California Becomes First State To Require Covid-19 Vaccination For Students 232
skam240 writes: California has just become the first state to add Covid-19 vaccination to its list of required vaccines for in-school attendance. "The requirement will go into effect at the start of the term that follows the FDA's full approval for that grade group -- either January 1 or July 1," reports CNN, citing a release from Gov. Gavin Newsom's office. For grades 7-12 the requirement is expected to begin on July 1, 2022. Newsom's office said independent study is an option for unvaccinated students. "This will accelerate our effort to get this pandemic behind us," Newsom told CNN's Ana Cabrera minutes after making the announcement. "We already mandate 10 vaccines. In so many ways... it's probably the most predictable announcement."
"I have four young kids. I can't take this anymore. I'm like most parents, I want to get this behind us, get this economy moving again, make sure our kids never have to worry about getting a call saying they can't go to school the next day because one of the kids or a staff member tested positive," the governor added.
"I have four young kids. I can't take this anymore. I'm like most parents, I want to get this behind us, get this economy moving again, make sure our kids never have to worry about getting a call saying they can't go to school the next day because one of the kids or a staff member tested positive," the governor added.
Of course (Score:5, Insightful)
"We already mandate 10 vaccines.
All those whining about being vaccinated against covid conveniently forget children, and themselves. are already vaccinated against several other viruses which, thanks to those vaccines, either are or nearly are eradicated in this country. It's the very reason we no longer have smallpox.
But then, when you have people with this illogic [imgur.com], it's no wonder reason doesn't work [imgur.com].
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Re:Of course (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Of course (Score:5, Informative)
https://i.imgur.com/FrsLzc9.jp... [imgur.com]
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It gets pretty conservative on the coast as well, once you get up north.
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Most of the schools with low vaccination rates are in Marin and Santa Cruz. A bunch of liberal hippies who are afraid of MMR.
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In California, the strongest groups of antivaxxers are rich liberals. (I'm not saying against COVID, I mean against vaccines in general).
You need a medical excuse to not get vaccinated, which means you need good connections with a doctor (or actually have a vaccine allergy, which is rare).
Re: Of course (Score:2)
Sexually active teens have to breath oxygen too. Therefor, oxygen means that you are sexually active! Ban teens consuming oxygen!
Re: Of course (Score:2)
Naw, see if you give it to little kids, it makes it safer for the pedos to molest them. Ipso facto shoot up your local pizzeria!
Re:Of course (Score:4, Insightful)
HPV is spread by sexual intercourse. That should not be happening at school.
HPV vaccines should be encouraged, but school mandates are not the way to accomplish that.
I see no chain of logic in those statements. Why not mandate?
You do realise that the idea is to vaccinate kids *before* they become sexually active? No harm doing it in first grade, is there?
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The trouble is, the HPV vaccine seems to lose effectiveness after a few years, and boosters don't seem to help much. You need to vaccinate people at a point when the immunity effect will be most effective when they're most likely to be engaging in risky sex. First grade is too early - they're working on the assumption that "horny teenager phase" is when the most people will ben
Re: Of course (Score:2)
With all due respect, some HPV vaccinations have been shown to last at least 10 years. Theyâ(TM)re new enough that we donâ(TM)t know how long they provide protection. If they turn out to need boosters every few decades thatâ(TM)s not a dealbreaker either.
Sources summarized here:
https://www.cancer.gov/about-c... [cancer.gov]
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HPV is spread by sexual intercourse. That should not be happening at school.
Right, because the one group that you know will have no interest in sex whatsoever are teenage kids.
Re: Of course (Score:5, Insightful)
Some vaccines, like Hepatitis, the first dose is given hours after birth.
Others, like HPV are given around age 10.
Chickenpox around 1 year.
Flu shots aren't administered until age 6 months even if the kid is sent off to daycare at age 3 months straight into flu season.
Shingles vaccines aren't recommended until age 40 or 45.
We don't hammer a newborn with all of their first doses all at once because some vaccines have side effects whose risks outweigh the benefits until a certain age, either for reasons of biology or social factors.
With covid shots, the risk of staying unvaccinated is clearly quite high in adulthood and perhaps even late teens. For 5 year olds? Who knows if the 1 in 3k to 1 in 10k risk of myocarditis is worth it compared against the tiny risk of covid for the low range of the age group.
One presumes that a lower dose for the pediatric version might cut that side effect risk to a point where it really does make sense.
But legislating a requirement before this is all shaken out is silly.
Re: Of course (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is that Delta seems to infect kids way more then previous strains, judging by how many kids are getting it this year compared to last year. While you're right that it usually doesn't make them very sick, they're still contagious and bringing it home. There's 20% of eligible people unvaccinated here, about half a million, then there's the older people where the vaccine doesn't work so well.
We're running out of a resource, namely healthcare workers, as the hospitals and ICU units fill up and regular healthcare is getting put off with the neighbouring Province starting to triage. Surgeries getting cancelled sees kids (and adults) with other health problems not being able to get the care they need. Nothing like your cancer surgery being cancelled due to the unvaccinated.
Vaccination seems like the way out of this, and it needs to be most of the population.
As for myocarditis, I understand that many are susceptible to it and it gets triggered by various things including the vaccine and I see Ontario is recommending that the young stay away from Moderna and stick with Pfizer as Pfizer seems to trigger myocarditis less. Have to wait for more info on the under 12's though it does sound like their doses will be about a third of adults.
Re: Of course (Score:4, Insightful)
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To be fair, covid is very survivable for upward of 99% of the population. Obviously that still leaves 3.3 million or so people that are fucked. So people should probably go ahead and get vaccinated. Government has the right to do this so it's always been a matter of when and not if.
Re: Of course (Score:4, Insightful)
Shingles vaccines aren't recommended until age 40 or 45.
There's a reason for that, it's to do with the one your 1 year example. Hint: Same underlying virus.
But legislating a requirement before this is all shaken out is silly.
Before what is shaken out? We've shaken it out. The negative effects of vaccination are seen within months. We now have well over a year of trial data and nearly a year of insanely large scale mass rollout data. The risk has been quantified, and decision made based upon the actual data.
Myocarditis? Do you still think that's all COVID does? How can you still be so ignorant this late in the game. Here's a hint: My wife teaches 4 students who don't have myocarditis. That doesn't make them feel any better with 3 of them having completely lost their sense of smell and taste for well over a year now and 1 of them diagnosed with chronic fatigue. And she doesn't teach very many classes.
Just because kids aren't dying doesn't mean there isn't a negative consequence of being hit with a nasty case of COVID.
Re: Of course (Score:2)
I'm not comparing death to myocarditis.
Death is sufficiently rare in the very young (for whom there is not a year of data) that myocarditis may be the dominant risk.
This is obviously untrue after a certain age, and it may be less true with lower doses.
For the record, I'll vaccinate my small children eventually, but jumping to be the first in line is not what I did for myself and it won't be for them. Because covid is not a big enough risk *at their age* and all the adults are vaxxed.
At some point, maybe in
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All the adults are vaxxed? Not even close [nytimes.com] Just the facts man.
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It makes the most sense to try all approaches, a large section of society has decided to believe lies and rumours instead of scientifically based medical advice, they're not going to get vaccinated until someone close they know gets very ill or dies.
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Part of the argument for vaccinating children against COVID-19 is that getting it causes interruptions to their education, and they can give it to their parents and teachers.
I don't know what the situation in California is like, but in the UK children missed a lot of school due to COVID-19 and there is next to no money to help them catch up. Exams were cancelled for two years but even when they come back in they will have to account for a lot of missed education.
Re: Of course (Score:2)
Okay, one side has extremists who would rather die than acknowledge that there's a bad virus going around and their opposite numbers on the left treat vaccine hits like their daily fix of crack and masks like crucifixes.
Anyone remember the Simpsons episode where they go to Australia and Homer gets punched out by the Marine gaurding the embassy with a curt "Here in America we don't put up with that kind of crap, Sir!" I want to move to that America.
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All those whining about being vaccinated against covid conveniently forget children, and themselves. are already vaccinated against several other viruses which, thanks to those vaccines, either are or nearly are eradicated in this country. It's the very reason we no longer have smallpox.
Where is the logic in asserting that because of x therefore y is warranted?
Re: Of course (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: Of course (Score:5, Interesting)
My older kid picked up RSV, gave it to my newborn, and the newborn was in the hospital for a week. The nurses said the pediatric ward was full of similar stories. Covid? Not so much. Perspective is important.
Panicking over phantom risks also tends to take away attention from real threats that have always been there.
I'm speculating, but keeping kids in bubbles probably left a big hole in the herd immunity from RSV too. So all this infection suppression shit has costs too.
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Re: Of course (Score:2)
Infection suppression is sensible only if there is artificial immunity on the other end of it. If there isn't, you're incurring a penalty down the line. Flu is gonna be super happy fun when it comes back.
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infection suppression can mean other things get worse.
Not "can" ... the right word is "will"
Liberals dont fucking care.
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You're lucky you weren't in Alberta, they've almost shut down the pediatric wards/hospitals as the workers are needed to man the ICU beds.
And the bubbles here were 50-100 kids in school last year, doesn't seem that bad.
Re: Of course (Score:2)
Here the schools were mostly shut for a full year and the daycares are naturally podded up at 10 per room max. And the 3 month shutdowns of daycares in Massachusetts scared away a lot of parents when they did reopen.
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Yea, too many jurisdictions closed schools last year, not good for the kids which is why the Provincial Health Officer insisted on them being open once we knew a bit more. They also did the cohort thing. Last year there wasn't much infection in the schools, this year with Delta, a lot more. Thankfully it doesn't seem to affect the young kids much, though they're still contagious.
Re: Of course (Score:2)
Well, it seems your public health establishment is less prone to panicky idiocy and unquantitative unscientific behavior than the US CDC is. At least along that one dimension.
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And those older people where the vaccine doesn't work so well? Look at the number of old people getting infected in Israel. Perhaps we should just sacrifice Grandma, who is helping look after the kids so the parents can earn money.
As for the unvaccinated, unluckily when they catch the virus and end up in ICU, it contributes to the healthcare workers burnout (they're quitting lie crazy here) and means that others can't get the care they need for other health problems. Cancer patients for example having to wa
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And those older people where the vaccine doesn't work so well?
Since in your world a question is a logical arguement, I'll respond in kind:
What about the kids that cant get vaccinated?
Thats what I thought. You dont care about kids while pretending to care about old people. Meanwhile all you really fucking care about is virtue signalling, even when you clearly fucking completely lack that virtue.
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The big problem with the kids is the overloaded health system, take Alberta, damn near shutting down the pediatric hospital due to needing the healthcare workers to run the ICU's and on the verge of triaging, which will include triaging kids. There's enough stories about kids not being able to get surgery and such that the unvaccinated have caused and that is the problem, not the kids getting Covid and getting really sick as they don't seem to get that sick.
Locally there's been demonstrations where they've
Re: Of course (Score:5, Interesting)
"Cancer patients for example having to wait for surgery and kids who need care for other reasons."
Lets ban tobacco altogether then. Because lung cancer patients are taking beds from people who would need surgery or care for other reasons.
Alcohol too. Ban it.
Sugar? Ban! Kills more people than covid.
Adrenaline sports? Ban it!
Motorcycles? Ban! You have safer modes of travel.
Where does it stop? Probably somewhere in a bubble-wrapped cocoon being directly connected to internet, so you can spew bullshit on social media from your "safe-space".
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When they start to overload the healthcare system, with ICU's at 180% capacity, those will also be triaged or banned. I also don't see any of those demonstrating in front of hospitals and preventing others from getting in and stressing out the stressed out health workers.
Governments and other authorities have been banning shit due to infectious diseases since the Black Death, in some cases literally banning shit, at least beside wells and there were idiots arguing against banning shitting in the drinking wa
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Why do kids need to be vaccinated? (Score:2, Informative)
According to the latest CDC data (https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-Focus-on-Ages-0-18-Yea/nr4s-juj3), exactly 387 million school-aged children have died due to symptoms associated with COVID-19 (almost certainly all of whom had diabetes, cancer, cardio-pulmonary disorders and/or other severe pre-existing conditions. There are something like 75M children in the US under 18. A child is more likely to die from a lightning strike than from COVID-19.
The reason this was mandated in CA is th
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Correction: 387 children have died from COVID-related symptoms.
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Each person has the right to decide if the risks presented by the vaccine outweigh the risks of the disease. Just as they have the right to decide whether or not to drive on public roads or send their children to public schools. The fascist state of California does not have the right to fo
Re:Of course (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a friend that wouldn't get vaccinated, and he has COVID right now. He is on oxygen, and can hardly walk from room to room in his house he is so weak. Your choice, my friend.
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Re:Of course (Score:5, Insightful)
Would you like to offer up the statistics that show how many other people have gotten Covid and didn't even know it?? Or were a little sick for a few days?? You know, the vast majority of the population?
I reject your anecdotal evidence and inject reality.
Let's talk reality, then. Is there anything that would convince you that Covid-19 is serious and we should take it seriously? Sure, let's go with the majority of sufferers don't die. Is that the only thing that matters? What about those who get it, don't die, and pass it on to someone who does? Is that a problem? What about those who have long-term organ and vascular damage? Long-Covid sufferers? Add-on effects like the cancers not being diagnosed or treated while hospitals deal with Covid capacity? Do any of those matter, or just that some people have light cases of Covid and are not hospitalized?
We just passed 700,000 dead in the US. Seven hundred thousand people dead. So far. Far from done, right now. Sure, it's not more, but holy crap, you don't think we should take some measures when 700,000 people have died in a year an a half? 9/11 was less than 3,000. For that we spent 15 trillion dollars, invaded two countries and passed the Patriot Act, giving up countless civil liberties. How is it that orders of magnitude more are dead and we can't do things like require people to take FDA-approved vaccines?
The virus is not an individual problem, it's a societal problem. We have to respond as a society, not like a plethora of individuals. Herd immunity? Requires the herd. Pandemic requires everyone in the pan to do something - or suffer. The companion to personal liberty is personal responsibility. Your country - your society - your community - needs you to inoculate yourself against an virus that is killing your country, your fellow Americans at the rate of thousands a day. How do you love your nation so much that you'll tell it no? I never understood how people can love America so much and hate fellow Americans. In this case, be willing to place in danger our most vulnerable. Me, me, me.
Never us. Never asking what you can do for your country, your fellow citizen.
Sorry, that went a little long. My point is: you're selfish and self-centered. If we acted like a society of people invested in our own common good, we'd all be getting vaccinated. Some people would undoubtedly have side effects, and that's regrettable. I wish we could do universal vaccination without that, but we can't. And the alternative - unvaccinated groups spreading the disease and permitting mutations - is worse. So, we should. Because we're neighbors and citizens together, and we want to help each other.
Re: Of course (Score:2)
âoeShouldnâ(TM)t beâ. Get informed instead of hypotheticals.
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Hey, remember this afternoon when you forgot to check the AC box on three of these in a row, vag?
https://slashdot.org/~VaginaSl... [slashdot.org]
That was funny.
Re: Hey you low IQ piece of shit: (Score:2)
Your logic is sound and your heart is in the right place. However let me encourage you to be more critical of which facts you take to be true, particularly regarding the superiority of natural immunity and the small risk posed to children.
Additionally I would say in this case that reducing the amount of COVID food out there is valuable enough to all of us to make it a good idea to vaccinate children. How many additional adults would you let die in exchange for not mandating childhood vaccination? This is
This will really drive the homeschooling. (Score:2)
While this move makes perfect sense, I can see it giving some people (likely Republicans) that extra push to take their child out of public school altogether.
It will be interesting to see if their is renewed interest for a push for school vouchers. I mean, by living in a home, you pay property taxes which go to the school your child is attending. If your child is attending else where, why shouldn't you get a voucher to cover that?
Re:This will really drive the homeschooling. (Score:5, Insightful)
There are much better reasons for removing children from government schools than requiring a vaccination.
Re:This will really drive the homeschooling. (Score:5, Insightful)
If your child is attending else where, why shouldn't you get a voucher to cover that?
Because you're forcing the community to share in the cost of educating your child so we can have a functional workforce and less future prison inmates, among other reasons we want an educated population. If your child is in the public school system, there is a minimum standard in place regarding educational standards. If the public school fails to meet the legally required needs, you can sue and have you child outplaced. Someone is welcome to think whatever they want about our public school system, but they are mandated by law to provide a minimum standard of education and in my area they generally exceed it.
Vouchers shouldn't be applied to Trump University, Liberty University, or their pre-college equivalent scams. I also would vote against any measure to give home schoolers money. It's the equivalent of using your medicare dollars on crystal therapy instead of chemotherapy for cancer treatment.
Having a literate and intelligent population is mission critical for every nation. Catering to every nutjob who thinks vaccines are tyranny is not. I would never vote for nor support vouchers nor any funding for anything but properly accredited educational institutions. They're welcome to make noise, but we're in the majority and the majority of people would never vote to give weirdos large amounts of cash for homeschooling or other scams.
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Liberty University is the largest university in the US (and probably the world) and is accredited. While I'm not a big Falwell fan (to put it nicely) I know a few people who went there and got an education.
My kids also went to a local private religious school for about the first half of their grade school. The school had better outcomes than the public schools in the area.
I'm not sure why the hate, but I probably hit the nail on the head in my last statement.
Liberty university is the 7th largest. (Score:2)
Liberty University is the largest university in the US (and probably the world) and is accredited. While I'm not a big Falwell fan (to put it nicely) I know a few people who went there and got an education.
My kids also went to a local private religious school for about the first half of their grade school. The school had better outcomes than the public schools in the area.
Liberty is the 7th largest according to wikipedia.
Also, your arguments are why private school is good. I am not arguing that they're not good. I just don't want to pay for them to accommodate someone's belief that vaccines are tyranny.
If I want to smoke weed and shove crystals up my ass as cancer treatment, do you want to foot the bill with medicare dollars? I assume you'd tell me to fuck off. I have the right to shove crystals up my ass and smoke weed (in my state), but you have no obligation to
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If your child is in the public school system, there is a minimum standard in place regarding educational standards.
All existing and proposed voucher systems require the schools accepting vouchers to meet the same standards.
If the public school fails to meet the legally required needs, you can sue and have you child outpaced.
Number of parents with the time and resources to do that: ~0.
When a private school fails to meet your needs, you can switch schools the next day.
I know over 100 exceptions to your ~0 (Score:2)
If the public school fails to meet the legally required needs, you can sue and have you child outpaced.
Number of parents with the time and resources to do that: ~0.
When a private school fails to meet your needs, you can switch schools the next day.
My son was outplaced after we sued. We didn't have to go to court. Hire an educational attorney for about 2 months of private school tuition and most schools will settle if you have a case. Half of the students in his school have the same story. So I know about 100 exceptions and our family is one of them. It's very common in special education scenarios.
As far as your argument about switching private schools, that's a red herring. Yes, that is an upside, but I'm not saying ban private schools. I j
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The standards are not identical. The private or voucher schools can eject abusive or dangerous children. Public schools find it very difficult.
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If the public school fails to meet the legally required needs, you can sue and have you child outplaced Someone is welcome to think whatever they want about our public school system, but they are mandated by law to provide a minimum standard of education and in my area they generally exceed it.
Only 40% of fourth and eighth graders [npr.org] can read at a proficient level; last year, 82% of public schools [nytimes.com] failed to meet the standards you advocate, Oregon, having admitted they have no hope of meeting desired education outcomes, is instead suspending all graduation requirements [apnews.com].
Private school students score higher on teh ACT [www.lcs.education], smaller class sizes [usnews.com], and an almost 100% [ed.gov] graduation rate.
Vouchers shouldn't be applied to Trump University, Liberty University, or their pre-college equivalent scams. I also would vote against any measure to give home schoolers money. It's the equivalent of using your medicare dollars on crystal therapy instead of chemotherapy for cancer treatment.
Kind of ironic to make that comparison when your view seems entirely based on pure faith rather than evidence. No one is asking f
Should I fund private schools to skip vaccination? (Score:2)
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Private school students score higher on teh ACT [www.lcs.education], smaller class sizes [usnews.com], and an almost 100% [ed.gov] graduation rate.
Parents of children in private schools tend to have a higher income and be better motivated with regards to education. You have to filter out those two confounding variables to know to what extent private schools are better than state ones.
Of course there are many poor parents who value education highly and my parents were in that group, and I did well in state schools. There are other poor parents who value education but are working all hours so can't invest in it so much. There are a few wealthy parents w
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It will be interesting to see if their is renewed interest for a push for school vouchers.
Unlikely. The politics of vouchers just don't work.
Those inclined to support a market solution (rural and suburban Republicans) already have good public schools.
Those with bad public schools (poor urban minorities) who would benefit from vouchers are captive to the Democratic Party, which opposes vouchers because teachers' unions are their biggest donors.
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Simple fix, outlaw unions from donating while outlawing all other non-living entities from donating. And while about it limit the amount individuals can donate to something like a grand or 2. Works here.
I suspect if Biden wasn't president (Score:2)
It just goes to show that it's worth showing up to vote. Even if you're in a safe state you want to show up because you want to be sure that your guy doesn't have to devote resources to make sure that your state doesn't suddenly flip for some reason. Nev
Re:I suspect if Biden wasn't president (Score:5, Interesting)
I suspect if Biden wasn't president, a huge number of the people currently refusing the vaccines would have already gotten their shots. Why? Because the propaganda machine that's causing them to refuse the vaccines is the same propaganda machine that makes them foam at the mouth over everything Biden (or anyone else from his party) does.
Oh, and those same people would probably be pushing for the very kinds of mandates they're currently protesting against.
I disagree (Score:2)
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I suspect if Biden wasn't president, a huge number of the people currently refusing the vaccines would have already gotten their shots. Why? Because the propaganda machine that's causing them to refuse the vaccines is the same propaganda machine that makes them foam at the mouth over everything Biden (or anyone else from his party) does.
Oh, and those same people would probably be pushing for the very kinds of mandates they're currently protesting against.
I hear you, but think... not likely.
Remember masks. The Republican division was anti-mask, anti-social-distancing, anti-lockdown, anti-this-is-actually-real while Trump was president. They were, and still are anti-fact.
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I suspect if Biden wasn't president, a huge number of the people currently refusing the vaccines would have already gotten their shots.
I thought Trump claimed the vaccine was all his idea and he's the only reason we have one?
The trick with dealing with stupid people is to make them believe the appropriate version of the completely contradictory and ever changing lies that they are being fed.
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Since you're a dummy who is using the Alex Jones technique of spreading FUD, I'll link to the actual quote
https://www.businessinsider.co... [businessinsider.com]
"If the public-health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I'll be the first in line to take it — absolutely," the California senator said during the first and only vice-presidential debate.
"But if Donald Trump tells us we should take it, I'm not taking it."
Teachers have a testing option (Score:5, Insightful)
Students need vax due to unvaxed teachers (Score:2)
Kindergarteners don't have a union to represent their interests against the governor, so they can't use the testing option that teachers continue to have.
The students need the vax to protect against unvaxed teachers
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yeah, but in all fairness, actual schools that went back into session last year found that most actual school covid infections were between teachers in the teacher's lounge. Wait, what? Errr.. FOLLOW THE SCIENCE! That's it!
(the other science: Political Science)
Here (BC), there are way more kids getting infected this year with Delta compared to last year. Things change. The health officer has even mandated masks starting Monday for the younger kids (older already had the mandate) and she doesn't like mandating.
More silliness maybe (Score:2)
A mandate makes sense if it can be demonstrated to either prevent spread and/or prevent severe disease.
For the youngest range of that age range, there is insufficient evidence to say universal vaccination of that age group would prevent severe disease because the youngest range of that age group does not (as a group) suffer severe disease if infected.
As for spread...maybe it's going to tamp down on spread but it's likely going to have more bite on the upper range of the age range since that's the kids who t
Re:More silliness maybe (Score:5, Insightful)
because the youngest range of that age group does not (as a group) suffer severe disease if infected.
And if the kid gets infected from a teacher or staff member, or from another kids whose parents are anti-vax, and takes the virus home to mommy and daddy, like happens with the flu? It's not all about the effect getting infected has on you, it's about you passing it to someone else, vaccinated or not.
Re: More silliness maybe (Score:2)
At some point there needs to be a maximum radius of responsibility.
There ain't no motivation for getting vaxxed like watching your friends end up sick. Most 5 year olds have young parents. Even if they're scared shitless of microchips, it's not quite the public health nightmare that you make it out to be.
And not to put to fine a point on it but it's generally a self correcting problem.
I'm not anti vax. I'm anti coercion.
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What one calls coercion another calls civic responsibility.
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OTOH, young parents are more likely to depend on grandparents for parenting help.
Re: More silliness maybe (Score:2)
Good thing that even in the supposedly antivax America, 90% of the 65 and up crowd got at least one dose.
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That's the average [nytimes.com], but what's the variance? See all those Texas counties in the 50s?
Yeah...
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Re:More silliness maybe (Score:4, Informative)
Literally every part of that rant is wrong with the possible exception of "They should get their shots or live or die with the consequences."
To wit: measles.
We have a right not to be exposed to it [ama-assn.org]
Most people live a lifetime without getting it, and sure as hell not within months [cdc.gov]
It's been effectively eliminated from the US (through vaccination and quarantine), with outbreaks arising from international travel [cdc.gov]
Repeating a prior link, a shitload of people have been spared [cdc.gov]
Name them. These domain experts are doing the opposite [aappublications.org].
Re: More silliness maybe (Score:2)
Ah. So there is disagreement among reasonable and well informed people. It happens. Just as you can't cherrypick dissenters' opinions and claim vindication, you can't cherrypick the majority if the count is less than overwhelming.
Boosters it was close. Claiminng that Rochelle Wolensky's signature settles the science is dishonest. Pediatric vaccination there isn't even any data yet to argue over interpretations of.
If the low dose cuts off the side effects to zero, then there is possible benefit without obvio
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There's no evidence that there's disagreement among reasonable and well informed people. You're literally avoiding providing evidence of any such disagreement, much less of disagreement by reasonable and informed people.
24 out of 33 is not close.
Literally untrue [pfizer.com].
This is called "I'
Re: More silliness maybe (Score:2)
If 1/3 of doctors tell you you don't need a booster, that's not a majority but it's a stretch to call it a fringe opinion.
Okay. You want me to invoke the name of my chosen gods. I'll throw out one: Vinay Prasad. Not an extremist, not an antivaxxer not a whatever. Just a dude who doesn't want to mandate things without a solid reason to do so.
Re: (Score:2)
Assumes facts not in evidence. Less than 1/3 of doctors [politico.com]:
which is not "you don't need a booster."
The man is not against pediatric vaccination [twitter.com]... so what's your point?
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Literally every part of that rant is wrong with the possible exception of "They should get their shots or live or die with the consequences."
Please be respectful and keep derisive commentary to yourself.
Measels != Covid. Efficacy is just not there for this virus not from the vaccines not even from natural infection.
https://www.theguardian.com/wo... [theguardian.com]
Name them
I provided a link in the very post you responded to.
Re: (Score:2)
No.
Wrong. Measles is as infective as COVID and the measles vaccines are less effective than COVID vaccines. [medicalnewstoday.com]
Which doesn't apply to 16+ year olds (still pediatric), and was artificially limited to considering only some benefits [bbc.com], which is why the UK and NHS are still recommending a sin
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No.
Wrong. Measles is as infective as COVID and the measles vaccines are less effective than COVID vaccines.
Citing pre-delta data from December of 2020 shows you are clueless and don't know what you are talking about. I'm bored of the intellectually lazy rhetoric.
Which doesn't apply to 16+ year olds (still pediatric), and was artificially limited to considering only some benefits,
Artificially limited to considering the effects on the individual getting the vaccine which is the only relevant consideration.
Re: (Score:2)
August 2021 [slate.com]: "while the R0 for measles lies between 12 and 18...
The CDC estimates the R0 of the delta variant as between 6 and 9."
Measles is still more infectious.
"The JCVI focused squarely on the health benefits of vaccination t [slate.com]
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August 2021: "while the R0 for measles lies between 12 and 18...
The CDC estimates the R0 of the delta variant as between 6 and 9."
Measles is still more infectious.
This is certainly true. Measles is king when it comes to transmission yet transmission alone is not determinative.
The clear consensus among domain experts herd immunity is impossible for sars2. Efficacy is simply not there now neither is the required stability. Measles is stuck in a local minima from which it is never likely to escape. Generally herd immunity rarely works to prevent exposure. People love to cite eradication of smallpox and successful control of measles yet these achievements are very m
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It is morally bankrupt to force someone to take something to protect someone else.
You're not forced to take anything. You're only required to take it if you want to come to school or participate in certain actions of society. It's a same requirement that we apply to several other viruses and vaccines and have for decades. It's the same requirement we apply to immigrants coming to this country and have for decades. Morally caring about others is one of the greatest success stories of society.
It's only morally bankrupt to be as ignorant as you, Waffling on like some kind of Monster instead
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It is morally bankrupt to force someone to take something to protect someone else.
No it's not. A breathalyzer for example, or baring that, a blood draw. We don't make you do those to protect you from yourself. Almost every single inconvenient thing you're forced to do in life, from childhood vaccines to piss tests to driver license vision exams and the little fucking code on your license that says you must wear glasses, is required of you, for the benefit of society.
My god man, even making your dumb ass wear a seatbelt solely for the stated reason of preventing you from becoming a pro
Re: (Score:2)
Where do you get this bullshit from?
Teachers NOT required to vaccinate (Score:2)
California is following the unions, the politics, not the science. If students have a mandate teachers should have a mandate.
Re:Teachers NOT required to vaccinate (Score:5, Informative)
The teachers are not required to vaccinate, they have the option for weekly tests. And the teachers are the ones more likely to get seriously ill. California is following the unions, the politics, not the science. If students have a mandate teachers should have a mandate.
Wrong (PDF source [ca.gov], at the top of the 3rd page):
The Governor has also directed that adults be held to at least the same standards as students for the COVID-19 vaccine. While currently, California requires all K-12 staff to verify their vaccination status or be tested weekly, all staff will be required to be vaccinated no later than when the requirement takes effect for students.
The current verify-or-test requirement for staff will be converted to a vaccine mandate no later than when the first phase of the student requirement becomes effective.
Short and concise (Score:2)
Good.
My home office is secure (Score:2)
Reading the comments, I have to say the lunacy is alive and well. The pandemic can continue, my continued working from home is secured. As long as there's still idiots who follow conspiracy nuts down rabbit holes and keep the infection numbers high, I should be safe.
Keep fighting, idiots! Fight against mandated vaccinations, for when the numbers drop, I have to go back to the office.
Re: (Score:2)
Feel free to opt out of the world at any time.