US Attempts To Slow China's Innovation Rate (cnbc.com) 137
AltMachine writes: U.S. Commerce Secretary Raimondo wants the U.S. to work with Europe to slow China's innovation rate, while at the same time accusing China of ripping of western intellectual properties. "America is most effective when we work with our allies," Raimondo told CNBC's Kayla Tausche in an exclusive interview. "If we really want to slow down China's rate of innovation, we need to work with Europe. They're ripping off our IP, they are not playing by the rules. It's not a level playing field. And so we need to hold their feet to the fire to make sure that they do that." Raimondo invokes the ideological divide to justify the push. "We don't want autocratic governments like China, writing the rules of the road. We together with our allies, who care about privacy, freedom, individual rights, individual protection, we need to write the rules of the road," Raimondo said.
Similar to innovation history of the U.S. which evolved from apprehending IPs of other countries before turning into a technological innovation powerhouse, China has in recent years greatly accelerated its R&D spendings and fortified IP protections. Of the more than 1,600 cases analyzed, IP owners won more than 80% of the time and permanent injunctions were issued by the Chinese courts in more than 90% of the cases. As noted by Judge Gang Feng of the Beijing IP Court in 2016, foreign corporations had a 100% win rate before that court in 2015. "We have to work with our European allies to deny China the most advanced technology so that they can't catch up in critical areas like semiconductors," Raimondo added. "We want to work with Europe, to write the rules of the road for technology, whether it's TikTok or artificial intelligence or cyber."
Further reading: China's Growing Power Crunch Threatens More Global Supply Chain Chaos
Similar to innovation history of the U.S. which evolved from apprehending IPs of other countries before turning into a technological innovation powerhouse, China has in recent years greatly accelerated its R&D spendings and fortified IP protections. Of the more than 1,600 cases analyzed, IP owners won more than 80% of the time and permanent injunctions were issued by the Chinese courts in more than 90% of the cases. As noted by Judge Gang Feng of the Beijing IP Court in 2016, foreign corporations had a 100% win rate before that court in 2015. "We have to work with our European allies to deny China the most advanced technology so that they can't catch up in critical areas like semiconductors," Raimondo added. "We want to work with Europe, to write the rules of the road for technology, whether it's TikTok or artificial intelligence or cyber."
Further reading: China's Growing Power Crunch Threatens More Global Supply Chain Chaos
Wthout a hint of irony .... (Score:5, Insightful)
He keeps using these words. I do not think they mean what he thinks they mean.
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Don't they though?
The more economic control China wields over the US, the more political influence they can assert. If you don't think that increased Chinese political influence means less of those things he is listing, well then I have some bridges to sell you.
Re:Wthout a hint of irony .... (Score:4, Insightful)
The more economic control China wields over the US, the more political influence they can assert. If you don't think that increased Chinese political influence means less of those things he is listing, well then I have some bridges to sell you.
Even more ironic is the fact TFA is literally a Chinese propaganda piece to dissuade people from doing anything to stop Xi's bid for world domination at the expense of literally everyone else (even his own people.)
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Re: Wthout a hint of irony .... (Score:2)
How do you manage to come up with less than nothing?
Re: Wthout a hint of irony .... (Score:2)
Hey. I am in China and I just want to say you're a gay.
They honestly don't fucking care as long as (a) you don't try to influence politics involving the 3 TS or HK, -and (b) you keeping buying what they produce.
China and America are married and the honeymoon period is over. Americans hate that Chinese stole their ideas and are now world leaders in production. Chinese hate that Americans have no respect for their customs. The fact is, we are more alike than you would imagine...
Re: Wthout a hint of irony .... (Score:2)
Autocorrect screwed me. I typed gaf but same difference.
Re:Wthout a hint of irony .... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, another example of capitalists, who claim to worship "competition", needing to stifle competition from others whenever possible. Maybe the US should put more money into actual scientific research, rather than weapons and the military, if we want to innovate.
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Unsurprising, since capitalism is really, as the name suggests, about capital, associations with things like competition or free markets is just propaganda. The origin of capital is relations like "I own this factory (the capital) so nobody can use it to make things without giving me a cut" (which works by the owner taking the product and buying labour from workers with wages at less than the value of the labour.) "Intellectual property" is the turning of ideas and creativity into capital, "I own this paten
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Came here to say the same thing. Huawei didn't steal 5G IP, they invented it. That's why they are years ahead of everyone else in the 5G space, they did the research, they got it into the standard and they reaped the rewards, fair and square.
All this whining about stolen IP is just letting the US fall further behind. The only way to complete is to innovate on the scale that China does. If you look at Huawei's R&D budget it's way beyond what most US companies are investing. Only really Google comes close
Re: Wthout a hint of irony .... (Score:2)
Wait wait wait. You mean the whining of democracy isn't an effective defensive mechanism?
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again, trying to besmirch raysilvegun with your inane trollish ramblings
so sad
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Yes, in fact, capitalists don't really work, that's what worker bees are for. Wage slaves actually have similar positions in life to serfs working the land for a Feudal Lord or Baron. In many ways modern wage slaves have it somewhat worse, as they have to follow every rule, dress as they are told, and have their time and actions monitored constantly to try and force them to work faster. They are monitored constantly. But the pandemic has made people see things differently, and I am hopeful that changes may
Re: Wthout a hint of irony .... (Score:2)
Many people use the term capitalist to refer to people who are pro-capitalism. See words can have multiple meanings which is complex. I only share because you are attempting to be a dictionary.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
"Work with our allies" (Score:5, Insightful)
Flamewars over whose fault that is may be found elsewhere.
Re: "Work with our allies" (Score:2)
Winner winner chicken dinner. The US literally sold out all allies BUT Israel... discuss.
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.... this Raimondo dude says: "We together with our allies, who care about privacy, freedom, individual rights, individual protection, we need to write the rules of the road ..."
He keeps using these words. I do not think they mean what he thinks they mean.
She keeps using words, and you're right; they don't mean what you think they do. She means them literally.
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A bit rich complaining about privacy too. The EU has far stronger privacy protections, and with the recently announced proposals it looks like China will too shortly.
Slow innovation? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Slow innovation? (Score:5, Insightful)
The article is confusing in general. They're talking about stopping China from stealing Western IP. It's extremely common for Chinese contractors to fulfill the contract while simultaneously stealing the design and undercutting the company that did the R&D.
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Re:Slow innovation? (Score:4, Informative)
China isn't communist, and it's biggest companies make extensive use of IP protections. Huawei, Xiaomi, BYD, Lenovo, they are all innovating and patenting their inventions. They enforce those patents too, both inside and outside of China.
Re: Slow innovation? (Score:2)
China plays the game while it suits them... The works by Mao make it clear this is the only way to succeed at achieving the communist ideal. Though it's arguable that when capitalistic powers emerge, the communist ideal is nullified... The again Jack Ma got fucked, so maybe there is hope.
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I'd say that the start of modern patents and copyright started at the end of feudalism. In feudalism, everyone paid rent, usually in labour (often soldiers) or goods to their Lord, who paid it to their Lord and ultimately the Crown.
As that ended the Crown, when needing money, used various means to raise capital as taxes required the consent of the people (Parliament) and they always wanted something in return. So the Crown sold monopolies in various industries using Letters Patent or in the case of Copyrigh
Re: Slow innovation? (Score:2)
Exactly... the whole point China is tryi ng to make is that ideas cannot be owned. Work for virtually any large tech company and they say they own your ideas even if produced in your free time. The disgusting nature of capitalists as coveting ideas is little different than China saying you cannot really own one.
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And yet every major innovation has come from people striving to achieve a great level of success and reward for their contributions, and everything China has produced has been stolen or based on innovators from other societies.
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You do know China invented gunpowder and paper. They are now world leaders in AI and quantum telecommunication. Your statement is like saying the US in 1800s never invented anything and only stole technology from other countries. China has plenty of people striving for success and reward for their contributions.
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When was paper invented? 2010? 2000? 1990? 1980? Further back? 1900? 1800? 1700? 1600? Wait, 105 A.D?
China from 105 A.D. has nothing to do with the market forces I'm talking about 1,916 years later. Same goes for the other ancient inventions in China.
They're not world leaders in AI and quantum computing. They're competitors to world leaders. And everything I said about them stealing IP as a matter of national policy is accurate.
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Stop the steal !!
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Perhaps the real problem is the way IP is managed.
Up to a point, patent protection and copyright are needed to give inventors and artists rights to income from their work - with patents supposedly providing real details about how something works so that other inventions can build on that in exchange for protection of the original idea, and copyright supposedly being to secure income from original works and encourage creators to make additional works.
The problem is that neither of these systems are working a
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It's really not common at all. These days it's rare for devices to be complete when they leave the Chinese factory, e.g. they will need firmware and maybe some other services like cloud servers to actually work. Even where you opt for a full build, firmware loaded, installed in case and packaged up, rare for it to be cloned. Obviously these Chinese companies know that their reputation is important, and that customer relations are important and lead to steady or increasing business, so they respect your IP.
A
Re: Slow innovation? (Score:2)
Re: Slow innovation? (Score:2)
It's called admitting defeat... we lost. Move to China, learn the language. Though personally I am rather poor at the latter.
Sure, protect your IP. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Nice way to play into the hands of Chinese propaganda that the West isn't about international law, but that they are more interested to keep down any rivals.
The Chinese "propaganda" is actually right about the West's (in particular the USA's) intent. It's shown even by the American's behaviors toward their own allies [amazon.com]. You, along with majority of your fellow citizens, have been brainwashed, repeatedly, by American propaganda (a.k.a political marketing [ozy.com]) whenever it attempts to take on an foreign rivals [vox.com] (or allies [foreignpolicy.com]) in order to gain public supports. The real problem is that you, along with your fellow citizens, will always conclude with "So What?" and then promptl
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How is it propaganda if it's not only true, but the US is boasting about it.
Re: Sure, protect your IP. (Score:1)
Propaganda can be true. I'd suggest it is most effective when it's true.
Re: Sure, protect your IP. (Score:2)
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It's not really propaganda when it's actually true.
I think fortunately in this case the EU won't be interested in joining any US lead efforts in this area.
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It's not really propaganda when it's actually true.
It's not actually true that they want to slow the innovation rate, they want to slow the IP theft rate. Innovation is when you actually innovate, not when you "steal". (It's illegal to violate IP in China too, except effectively when the Chinese do it to people from other nations.)
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That doesn't seem to be what they are whining about here. In any case, I don't think China is particularly bad.
One job I worked at we got hold of the competitor's product and were asked to "investigate" it. Another we set up a US subsidiary company because the US government (!) was trying to rip off our product by developing their own similar one based on what they had learned from contracting to use ours. Apparently the rule is that they can't compete with US companies, so having a subsidiary killed their
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As noted by Judge Gang Feng of the Beijing IP Court in 2016, foreign corporations had a 100% win rate before that court in 2015.
When allowed to bring a case to trial. Whoopdeefuck.
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Normally, you are sticking up for China fucking over the world.
[citation needed]
what an awful message. (Score:5, Insightful)
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awful sentiment (Score:2, Insightful)
But actually work to slow their pace of innovation? That's essentially sabotaging their society. I'm against
awful sentiment western projection (Score:1)
US has a thousand overseas military bases, China has none. US is occupying 150 countries, China is occupying none. Your argument is not only invalid, it's embarrassing.
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Well perhaps Tibet is occupied, and the other Chinese government has displaced the Formosan's turning Taiwan Chinese.
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And, I think that the Tibetans and the Uighurs would beg to differ in terms of your claim that China doesn't occupy.
My country is far from perfect, but I'd rather the top dog be a democracy, even a flawed one, rather than a hereditary oligarchy like China. I stand by my statement.
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That's exactly what it means, clown shoes.
No it doesn't, fumblecakes.
There may be examples of actual US occupation but the majority of the countries with US bases are not occupied by the US.
The basis for the US presence is usually as a protecting force and not for the purpose of exerting control over the country. It is a collaboration, not a forceful annexation or similar aggressive move.
And i mean, sure, there is tons of criticism to be had about the US, but saying they occupy the countries they have bases in is, well, baseless.
Re:awful sentiment wester (Score:2)
But calling us a crybaby shithole? Thats a bit much. We got some serious long-lasting strengths. Not that youre hurting my feelings. Im just calling out that youre perceptions seem distorted. Part of it might be that your understanding of a pluralistic democrac
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US has a thousand overseas military bases, China has none.
Really?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
The US is good and fucked (Score:1, Offtopic)
As long as the US insists on denying education, healthcare and livable wages to the majority of its citizens it can look forward to being a 3rd world shit hole by 2035
hell, the UN already declared the US a 3rd world nation as far as healthcare and wealth inequality back in 2017, but itâ(TM)s going to get a heck of a lot worse
and thatâ(TM)s even if we donâ(TM)t have a 2nd civil war. If we do, then you can kiss the US good bye forever
Doesnt matter (Score:4, Interesting)
If the supply slows down another country can be destabilized and their doctors and engineers brought over, though the Afghan, Syrian and Libyan talent will do for a while.
Re: The US is good and fucked (Score:2)
Stop Giving USA-developed Tech Away! (Score:1)
Since the 1970's from what I have seen. 50 years of chucking our valuable, corporate technology at the Chi-Coms.
Even the USA Federal Government has opened their technology up to all sorts of foreign nationals, giving the Chi-Coms the Federal Governments valuable (and most valuable) technology to the Chi-Com either directly or indirectly.
Close the doors and get on with business!
What innovation? (Score:1, Troll)
This is hilarious! Isn’t it Americans who like to say China only steals and copy and cannot innovate? Now you say they are not only innovating, but are innovating too fast? Oh, the irony!
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China doesn't really "innovate", though. They copy and refine, because that's where the money is. You're probably not going to get the latest in self driving car tech from China, for example, but you know damn well that they'll be the first to produce a self-driving car computer that cost less than $1,000.
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Slow down China's innovation rate ?? (Score:2)
I hope that China 'steals' every last one of our troll patents for product ideas that are sitting around unexploited. The consumers of the world need those ideas to appear as products. Feed those East Texas courts to the alligators.
No need to rip it off (Score:2)
Meet the U.S. Officials Now in China’s Sphere of Influence [thedailybeast.com]
Now that's just a Goldman Sachs level of evil! (Score:2)
Seriously, no normal human would ever think about being *such* an asshole to anyone.
It's like such people can only think in "US VS THEM" and only as an either-or. And they can only feel right if they not only succeed, but the others die too! (The last sentence is paraphrasing what Lloyd Blankfein from Goldman Sachs literally said!)
Yes, I would fight Hitler. But would I try to stop German scientists from innovating? Hell no!
Especially if they actually share that innovation, like China does quite a lot.
And Am
ASML (Score:2)
The rest of Europe has little to offer, except maybe helping in banning Chinese products which the U.S. deems to be infringing on IP.
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Free trade (Score:1)
Multinationals killing local businesses by exploiting foreign workers? It's good and inevitable, and the playing field is even, notwithstanding the fact that local workers have rights while foreign workers are slaves.
Developing countries companies threatening the dominance of American companies? THE PLAYING FIELD IS NOT LEVEL! Let's limit their freedom, shall we Europe? You remember who's the boss, don't you, Europe? Do you really want
Allies? (Score:2)
Maybe start by not alienating the single major military player of the EU (France) as the US did with the AUKUS deal. While knowing full well that statistically speaking, the ego of the French, esp. that of French men, is particularly fragile, so they don't like to see their otherwise OK leader to be taken by surprise by an old ally just like the 45th president wouldn've done it
Saying the quiet part out loud (Score:1)
United States wants perpetual dominance, because imperialism. Prove me wrong, with China having no overseas bases or invading countries on the opposite side of the planet for bullshit reasons.
Re: Saying the quiet part out loud (Score:3)
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How much of America was taken from Mexico or places like the Kingdom of Hawaii?
Unhelpful phrasing (Score:1)
On a cursory check the quote appears genuine. Haven't read all of it, so context may matter, but this is really not a helpful way of phrasing it. It plays RIGHT into the hand of Chinese state propaganda.
Pressure China to play fairly in terms of investments, company ownership, IP protection, standards, etc? Absolutely.
Stop pretending they're a developing country and giving them breaks on all sorts of rules? Most definitely.
Call them out on the shit they're pulling wrt to human rights and privacy invasi
Did we pay China for printing press & firework (Score:2)
Animal trainer, heel thyself (Score:3, Insightful)
How about we stop slowing down our own innovation rate instead:
- Regulations that interfere with small businesses because compliance costs more on a percent-of-revenue basis than for large businesses.
- An overly-complex tax system with bizarre and non-economic incentives and penalties.
- A patent system that is used more to stifle newcomers than to protect genuine innovation and new ideas.
- Technical standards that require payment in order to implement, certify, or even find out what they are.
- Regulations and taxes that reward low-risk 'do more of the same' and punish 'try something new and risky, you'll make a lot of money if it works'.
- Regulations that grant some companies or organizations privileged positions for approving new products or services within their domain.
- Regulatory requirements that drive up costs far in excess of the asserted benefit.
- A legal system that rewards filing lawsuits to interfere with a company's business plans and drive up its costs (lawyers are expensive) when there's no reasonable basis for the lawsuit.
And many more ...
It should work (Score:2)
Because the US has been very effective at slowing the US innovation rate: Title IX nonsense, special privileges for certain groups leading to hiring and promotion of incompetents based on identity, requirements to recite woke loyalty oaths, and the list goes on.
So the US and Europe want a monopoly (Score:2)
They "care about privacy, freedom, individual rights, individual protection, we need to write the rules of the road," but these are the same governments in the Five-Eyes that do mass surveillance, drone strikes on innocent families and are constantly working on regime change in developing nations?
Lenin was correct in his definition of Imperialism, it's best defined as Monopoly Capitalism, which is the
China is OK, the problem is on other side... (Score:3, Interesting)
Just have a look what US maths professors are saying about this issue:
https://quillette.com/2021/08/... [quillette.com]
This country is doomed to fall. Get woke, go broke on massive, national scale.
Innovation is Good (Score:2)
If by this they do mean discouraging activities by rules that unfairly advantage them, either by IP theft or worker abuse or other bad behaviors, fine.
I had a colleague who spent time with Chinese researchers. He was impressed by their energy and ambition. As with Japan, imitation will soon, if it has not already, become innovation. The world sho
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I noticed they summarized it in a way that merged the China shillness, seamlessly behind the original source article in a way that makes it look like it all comes from a published article; and not half legit summary and half CCP propaganda. Way to go editors. smh.
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I read "China Innovation Rate" and lolled myself out of my chair
Don't they mean the "China Stolen Ideas Rate"???
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And it's stupidity like that why the US will continue to decline while the rest of the world moves on. In order to steal ideas, you'd have to have some to begin with.
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We did. [youtu.be]
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In order to steal ideas, you'd have to have some to begin with.
Username checks out.
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Why would make a comment just to announce that you are a massive and complete moron?
(See? Everyone can do personal attacks. They aren't arguments though. So fuck off.)
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Yes. That is literally what they mean.
"If we really want to slow down China's rate of innovation, we need to work with Europe. They're ripping off our IP, they are not playing by the rules. It's not a level playing field. And so we need to hold their feet to the fire to make sure that they do that." --Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo
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"Europe" tells you to fuck off and go die with your corporate fascist cancer.
You're already polluting enough of our culture with your institutionalized psychopathy and moronity glorification.
IP means Internet Protocol.
Go buy yourself a brain and look up the difference between information and matter/energy.
And start working for that money, instead of stealing it with legalized criminal schemes like calling robbery "profit" or calling racketeering "intellectual property".
Nobody likes you, and after Biden, whe
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Hahaha.
IP is also a perfectly acceptable and commonly understood abbreviation for intellectual property.
Europe does not universally hate us
Europe did far worse to the world when it was top dog then anything the US has ever done.
Europe, while generally possessing a stronger safety net, still practices capitalism. What American calls profit and intellectual properties also thoroughly exist in Europe.
It's really not our fault if elements of our culture are ending up in yours, it's exclusively your own people's
Re: Select 1 or more (Score:2)
You're already polluting enough of our culture with your institutionalized psychopathy and moronity glorification.
IP means Internet Protocol.
Yes, internet protocol was invented in the US and quickly supplanted Europe's equivalents like those used in minitel, along with replacing the whole European software stack outright.
Only for Europeans to use the American invented software stack on American made operating systems and web browsers on top of American designed computing infrastructure, just to complain about how Americans keep outdoing them at everything.
I got an idea: You ought to boycott American technology. Just stop using it and be an examp
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The part I'm looking forward to is when US troops finally withdraw from Europe and the EU collapses because they can't afford to pay for their own defense. They got the best deal in the history of best deals, and all they have is hostility towards us. Can't wait.
I expect they will thrive because they don't need to waste a ton of money to defend themselves against the aggressive countries of 50 years ago.
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If the US did not intervene, I do think Russia's chances of re-taking Europe are only 60/40. Not the 99/1 of the Soviet Union era. And Russia is still in the seizing territory mode. Just ask Ukraine, Georgia, etc.
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You do remember that Russia occupied half of Europe until 30 years ago, after 46 years of occupation?
If the US did not intervene, I do think Russia's chances of re-taking Europe are only 60/40. Not the 99/1 of the Soviet Union era. And Russia is still in the seizing territory mode. Just ask Ukraine, Georgia, etc.
Yep, the "Iron Curtain" started ~74 years ago, about 50 years ago the USSR was heavily in their stride. While some defense spending is necessary to keep certain countries from getting ideas, I don't think spending as much as the top 11 countries in the world is necessary. Do we need to protect ourselves from all those countries, at the same time? https://www.pgpf.org/chart-arc... [pgpf.org]
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[pre-WW2 Europe has entered the chat]
You want to bring up 85+ years ago? I was just looking at the cold war, not history beyond that.
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They also expected that they would thrive because they wouldn't need to waste a ton of money defending themselves against the aggressive countries of years ago.
France wasn't one of them: https://www.france24.com/en/20... [france24.com]
Re:Select 1 or more (Score:5, Insightful)
"Stolen" implies you could own ideas.
A lie that the organized crime of Murica made up to *ACTUALLY* steal massive amounts of money from everyone.
Sorry, information is not a "property" just because you say so. There's this thing called "reality", and it disagrees. Wanna get money? Do fucking work for it! Plagiarizing Howard and putting on stupid spheres as ears to make Mickey Mouse was work that was paid off probably a century ago!
And don't you fucking dare put me in the "pro China" corner because you literally physically can't think beyond a one-dimensional static exaggerated dichotomy! Of course I don't like China! They are too much like YOU!
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No, this is about things like Huawei owning many of the key patents on 5G because they invented those technologies. They didn't steal them, they didn't exist before Huawei's R&D department created them.
Huawei spends more on R&D than Apple, and Intel, and Qualcomm. Only Google can match them. That's why some people want to block Chinese technology, they simply don't have the budget to compete.
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For the past 40 years, more and more Chinese students have studied at top universities in top research programs across almost all fields all around the world. They have interned or outright worked in top tier companies in every nation. Many innovati
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America be like:
[ ] China is so primitive and weak, they can't do shit, and we are awesome and rule!
[ ] China is so powerful and innovative, they are a threat, we must destroy them!
Which one is it, you idiots?!
Re: Select 1 or more (Score:2)
This thread just makes me laugh but I probably just need to drink more baijiu.
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we can all tell by your lamely copied username
loser much?