doesn't give me a lot of faith for wanting to put the Fed govt. in charge of my general healthcare.
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CDC wants people to get vaccinated and to wear masks when appropriate. IMHO these are very reasonable things to encourage, but I think they believe that the rather "messy" truth will not
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I think you're right about the CDC doing an incredibly clumsy job trying to present information and educate the public, and the initial statement about masks is exhibit A.
I think the compounding problem is the shifting nature of the virus and the many things we've learned as we've gone. We also had very little to no solid science about the virus, so the CDC is constantly shuffling from best-guess theory to actual science as well.
I think the other problem they've had is the emergent nature of the virus scie
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yeah, the constant weaponization of any kind of 'best guess' that turns out to be wrong is constantly undermining the attempt of the CDC to encourage correct behaviour. And of course we have dozens of russian troll farms hyping it at every turn.
And that's what leads the CDC to doing this:
"they are making statements with the intent of causing a poorly educated population to take the correct actions"
You can't just say: 'Vaccination is way better than not, and if we all got the vaccine, we could basically go
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What I can't get over is how oppositional some people are. I don't even get what the point of the opposition is anymore. It seems just to be oppositional, at least the way that some people react.
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Fox "News" vaccine misinformation kills its viewers every day, and it's a wonderful thing to watch.
Re:Vaxxed and Ready (Score:4, Informative)
Don't know what you're talking about. Most teachers are vaccinated. https://www.wsj.com/articles/m... [wsj.com]
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LA's teacher union has already filed a lawsuit against CA to prevent teachers from being requiring to take the vaccine. Damned Fox News!
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Couldn't agree more. I'm soo sick of propaganda masquerading as legitimate news. that's why in my house we stick with CNN (though occasionally we'll turn on maddow)
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Scaled Back isn't the worst of it (Score:1)
They aren't even tracking Breakthrough cases anymore. You have Covid, they aren't asking if you're vaxed or not. With reports that upto 75% of D variant cases are in vaccinated people.
https://www.usnews.com/news/wo... [usnews.com]
https://www.startribune.com/de... [startribune.com]
If most of the new D cases are in Vaxxed people, the CDC won't want it known. Question everything.
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Vaccinated People Make up 75% of Recent COVID-19 Cases in Singapore
It does say it, in the title.
You can apply for Facebook Fact Checker job.
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That they are not in the hospital is what matters. Now that we are giving up any attempt to limit the spread, everybody is eventually going to be exposed to COVID, but only the unvaccinated ones will die from it.
Barring a new magical treatment, that really is as good as it will get.
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Show empathy to SORE LOSERS. (Score:1)
If one thing's clear in the wake of President-elect Joe Biden's victory over President Donald Trump, it's that liberals like me need to reach out to people who spent the past four years dehumanizing us and show empathy.
Immediately.
I'm told this cannot wait and it's wholly incumbent upon us, the liberals, to spend time trying to better understand the millions of Americans who voted for Trump and who reacted to every tweet we ever posted with a photo of Trump and the words, "CRY HARDER LIB!!"
I feel bad that I
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I'm sorry that you hateful assholes lost
Actually we all lost. Public Schools were closed last year and it looks like they might be closed next year too. Our kids are not getting educated which hurts the poor and people of color the most. But your team "won" right? Good job!
Lawyers, not scientists (Score:2)
As any lawyer will tell you, never ask a question that you do not know the answer to. If collecting a particular piece of data looks like it might not support your preferred narrative, just stop.
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As any lawyer will tell you, never ask a question that you do not know the answer to. If collecting a particular piece of data looks like it might not support your preferred narrative, just stop.
Lawyers created most of the fucked legal mess we're in now. Let me know why in the FUCK I should listen to those greedy simpletons who have but one goal in life.
"Support your preferred narrative" is the reason "Congressional Representative", is a bullshit title now. The Political Civil War they started, will lead to Actual Civil War.
Again.
As a vaccinated American (Score:2)
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Two days ago NPR had a story about a study involving breakthrough cases in vaccinated Israeli healthcare workers.
N for the study was 1500 persons and they reported 29 breakthrough cases and 7 that resulted in long covid symptoms.
Those are still decent odds, really. That's 0.019 breakthrough cases for every vaccinated person, and 0.0047 long covid cases. The real issue is that 1 in 4 breakthrough cases results in long covid.
The news was generally about long covid emerging in vaccinated people, so there was n
Yet more proof (Score:2)
Yet more proof that they are idiots, and they continue to be idiots by not recommending booster shots. Somehow they have the idea that giving shots to people who don't want them and refuse to get them will work better than giving shots to people who want them.
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But there is no coverup, it's all being reported and acknowledged by CDC. So what's the problem, even Cape Cod cluster in the 346 vaccinated "break through" cases only had four requiring hospitalization.
They rest had cough, headache, sore throat, myalgia, and fever without hospital stay needed. No big deal. Vaccines are working well.
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Seven hospitalizations so far. More than 650 of the 880+ known cases were fully vaccinated. 346 is only the count of fully vaccinated breakthrough cases known to live in Massachusetts.
Symptoms may be minor, but spreading the virus among vaccinated people means more chance of troublesome mutations with immune escape, more severe disease, and so forth.
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No, viral load is low among normal vaccinated, even in those with breakthrough cases it's 40 percent lower. It's the unvaccinated who are rolling the dice orders of magnitude more time compared to usual vaccinated person to make mutations.
https://www.webmd.com/vaccines... [webmd.com]
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RT-PCR cycle counts for vaccinated and unvaccinated people in the Providence, MA cluster are similar, according to the FDA. That suggests similar viral loads for the Delta variant: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volum... [cdc.gov]
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These breakthrough proportions are far higher than anywhere else in the world.
Britain, for example, is crawling with Delta -- 1 in 65 are infected. And breakthrough is nothing like this. It's about 30% of unvaccinated, nearly all mild cases.
I'm not saying these CDC figures are wrong but we should treat them with suspicion.
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That's probably because the population exposed to the outbreak was disproportionately vaccinated, given that it was "Bear Week".
Vaccines are great at reducing the severity of COVID-19, but this shows that the Delta variant still has significant risk of infection and spread for vaccinated people.
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What possible motivation would the CDC have to misinform the public? I'll even allow that they knowingly misinformed the public early on about the need for masks to protect supply for healthcare workers. Forgivable, because it was done to protect the public. Beyond that, I can't see what possible reason the CDC would have to "manipulate and control". Or are you one of the many morons that believe that it's all a plot to push communism on America?
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What possible motivation would the CDC have to misinform the public?
Like all governmental agencies they are influenced by politics. There are many people that do not want things to go back to where they were. That is what "Build Back Better" means.
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Who would want that imagined scenario and what is to be gained?
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After big shocks like this things *NEVER* go back to the way they where. There are so many countless examples through recorded human history one could use to make that point.
Re: This was well known! (Score:1)