US Opens Probe Into Amazon Warehouse Fatal Collapse in Illinois (reuters.com) 129
The U.S. workplace safety watchdog is investigating the circumstances around the collapse during Friday night's storm of an Amazon.com building in Illinois in which six workers died, an official at the U.S. Department of Labor said on Monday. From a report: The U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has six months to complete its investigation, issue citations, and propose monetary penalties if violations of workplace safety and/or health regulations are found, Scott Allen, a U.S. Department of Labor regional director for public affairs, said via email. He added that compliance officers have been on site since Saturday. Six workers were killed when the Amazon warehouse in Edwardsville, Illinois, buckled under the force of a devastating storm, police said. A barrage of tornadoes ripped through six U.S. states, leaving a trail of death and destruction at homes and businesses stretching more than 200 miles (322 km).
Once again it takes multiple deaths before (Score:3, Insightful)
anyone gives a fuck. Merry Christmas, Jeff.
Re: Once again it takes multiple deaths before (Score:2)
Yeah. [slashdot.org]
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Pretty good FP. It even calls for a Subject-based response.
The disgusting difference is that Jeff [Bezos] bans smartphones, so his workers couldn't even be warned about the tornadoes.
In sad contrast, the managers at the candle factory are probably going to get sued to corporate death for being relatively humane and letting their employees carry their smartphones at work. The employees were warned and THEN the managers told them to ignore the warnings. When you look at those pictures, you feel like it's a mi
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I don't shop at Amazon! is the new I don't own a TV.
I do not own a TV. It's in my wife's name!
Re:Once again it takes multiple deaths before (Score:5, Insightful)
If the managers were more concerned about meeting a quota than they were about their workers remaining alive when they had a credible warning of imminent danger, they deserve to be sued into oblivion. It could be argued that they deserve to do time.
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The site received tornado warnings between 8:06 p.m. and 8:16 p.m. before the tornado struck the building at 8:27 p.m., Amazon said.
Several employees told Reuters over the weekend that workers had been directed by Amazon managers to shelter in bathrooms after receiving emergency alerts on mobile phones from authorities.
Some of the workers told Reuters they had mobile phones with them despite what they believed was an Amazon policy preventing them from having the phones in their possession while at work. Amazon said there was no policy preventing employees or contractors from having phones at work.
Maybe actually read the article next time rather than conspiracy theories on Facebook? Also, a 150mph tornado is going to destroy pretty much everything that isn't specifically built to withstand one, and doing so is unbelievably expensive. That's why buildings have tornado shelters.
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Tornado proof buildings are not practical for warehouses. So the real question is why did they not have a tornado shelter in the building? They had a good 10 minutes warning to get there if one had existed.
Didn't any one in management see Twister?
Re: Once again it takes multiple deaths before (Score:2)
Didn't any one in management see Twister?
Hell, it's on Amazon Prime
Re: Once again it takes multiple deaths before (Score:4, Insightful)
Thanks for clarifying my misperception and I should also apologize for not following the details as closely as I should. However, I stand by my assessment of Amazon as a fundamentally evil company (which does make me too willing to give too much credence to bad reports about Amazon) even though in this case Amazon's managers acted properly.
In other words, despite every assertion I made having been proven false, I stand by my attack on Amazon because, well, I want to, even though they appear to have done everything I could have expected them to do in this instance.
If you attack someone even when they do everything correctly what is their motivation to change?
Damned if you do, damned if you don't isn't a recipient for positive change.
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But stooping to RTFA? That's just a low blow on Slashdot.
Haha.
Anyway, I get what you mean: Amazon's track record in their treatment of employees is not good, so it makes us ready to believe the worst in this case. I too am still concerned over their broader labor practices. However, at this early point it does seem that a lot of what's been said in regard to the tornado disaster is mere hearsay and groundless accusations. I've heard people criticize them, for example, for telling employees to shelter immediately instead of going home. But that's just common sense
Re:Once again it takes multiple deaths before (Score:5, Informative)
In at least one case, someone at the warehouse was able to text his girlfriend saying he would be home after the storm passed. When she asked what he meant by that, he said Amazon would not let them leave [snopes.com]. He died during the collapse of the warehouse.
It will be intersting to see how Amazon wiggles out of this fact.
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Perhaps the Amazon managers thought that the employees would be safer in the building than out in their cars.
They might have been following these safety tips: https://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/safety.html [noaa.gov]
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It will be intersting to see how Amazon wiggles out of this fact.
Their wiggling won't live or die on that fact. Rather it will be debated on the amount of protection provided by the workplace (which in this case was clearly well and truly not enough).
It's common practice for companies to prevent employees from leaving during a dangerous situation. But it also stands to reason that a company must be capable of handling said situation. We have a facility in tornado alley as a policy we also don't let employees leave during a storm, but mind you we also muster them in purpo
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The disgusting difference is that Jeff [Bezos] bans smartphones, so his workers couldn't even be warned about the tornadoes.
Except they were warned and went to the shelter assembly points before the tornado hit. One worker even sent a photo: https://twitter.com/Csmith0515... [twitter.com]
At this time we don't know where the people were who were killed, except for one woman who was sheltering in a bathroom. Amazon did state in a news conference with the state that no one was killed in at least one of the two designated shelter areas. She and another woman had just brought their vans back in so it's possible they were hustled into there in
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I have already acknowledged that I was misled by some of the early reports, but I thank you for your additional information.
However, the bottom line is that some people were killed and we should study if their deaths could have been prevented.
For now I continue to regard Amazon's motivations as malicious. I'm fairly confident Amazon doesn't over-engineer their warehouse to increase their safety. I even suspect they probabilistically considered the costs of compliance with safety regulations against the cost
Re: Once again it takes multiple deaths before (Score:2)
bans smartphones, so his workers couldn't even be warned about the tornadoes.
Oh fuck off. You don't need a smartphone to get warned of a tornado, or a flood, or a fire. The lack of an adequate warning system is an issue but has nothing at all to do with your phone.
But more importantly, is that having a phone wouldn't have done them any good. What are you going to do, run outside and get killed by flying debris? The warehouse didn't have a tornado shelter and there wasn't one anywhere nearby.
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NAK
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OSHA investigates all workplace deaths. Says that in the article. And who said that nobody cares? What exactly should Amazon do that they aren't doing now? Should they build a machine that stops tornadoes from forming? I know they're big but are they capable of that?
Article was only written and shared because it was Amazon and not a convenient store. Sure this may result in some new engineering code requirements for the state, at best, but if you're hoping that these weren't up to existing code then you sho
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I think the article was written because Amazon has a history of exploiting warehouse workers (remember that they have to pee in bottles to avoid being fired for taking bathroom breaks), despite Amazon's owner being literally the richest man on the planet, even after losing a huge chunk of his wealth to his ex-wife.
Amazon has the resources and ability to provide safe and humane working conditions to its employees, but chooses not to, so that Jeff can take a joyride into space. He literally thanked Amazon wor
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Alright, so what could have Amazon done to make it safer? The building was likely built to code like any other regulated commercial building. It was also likely inspected by the city throughout the building process as well. You're actually alleging that the contractors who built it are shady, don't know what they're doing, and didn't do the job right. Like I said, it's only news because it's Amazon. They aren't responsible for "acts of god" unless you think they're gods.
Then you provide an example of Amazon
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I'm not suggesting anything about the building. I'm suggesting that Amazon knew that a tornado was approaching the area while their workers didn't, because Amazon does not allow cellphones in the warehouse. A policy which Amazon is now reviewing, because if the warehouse workers were allowed to keep their phones with them, they'd have received the tornado warning a lot earlier than when warehouse management alerted them to it, and could have taken better shelter.
If workers miss their quotas, they get fired.
Re: Once again it takes multiple deaths before (Score:2)
Except not all of what you're saying is true, and the false stuff is the bedrock of your argument. Specifically, Amazon does not and did not have a policy restricting cell phones. Since employees thought that they did and many of those carried them anyway. Furthermore, according to the workers, managers told them to take shelter immediately upon receiving the warning. That's the workers talking, not an Amazon spokesperson. At the time the tornado hit, everyone was already sheltering, so they had adequate wa
Re: Once again it takes multiple deaths before (Score:2)
Since=some. Stupid swipe
Re: Once again it takes multiple deaths before (Score:2)
What exactly should Amazon do that they aren't doing now? Should they build a machine that stops tornadoes from forming?
What if they could not do this, but could steer or divert it? I'm imagining the lawsuit from the locations it was diverted to.
Re:Once again it takes multiple deaths before (Score:5, Insightful)
Natural disasters do cause deaths, whether or not corporations followed reasonable safety procedures and codes. I don't know if Amazon is innocent or guilty, but neither do you. The investigation is just starting.
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Is your piss bottle engraved? Not allowing phones = not allowing 911 calls. That's fucking stupid by any metric.
I think the police were well aware that a tornado was in the area. /sarcasm
Nevertheless, it's been indicated that there was no policy banning cell phones. Perhaps that is not true. Still, I've also heard from the grapevine that they had an internal communication system. An article I read even talked about their internal communications leading up to the disaster, which included communications between warehouse locations. If that is the case, then they were not cut off. Before jumping to conclusions, it must
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Not allowing phones = not allowing 911 calls. That's fucking stupid by any metric.
No it's not. In fact quite the opposite. It's stupid allowing 911 calls at any facility. Any reasonable company will have an emergency response plan which involves you contacting security or an emergency centre and having them co-ordinate emergency response.
Attempting to dial straight to 911 yourself will *always* result in you getting a lower level of care, getting rescued slower due to confusion by arriving emergency services, and in many such cases not getting rescued at all.
It's common policy to not all
Candle factory too (Score:4, Interesting)
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That candle factory situation is super fucked up. I mean, everybody knows Amazon is a hell-hole, but candle factories? Everything I've heard about that was mismanagement from the top all the way down to the floor supes. Like, how much blatant corporate level douche-baggery do we need proof of before regulators start actually doing their jobs in the US again? Fuck sake.
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Like, how much blatant corporate level douche-baggery do we need proof of before regulators start actually doing their jobs in the US again? Fuck sake.
No amount is enough when the politicians are elected by spending money they get from these same blatant corporate level douchebags. If politicians got their money from the people instead, then we probably would never have been in the situation to begin with.
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Wouldn't it be nice if the people had any say in their governance in the states? We're at the point now where we really should just be electing corporations directly to office. Cut out the money sucking politicians altogether.
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We're at the point now where we really should just be electing corporations directly to office.
Just make politicians dress like race care drivers. They can wear a suit of sponsors based on money contributed every time they are photographed / videoed. The people sponsor logo is the little frowny face across their ass.
Re: Candle factory too (Score:2)
As a reminder, upon initial investigation Amazon appears to have done everything right, the candle factory did not.
Arguing that the system is messed-up because companies like Amazon corrupt the politicians and leaders makes no sense, since it was the candle factory that put workers lives in jeopardy, or are you railing against the corporate influence of Big Candle!
Re:Candle factory too (Score:5, Insightful)
Most manufacturing and low paying jobs are like this. But we can’t have worker protection laws or unions because that’s socialism. But for some strange reason the police unions are just fine. Not like those lazy steel or auto unions.
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There's nothing on the govt side preventing unions.
It is the PEOPLE that got rid of them and don't want them back.
You see spots here and there that bring unions in, but by and large, we don't want them here in the US.
They served their purpose....but there's no laws or governmental regs in the way of unions if people wanted them again.
You made all that up (Score:2)
It is the PEOPLE that got rid of them and don't want them back.
Right, corporate money played no role in eliminating an obstacle to profits. If you believe that private message me, I have a wonderful investment opportunity for you buying ocean front property in Arizona.
You see spots here and there that bring unions in, but by and large, we don't want them here in the US.
Complete and utter bullshit. Unions are quite popular in America and have been for ages. https://news.gallup.com/poll/3... [gallup.com]
They served their purpose....but there's no laws or governmental regs in the way of unions if people wanted them again.
Boy, you can quote party lines better than a Chinese communist. Apparently right-to-work laws dont exist on your planet..
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Right to work and at will employment are biting these guys in the ass. Your job wants you to wear a mask or get vaccinated? Well now they can fire you over it. Enjoy!
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Yep...I have no problem with that.
If a company wanted to force me to do something I didn't want to...I'd not want to work for them to begin with.
(speaking as someone that wanted to get vaccinated and boosted).
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Wait...
So you're saying a person should be forced by the government to join a union if they don't want to?P What happened to freedom of choice my friend?
I don't care if Bob or Mary wants to join a union, but I shouldn't be forced to do the same if either of them wants to.
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There all sorts of things you have to do to maintain a job. If you apply at a union shop joining said union is just one of a near infinite amount of other things you are "forced to do" at a job.
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I'm sorry, I just don't agree, that a person should have to pay money to an organization in order to work and earn a livelihood.
If a person wants to join a union, that's fine, but if you disagree and don't want to be represented by them, you should be free to still work...and this should not be govt enforced, just
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I'm sorry, I just don't agree, that a person should have to pay money to an organization in order to work and earn a livelihood.
Yeah, I've got a couple grand worth of very nice clothing slowly going out of style in a closet because of a job I once had that required me to wear "nice clothes" to work rather than a t-shirt. With my current employer letting me wear whatever I want to work I wear this stuff maybe once a year (I should really just stop being lazy and donate it all to be honest).
At least with union fees you have the possibility of getting things back like not having to piss in a bottle rather than take a proper break or no
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I have been reading some more on this. They were in a safe location but ordered back to work right before the factory was destroyed by the tornado. Yeah, there needs to be some people in jail after that.
Whoever made those calls need to serve some time.
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Whoever made those calls need to serve some time.
Kind of difficult if they died with the factory, taking it's business with them. One of the reasons why regulation is generally better than liability.
EU workers can't be fired for that or it's lot of (Score:2)
EU workers can't be fired for that or it's lot of paper work that the workplace will to process to fire someone in that case.
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The number deaths in the candle factory lead credence that proper safety precautions were not taken. This is what we need to focus on. Making sure that all workers are as protected as possible,
The amazon story is still in the headlines because it is clickbait, n
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See my comment further up. One of the Amazon employees texted his girlfriend saying they were not allowed to leave. He died in the collapse of the warehouse.
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This was different from the candle factory where workers wanted to leave between the first and s
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I was in a Wal-Mart when they called a "code black" (which is a tornado on the ground, I don't know at what range). I later saw phone video taken from outside and the tornado suddenly seemed to lift off the ground maybe 100 yards before hitting the building. It stayed off the ground for some time, and (well out of range of that video) proceeded to wipe out half a suburb when it touched down again.
But there were people demanding they be allowed to leave, and I got in between them and the employees and said "
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On the one hand, the Candle Factory keeping the employees in the factory was the right move. The last thing you want is people rolling around in their cars getting in traffic jams when an EF3+ mile wide tornado is heading your way at night.
On the other hand, The factory is in an area known for EF3+ mile wide tornadoes. You better have a solid emergency plan and structure to protect your employees in case the storm of the century hits your facility. Either Amazon and the Candle Factory didn't have such plans
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On the one hand, the Candle Factory keeping the employees in the factory was the right move. The last thing you want is people rolling around in their cars getting in traffic jams when an EF3+ mile wide tornado is heading your way at night.
The workers in the candle factory wanted to leave between the tornado warnings, after the first one was passed and before the second one hit. There was a significant amount of time between the events and it would have been reasonable to allow them to leave. Threatening them (as they state, management says they didn't) with firing if they left was complete BS.
Either Amazon and the Candle Factory didn't have such plans or structures, ignored the plans, or the plans and structures they had were inadequate for the scenario at hand.
I live near the Amazon facility so it's been all over the news and in the local papers. Amazon did have a plan and they implemented it. What we don'
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Re: Candle factory too (Score:2)
I try to keep the number of life threatening events with a %1 chance to a minimum. I imagine those who accept those odds end up dead way more often than me.
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It may or may not be their fault. I suspect not, because tornadoes can form and move quite quickly, and, sometimes unexpectedly. They also can take turns that are hard to anticipate.
Where I live, NWS warnings are often less than accurate. However, they are still an awful lot better than nothing at all. I am grateful for them.
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And they probably will, once the chaos of the fact that a hurricane blew through the towns has settled down and the current humanitarian crisis is over. I don't think it'
Ok, but just one thing.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Do your safety review after you deliver my purchases.
Deliver my shit at all costs. At all fucking costs.
If my packages is late, there had better be multiple fatalities involved. And not an investigation into fatalities. People literally need to have died while trying to deliver my package.
You should probably give me a voucher, maybe take it out of the dead employee's paycheck.
Re:Ok, but just one thing.... (Score:4, Insightful)
This is an excellent commentary on why this sort of thing happens and will continue to happen. People will continue buying from Amazon, and they will demand immediate delivery regardless of the cost so long as it doesn't affect *them*. It enables and encourages this exact outcome. Too few people truly want to hold a company accountable for actual criminal behavior, but they will raise hell like you would not believe if that same company inconveniences them personally in even the slightest manner.
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As I have said many times before, if you're upset with how Amazon does its business or treats its employees, stoy buying from them. It's that simple.
Except everytime I say this, someone will always pipe up at how this is impossible because . . . reasons. And yet here I am, not buying from Amazon every single day.
It's almost as if people would rather talk the talk than walk the walk.
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What has Amazon done that is criminal behavior?
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I guess I should have realized there would be *some* reason that calling Amazon criminal [wiktionary.org] would get someone's knickers twisted, since
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Well, accusation of criminal acts usually comes with criminal charges which is a big deal.
It is important in these type cases to use the correct terminology, as that it has real consequences.
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The real issue with slashdot (and a lot of social media) is the up/down votes isn't an I "agree/disagree" button.
You're probably the same guy that down voted videos of Derek Chauvin kneeling on George Floyd because you 'disagree with kneeling on suspects'.
I can't tell if you just didn't think that analogy through, or you don't understand your own point. Either way, I was saying the post shouldn't be modded down because it makes the point very well, and I'm pretty sure the people who were doing so were crying 'troll' a little too quickly. I certainly didn't think they were modding down because they disagree with the point being made, and actually *do* believe Amazon should kill off workers in the name of getting their PS5 to them in time for Christmas.
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You got me to look at a troll. Congratulations. NOT.
No name, no read. That's my preferred policy.
Especially inexplicable in this case. The AC was clearly going for Funny. If some hard-working moderators had agreed it was Funny, then it could have been moderated into visibility, even for AC disdainers like yours truly.
Really? What part of that offended the sock puppets?
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Do you accept that thermodynamics is an actual feature of our universe?
Corporate manslaughter (Score:3)
Corporate manslaughter needs to be a thing that puts company officers in prison, but will never happen.
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I agree.
I am still disappointed with the situation where the Sackler Family gets immunity after they pretty much drained the corporate coffers from Perdue Pharma.
Sackler, "Alright guys, we drained every ounce of wealth out of this bad boy, let's turn it over and laugh while the mob tries to pick what little meet is left on the bones.
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The investigation is just now beginning, and you've already tried and convicted Amazon of corporate manslaughter? How about some facts first! Maybe Amazon should be liable, I don't know. But that's the point, we don't know yet.
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I've done no such thing, your lack of reading comprehension is your problem not mine.
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Cite? I have not seen any such "admission", but haven't been following the situation closely.
Note that if Amazon said "Per our safety protocol we directed employees to designated shelter locations within the distribution center" and you think they "should" have told employees to leave and drive home is not Amazon "admitting" that they "coerced" their workers against taking "proper" shelter from the st
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Absolutely, there is a prima facie case to be answer. It is simple common sense that the fiduciary responsibility of company officers should include criminal liability.
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It's less productive than arguing with a honking goose. You can end the argument with a honking goose by killing, cooking, and feasting on it. Rumor is that progressives don't taste very good and most are much too big to fit in even the largest common residential oven.
Re:Corporate manslaughter (Score:5, Funny)
Like the old saying goes, I’ll believe corporations are people as soon as Texas executes one.
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Most corporate executions are done by the free market and such executions are quite common.
Let's wait for investigation findings (Score:3)
It's pretty hard to build anything aboveground that will reliably stand up to a tornado and they only had about 20 minutes from a warning till tornado hit to safeguard a large number of people in a huge building. If some scumbags knowingly/foreseeable endangered people, throw them in jail. But I am not ready to make this conclusion just yet.
I was seeing stories for days (Score:2)
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Exactly. There were notices a day or two before that dangerous weather was expected, then a warning that there was an actual tornado on the ground. While watches don't always amount to anything, warnings should never be ignored.
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The managers at the candle factory who told their employees to quit sheltering in place and get to work.
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The question is whether they were safer staying there or taking their chances out on the roads. That's not an entirely straightforward question. Early on, clearly they were, but that would be a very expensive shutdown. Later on, they clearly weren't. There's a point in the middle when a decision should have been made, but wasn't. The same is likely true for the candle factory.
That said, I was up in Mayfield over the weekend, and the TV coverage doesn't do it justice — homes that are simply gone
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No, the question is were they safer huddled in the safest parts of the building or out standing on the floor with all the flying debris.
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Were they spread out over the entire building? From what I've heard, almost everybody at the candle factory was found in one of a couple of "safe" areas. Unfortunately, those areas weren't particularly safe.
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A worker at the former candle factory alleges that they were ordered back to work on pain of termination.
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I saw some reports that they were not allowed to go home, but nothing that says that they were ordered to leave the emergency shelter areas. Sounds unlikely to me.
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I have no idea how frequent and specific these warnings are in the area. If it's once a year, sure some businesses can shut down. If once a week and they can't pinpoint the area, everyone got to keep living. In terms of actual 20 minute warning before tornado, I would have probably managed to get to a home shelter in time. In a wearhouse with lots of distance to cover and people who might not initially notice/heed the warning, who knows? That's why I will wait for someone experienced to assign responsibilit
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I have worked in industrial buildings that were built during WWII. That is a whole other experience. The entire plant had a bomb shelter below it. However, that requirement disappeared with the end of the war.
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It's pretty hard to build anything aboveground that will reliably stand up to a tornado
You're right. Which is why many places have dedicated reinforced or subterranean muster stations for this kind of thing. The fact that a big storm took out the building is no excuse for the loss of life. This storm didn't break any records and the building isn't built somewhere where tornadoes are rare.
But I am not ready to make this conclusion just yet.
Conclusion: Amazon fucked up. What I'm not sure about is precisely in which way and to what extent.
Unions helped make workplaces safe amazon needs th (Score:2)
Unions helped make workplaces safe amazon needs them.
To get things like an storm shelter area that workers can use OFF RATE and ON CLOCK.
Cell phones or other devices to get alerts
Good lawyer to fight for workers comp payouts
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To get things like an storm shelter area that workers can use OFF RATE and ON CLOCK.
You don't need Unions for that, you need OSHA.
Cell phones or other devices to get alerts
You don't need unions for that, you need OSHA.
Good lawyer to fight for workers comp payouts
You don't need unions for that, you need employee protection la... oh wait this is the USA. Yeah you'll need unions for that one.
Ain't nothin gonna happen (Score:2)
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Have you ever dealt with OSHA?
I have. Cal-OSHA specifically. They have teeth, and they're not afraid to use them. Few Agencies have the power of the IRS and also look out for the worker like OSHA.
In my experiences, the inspectors and/or investigators tend to be pretty smart and generally harder on employers who don't seek to "partner up". Employers who stonewall or deny don't get much forgiveness...
Witchhunt (Score:2)
Yet another witchhunt. Are they investigating the candle factory that also collapsed? Right.
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"We were always at war with oceania"
Glad to see the classics are still remembered.
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Isn't this standard procedure anytime there is an accident related death in a workplace?
Yes. Either by Fed OSHA or by a state-run program if there is one (Cal OSHA, for example). All workplace fatalities are investigated if it is shown that the agency has jurisdiction and it is reasonable to believe that the fatality (or serious injury) is work-related. An example where OSHA might not have jurisdiction would be a traffic accident and an example of a non work-related fatality occurring at a workplace might be a personal medical issue, such as a heart attack.
In this case, OSHA probably wouldn