US Surpasses 800,000 COVID-19 Deaths (bbc.com) 180
gollum123 shares a report from the BBC: More than 800,000 Americans have now died from the coronavirus, the highest recorded national death toll from the global pandemic. It comes as the US reached 50 million confirmed cases of Covid-19 on Monday. Most deaths have been recorded among the unvaccinated and the elderly, and more Americans died in 2021 than in 2020. The 800,000 total exceeds the populations of cities such as Boston or Washington DC. The milestone means nearly twice as many Americans have died during the pandemic as in World War 2. The last 100,000 deaths came in just the past 11 weeks, a quicker pace than any at other point aside from last winter's surge.
not died from, died with (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:not died from, died with (Score:5, Interesting)
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/... [cdc.gov]
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The air around us, well, maybe aside of downtown New York during rush hour, contains about 21% O2. A breath of air that leaves you contains about 15% O2. So even inhaling what someone else just exhaled will contain sufficient O2 to keep you going.
Else mouth-to-mouth wouldn't exactly make a lot of sense, would it?
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The air around us, well, maybe aside of downtown New York during rush hour, contains about 21% O2. A breath of air that leaves you contains about 15% O2. So even inhaling what someone else just exhaled will contain sufficient O2 to keep you going.
Else mouth-to-mouth wouldn't exactly make a lot of sense, would it?
Turns out mouth to mouth has been abandoned for chest compressions, so in the end, it didn't make much sense. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... [nih.gov]
Re:not died from, died with (Score:5, Insightful)
Look at the reported death rate from 2019, then compare to 2020 and 2021. There's a big bump that stands out, and any amount of handwaving of "they were old and feeble and would have died anyway" doesn't hold water.
Re:not died from, died with (Score:4, Insightful)
Because of course the banning of "elective"(read things that won't kill you in the next week) surgeries and lockdowns drastically changing peoples mental state and thus susceptibility to disease, drug abuse, and suicide would have had ZERO effect on the death toll.
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I'm just pushing back against the incorrect notion that covid-19 is not serious and all the stats are bogus and should be ignored. It's a real thing, real people have died of all ages, and it's not just like the flu. If that's not your stance then ok, but there are too many here on slashdot who've bought into the idea that it's a hoax. If CDC has numbers, I trust them more than any armchair slashdot epidemiologist to get the numbers right and to not throw politics into it.
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Like many lay people who do not know much about medicine, you may be labouring under the misapprehension that flu is not a deadly disease. It can be.
The 1967-8 and 1967-8 flu epidemics each killed over 100,000 people in the USA alone.
The popular image of flu is of a really bad cold, plus sickness, headache and perhaps fever, that keeps one at home for a week or two. Whereas the popular image of Covid-19 is of a deadly plague that cuts people down at all ages. In fact there is much less difference between th
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Flu practically disappeared worldwide in 2020 and 2021. The official explanation is that this was due to all the precautions taken against Covid-19. Apparently handwashing, masks and social distancing were enough to reduce flu to noise level - but had hardly any impact on Covid-19 because it is so very much more infectious and deadly!
There is another, much more obvious and logical explanation.
Well don't leave us hanging.
What did QAnon tell you the reason was?
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Suicides have dropped. But that doesn't matter because you've clearly already decided your own personal truth regardless of data.
Re:not died from, died with (Score:5, Informative)
Except there causes of death you describe are well documented and have not increased. People who died in hospital "with" or "from" covid exhibited respiratory symptoms, definitely not suicide or drug abuse. Also, we know for a fact there has not been increase in suicides, to the contrary they even slightly decreased (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ajp.2021.102695/ [doi.org]). Drug supplies have been reduced sue to travelling restrictions and prices increased (https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/06/1066992/ [un.org]) and the drug that increased was cannabis (https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/06/1094672/ [un.org]), which is not known to cause deaths.
Lockdowns caused a 40% reduction in traffic fatalities (https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-provisional-results-2020/the-impact-of-lockdown-on-reported-road-casualties-great-britain-provisional-results-2020/ [www.gov.uk]) and 50% reduction in sports accidents (https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-020-80309-x/ [doi.org]) and obviously suppressed work accidents.
Reduction in diagnosis of cancer and HIV are a big concern for next years, but have likely not caused increased deaths this year as these diseases evolve slowly.
If anything, lockdowns biased the statistics towards lower mortality. The fact that we did observed excess death in a lockdown situation (with same or fewer suicides than before), is evidence that something, let's call it a virus, has been killing us.
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If anything, lockdowns biased the statistics towards lower mortality. The fact that we did observed excess death in a lockdown situation (with same or fewer suicides than before), is evidence that something, let's call it a virus, has been killing us.
I'm not saying it's aliens...
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I wonder how the pandemic has affected medical related bankruptcies.
Someone posted a bill for intubation and 60 days in ICU due to COVID on Twitter. $3.4 million.
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Judging from reading the average posting on The Herman Cain Awards [reddit.com] the progression is like this:
Posting anti-vax memes
Grandstanding
Reporting about hospitalization
Asking for prayers
Posting the GoFundMe page to pay for cremation
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He's dead and you still need to bash him. What is wrong with you?
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He's dead and you still need to bash him. What is wrong with you?
Wrong? This is education. Shortly before Cain came down with Covid, there is a photo of him at a Trump Rally, smiling, proud, socially close, maskless.
Shortly after? He ded. It's like safe sex. It's like wearing seat belts or motorcycle helmets. There were so many simple precautions he could have taken. He defiantly took none, and like I said, he ded.
Sometimes the purpose of a person's life is to serve as a warning to others.
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Because of course the banning of "elective"(read things that won't kill you in the next week) surgeries and lockdowns drastically changing peoples mental state and thus susceptibility to disease, drug abuse, and suicide would have had ZERO effect on the death toll.
I think the technical term is collateral damage, and yes it is real, but it is a small fraction of the casualties of war.
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Talk for yourself, my mood and general well being went way UP in 2020.
Best year of my life.
Big thanks to all the anti-vax loonies that keep the ball rolling. Thanks for adding to my comfort, your sacrifice was not in vain.
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Talk for yourself, my mood and general well being went way UP in 2020.
Best year of my life.
Big thanks to all the anti-vax loonies that keep the ball rolling. Thanks for adding to my comfort, your sacrifice was not in vain.
I surely lost any and all sympathy for them. At first it was like "Come on! The test period showed that the vaccines are safe - certainly safer than dying from it".
Then it was "Seriously - taking malaria meds for a viral infection? Sigh.." Then it was "cattle dewormer and gargling with Betadine? And pointing to a retracted pseudo study that showed Toxic levels of Ivermectin slowed the reproduction of the virus. Yeah, sodium hypochlorite does a number on it too.
Finally, I came to the realization that th
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Look at the reported death rate from 2019, then compare to 2020 and 2021. There's a big bump that stands out, and any amount of handwaving of "they were old and feeble and would have died anyway" doesn't hold water.
I just lost a good friend this past weekend. He was mid 50's robust and fit.
He thought his good health and condition was all he needed to have Covid just be a case of the sniffles. No vaccines for this guy. And masks were fro cowards and didn't work anyhow.
I guess the golden lining was he only lasted a week in the hospital, so it wasn't too much torture. Leaves behind friends and family wrestling with the dual condition of sadness and deep anger for wasting his life that way.
I think the latest surge i
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No. Those who died "with" are broken out by the CDC and are not part of the 822k counted as dead due to covid.
These are people who had car accidents, heart attacks, and other reasons to go to the hospital and then were found to *also* have covid when tested on admission.
It's easy to find the data in one of the various CDC "weekly mortality reports" that broke out the numbers.
Not that you probably ever looked.
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Not that you probably ever looked.
Indeed. Covidiots are the type of idiot that is so convinced they have absolute truth that they eliminate every possibility of ever finding out they could be wrong. These people do not look at data or facts, except for that carefully filtered tiny fraction that can be misinterpreted to say they are right.
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Am I saying it rite?
Ah, those in denial. Always sticking to their fantasies to the very end. Got to admire the stubbornness.
Down here in the real world, this is an _underestimation_ of the number that died _from_ COVID. The excess mortality numbers are very clear.
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No you are not.
Died with and died by are published separate.
What else would be the point in having two metrics?
Comparing to 1918 flu (Score:5, Informative)
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So it isn't really clear how well to make a direct comparison.
Both killed a lot of people, and both are many times more deadly than the typical seasonal flu virus.
Re:Comparing to 1918 flu (Score:5, Informative)
The 1918 flu is also not yet over. Variants have killed tens of thousands of people per year, every year, ever since.
https://www.history.com/news/1... [history.com]
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The 1918 flu is also not yet over. Variants have killed tens of thousands of people per year, every year, ever since.
https://www.history.com/news/1... [history.com]
The thing about the 1918 Flu is that since then, we've had far worse variants of the virus that have cause far fewer deaths. This is because of two major reasons, the 1918 pandemic coincided with a famine, malnutrition was rife. Also we didn't know to isolate patients and protect staff with protective equipment. Infected people were stacked in like cordwood with those who hadn't contracted the virus, bedding was not cleaned when patients were moved, things like that.
Avian flu was a far deadlier virus, bu
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Just make sure you leave enough money to your relatives that they don't have to turn to GoFundMe to pay for your funeral, ok? It's so disgusting that people waste all their money on trying to keep themselves alive that they don't even leave enough to get rid of the trash.
Re:Comparing to 1918 flu (Score:5, Insightful)
In 1918 they didn't have
Just sayin'
Re:Comparing to 1918 flu (Score:5, Insightful)
We only have most of that list as long as covid cases remain under a certain number.
That's a large reason behind experts push for masking orders, social distancing, etc - keeping the intensive care, forced ventilation, and medical experts from being overwhelmed.
If we hit the point where we're at medical capacity, we're basically back to the 1910s for care for the remaining cases.
What should scare thinking Americans is that as far as pandemics go, covid was manageable with the knowledge we had, and we still horribly dropped the ball.
What happens when we have a virus that's far better at spreading, where most cases are severe, and we still have the anti-mask/anti-vax crowd?
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Not to mention that once the ICUs hit full capacity it's not only Covid patients that are screwed, it's everyone else as well. Strokes, traffic accidents, all those other things you end up in the ICU over - if there are no beds left then there are no beds left.
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So it isn't really clear how well to make a direct comparison.
From pandemic to endemic?
Re:Comparing to 1918 flu (Score:5, Insightful)
I like that you mention the differences in medical care because anti-vaxers always forget that today's medicine is just a bit better than in 1918.
- 1918 Flu - 675k of the 103M people (1918 US population) is huge-- 0.655% of the entire population.
- COVID-19 - 800k of the 333M people (2021 US population) isn't as big (0.24% of the entire population), but we also have today's medical system. From diagnostics like x-rays, blood-oxygen monitoring, and viral testing to actual treatments like monoclonal antibodies and intubation. We're way WAY more likely to find, isolate, and treat the infected.
Were we to have provided exactly the same level of medical care that people received in 1918, we would have seen millions dead in the US by now. And, to be honest, we're "running out" of medical care. The people are burned out. (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/19/us-faces-nurse-shortage-burnout-covid).
My guess is that we'll hit a million dead from COVID-19 by Spring 2022.
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Also the little benefit of not being at war in Europe.
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But they also didn't have Facebook, Youtube and Fox News in 1918.
Re: Comparing to 1918 flu (Score:3, Funny)
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Yes, that stuff takes some burden off our ICUs.
Dead people don't waste ICU resources.
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Nor the proven benefits of Ivermectin.
Or Betadine Gargle
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So it isn't really clear how well to make a direct comparison
Similarly the comparison with World War II, meant to evoke memories of one of the most horrific death tolls in history, is deceptive since the U.S. barely participated in that. I'd like to see them compare Russian COVID deaths vs Russian WWII deaths.
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Similarly the comparison with World War II, meant to evoke memories of one of the most horrific death tolls in history, is deceptive since the U.S. barely participated in that. I'd like to see them compare Russian COVID deaths vs Russian WWII deaths.
Both he US and the Germans are much better than the Russians in that regard. Not sure what your point is though.
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Yes, the life-saving intervention is to blame, not the disease that was about to suffocate you... Ugh...
Honestly, you conspiracy nuts will believe anything but the truth.
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Yes, the life-saving intervention is to blame, not the disease that was about to suffocate you... Ugh...
Honestly, you conspiracy nuts will believe anything but the truth.
This is correct. There are certain people who through a combination of ignorance, paranoia, and contrariness will almost always reject the truth for something some random person tells them.
While I suspect most are below average IQ, there are a surprising number of otherwise intelligent people, https://nypost.com/2020/09/07/... [nypost.com] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news... [msn.com]
Well, I'm certain that as really smart people, they accepted their death as the price they were willing to pay.
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Yes, but the alternative is to just die. I'd prefer a 50% chance of survival to a 100% chance of death.
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But I absolutely support your choice of not wasting a ventilator on yourself. Make sure you get it in writing that they MUST NOT put you on a ventilator, and carry that card with you all the time!
The real question (Score:5, Insightful)
We should be asking is after vaccines became readily available, how many [go.com] people died [nbcnews.com] because they [al.com] refused to [businessinsider.com] get vaccinated [businessinsider.com]?
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Ah the infamous Herman Cain award.
Re: The real question (Score:5, Insightful)
racism and schadenfreude are both two the basest and vile expressions of human darkness
Well, racism can have pretty awful expression, so I'll give you that one. How can you think that laughing at something even compares with, for example, deliberately going out to trick people into avoiding a vaccination that could save their life. Imagine telling people that vaccines are dangerous and leading to someone dying after weeks hallucinating terrors on a ventilator. Methinks you doth protest too much.
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racism and schadenfreude are both two the basest and vile expressions of human darkness
Well, racism can have pretty awful expression, so I'll give you that one. How can you think that laughing at something even compares with, for example, deliberately going out to trick people into avoiding a vaccination that could save their life. Imagine telling people that vaccines are dangerous and leading to someone dying after weeks hallucinating terrors on a ventilator. Methinks you doth protest too much.
I agree these terms are nothing alike.
I'm yet to think of a situation where racism is appropriate... but schadenfreude falls into the dark humour category.
The word "schadenfreude" means "shameful joy" at the best translation. It's something we know we should feel bad about, yet the situation invokes some humour. Finding out that someone who was a rabid anit-vaxxer has died of COVID is something that one should feel a little sad about (no-one should really revel in the death of others) but also can sm
Re:Pretty racist (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, the vaccination rate for African-Americans is quite similar to the rate for whites.
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Actually, the vaccination rate for African-Americans is quite similar to the rate for whites.
I ended up looking it up, and yes, the rates are similar.
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Actually, the vaccination rate for African-Americans is quite similar to the rate for whites.
In quite a few states [kff.org] the black (and hispanic) vaccination rate significantly trails white (who in turn vastly trail asians). I count a number of states with a greater than 10% spread.
So let's base our statements on real-world data and not your personal beliefs about what has to be so because you don't want to be "racist".
I'll let you have the last response since you'll just continue your posts from fantasy land.
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It may be now but it was lower for a long time.
The shadow of horrific medical experiments on black u.s. citizens is a very long one and the distrust runs pretty deep.
Yes, it was pretty horrifying, and some level of distrust could even be healthy
But it takes some pretty conspiratorial thinking that there was one vaccine for people of African origin, and another for the "white folk"
What is also horrifying is how Covid hit the black community. So intelligence prevailed, and the vaccination rate evened out.
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How long is it, exactly? Other than the Tuskegee thing, which barely qualifies as experimentation, what other examples are there?
The Tuskegee scandal was a study, rather than experimentation, of allowing syphilis to remain untreated in black men. Then analyzing the results, which were pretty much known anyhow. Sounds like you approve of the "Tuskegee thing", or at least thing it was a nothingberder. Despite all that, it was maximally unethical https://www.history.com/news/t... [history.com]
Horrifying AF. What do you think off that little "thing"? There are more if you care to look it up.
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Can you cite some sources for these purported cures, please?
He obviously can't.
The very idea is incoherent. Why would Biden withhold a cure to encourage vaccination? Why does he think that would work? Where would he get that power anyway? It's just more absurd conspiracy nonsense from the autodidacts.
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Here let me help you with that...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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All the best sources come in long rambling youtube videos!
Biden to step down (Score:2, Insightful)
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The difference was, Trump was largely responsible for thousands and thousands of deaths because of his downplay of the pandemic, pushing quack treatments and being an all-around dumbass about the entire thing.
Whereas Biden you know... is actually putting things in place to try and prevent more deaths.
Something to think about.
whoever voted that insightful is dumb (Score:2)
Sympathy is getting harder (Score:2)
This is horrible to say and feel, but it's true - I'm just out of sympathy for the unvaccinated who catch and die from (with) COVID. Vaccines have been widely available in the US for almost a year, and most other developed countries for at least six months. This is one giant, un-funny Darwin Award playing out here, and it's a tragedy for all involved.
Re: Obesity (Score:2, Funny)
Re: Obesity (Score:5, Informative)
I wonder what percentage of the deaths were for people under 75 without any co-morbidities?
Here you go [cdc.gov]. You'll note obesity is third but had the strongest risk factor.
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Re: Obesity (Score:2)
Re: Obesity (Score:2)
Maybe maybe not, anxiety and depression are sequelae of Covid-19 so itâ(TM)s possible the suicide was due to a sars infection. Likewise alcohol could have been consumed to reduce anxiety.
Iâ(TM)ll allow it.
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Most telling would be the excess deaths.
"Drunk-Drivers who were asymptomatic" also isn't a significant number
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I wonder what percentage of the deaths were for people under 75 without any co-morbidities?
It's not the right question really - the real question you should be asking is "what greater proportion of co-morbidities than the general population they have?" - because there can be many many people who have "co-morbidities" without realising it till someone checks their heart when they are dying. If 80% of the population is defined as having a co-morbidity (fat / asthma / some heart, lung or kidney problem / smokes / has lung damage etc.etc.) then it's not really a useful thing to tell people that "oh
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A whopping 1.65 / 2.2 (female/male ) years decreased life expectancy in the US.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/r... [forbes.com]
What goes around comes around (Score:2, Insightful)
In 2000, when Mr Putin became President, Russians had a life expectancy of 65.5 years. That was due to the 8 years of following Western (mainly US) "advice" - wildfire "privatisation" (or as Michael Hudson more aptly puts it, "grabitization") reducing tens of millions to grinding poverty.
Today Russian life expectancy has recovered dramatically to nearly 74 years (78 for women, 68 for men).
As analysts such as Dmitry Orlov and The Saker have observed, the USA today is undergoing very similar changes to Russia
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Slashdot is posting straight Russian propaganda now? Pathetic...
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If you wish to label truth "Russian propaganda", you will become very confused indeed.
Re: What goes around comes around (Score:2)
US death rate (Score:2)
The US death rate fell steadily until 2008; since then it has consistently risen. This is so, even though the table on the following page has this prominent notice:
NOTE: All 2020 and later data are UN projections and DO NOT include any impacts of the COVID-19 virus.
https://www.macrotrends.net/co... [macrotrends.net]
The UN expected the US death rate to continue rising through 2020 and 2021 before anyone had heard of Covid-19.
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I wonder what percentage of the deaths were for people under 75 without any co-morbidities?
In a country where over 42% are clinically obese and over half are diabetic or prediabetic from all the sugar they eat? It's hard to find any.
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/da... [cdc.gov]
https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/d... [cdc.gov]
Re: Obesity (Score:3)
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Using VAERS data to estimate deaths from the vaccines is extremely dishonest.
The only thing that VAERS says is that a death occurred after a vaccination. It DOES NOT say that the death occurred BECAUSE of being vaccinated.
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1. Exactly the same argument applies to alleged deaths "with" Covid-19, or "from" Covid-19. They are defined as deaths after a positive PCR result - the PCR procedure whose inventor, the Nobel Prize winner Dr Kary Mullis, categorically stated that it could never be used to diagnose disease.
2. Unless many people are being given the injections who are at death's door, it seems odd that they should be sying in such large numbers. Especially fit young athletes and children.
3. Many studies have already demonstra
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I like your use of "vaccines" to denote your lack of knowledge on what these things are.
On the contrary, I used the scare quotes to indicate that I DO know what they are - not vaccines. A vaccine introduces into the body a very small amount of a substance which the immune system considers foreign and dangerous, and against which the immune system sets up defences.
The mRNA injections introduce into the body mRNA which sets every cell into which it enters manufacturing spike protein continually, with no way of stopping the process. It is obviously dangerous to make the body create large amounts
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How can you post such an obvious lie on the Internet and not know how easy it is to find the real number on the Internet?
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Still, Japan has about 1/20th the death rate per head of population compared to the UK. That figure is likely to get worse (for the UK) as Omicron hits. However you measure it, they did very well on that front.
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That figure is likely to get worse (for the UK) as Omicron hits.
Seeing how the world wide death rate from Omicron is currently at one, I kind of doubt it.
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That figure is likely to get worse (for the UK) as Omicron hits.
Seeing how the world wide death rate from Omicron is currently at one, I kind of doubt it.
I think that our medical system has become so adept at analyzing vaccines that they will continue to find more and more variants. The very nature of influenza viruses and their reproduction process lends itself to mutations.
Sometimes the variant becomes less virulent, in fact the common cold is thought to be pandemic virus from the 1800's. Sometimes the virus mutates into a more deadly form that is much harder to infect others with - those tend to die out. The Coronvirus of 2019 is actually not as virule
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If it worked that well, do you think the medical establishment wouldn't jump on it? Do you really think medical professionals are that corrupt/insane/blind? I think the sad truth is that IVM actually doesn't work, but it's too good a story that "there's no money in it for THE MAN," so a lot of people are persuaded to try it alongside (or worse, instead of) the vaccinations and mask-wearing that actually help. What a shit show!
Re:Massive Ivermectin study = 45% reduction in dea (Score:5, Informative)
Not peer reviewed. They may be claiming anything in there and the likes of you would certainly not notice, because it seems to support your misconceptions.
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This early treatment preprint is rather amazing
Not peer reviewed. They may be claiming anything in there and the likes of you would certainly not notice, because it seems to support your misconceptions.
This is redundant. I disclosed up front it is not yet peer reviewed. Repeating what I already said adds nothing to the conversation.
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This early treatment preprint is rather amazing
Not peer reviewed. They may be claiming anything in there and the likes of you would certainly not notice, because it seems to support your misconceptions.
This is redundant. I disclosed up front it is not yet peer reviewed. Repeating what I already said adds nothing to the conversation.
Since you apparently do not understand what "not peer reviewed" means, my comment is not redundant.
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Other studies have shown it to have no effect
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Other studies have shown it to have no effect
Can you cite any comparable studies having done so? This is an early treatment study comprising of over 220k people.
I am aware of null results from TOGETHER trial. While we await the paper this was a late stage study not early treatment. There are numerous accepted treatments (monoclonal antibodies, paxlovid, molnupiravir) that don't do much of anything after the viral phase is mostly over and damage is already done.
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Yeah - that's how diseases that come and go in waves work. It's how every pandemic has worked - that the first waves kill fewer people and later waves kill more.
But sure - you let Fox News continue to tell you what and who to fear.
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Look at this graph https://ourworldindata.org/gra... [ourworldindata.org]
The origin of the data is given in the "Sources" tab.
Be aware that the vertical axis starts at 50,000.This is a normal practice in scientific papers to make the data more readable (because nobody cares about the empty bottom of the graph).
The peaks of the 3 main waves are clearly visible:
- 12 Apr 2020 : 79k vs expected 56k so +40%
- 30 Aug 2020 : 71k vs expected 52k so +36%
- 12 Jan 2021 : 87k vs expected 63k so +38%
Similar graphs for Europe can be found in
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If true, this means that one could literally die as a result of the covid jab and be considered unvaccinated in the numbers.
If someone caught covid and died before the vaccination was fully effective then they should be considered unvaccinated. The vaccine wouldn't cause them to show as positive for covid (nor does it carry any significant risk of death)
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The center of the COVID pandemic in the US remains the northern Midwest (MI, MN) and the Northeast (CT, RI, DC, ME, NJ, MA). Special note is made about Maryland...who isn't reporting data right now. ... I wonder why the news media aren't breathlessly reporting this localization like they did when the spike rolled through Florida.
Hmmm
STate, governor:
MI D
MN D
CT D
DC D (Mayor)
ME D
NJ D
MA R
FL R
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Because this one is clearly a seasonal wave involving the variants while FL was the result of low vaccinations and poor policy
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He's not even governor anymore...
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He's not even governor anymore...
Hey - those folks are still pissed off about FDR.
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I know you're trolling, but I'm going to engage anyways.
"Responsible for" is the key phrase here.
There's a huge difference in responsibility between a serial liar & covid denier and a leader who has pleaded repeatedly with the population to take advantage of life-saving vaccines.
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