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United States

FAA Issues First Aircraft-Specific Limits Due To 5G Signals (bloomberg.com) 27

U.S. aviation regulators published the first aircraft-specific restriction related to new 5G service expected to begin next week, ordering operators of Boeing 737 Max jets to update landing requirements. From a report: Equipment on the planes that could be subject to interference from 5G radio waves could alter how the jet stops after touching down, the Federal Aviation Administration said in an airworthiness directive posted on a government website Friday. Interference from 5G could result in "degraded deceleration performance and longer landing distance than normal," the FAA said.
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FAA Issues First Aircraft-Specific Limits Due To 5G Signals

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  • by Fallen Kell ( 165468 ) on Friday January 14, 2022 @03:19PM (#62173369)
    The article messed up originally and they have corrected it, but /. has the wrong one in the headline now.
  • by Murdoch5 ( 1563847 ) on Friday January 14, 2022 @03:27PM (#62173407) Homepage
    5G could cause problems? Why can't they list the actual issues and the exact frequencies which are at fault? A properly engineered system can be checked to exact specification, and they're entire industries which focus on specification drafting, and testing! We've heard for years that 5G could be an issue, but that really means is the specifications and the testing haven't been completed to a satisfactory level.

    I understand that a 10+ years old system wouldn't have been designed to handle a young specification, like 5G, but that doesn't mean the parts / systems can't be certified against it. If you don't know if X is affected by Y, then you better test X against Y, especially if it's a mass rollout and if Y is likely to come in contact with X. Enough guessing, and enough scare tactics, do the testing and either demonstrate the systems are safe, or not. Carry out proper engineering, and you'll be amazed on how clear the answers become.
    • by jbengt ( 874751 )
      Just because TFS doesn't say specific things when it refers to TFA that doesn't say specific things, doesn't mean the specifics have been left out by those with a stake in the outcome.
    • by raftpeople ( 844215 ) on Friday January 14, 2022 @08:16PM (#62174079)
      They did do testing, the results are publicly available. From the summary presentation https://www.rtca.org/wp-conten... [rtca.org] [rtca.org]:
      "LIMITED NUMBER OF 5G SCENARIOS INVOLVED The impact to radar altimeters is limited to a set of specific scenarios, with only some base station configurations producing interference above the safe limit, and only for certain combinations of aircraft altitude and lateral distance between the aircraft and base station."

      "BUT EXTREME IMPACT ON AIRCRAFT Although the interference impacts for Usage Category 1 only arise in certain scenarios, the extent and safety consequences of those impacts are extreme: Unreliable radar altimeter signals delivered to the critical aircraft systems: Auto Pilot, Flight Controls, Terrain Avoidance, Cockpit Displays. Catastrophic impact with the ground, leading to multiple fatalities, is possible. "
  • by Mascot ( 120795 )

    The summary doesn't say. TFA doesn't say. I've heard of issues with radar altimeter interference, but I can't figure out the mechanism by which 5G signals would "alter how the jet stops after touching down". Is TFA misleading and it actually means it might cause touchdown at higher than normal speeds? The way it's written it seems the fly-by-wire systems are somehow susceptible to interference in a very specific manner that somehow affects the effectiveness of the brakes. Anyone?

    • Re:How? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Richard_at_work ( 517087 ) on Friday January 14, 2022 @03:44PM (#62173457)

      Quite a few airports these days are set up for “brake to vacate” systems, which allow the aircraft to know exactly where on the runway it is in relation to the taxiway exit that it wants to take, and in turn allows the aircraft to automatically brake accordingly to take that exit after touchdown.

      Some of these systems require ground stations, and it seems some of these ground stations are potentially affected in the same way radio altimeters are.

    • by bws111 ( 1216812 )

      I am not a pilot, but from what I understand the plane calls out height (50, 40, etc) as it nears the ground, and the pilots use this to know when to perform the 'flare' movement (raise the nose of the plane). The flare produces drag which slows the plane. If they flare too late (because they thought they were higher than they actually were) then this braking action is reduced and they land at a higher speed than normal. More speed means more runway to slow down, especially when it is wet or icy and the

  • Don't turn on my cell phone?

  • 5G intefears (Score:3, Informative)

    by sdinfoserv ( 1793266 ) on Friday January 14, 2022 @03:59PM (#62173503)
    "On Jan. 5, Verizon and AT&T will switch on a new spectrum of 5G wireless communications — the C-Band spectrum. The problem is that a study conducted last year shows that 5G transmissions in this spectrum interfere with radio altimeters on aircraft, saying there is a “major risk” that these systems “will cause harmful interference to radar altimeters on all civil aircraft.” These radio altimeters operate in an adjacent spectrum to 5G C-Band and are susceptible to interference."
    https://thepointsguy.com/news/... [thepointsguy.com]
    the study:
    https://www.icao.int/safety/FS... [icao.int]
    This is a situation where the FAA wants to understand what the real risk is, and corporations are heavily lobbying to no slow down but to utilize the bandwidth they purchased form the FCC to enhance communications and profit - if you think 5G is an enhancement.
    Likely what will happen is the communication cabal will get what they want till an aviation accident kills a bunch of people. Then the righties will use it as a reason to scream how inept the government is, when it was the righties and their owners the oligarchs that pushed ahead despite indications of conflict.
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      The FAA has had 10 years to sort this, and they havent.

      The issue is that radio altimeters operate on a 200Mhz band, and theres a 200Mhz guard band between the upper part of the 5G spectrum and the lower part of the radio altimeter band.

      Which should be enough.

      But most radio altimeters have a crap receive mask, so rather than listening to 200Mhz plus a little bit, they actually listen to a band between 1.5Ghz and 2Ghz in size depending on signal strength - way way beyond their allowed, regulated band.

      The FAA

  • They worry about fixable issues but don't care about unfixable ones - meteo conditions detection interference.

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