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Earth

Ground Temperatures Hit 129F as Argentina Suffers Blackouts (gizmodo.com) 73

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
Ground temperatures climbed above 129 degrees Fahrenheit (54 degrees Celsius) in parts of Argentina this week as the country suffers through a shockingly hot start to summer. Air temperatures were equally suffocating, leading to widespread blackouts as the Southern Cone attempts to beat the heat. From a report: Copernicus's Sentinel 3 satellite recorded the extreme ground temperatures. Those temperatures are different than air temperatures, which is our usual way of conveying how hot a place is. The surface of the Earth tend to be hotter than air temperatures, given that heat can more easily dissipate in the air. But air temperatures are still pretty unbearable in Argentina. On Tuesday, temperatures rose to 106.7 degrees Fahrenheit (41.5 degrees Celsius) in Buenos Aires, the second-highest reading in the city in more than 100 years of records. Other parts of the country saw temperatures as high as 113 degrees Fahrenheit (45 degrees Celsius). The heat was so bad in Argentina on Tuesday that it was briefly the hottest place in the world, surpassing parts of Australia that usually have that honor during austral summer. "This is a heat wave of extraordinary characteristics, with extreme temperature values ââthat will even be analyzed after its completion, and it may generate some historical records for Argentina temperatures and persistence of heat," meteorologist Lucas Berengua told Reuters.
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Ground Temperatures Hit 129F as Argentina Suffers Blackouts More

Ground Temperatures Hit 129F as Argentina Suffers Blackouts

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  • Sure (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Thursday January 13, 2022 @05:06PM (#62170787)

    Totally normal patterns. https://xkcd.com/1732/ [xkcd.com]

    • Re:Sure (Score:5, Insightful)

      by spun ( 1352 ) <loverevolutionary@@@yahoo...com> on Thursday January 13, 2022 @05:24PM (#62170829) Journal

      Some people would rather fuck the Earth and everything on it than admit they are wrong, and someone they despise was right.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by vyvepe ( 809573 )
      That chart does not go long enough into history. Here is better one: https://upload.wikimedia.org/w... [wikimedia.org]
      • Long enough for what? Evaluating the prospects of a comeback by dinosaurs?

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by vyvepe ( 809573 )

          Long enough to asses whether it endangers life.

          The problem of xkcd chart is that it selected the lowest ever temperature which existed on earth in the last 5e8 years and took it as the starting point. Then it looks like earth is getting only more and more hot all the time and it was never hotter.

          Notice, I'm not claiming we should not try to prevent climate change. I'm only saying that xkcd chart is cherry picked to push the message. The best chart would be one which would go 4e9 years into the past. That wo

          • Look at the centre of the chart, that is given as the starting point. That's where we are comfortable and don't lose arable land to sea or ice. You're the one cherry picking and ascertaining something that simply is true.
          • Humans are selfish. It doesn't matter than the global temperature won't go up enough to destroy all life on Earth. We only care that the global temperature will go up enough to make humans' lives suck.

          • The best chart would be one which would go 4e9 years into the past. That would give a better idea how bad it is.
            Actually a bit more than 8e3 is enough ...

      • When you start going that far back, you need to include information on the atmospheric composition, the sun's luminosity, and point out major volcanic activity in order to make better sense of it.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jbengt ( 874751 )
        Taking a glance at that chart is deceiving as the different epochs have different scales to their timelines.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by vyvepe ( 809573 )
          That is correct. If the prediction added for year 2100 will hold than the current temperature rise will be likely quickest from all.

    • >> above 129 degrees Fahrenheit in Argentina
      Impossible. Argentina uses Celsius.

  • The bad part is that even if the electrical grid didn't fail, most air conditioning systems are built to withstand continuous usage like I imagine they would be operating. With that kind of heat, you'd be lucky the compressor turned off only to have it come back on a few minutes later.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by trparky ( 846769 )
      Aren't built*

      • Then you need a better A/C. (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        most air conditioning systems aren't built to withstand continuous usage like I imagine they would be operating.

        Sounds like BS to me. Here in AZ, in the summer time, it's nothing BUT the sound of continuously running air conditioning systems outside.

        In fact, if you're installing a non-continuously running air conditioner at this point, you're likely getting ripped off. We have super high efficiency mini-split systems today that get a lot of energy efficiency out of running continuously, albeit at variable low speeds.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by EvilSS ( 557649 )
      With big heat waves you usually end up with lots of popped starter capacitors. The rest of the system, as long as it doesn't have a leak, is pretty resilient.
      • Single-phase drops kill running 2-phase compressor motors. One cause of heat-wave power failures is lines sagging to the ground. One line usually shorts first leading to brief single phase drops before the ground imbalance blows the big breakers. There is enough energy in the system to damage a lot of compressor motors that are operating as rapidly heating resistors before the big breakers blow.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by EvilSS ( 557649 )
          Yes but I'd put that under "electrical grid failures" which the person I replied to excluded from their criteria.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by jbengt ( 874751 )
          2-phase compressor motors? Most residential compressor motors are single phase and most commercial ones are three phase. Two phase is almost unheard of.
          Anyway, motors will draw more amperage if the voltage drops, and that will heat the motor up more, which is not particularly good for it. If the voltage drops enough, hope there is protection against low voltage or motor overheating built into the system or motor.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by jbengt ( 874751 )
            Oh, didn't notice you meant loss of phase in multi-phase motors. Many, but by no means all, larger condensing units/refrigeration systems have protection against phase loss. I: remember one installation that lost several motors when a lighting strike on the utility somehow took out one phase but not others. They then added phase-loss protection, sort of like closing the barn door after the horses got out.
          • Most residential compressors are 240V 2-phase. As a landlord and owner of multiple AC units, I have had at least 3 compressor failures attributable to 1-phase drops in the last couple of decades. AC units should be designed to not fail this way, but this is clearly not something that is tested for. And we all know if you don't test ...

            • Most residential compressors are 240V 2-phase.

              Most residences don't have 2 phase 240 volt service let alone 240v 2-phase compressors. Most are split phase 120 v.

              As a landlord and owner of multiple AC units, I have had at least 3 compressor failures attributable to 1-phase drops in the last couple of decades.

              All a single leg voltage drop causes is a voltage drop. Complete loss of a leg results in no power at all. Sustained low voltage results in overheating as does a great number of other more likely problems.

          • Anyway, motors will draw more amperage if the voltage drops, and that will heat the motor up more, which is not particularly good for it.
            Perhaps you want to read up Ohm's law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

            • Wrong and ignorant, AC circuitry has more than Ohm's law going on, You might want to read up on reactance for a start.

              • Nevertheless the Amps can not rise when the voltage drops ... a no brainer.
                The only thing you can claim is: it was 2 phase first and now it is one phase, which can have the effect that it temporarily rises.
                But that was not the point of the post :P

                • Amps can indeed rise when applied voltage drops, the magnetic field around an inductor collapses and induces current. This is inductive reactance, of which you are ignorant.

                  • No, I'm not ignorant about that.
                    I learned that in physics.

                    And how long is that amp rise?

                    10ms? 100ms?

                    How big is it? I guess you have to look up how big an inductor in an air con is, rofl.

                    I'm tired to talk to nitpicking fucking idiots. The parent obviously implied a long term, very high amp rise, that damages the AC machine. And that literally can not happen. Dumbass. There is not enough power stored in any inductivity in a simple thing as a fridge.

                    • You seem to be unaware that with abrupt changes in the supply the line inductance comes into play too and can and does damage things at times.

                    • The inductance is a resistor.
                      And with half the voltage gone: it is hard to imagine what kind of damage it can do.

                      But if you have examples, I'm all ears :D

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jbengt ( 874751 )

      . . . most air conditioning systems are [not] built to withstand continuous usage like I imagine they would be operating.

      Running continuously is not as bad for an air conditioner as having it turn on and off a lot.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by trparky ( 846769 )
        I could understand commercial air conditioning systems to be able to handle that kind of continuous operation because hell, let's face it, they're generally much more expensive than your average home system. But home systems? Nah, I can't wrap my mind around the idea that your average cheap air conditioning system could handle running for eight hours straight.

  • Then we'd better hurry up and go nuclear ... and learn how to carbon capture.

    Just emoting about it doesn't seem to be working.

  • Ground temperatures are not air temperatures (Score:4, Informative)

    by wakeboarder ( 2695839 ) on Thursday January 13, 2022 @05:53PM (#62170909)

    129F Seems excessive, but I want to know the air temperature not the ground temperature, because that is what's reported on the weather apps. The ground is normally hotter than air in sunny conditions, because sunlight is directly heating the surface of the earth. The further you back away from from the earth the cooler it gets. Most air temperature measurements are taken in sheds that are at eye level for most people and a few feet off the ground, they do this so that ground temperature effects contribute less to the measurements. A satellite is picking up infrared radiation directly from the ground.

    • Re:Ground temperatures are not air temperatures (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Gravis Zero ( 934156 ) on Thursday January 13, 2022 @06:04PM (#62170955)

      129F Seems excessive, but I want to know the air temperature not the ground temperature

      Actually, ground temperatures should concern you because this is what will cause massive crop failures.

      • No it doesn't concern me, because up until the last few years no one has been reporting ground temperatures. Only recently did news organizations start to do this. Lets compare apples to apples (previous and current air temps) shall we?

        • Wow. This is silly. I measured ground temperatures in the early 1970s in Los Angeles. It was 140 degrees F. I don't remember the air temperature but it was probably in the 90s.

        • Up until the last few years no one has mentioned COVID either. That's the world we live in. We change and learn what is relevant to talk about and how. We adapt as we realise that ground temperatures are far more relevant than air temperatures to crops. We adapt as we realise CO2 isn't the only source of green house gasses leading to a lot of focus on methane. We adapt as we realise that ground temperatures are relevant to the thawing permafrost which has the potential to release a lot of methane.

          You're fre

          • "Ground temperature data isn't something new", the reporting of it in the news is new, up until the last year or two would news organizations report ground temperatures from satellites. Please read the post, I never said anything about ground temperatures being new.

    • 129F Seems excessive, but I want to know the air temperature not the ground temperature

      Not reading TFA is a time honored Slashdot tradition since I subscribed Jan 2000...

      But not reading TFS is a new low.

      As the sumary stated, air temperature was 41,5C in buenos aires, and 45C in the hottest part of the country. Hotter that the record of the southern hemisphere, which normaly goes to certain parts of Oz

      • Australia has areas that regularly hit 45 deg C, and the record is over 50 deg C [theguardian.com]. So no, it's not a record for the Southern hemisphere, nowhere close. Not even in South America, where it's reached nearly 49 deg C [asu.edu] in Argentina.

        This is a lot of FUD to push a narrative, and ignores actual facts to drive that narrative.

        • Australia hit 50.7degC (123.3degF) yesterday (13 Jan 22) - Onslow, Western Australia.
          And that is air temperature.

      • Hotter that the record of the southern hemisphere, which normaly goes to certain parts of Oz

        Hotter than Australia on that day, not hotter than the record in Australia. I've been in 46C weather, and that's only in Melbourne, far from the hottest part of the country.

      • You have time to read the articles? molodets

  • The longer you measure something that randomly varies, with a particular instrument, the more extreme events you will observe.

    • hopefully you don't see new extreme events every year or two. having a random climate seems like a bad thing to have.

    • The longer you measure something that randomly varies, with a particular instrument, the more extreme events you will observe.

      The total number of events will always go up (obviously the number can't go down without time travel), but the frequency of new records should go down over time.

  • Ground temperature is not air temperature. Ever seen people fry eggs on the pavement?

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