US Blacklists Chinese Quantum Computing Companies (ft.com) 74
The US has placed a dozen Chinese groups involved in quantum computing and other advanced technologies on an export blacklist, saying they pose a risk of gaining access to critical American technologies for the People's Liberation Army. From a report: The move, which makes it almost impossible for US companies to sell technologies to the listed companies, targeted a total of 27 entities, including 12 in China and two affiliated firms in Japan and Singapore. In addition to quantum computing, the list included companies in the semiconductor and aerospace industries. Eight of the Chinese groups were specifically targeted to prevent them from accessing sensitive quantum-related technology, the US commerce department said, arguing they could help the PLA improve counter-stealth and counter-submarine applications and facilitate efforts to break US encryption.
The actions mark the latest effort by the Biden administration to make it more difficult for China to secure cutting-edge technologies with military applications. Last month, US intelligence officials warned American companies about Chinese efforts to access technology in areas including quantum computing and artificial intelligence. "This is a sensible move and an important reminder of the scope and scale of China's efforts to achieve technological breakthroughs that erode US national security," said Martijn Rasser, a former CIA official who heads the technology and national security programme at the Center for a New American Security think-tank. In addition to the Chinese groups targeted, Washington put 13 Pakistani firms on the "entity list" for activities related to nuclear and ballistic missile programmes. It added the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology to a "military end-user" list that makes it more difficult to sell technology with military applications.
The actions mark the latest effort by the Biden administration to make it more difficult for China to secure cutting-edge technologies with military applications. Last month, US intelligence officials warned American companies about Chinese efforts to access technology in areas including quantum computing and artificial intelligence. "This is a sensible move and an important reminder of the scope and scale of China's efforts to achieve technological breakthroughs that erode US national security," said Martijn Rasser, a former CIA official who heads the technology and national security programme at the Center for a New American Security think-tank. In addition to the Chinese groups targeted, Washington put 13 Pakistani firms on the "entity list" for activities related to nuclear and ballistic missile programmes. It added the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology to a "military end-user" list that makes it more difficult to sell technology with military applications.
Cool (Score:2, Interesting)
But I think the time has come for chinese to start blacklisting US companies...
Re:Cool (Score:5, Informative)
Hold on a second. I thought it happened a while ago. Google, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook...
Re: Don't worry. Biden is still selling... (Score:2)
damn. you are the King of Assumptions.
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Google chose not to enter the Chinese market because it doesn't want to abide by Chinese law, but many Chinese companies do work with Google so they are not blacklisted. For example many smartphone companies in China use Android and make overseas models that have Google apps installed. Huawei actually make some of the Google Nexus phones, back in the day.
Re: Cool (Score:1)
They just opt not to operate in China. They're not blacklisted. They can change their mind and set up in China no problem. Of course, they'll have to comply with Chinese law.
Re:Cool (Score:4, Informative)
China has been essentially doing that for many years, blocking or limiting access to their markets by many foreign companies. You apparently have no idea how protectionist the Chinese economy is, or are conveniently ignoring that fact. For example, unlike in the US, a foreign-owned videogame company can't do business in China without distribution through a Chinese-owned publisher. Hollywood fights for a limited number of movies that are allowed to show each year. Etc, etc...
Re:Cool (Score:5, Insightful)
Blocking access to markets isnt the same as blocking access to exported goods - the US also blocks access to markets (transport for example, finance, military contracts etc) and its perfectly valid to do.
This is the equivalent of China saying that US companies cannot buy its rare earth mineral exports because of links to the US military (ie Intel chips are used in the DoD desktop computers etc) - can't imagine that causing any sort of an uproar....
Everyone is protectionist, the US is just using it in instances like these to conduct an economic war with the Chinese in an effort to try and stay top dog in the world.
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You're seriously going to compare the restriction of critical services / infrastructure or national defense contracts to the prohibition of direct sales of videogames or movies to consumers? That's a hell of a stretch.
Sure, every country looks after its own interests, but it's ridiculous to claim both are "protectionist" when there's such a disparity in the levels involved.
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Yes, I am seriously going to make the comparison, because for 99% of the time from the US side its utter bullshit to begin with - blocking TikTok for example for being a "national security threat".
The US is protectionist, just the same as China is, so Im quite happy to make the comparison.
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blocking TikTok for example for being a "national security threat".
You mean the TikTok whose app was caught deliberately stealing data [forbes.com]? You don't think that's a security risk? I don't think you know what either of those words mean.
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Having a physical presence isn't the problem it's the absurd restrictions in place for those who want a physical presence there. What other nations say that in order to have a physical presence in their nation either a citizen of that nation must be a majority owner or you must sell 100% of your product or service through a native company in order to leech as much money as possible from the foreign company? And then you pay 30% more tax than a Chinese competitor. Where are these other nations that make it i
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Everyone is protectionist, the US is just using it in instances like these to conduct an economic war with the Chinese in an effort to try and stay top dog in the world.
except the economic war is not really working, everyone knows it couldn't possibly work and by its sheer momentum it is already clear that china is the new superpower for the next few decades. this isn't about trade anymore, but about shaping domestic and international opinion to fuel an environment hostile to china, likely because this might potentially favor a scenario where the us will still have some relevance, namely the military. and china being, well, china, doesn't help at all. they're not even tryi
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This is the equivalent of China saying that US companies cannot buy its rare earth mineral exports because of links to the US military (ie Intel chips are used in the DoD desktop computers etc) - can't imagine that causing any sort of an uproar....
The equivalent would be MORE than that, it would be China also banning any third party buying rare earth from China to sell or resell rare earth to US companies, and also include companies not registered in the US but substantially owned by US persons.
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That's essentially how Europe works as well. All the big tech companies have local subsidiaries in each country they offer service to. They have to, for legal reasons. If they had a choice they would just operate from the US and ignore local laws like GDPR, but they don't have a choice.
US tech companies do operate in China, e.g. Apple and Microsoft. They aren't blacklisted, they just have to have local subsidiaries who are governed by Chinese law. Not just for compliance with things like censorship, but for
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> But I think the time has come for chinese to start blacklisting US companies...
The CCP make demands that the companies make everything to work with China's infrastructure or allow unfettered access.
No need for a blacklist when you can openly intrude and blackmail.
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> not to mention evil maid attacks during lunch.
I hate it when an attack interrupts my lunch.
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If you ate at our cafeteria, you'd welcome it.
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Perhaps one day China will say FU to USA and ban all trade to the States leading the USA to cry
Re: Cool (Score:3)
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Oh no... what ever am i going to do without all that junk sold at walmart or on amazon!?!
Well the President had to just recently publicly reassure America that the shelves wouldn't be bare this Christmas.
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Only after they have milked you dry.
It's gonna be a bit like reverse colonialism. Just like we cut Africa loose when they couldn't buy our crap anymore.
What have the Romans ever done for us. (Score:2)
Americans are just cranky because China didn't go according to their plan.
Develop China as a captured consumer market for American products and companies, and sell everything to them. Keeping all the profits for themselves. Bonus points for also getting them to do all the actual work.
China thought about this though and didn't fall for it. Sorry we can own our own businesses and make our own stuff. What do we need you for again?
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China basically just went: "Good idea. And look, we don't even have to develop you, you are already a market for our crap".
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It suits them to take the high ground. They are continuing to position themselves as the open, reliable partner that won't put sanctions on your country.
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It suits them to take the high ground. They are continuing to position themselves as the open, reliable partner that won't put sanctions on your country.
Unless you're country is Australia.
Or you mention Covid.
Or claim Taiwan is a separate country.
Or hurt China's feelings in any other way.
etc
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What do you mean, copycat Chinese companies wouldn't be able to sell their "high tech" to US firms? List things of note that China invented in the last 100 years
Quantum Radar (Score:2)
The US doesn't want China to beat them to a practical quantum radar.
Re: Quantum Radar (Score:2)
..or quantum drive..
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I thought it was a Quantum Leap
Re:Quantum Radar (Score:5, Insightful)
The US doesn't want China to beat them, period.
The problem is, China is about to overtake the US on just about every technological fronts on its own merits nowadays. This whole "we don't want China to copy our tech" thing is a strawman: it's just the US trying to cling on to the few technological advantages they still possess a bit longer.
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"They started it!"
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China has shown hints recently that they might be thinking about starting an expansionist war - building a hypersonic vehicle in secret, quietly using mock US warships as target practice, and intimidating Taiwan for example. And this comes after years of military buildup. If they team up with Russia and have hypersonic nuke attacks up their sleeve, they could pose a serious threat to the US & allies, and would probably start by taking over disputed/quasi-independent territories to gauge NATO reactions.
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Complete projection and propaganda. It's China and Russia that have been dragged into a new cold war by the United States, not the other way around.
A decade after Obama announced a trillion dollar upgrade program of America's nuclear arsenal, and "Asian pivot" that increased military buildup around China.
GTFO of the region and they won't need to. Imagine the vapors you Crybullies would get if it was Russia and China doin
Re: American fear. (Score:2)
What do you mean "like UK did"? UK STILL thinks it's the No.1! And Boris thinks he'll get all those Noble laureates to apply for free visas.
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China has shown hints recently that they might be thinking about starting an expansionist war - building a hypersonic vehicle in secret, quietly using mock US warships as target practice, and intimidating Taiwan for example.
Or, they're preparing for interference over Taiwan.
Nothing about what you said hints at any expansionist war. The US constantly shows its might in the South China sea, and constantly boasts about the power of its carrier fleet. Why would they not invest resources and training to fight against that when the US has clearly stated that they're trying to limit China's economic growth? If the US gains complete control of shipping routes that Taiwan is near, China's export economy would grind to a halt.
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According to the high-tech patents and top papers recent years, China is catching up very fast, and there is no way to stop: China has talent, money, and policy.
After all, products, patents, and papers show the facts, not CIA reports.
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So US practically acknowledges quantum radar is workable. Chinese say - thank you very much.
They can still get their stuff through a proxy that isn't blacklisted, until they anyway design their own.
You fools! (Score:3)
Eight of the Chinese groups were specifically targeted to prevent them from accessing sensitive quantum-related technology, ...
You've just helped them with the uncertainly problem; now the Chinese definitely know where the equipment is *and* where it's (not) going.
A short term solution (Score:2)
to the problem of the Chinese gaining a technical advantage. It will no be long before the Chinese develop locally made replacements for what they can no longer import. The better long term solution is to increase investment over here - both in people and research.
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What is this "long term" of which you speak? The CFO can't find that on next quarter's balance sheet...
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There are countless examples of this happening. Every time we block an export to China, they quickly develop their own infrastructure in a decade or two. Then, there is no longer a feasible means to re-initiate trade on the good and likely they will eat other markets that demand the good. Globalism can be a beast in this way.
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Investment in people? Is slavery finally legal again?
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It never stopped being legal, it's still explicitly legal to enslave prisoners in the USA. So anyone you can drum up some bogus charges against and prosecute in a crooked court (no shortage of those around here) can be enslaved.
And guess what, China does exactly the same thing. Literally.
We are what we abhor, we're just not quite as far down the road of authoritarianism... yet.
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No, not really. Slavery isn't legal, and nobody really wants to reinstate it. Why would I want to? I first have to buy a slave, then I have to feed and shelter it, I have to train it and all the time I run the risk of my slave getting sick or dying. All that nasty shit is gone if I just hire a worker. I get them for free, can pay them less than feeding and sheltering would cost, offload the training to them along with the risk of sickness and death.
Why the hell would I want slaves?
Reagan moment without the irony (Score:2)
"My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes."
Monopoly? (Score:1)
In further news, China retaliates.... (Score:2)
and they make use of 1.4billion people to gain a massive lead over the US and by 2030 blows past the U.S. in pretty much everything and the U.S. keeps trying to use protectionism as an excuse not to compete on innovation.
Far too many people in leadership are too dumb to realize China has A LOT of really smart people.
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Yup. It worked so well with processors. China went ahead and developed their own, used them to (probably) build the two most powerful computers in existence, and now the US is short on chips.
China developed MIPS ? (Score:1)
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Quantum list. (Score:2)
You might be on the list or you might not. It's only certain if you actually check the list.
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Quantum computers are still toys (Score:2)
Speaking as someone who has run algorithms on actual quantum computers, I can tell you they are all still "toys" at this moment. There is basically nothing useful they can do. There is too much noise in them to run data through more than a few quantum gates without losing state coherence. I'd draw a comparison with neural networks in the 1990's. It seems silly to freak out over them...check back in 5-10 years.
Re: Quantum computers are still toys (Score:2)
So people are actually using real neural networks instead of matrices that pretend to be Kohonen maps? Oh cool!
QRNGs and NV diamonds? (Score:3)
Quantum Teleportation is just Bells Inequality theoretical apprati, Superdense Coding is kind of pointless as a product, QKD is hobbled by realities of detector physics. Quantum computers are basically just cryogenic plumbing and transimpedance amplifiers, nothing special. That only leaves QRNGs and NV diamond sensors?
Any other quantum products that might actually be covered under such a blacklist?
tech arms race (Score:1)