Norway To Hit 100% Electric Vehicle Sales Early Next Year (drive.com.au) 234
Norway is on track to bid farewell to the sale of new petrol and diesel-powered cars by April 2022, according to new analysis released by the Norwegian Automobile Federation (NAF). From a report: According to monthly new car sales data released by Norway's Road Traffic Information Council (OVF), the last internal combustion engine vehicle is set to leave the dealership next April, almost three years ahead of the Norwegian government's 2025 stated target for the phasing out completely of sales of new petrol and diesel cars. Norway's equivalent of VFACTS tell an interesting story. In the first eight months of 2021, vehicles without any type of electrification -- battery electric vehicle, plug-in hybrid, hybrid -- made up less than 10 per cent of (9.66 per cent) new car sales. Out of a total of 110,864 new car registrations, petrol cars accounted for 4.93 per cent and diesel for just 4.73 per cent. That's down from 21 per cent from the previous year and more than 50 per cent as recently as 2017 where in the first eight months, petrol and diesel cars accounted for over 25 per cent each out of a total of 102,873 registrations.
If they can do it next year ... (Score:3)
why are other countries taking so long ? OK: it is a smaller country, but a larger country has more: motor dealers, workers needed to install infrastructure, etc, etc.
Re: If they can do it next year ... (Score:5, Informative)
Re: If they can do it next year ... (Score:5, Insightful)
It took a bit more than that, they had to make sure everyone could change at home. Fit chargers in residential streets, in apartment parking garages etc.
They have already passed the point where former petrol stations are ripping out pumps and putting chargers in place if them.
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So does the Netherlands; we have similar financial benefits, the highest charger density of the world and a country fits well within the range of the typical electric car yet still only about 1 in 6 newly sold cars is electric. Also, Dutch people drive about the same distance per capita as Norwegians so that's not it either. Those Norwegians must be doing something else right. Probably being the second most prosperous country in the world is one of those things.
Re: If they can do it next year ... (Score:2)
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Everything in Norway is very expensive
The only thing expensive in Norway is alcohol, aka beer, wine etc.
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So does the Netherlands; we have similar financial benefits, the highest charger density of the world and a country fits well within the range of the typical electric car yet still only about 1 in 6 newly sold cars is electric. Also, Dutch people drive about the same distance per capita as Norwegians so that's not it either. Those Norwegians must be doing something else right. Probably being the second most prosperous country in the world is one of those things.
With the amount of coal burnt in the Netherlands (without afaik having any domestic mining to protect) it's hard not to imagine a political lack of will.
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Netherlands does not "burn" much coal.
Are you an idiot?
Total contribution to all energy is 11%
https://www.iea.org/reports/th... [iea.org]
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Those Norwegians must be doing something else right. Probably being the second most prosperous country in the world is one of those things.
There are a lot of toll roads in Norway which has so far been free for electric cars.
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That's all it took
Can't do that in the USA. You can't even dedicate $3.5 billion to healthcare and education, can you imagine the debate in the senate about spending money on reducing sales of ICE vehicles? I mean let's face it hold a US $100 bill up to a specially crafted light and you will find the hidden message "In gasoline we trust" written across the top.
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Infrastructure. Most countries like the United States still depend heavily on petroleum distillates. In particular, if the United States were to convert to electric, it would take a staggering number of batteries and massive grid upgrades to handle something like 15-16 million new electric autos per year. Even at that pace, it would be over a decade before the United States replaced its entire light auto/truck fleet with electrics, not to speak of heavier vehicles.
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Actually, other European countries will transition faster than Norway did. This is because, the availability of new battery EVs is ramping up exponentially. Norway, became a popular market for EV manufacturers so Norway grabbed all the early supply of EVs. Now that the EV market has expanded out, other countries are now receiving EV deliveries. By 2027, new EV sales will dominate car sales in many countries. The change is going to be rapid with many auto manufacturers going bankrupt just like Kodak did.
Cool beans! (Score:2)
Vehicles? Cars? (Score:2)
Which is it? These statistics could just indicate a shift to drivers opting for bro-trucks.
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Mostly cars. While there are EV delivery trucks and buses, they are talking about cars here. It's not very common for people in Scandinavia to drive a truck as a personal vehicle as it is in the US. I think the US is rather an outlier on the popularity of over-sized vehicles and pick-up trucks as personal transport. At the moment, the majority of mass-market EVs are sedans and cross-over type vehicles with some SUVs. Things like full-size SUVs and pick-up trucks are coming shortly.
Probably not trucks (Score:4, Interesting)
Bro trucks arent much of a thing in Europe. You almost never see anything one might call such on the roads over there.
Definitely creates some heavy doubt on those over here who claim they need them for this reason or that. Europe gets snow, has remote areas and mountains, and does just as much construction work as we do and some how almost no one over there feels they need them.
Yet still pumping oil? (Score:2)
Sounds great, yet I haven't heard anything about them shutting down their operations in the North Sea. Why is that?
Re:Yet still pumping oil? (Score:5, Informative)
'Murica needs gas for their F-150 trucks to haul three grocery bags every week.
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So shouldn't we blame the enabler? You don't go after the end user but the source.
Re: Yet still pumping oil? (Score:2)
This would be stupid in this case, because you'd channel money from an ally (NATO member, European ally) toward an adversary like militant Russia or any of the women suppressing Middle Eastern oil monarchs with sometimes Medieval Age level societies
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Oh my lord, you could drive a Ford
Or you could drive a Chevy
Or a Jimmy if you really like
A mountain of fun, the USA 1
A Motor City Steel
You gotta give the power to the people
I think Dandy Warhols really captured the essence of America with this song. Not one mention of walking, public transport, or a bicycle.
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You speak the truth.
Norway not ready to let go of oil, gas in push for greener energy [reuters.com]
Norway Is a Green Leader. It’s Also Drilling More Oil Wells Than Ever [fortune.com]
Re: Yet still pumping oil? (Score:2)
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Norway has pumped far more oil in the North Sea than it was ever capable of using, and it sold it. It took the profits and invested it in a sovereign wealth fund, which is now worth about 1.35 trillion dollars (a bit more than $250,000 per citizen).
In 2019, the Norwegian parliament began the process of divesting in oil exploration and production. Norway will continue licensing gas and oil extraction, but current plans call for reducing licenses and production by 66% over the next 30 years. Norway has a stat
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headline is misleading, car sales not vehicles (Score:3, Informative)
Also they are counting plug in hybrids and even hybrids as electric when they still have an internal combustion engine(not wrong but misleading).
Article is just as bad or worse than the headline
According to monthly new car sales data released by Norway’s Road Traffic Information Council (OVF), the last internal combustion engine vehicle is set to leave the dealership next April, almost three years ahead of the Norwegian government’s 2025 stated target for the phasing out completely of sales of new petrol and diesel cars.
But hybrids have an internal combustion engine so above statement is just plain wrong.
The list of Norway’s top-selling cars in 2021 makes for interesting reading, with 14 of the top 15 best-sellers full battery electric vehicles.
So if s/vehicle/car/g (translation issue?), headline/article is not so far from the truth after all.
Re:headline is misleading, car sales not vehicles (Score:5, Informative)
About 77% of Norway's car sales are fully battery electric BEV. So hybrids are about 13% and ICE 10%. Their hybrid market is collapsing.
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According to monthly new car sales data released by Norwayâ(TM)s Road Traffic Information Council (OVF), the last internal combustion engine vehicle is set to leave the dealership next April, almost three years ahead of the Norwegian governmentâ(TM)s 2025 stated target for the phasing out completely of sales of new petrol and diesel cars.
But hybrids have an internal combustion engine so above statement is just plain wrong.
Obviously they wont sell any hybrids anymore. So you are plain wrong.
Sorry,
I find your lack of Funny disturbing (Score:2)
But that's a pretty standard description of Slashdot these decades, eh? Probably a personal problem, eh?
You see, these two Norwegian dragons parked their new electric cars and walked into a bar. The first dragon complained that it was too warm, so the second dragon said... Wait for it...
"Shut your mouth."
(Deep apologies to Jimmy Carr.)
C'mon. Someone can do a better joke than that.
The article contradicts itself (Score:2)
"Norway is on track to bid farewell to the sale of new petrol and diesel-powered cars by April 2022, according to new analysis released by the Norwegian Automobile Federation (NAF)."
“I do not think sales of pure petrol and diesel cars go completely to zero, because there are always some with needs that only such cars cover,” Andresen told NAF’s in-house publication, Motor.
“It will still be possible to get a petrol or diesel car for many years to come,” he said. “And there
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Norwat has a tick over 5 million people. That's less than the population of New York City. When taking into consideration those too young to drive, those who don't drive, those unable to drive, the number of sales isn't that great.
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I'm also not aware of how good (or bad) the public transport situation is in either Norwat or Norway, but that's one thing to take into consideration too. Canada and the U.S.A. are huge countries where people can drive over 24 hours and still haven't made it halfway through the country. Except that in the U.S.A., you're not limited to going "either left or right" (insert "there's only one road in Canada" joke here).
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I'm also not aware of how good (or bad) the public transport situation is in either Norwat or Norway, but that's one thing to take into consideration too. Canada and the U.S.A. are huge countries where people can drive over 24 hours and still haven't made it halfway through the country. Except that in the U.S.A., you're not limited to going "either left or right" (insert "there's only one road in Canada" joke here).
Are you suggesting people in Norway or Europe in general should be limited to driving only in their own country? It make just as much sense to cross Canada than Europe by car. I've never driven further than 800 km from where I live (and that's only two provinces). Although I did about 1000 km with my parents driving as a kid. I also did take an international bus on 2800 km as a student, but there were 2 drivers relaying otherwise it would have been too long (stops at night). Most people don't drive very far
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Well, no I did not. I'm guessing that most Canadians and USAmericans don't think much about "crossing the border" because of the fact that we can drive a long way and never have to do such a thing. Most of the people I know don't have a passport and probably will never get one.
I'm going to guess that it's "normal" for Europeans to cross borders on a monthly, weekly or even daily basis for some peo
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Well, to begin with Europe has that Schengen thing where you don't even need to show papers to cross a border. So you don't need a passport to drive from Norway to Portugal.
Re:Ok, but ... (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, what if we'd been all electric vehicles down here ia HUGE part of LA?
We lost 8 transmission lines and a huge section of the region went dark...for weeks.
Hell, there are still some areas out, but the greater New Orleans, Metairie and Kenner areas alone, very large area, metropolitan with no power for close to a month or so.
If that was all you had to depend one, you were up shit creek.
But with gasoline vehicles, people could bring in tanks of gas to fire up cars/trucks and run generators at homes so they could have power.
I'm not thinking the outcome would be so great as that you really can't transport huge batteries and swap them out for vehicles, and home generators...
This is just a situation to make us step back and think.
Sure other areas don't get hurricanes....but they do get fires. They get earthquakes, they get floods, they get....well, pretty much every part of any nation has a natural disaster problem.
And putting all of our eggs into the electric basket which is dependent on a power grid that is subservient to Mother Nature might not be the best idea in the world.
That doesn't even speak to the topic of people intending harm to the grid on purpose via hacking or physical attacks..
Yes, fossil fuel is very depending on the electric grid too, but there are ways to still work with it that simply aren't an option with electric only.
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"I have to admit, after experiencing the aftermath of Hurricane Ida, I'm a bit more skeptical of going all electric than ever,"
People experiencing the aftermath of Brexit feel the other way 'round, electricity, but no gasoline.
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I mean, what if we'd been all electric vehicles down here ia HUGE part of LA?
We lost 8 transmission lines and a huge section of the region went dark...for weeks.
It bears repeating that gas stations are on the grid as well, and that they don't pump gas when the grid is down. And to follow up on that, anything that can be done to get stations pumping gas again (e.g. generators, on-site electricity generation, etc.) is just as applicable to getting electric cars charged, though they do have the benefit/drawback of being centralized, rather than decentralized.
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Yes, but if you dismantle and stop using the current fossil fuel infrastructure, then it won't be around when you need it.
That's a concern of mine if we swing too far to the EV side of things...
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Equally awesome, the US has this thing called owning the entire continent from sea to shining sea, and therefore also don't need a passport to drive from San Diego to New York or Miami to Seattle. It's pretty cool.
We're going to Vegas from San Diego for the weekend and last December I moved my parents from San Diego to 20 miles east of Boise. We've also driven from San Diego to Denver and SD to Kalispell, Montana (Flathead Lake).
Before the pandemic dropped, I had a road trip planned to hit the Grand Canyon
Re:Ok, but ... (Score:4, Interesting)
So it's not really fair to say we Americans don't drive long distances or go on vacations, we just have such a huge country that we don't think about crossing state line because it doesn't matter.
Oh I am sure some USAmericans do drive long for vacation or other purposes. What I meant was that it's not because your country is big that it is a requirement, that you somehow "have" to travel further away.
The cheap gas price in the USA, however, artificially make traveling by car more interesting in the USA however.
Canada is larger, and people drive less per year compared to the USA. I do not have number explicitly on long drives however, people in the USA might just like commuting to work more.
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Equally awesome, the US has this thing called owning the entire continent
Canada and Mexico would disagree... let me guess, you must be from the USA? ;-)
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Technically, people from Europe/Asia/Africa can drive pretty much everywhere across the earth's largest landmass. We in North America can't even go to South America, so are quite limited. The canal is not the problem, but there is no road between Panama and Colombia.
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It shouldn't be constitutional,
It is.
A shame that outlanders know more about your constitution than you do.
Re:Ok, but .. (Score:3)
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Just to nitpick :P
Norway, Icelands and Switzerland are not members of the Schengen treaty. (Switzerland is also not member of the EU, but signed a few EU treaties).
However: in general it is tue. You are either not checked or definitely do not need a passport, but just a national id.
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It used to be normal to cross the Canada/America border. Sunday beer runs, cheap gas, just the urge to go for a drive. No passport required and barely any ID.
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"Are you suggesting people in Norway or Europe in general should be limited to driving only in their own country?"
I live in Luxembourg, 51 miles is the farthest I could drive, so a very small battery should be enough, no?
Not to mention the Vatican, San Marino, Liechtenstein...
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"Canada and the U.S.A. are huge countries where people can drive over 24 hours and still haven't made it halfway through the country."
Europeans call such people 'crazy'.
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To make matters worse, in Canada you can drive for 24 hours straight and barely (if at all) make it out of one province (Quebec or Ontario). 8^)
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Norway is a huge country, too. (And last I checked on American keyboards Y/T are side by side, just for your info)
You hardly will find a car and driving conditions to drive from south Norway to north in less than 48 hours.
Re:Ok, but ... (Score:5, Interesting)
That's missing the point. Norway is cold and has extreme weather. It's also pretty big and you can easily spend all day on the road. If EVs were not going to work they wouldn't work on Norway.
If the grid was going to collapse with all the charging, it works have happened in Norway.
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This will never work in the US because our government is fucking stupid. And the American people like the government just the way it is.
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Yeah, but what do you do when nature knocks out your entire grid for miles and miles and miles, over multiple metropolitan areas....like happened with Hurricane Ida.
People were able to bring in tanks of gas for city vehicles
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What did hospitals that needed to keep vital equipment running do?
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They had gas or gasoline or other fossil fuel powered generators going to keep them up.
And if those staged stores ran low, more was trucked in.
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So there's an easy solution for EVs as well then.
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So there's an easy solution for EVs as well then.
Generators? Yes EVs should come with them as an option.
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Some do, they are called range extenders. They aren't very popular because you basically end up lugging around an the weight and maintaining a fossil burner for very little benefit.
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>
Yeah, but what do you do when nature knocks out your entire grid for miles and miles and miles, over multiple metropolitan areas....like happened with Hurricane Ida.
Norway probably spends money on infrastructure upkeep unlike the USA.
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I don't think Norway has to worry too much about hurricanes.
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Yeah, but what do you do when nature knocks out your entire grid for miles and miles and miles, over multiple metropolitan areas
That basically does not happen in Europe.
As the grid is hardened to the local conditions.
And if something happens, we have "technical support units", consider it a kind of specialized firemen, they bring in trucks with power, gasoline and drinking water - etc.
No idea why you "awesome" guys can not do that in your country.
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That's missing the point. Norway is cold and has extreme weather. It's also pretty big and you can easily spend all day on the road. If EVs were not going to work they wouldn't work on Norway.
This I agree with in regards to cold weather affecting batteries.
If the grid was going to collapse with all the charging, it works have happened in Norway.
This makes no sense at all.
Re: Ok, but ... (Score:2)
Re:Ok, but ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Another thing to look at might be how common it is to even own a car [wikipedia.org]. Norway is at 522 cars per 1000 people, while the US is at 816. Also, when looking at new car sales [theglobaleconomy.com], the US sells .01 cars per person every year where-as Norway sells about .023 cars per person. So Norweigians seem to replace their cars more often, but are much less likely to own one.
It seems likely that many people in Norway who own cars are more well off, and that people often go without cars. But in many places in the US, owning a car is almost a necessity for daily life, so you'll find a lot of people who will simply buy a cheaper ICE car because they have to have something to get around. Also, the range of an EV isn't such as big issue in a smaller country like Norway. Even if most Americans will very rarely take long trips, everybody likes to buy a car that will fulfill their every transportation need, including that once trip every year or two to visit their relative, concert, sports game, etc. in another state.
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Problem is, when the sale of new ICE cars declines, the infrastructure for supporting ICE cars in the community starts to disappear. Even if people buy used ICE cars, the number of service stations and fuel stations will slowly go away. The used ICE car market will also collapse as more people transition to EVs.
For example, in Norway, their fuel stations are slowly being changed to EV charging stations.
In the UK, pure battery EV sales are now 14% of new car sales. The exponential growth phase of EVs sales h
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So true. I was thinking how expensive gasoline will become there as less and less cars use it.
Re: Ok, but ... (Score:3)
That would be true if the cost of gasoline was mostly infrastructure. But I'm not sure it is. It's mostly taxes and limited supply. As fewer cars are on the road, that will ease the limited supply. One country won't make a difference, but the trend is moving that way in all countries.
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That would be true if the cost of gasoline was mostly infrastructure. But I'm not sure it is. It's mostly taxes and
Not in the US. In the US, tax averages a little under 50 cents per gallon. Average mid-grade gas price today as of today is $3.24 per gallon, so tax comes to 15% of the cost, nowhere near "most".
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs... [eia.gov]
limited supply.
I'm not even sure what this even means. You seem to be saying that the price of goods is set by supply and demand, but that's true for everything.
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That's gonna suck hard when something hits, like a Hurricane Ida for example....and you're electric grid goes down over a very large region for a month or more.
Without gasoline and fossil fuels and infrastructure, how will yo
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"Also, when looking at new car sales [theglobaleconomy.com], the US sells .01 cars per person every year where-as Norway sells about .023 cars per person. "
Car salesman: Hello sir!
Buyer: Hello!
Car salesman: What can I do for you today?
Buyer: I'm here to buy a quarter of a driver-side rearview mirror, do you have any bottom-left parts in stock?
Some cars are technically trucks [Re:Ok, but ...] (Score:5, Informative)
Also, when looking at new car sales [theglobaleconomy.com], the US sells .01 cars per person every year where-as Norway sells about .023 cars per person.
Wrong figure.
You want car and light truck sales, since the most popular cars sold in the US (SUVs) are classified as light trucks. Last year that was 15 million vehicles sold. US population is 333 million, so the number is 0.045 per person.
Data here: https://www.statista.com/stati... [statista.com]
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Seek and ye shall find:
https://hedgescompany.com/auto... [hedgescompany.com]
Not sure if tfa has exactly the same data as what's listed in the US VIO statistic report, but it looks like the Norwegians register somewhere around 110-150k vehicles per year. Even on the high side, that's slightly less than 1% (.9%) of the American light auto market.
Re: Ok, but ... (Score:5, Informative)
Re: Ok, but ... (Score:5, Informative)
Norway is almost as long as the US is tall.
Actually no, that's not even close to correct.
Driving from the tip of Florida to the northern part of Maine is ~2,000 miles (3200 km).
Driving from the southernmost tip of Norway to the far remote northeast corner is at least 500km less, and a much less direct route.
Plus there's the fact that virtually noone lives in the top 3/4 of Norway's landmass.
This site [mylifeelsewhere.com] purports to show a visual comparison.
It's always interesting to me just how much Europeans do not comprehend the size of the United States. It's big. Really big. That reality informs a great deal of the American mindset and our politics. It's why Californians and Northeasterners and Midwesterners and Southerns sometimes feel like we are from different countries. In most places in the world, we would be in different countries!
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It's why Californians and Northeasterners and Midwesterners and Southerns sometimes feel like we are from different countries. In most places in the world, we would be in different countries!
Particularly given the climate variations that exist within the country.
From deserts, to temperate rainforests, from alpine tundra to the subtropics.
One silly factoid:
The land area of the Rocky Mountains in the US is equivalent to the area of Norway.
We have mountain ranges larger than Scandinavian countries.
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It is always interesting to me how people can be so dumb that they do not grasp "figurative speech".
Did you reply to the correct post? I'm not sure where the anger is coming from?
The driving distance from Oslo to Tromso - both neither deep south or deep north - is 1800km, or 22h.
1,730 km according to google maps just now, but that's neither here nor there. Again, did you mean to reply to someone else? What I said is "Driving from the southernmost tip of Norway to the far remote northeast corner is at least 500km less..."
I just now mapped from Mandal, Norway to Tana, Norway. 2,591 km. So actually I underestimated, since that's 600 km less than the US measure of 3,200 km that I cited. I also posted a graph
Re: Ok, but ... (Score:5, Informative)
Norway is not only very long, the geography is extremely fractal, i.e. fjords everywhere and a coast line that the Norwegian Mapping Authority has calculated at 124 000 km or more than 3 times around the world.
Since the roads have to follow the coast line and/or valleys for much of the distance, the shortest route (according to Google Maps) from south (Lindesnes) to north (Nordkapp) is 2492 km, estimated at 33 hours of driving.
Going all the way to Vardø in the far north-east increases the distance to 2753 km and 37 hours plus the waiting time for a few ferries.
I.e. adjusting for the much lower average speed possible (almost zero multi-lane highways, hilly & twisty roads everywhere), it is a bit longer than going from the Matamoros US/Mexico border up to the US/Canada border about 1800 miles further north, since that takes 26/27 hours, but shorter than a full Cannonball run LA-NY of 2800 miles and 42 hours.
The easiest way to approximate driving distance/time in Norway compared to the US is to pretend the kms listed are miles back in the US.
Regarding EV adoption, the real key to long-distance driving is a dense high-capacity supercharger network, as long as you have that there is no real problem going anywhere. I.e. since we got our first Tesla in March 2016 we more or less stopped flying except when going intercontinental.
Terje
(who is Norwegian but have lived in the US)
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You can't really blame Americans' ignorance of geography. I mean, they're located right up there, next to the north pole - and all they have is Canadian and Mexican neighbours down south.
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Ultimately, what I have seen is that people seem to be pretty ignorant of geography, on average.
It's true that a lot of Americans can't even identify all the states on a map.
It's also true that not one European I have ever gotten into this argument with could point out Liechtenstein.
Fact is, the land on either sides of the pond is full of ignorant fucking morons who don't realize they're ignorant fucking morons.
Not to s
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According to Wikipedia:
- Norway's total area is 385,170 km2 (148,710 mi2). [wikipedia.org]
- Montana's total area is 380,831 km2 (147,039.71 mi2) [wikipedia.org]
Total population and population per square mile/kilometre aside, we should at least be able to compare driving distances between those two places.
"Electric vehicle" includes hybrids (Score:5, Informative)
Question I have is "how many non-electic vehicles do they have on the road? And how many were bought in the past year?"
I can't quite tell from the summary what the statistic is about. The headline says "Norway To Hit 100% Electric Vehicle Sales," and the first sentence talks about "the last internal combustion engine vehicle", but later in the article when it gets to numbers, the number quoted says "vehicles without any type of electrification -- battery electric vehicle, plug-in hybrid, hybrid -- made up less than 10 per cent of (9.66 per cent) new car sales".
So it sure looks like they are counting hybrids.
The link didn't open to a readable article for me. I looked around for a better link, and found this one: https://electrek.co/2021/09/23... [electrek.co] , which states it explicitly:
"These statistics do count conventional hybrids as “electrified” – somewhat of a strange designation, since they still get 100% of their energy from gasoline – but all of the top vehicles can run at least partially on electricity. And conventional hybrids make up less than 10% of new car sales anyway."
Re: "Electric vehicle" includes hybrids (Score:3)
Yes, hybrids are included. Remove all but BEVs and it is only 70% but steady climbing up.
The last gas-only will still be sold sometime next year, and PHEV will be sold for a little while longer as some special niche vehicles like trucks, vans and long range trailer towers get BEV equivalents. Already it is difficult to sell 5 year old $30k gas cars in Norway, and this will only deteriorate further. Yes, they cost $30k new. $5k is still too high used.
Norway Will not need to ban ICE by 2025. The market beat T
Re: Ok, but ... [everything's better in Norway] (Score:2)
What's your point?
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Norway is the fifth largest oil exporter and third largest natural gas exporter in the world. They then take this "dirty carbon" money and subsidize electric cars for internal consumption. The maybe 1000 electric cars a year that they put on the roads does not even begin to offset all the damage that they do by exporting oil and gas.
I'd be curious how Norway plans to shape its economy post petroleum? We see some oil producers, such as the UAE building a knowledge based economy to replace the oil based one, so there are nations that are forward looking. Until then, it makes economic sense to keep on selling petrol to those who want it.
BTW a quick search reveals the vast majority of Norway's electricity is hydro based. It would also be interesting to see how well electric cars work in Norway, despite their popularity.
Re:They got there by exporting carbon emmissions (Score:5, Interesting)
- We sold a lot of that gas to certain NATO partners for insanely low prices on long term contracts. Italy in particular has benefited from cheap Dutch gas for decades.
- Most of the money was pissed away. See Dutch disease [wikipedia.org]. On an expensive bureaucracy and pointless subsidies.
- While proceeds from gas production are going to zero very soon, we're still paying for a good part of those expensive programs set up in the 70s.
The one good thing we got out of it was financing for the Delta Works [wikipedia.org]
In contrast, Norway did not spend that money but parked it in their sovereign wealth fund. By now, this fund is vast and the yearly returns could cover the state budget, in a pinch. Their economy is fine, their income secured for the foreseeable future even in a post-petroleum world, and they are almost self sufficient when it comes to generating electricity. I wouldn't worry about how they will do in the future.
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Have a look at Bjorn Nyland's videos on YouTube. He regularly does long trips in a variety of EVs. Some have quite small batteries, some huge.
The only time he's ever had trouble, through all the extreme low temperatures and weather, is when he had a few Teslas and a Leaf break down. Occasional queues but those are rare now.
Re:They got there by exporting carbon emmissions (Score:5, Informative)
Wow, that's amazing.
You, and several others who commented above, missed the actual number of registrations in the summary. For reference, there were 110,864 new car registrations, of which 9.66 percent were gas or diesel.
That works out to about 10700 ICE cars, with the other 100K and change being electric.
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Proving again that so many people here don’t know their ass from their elbow.
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That works out to about 10700 ICE cars, with the other 100K and change being electric.
...or hybrid.
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Norway is the fifth largest oil exporter and third largest natural gas exporter in the world. They then take this "dirty carbon" money and subsidize electric cars for internal consumption. The maybe 1000 electric cars a year that they put on the roads does not even begin to offset all the damage that they do by exporting oil and gas.
Funny how they're bad guys for exporting it but you're not a bad guy for buying it.
It's easy to blame those filthy exporters for exporting Oil & Gas when you don't have any Oil & Gas to export.
Rather than blaming people for taking what are by far the best jobs available to them why not blame the people who create the demand for Oil & Gas in the first place?
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Using your logic, we shouldn't waste our time on drug growers and dealers, just those filthy end users? Surely the distributors are just taking the best jobs available, so why not blame the people creating the demand for the drugs in the first place?
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Using your logic, we shouldn't waste our time on drug growers and dealers, just those filthy end users? Surely the distributors are just taking the best jobs available, so why not blame the people creating the demand for the drugs in the first place?
Not really comparable.
Illegal drugs are illegal and harmful (though the harm and continued illegality is debatable).
Oil & Gas are absolutely essential to modern life. It's used to heat homes, generate electricity, operate vehicles, manufacture plastics, etc, etc. We absolutely need to find alternatives ways to for most, if not all of those uses in order to save the planet (or figure out a way to recover and otherwise store the carbon). But until we complete that transition Oil & Gas and their contin
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Using your logic, we shouldn't waste our time on drug growers and dealers, just those filthy end users?
That wasn't his logic. That is your logic.
Regarding drugs, the best way is to legalize them and sell them in drug stores where it is made sure: they are pure.
so why not blame the people creating the demand for the drugs in the first place?
Because there are no such people?
Or do you think a farmer in Afghanistan has influence on the people around you and is "creating demand" for drugs?
That's not what happens with the oil money (Score:3)
Nope, that is absolutely not what happens. Norway's oil wealth goes into a "sovereign wealth fund" where it is invested for the country's long term prosperity and for the day when the oil either runs out (unlikely) or isn't valuable anymore (likely in the next few decades).
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