Porn Sites Will Be Legally Required To Verify Age of UK Users (bbc.com) 203
Porn websites will be legally required to verify the age of users in the United Kingdom under new internet safety laws. The BBC reports: The legislation, which is part of the draft Online Safety Bill, aims to give children better protection from explicit material. The measures, to ensure users are 18 or over, could see people asked to prove they own a credit card or confirm their age via a third-party service. Sites that fail to act could be fined up to 10% of their global turnover. The Online Safety Bill is expected to be introduced to parliament over the next few months and is designed to protect users from harmful content. Children's safety groups have long been calling for age verification on porn sites, over fears it is too easy for minors to access publicly available material online.
Announcing the age verification plans, Digital Economy Minister Chris Philp said: "Parents deserve peace of mind that their children are protected online from seeing things no child should see." As well as being able to fine websites that do not follow the rules, the regulator Ofcom could block them from being accessible in the UK. The bosses of these websites could also be held criminally liable if they fail to cooperate with Ofcom. Previously, only commercial porn sites that allowed user-generated content were in the scope of the Online Safety Bill, but all commercial porn sites will now be covered. [...] It will be up to companies to decide how best to comply with the new rules, but Ofcom may recommend the use of certain age verification technologies. However, the government says firms should not process or store data that is irrelevant to the purpose of checking someone's age.
Announcing the age verification plans, Digital Economy Minister Chris Philp said: "Parents deserve peace of mind that their children are protected online from seeing things no child should see." As well as being able to fine websites that do not follow the rules, the regulator Ofcom could block them from being accessible in the UK. The bosses of these websites could also be held criminally liable if they fail to cooperate with Ofcom. Previously, only commercial porn sites that allowed user-generated content were in the scope of the Online Safety Bill, but all commercial porn sites will now be covered. [...] It will be up to companies to decide how best to comply with the new rules, but Ofcom may recommend the use of certain age verification technologies. However, the government says firms should not process or store data that is irrelevant to the purpose of checking someone's age.
Think of the children! (Score:5, Insightful)
I am very curious as to how they expect to enforce this against foreign operators
Re:Think of the children! (Score:4, Informative)
Blocking the DNS lookups I guess....
The original bill was looking at "other countries who have successfully implemented protection technology" which is China, Iran and a I think Russia.
They wanted to make MindGeek to be the gatekeeper which means handing the dominant player even more power.
They can't enforce it (Score:5, Insightful)
This will all fail just like the last attempt, as sites like PornHub can offer free VPN services to legally route connections through other countries anonymously. Likewise, none of this will stop people searching up porn on YouTube, BitTorrent and other services... all of which are exempt due to not being adult services on paper.
Re: They can't enforce it (Score:2)
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Most smaller ISPs will be exempt too, in all likelihood. Currently smaller ISPs are exempt from having to collect data and store it for years in case the police want access to it, and exempt from the Cleanfeed censorship system, and not obliged to follow court ordered site blocking.
It's only the big ISPs that use this stuff. Sky, BT, Virgin Media, Plusnet and a few others.
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Firefox, Chrome and Edge all encouraging centralized DNS-over-HTTPS for home users
They just want control and advertising metrics - they aren't trying to help you. It's not like they offer a UI to enter your preferred DoH DNS servers. And you know they will all have to comply with the law and adjust results based on the laws of the countries their users are in.
Re:They can't enforce it (Score:4, Insightful)
DNS blocks don't work the moment one uses non-ISP DNS servers. Also, thanks to Firefox, Chrome and Edge all encouraging DNS-over-HTTPS for home users, it would be a pipe dream to try to enforce even were UK ISPs to intercept and rewrite DNS requests like they used to. Also, leased lines will be exempt to avoid conflicts with other laws, meaning that UK-based VPNs will be fine to look at porn too.
This will all fail just like the last attempt, as sites like PornHub can offer free VPN services to legally route connections through other countries anonymously. Likewise, none of this will stop people searching up porn on YouTube, BitTorrent and other services... all of which are exempt due to not being adult services on paper.
That's the point.
The Tories know it's absolutely unenforceable but there is a significant number of bible bashers who thing PORN IS BAD and want it banned. So they've put a law in place that won't apply to any site hosted outside the United Kingdom and the Conservatives get to keep the god botherers placated.
We have less of a religious right than the US (thankfully) but they still exist.
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They need their young males angry for their planned invasion of Taiwan.
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Uh, yeah. Apparently, you've never been 10. Your reaction to porn, at that age, is to giggle, say "ewww, gross!" and get bored.
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I see what you did there (Score:3)
So you just made slashdot a porn site requiring age verification
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A border filtering operation, I expect.
One which will come in extremely handy when they want to block some other "objectionable" content, like water quality facts or embarrassing stories about the Prime Minister's wife.
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This is already the case. Political stuff gets blocked on Youtube and recently even on Twitter so that I have to not only log in but also identify myself with ID to prove I am over 18. I mean i couldn't access video about Bertrand Russell recently! There is a whole spectrum of tools to limit access, from forcing takedown and removing users to limiting access by suppressing the spread of the messages: can't forward it ,can't follow the account; have to log in to see stuff, silent unfollow, silent suppression
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Really? I wonder which video that was, why it was blocked and by whom. I don't have a Youtube logon and the only blocking I have fallen foul of is Geo-Blocking - which is when I turn VPN on.
Re: Think of the children! (Score:2)
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It's actually just pushback against corporo-fascism. Free speech is actually really expensive and the people with the most money often get heard more than the people with the most knowledge. Who do you think funds and produces all these viral videos?
I'm not saying this is indeed the solution - but you can't go on acting like unrestricted and uncensored is truly free. It's bought and paid for.
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A border filtering operation, I expect.
Will they also block Google?
Typing "Britney naked" into google will serve up some NSFW images.
Re: Think of the children! (Score:2)
No but google will require ID to use nsfw filters.
And all pron sites will have lists of everybodys kinks.
Sounds like a great plan lol. Well don't need to comply with pesky eu rules now..
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The horse has already bolted, no point in trying to lock the door.
Besides: They all have cameras these days, if kids can't find any porn online they'll make it themselves.
Re: Think of the children! (Score:2)
Re:Think of the children! (Score:5, Insightful)
Foreign porn companies will be eager to implement this because it means they can get your personal data - real name, real age, maybe a real address, credit card details on file for one-click payments...
I expect there will be lots of new fake porn sites opening, purely to harvest people's data and then blackmail them. Remember that spate of emails claiming to have photographed you masturbating via your webcam?
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This is about direct effect, but a lot of this is in the potential:
- getting the infrastructure out there to control and monitor all internet activity
- getting the precedents out there so the next step is small
- getting the message out there that everything you do online is monitored and can be used against you.
The main thing is control. That does not mean the average user has to feel the effect. You only feel the electric fence once you bump into it.
Right now the liberal mainstream in Western Europe is mos
Re: Think of the children! (Score:2)
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Verification will be via a third-party service - it's in the summary.
Even better. Just a single place to hack and/or buy the user data from.
This is 1) not going to work the way they think/pretend it will, 2) not going to end up in a good place.
Re:Think of the children! (Score:4, Insightful)
Verification will be via a third-party service - it's in the summary.
Even better. Just a single place to hack and/or buy the user data from.
This is 1) not going to work the way they think/pretend it will, 2) not going to end up in a good place.
I don't think they have thought that far. Remember, all Britons will have to confirm their age via a third-party service. All the Tories are thinking about at the moment is the mountains of money their friends, family and party donors stand to make when they become the state appointed age verifying gate keepers of all porn. Whether it works is completely unimportant as long as friends, family and party donors can siphon off tons of taxpayer money for this service and thus prove themselves to be makers, not takers and winners of the great British meritocracy who earned their wealth from the sweat of their brow, not through nepotism and by mooching off the state and the taxpayer.
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Also gives them access to a treasure trove of dirt on political opponents, annoying journalists etc.
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Also gives them access to a treasure trove of dirt on political opponents, annoying journalists etc.
As soon as one politician's data gets leaked, they'll amend the law to "fix" the problem. Look what the US did when Judge Bork's rather unremarkable video rental history was released. Lawmakers immediately discovered bipartisanship and passed a law outlawing it, because, well privacy, becasue without it we can't control the story.
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A lot of them simply use 'having a credit card' as verification. Since banks won't directly issue one to those under 18. Nevermind that kids of any age can get a card with a parent's consent (and hopefully parental spending controls). And it may be hard to tell the difference between a credit card and a prepaid debit card (or they may not set their service up properly.
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Not really. This is part of a push for mass-surveillance, nobody of the people behind this cares whether children see porn or not. They may put up a show of trying to enforce this against foreign operators, but in the end, they will probably try to put up DNS filter and eventually long term, a "great firewall of the UK" to protect against nothing but to allow to see what ordinary people are doing on the net.
Re: Think of the children! (Score:2)
Re: Think of the children! (Score:2)
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by blocking at the border if you don't comply.
Just like the Piratebay is blocked in my country? Sorry I said blocked, I meant "blocked". Reminder: Every idiot on youtube is advertising VPNs services and that term is basically turning into a common household term.
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Boy sure is a good thing no lasting effects come from that, right?
...is that a trick question?
Re: Think of the children! (Score:2)
In parliament (Score:5, Funny)
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He will deny it of course, then some enterprising cabinet member will email the Daily Mail with screenshots of Boris PC
Re:In parliament (Score:4, Funny)
No more anonymous porn surfing (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course this user data will be stored in a database.
Of course these databases will be stolen.
Of course the users in those databases will be blackmailed by the thieves.
Of course everybody will pretend to be surprised after this happens...
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Exactly. This is about forcing users to identify themselves to every website. Plus, I'd love to know how this works on sites such as Twitter, where porn is freely available.
These muppets think *nothing* through properly because they just couldn't give a shit. I knew Chris Philp years ago. He was moderately intelligent but always a slimy toad.
Re: No more anonymous porn surfing (Score:3)
Re: No more anonymous porn surfing (Score:2)
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They could just enforce everyone in the UK to use their National Health Number
Re:No more anonymous porn surfing (Score:5, Insightful)
Given they planned to give it to MindGeek (and probably let them monetize the data as payment) it may not be stolen... it's just handing a very dominant company yet more private data.
If I go to Reddit where there is adult data available I would be tracked despite not looking at it. Will the age verification stop at a flag on the account? Am I allowed to have more than one account? There are legitimate reasons to use a not personal account, whistleblowing in the InfoSec space for example or contacting journalists regarding government practices.
Lastly, when the data is monetized it will likely be sold to nasty regimes and we know how that goes.
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I doubt this is particularly strong blackmail material. It's not the 1950s any more. Nobody cares.
Re: No more anonymous porn surfing (Score:2)
Re:No more anonymous porn surfing (Score:5, Informative)
Already happened once. Many years ago a ACS:Law accidentally published a list of people they were suing for downloading porn. The file contained names, addresses and the porn they were accused of downloading.
Re:No more anonymous porn surfing (Score:4, Insightful)
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To be fair to Andrew Crossley, in that instance it appears he was just an incompetent fuckwit and didn't intend for it to happen.
He ended up getting sanctioned and ACS:Law closed. He works for some other law firm now.
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The only thing to do then is that everyone registers with pornsites. Then nobody can be blackmailed with it.
It already happens btw. the FBI thought porn blackmail was a great idea to turn muslim men into informers, I think , what, 20 years ago?
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And all that is the reason why there always will be anonymous porn surfing.
Gooey GUI (Score:3, Funny)
"Click on both tits if you are 18 or older..."
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For some reason this reminded me of an old cartoon, Mysterious Cities of Gold.
It was a French/Japanese collaboration about some children who travel from 16th century Europe to the New World. At one point there is a puzzle that requires the children to place two gem stones where the nipples on a statue of a woman would go.
I know the French are less bothered about that stuff, but there must be a story behind it. Someone did that deliberately. It was shown in the UK and in Japan too, although I don't know if t
Sure this will work (Score:5, Funny)
Re: Sure this will work (Score:2)
Do you part and teach everyone to torrent.
Gift card system somehow.... (Score:2)
The "giftcard" system is also pretty stupid.
Last time around they wanted to sell cards where the off-license and shops would check age but since this would be the anonymous solution it just means that porn comes with a fee.
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Or otherwise there will be a global trade-market. For example, I can get completely anonymous Paysafe cards here from vending machines.
This is Censorship (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: This is Censorship (Score:2)
It's funny your comment is totally on point and then you push that right-wing websites are somehow a safe haven. They just are avoided the flak of government censorship by having small user bases but they also have small user bases because they heavily moderate. These communities are still gated in ideology.
Now, this has likely always been the case for most forums and small user bases makes moderation easier but the point I am making is they aren't bastions of free speech where one can soap box any perspect
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It's funny your comment is totally on point and then you push that right-wing websites are somehow a safe haven.
Hahaha, they are not. It is right-wingers that are behind all this crap. Well and some extremist that are variations of extremist right-wing but get mis-classified as "leftist". They are not. Unless you believe things like Nazis being "left", because there is "socialism" in the full name ...
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I see you haven't been "censured" by the Republican Party yet. Wait a bit, they'll get to you sooner or later.
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I see you haven't been "censured" by the Republican Party yet. Wait a bit, they'll get to you sooner or later.
That one is pretty simple: They will never do that to right-thinking conservatives. Anybody that disagrees will simply find that they are really "leftist" extremists and never were decent right-wingers!
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Naa. Some stupid banks are refusing this in some countries where they may do so. The credit-card providers do not care, or rather they are well aware how much volume they would lose. As credit cards are always issued via a bank or sometimes another business, these issuers may engage in demented virtue signalling. It may take a bit, but in the end it will simply be somebody else making that business.
The usual hangup with sex (Score:5, Insightful)
that seems to be a feature of the western world. Meanwhile the kids will still be able to happily download violent videos and pictures, real or not of people being shot, stabbed, blown up etc. But 2 people making love? No! Ban it! Perverts!
Yes there's an issue with violent porn which needs to be addressed , but this one size fits all approach will be the usual case of knee jerk politicians looking like they're doing something without actually achieving anything.
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The western world? Sure. We should learn from such enlightened eastern nations as India, China, and Iran, who of course have no problems with depictions of sexuality.
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India is a strange one - watch a bollywood movie sometime to see all the scantily clad women - because its pulling in 2 directions. Modernisers on one hand and religious nutters on the other.
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And yet you'll never see so much as a kiss on screen. An insinuation at most.
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The main driving force seems to be "christian" religions where the relevant church is very intent only allowing prayer for "fun". Not that some other religions are any better, but these fuckers have a lot to ask for.
Please don't porn-shame. There's no violent porn (Score:3)
Yes there's an issue with violent porn which needs to be addressed , but this one size fits all approach will be the usual case of knee jerk politicians looking like they're doing something without actually achieving anything.
I watch a FuckTon of porn and have been doing so since before internet porn was a thing, but I haven't seen much, if any, I'd consider problematic. I don't think there really is an "issue" with violent porn that needs to be addressed. Mainstream porn outlets don't want anything too toxic. I think porn is just fine now. Anything genuinely problematic is not profitable and no one has any incentive to enable it.
I am sure somewhere, something bad is being uploaded and generally dealt with as soon as those
This VPN ad brought to you by the government (Score:2)
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someone dug into a number of popular VPN providers and found out that a significant number of ultimately ended up being linked to, or were directly controlled by, Chinese companies.
There's two sides to that coin. Such a huge number of people behind the Great Firewall are VPN users - and it would be especially profitable to a Chinese company that can stay under the radar. Risky, but rewarding. But if the government catches them, would they shut it down or silently take it over?
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The usual problem is that any VPN that is a business is subject to government pressure by it being a business. The ones that are not (TOR, for example) are subject to attacks by governments. Usually you have to make some mistakes to be vulnerable though.
How the f*ck (Score:4, Funny)
How the f*ck do they think this supposed to work? Are they seriously this thick? My God, their thought process is 1.) Pass a law, 2.) Watch the magic elves implement it.
Just dumb. Keep anything sharp away from them, they're likely to hurt themselves...
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> How the f*ck do they think this supposed to work?
Users can send in pics of their dicks and vages and the site operator can decide if those dicks or vages are old enough to be allowed on the site.
Easy.
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How the f*ck do they think this supposed to work? Are they seriously this thick?
Have you looked at the nil-whit that is currently their "leader"?
This from the land of the page 3 girl. (Score:2)
stop the insanity (Score:3)
At some point at need to get past these bizarre Western Christian beliefs that sex is bad and children get mentally deranged by knowing that sex exists.
If a kid sees porn, it does not mentally scar them for life. How do I know? Because I saw playboys when I was a kid and I'm not mentally scarred!!! These people obsessed with children have lost their god damn minds.
Re:stop the insanity (Score:4, Insightful)
At some point at need to get past these bizarre Western Christian beliefs that sex is bad and children get mentally deranged by knowing that sex exists.
IMHO religion causes more harm to kids than does most porn. Can we use age verification to stop kids being told: that people with different coloured skin are bad; that sex is only for procreation; that gays/lesbians are perverts; that you must believe in brand X mythology without real evidence; ...
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At some point at need to get past these bizarre Western Christian beliefs that sex is bad and children get mentally deranged by knowing that sex exists.
IMHO religion causes more harm to kids than does most porn. Can we use age verification to stop kids being told: that people with different coloured skin are bad; that sex is only for procreation; that gays/lesbians are perverts; that you must believe in brand X mythology without real evidence; ...
Oh, most definitely. Religion is pretty much a force of evil. Hilariously, many religions have the concept of the devil as a "trickster", but ignore completely that they have long since taken over by that trickster. As to porn, the only problem is that teenagers (children are simply not interested or merely grossed out) may think this is a realistic depiction and not an artistic performance by professional entertainers and may hence think that they themselves are lacking in equipment or capabilities. It is
Re:stop the insanity (Score:4, Interesting)
As to porn, the only problem is that teenagers (children are simply not interested or merely grossed out) may think this is a realistic depiction and not an artistic performance by professional entertainers and may hence think that they themselves are lacking in equipment or capabilities.
This would have made sex education so much better.
Teacher: As you can see here, one may think his penis is 9” long but I’m quite familiar with Aneda Cox and she is only 4’10” and given the position shown, the lens, and choice of pan angle, it’s only 6” at best. So as you can see, this is a performance by artists to create an effective illusion and isn’t representative of reality.
Next week, why a pizza delivery job isn’t an invitation to never ending sexual encounters.
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No one really knows the harm done by most things.Everything causes harm to some degree.
I personally prefer to look at history. We've had thousands of years of human civilization with thousands of different cultures in thousands of different locations.. There's lessons there in terms of what works and what doesn't work or things you have to watch out for.
Even something like atheism. It's not a new concept to not believe in religion. Yet, why did atheism not win out historically? I don't know. The answer migh
Re: stop the insanity (Score:2)
I don't think all porn is okay, and we certainly have enough data right now that shows that Internet porn is having a massive effect on the sex life of young people. And not in all cases a positive one. But you know what would really help with that? Comprehensive, open, and candid sex education.
Some things are priceless (Score:2)
For everything else, including a VPN subscription, you'll pay with Mastercard.
Already saved for the posterity (Score:2)
That's alright. I knew this was coming so I've already downloaded all my favourite vids.
In related news... (Score:2)
Name and shame (Score:2)
Next step will be naming and shaming anybody watching gay porn or 'teen' porn.
Re: Name and shame (Score:2)
That will be when the access logs "leak". Also, prime material for blackmailing and extorting people.
But ... (Score:5, Funny)
It's for the children (Score:2)
Upfront: I do believe that porn is bad for kids. Talk about a way to screw up your already awkward teenage relationships :-/
However 1: How do they expect to enforce this for non-UK providers? Even if they create a blacklist, VPNs are a thing.
However 2: Whatever verification system they find, will be circumvented in a matter of hours. Sneak the parent's credit card. One kid gets verified, and passes his login to 20 friends. Whatever - this is simply not going to work.
tl;dr: Yet another "feel good" pi
Opinion (Score:3)
I consume pornography and I strongly oppose this measure.
It won't stop kids from consuming it and it will be used as a political lever to suppress other content.
Oh No! (Score:2)
Now I'll need a fake ID to rent ultra porn!
I have three words for that (Score:2)
They tried to build in protections (no pun intended) to the earliest runs of that game to keep kids from playing it. They only made the kids want to play it more, even if they didn't understand the goal or the bulk of the content.
Age Verification Required already? (Score:2)
Every time I verify my age on one of these sites right now I need to get a new credit card number. Requiring this will make 10x more people fall for these scams. Maybe make scams illegal first?
Yeah, sure that's why (Score:2)
The first step is to claim it protects children. The second step is to find a way to monetize it.
We don't think this is a way to protect kids, do we? It's just a way to make money off of porn. And how long until a child is hurt when the sensitive data collected gets exposed?
In other news... (Score:2)
Sales of VPNs skyrocket in the UK.
Stupid and trivially bypassed: VPN (Score:3)
Unless they also outlaw VPN, this is just stupid. Even if you discount all the other work-arounds and pretend this will be 100% perfectly enforced you bring about another problem:
Requiring porn sites to protect the identity/PII/credit card info of all their users. Ashley Madison being an easy example, but the amount of hacks targeting personal data keep growing and making porn sites collect that data will make them bigger targets.
Worse, it gives legitimacy to scam sites requesting credit card info.
p.s. if big crypto exchanges can't adequately geo-lock users or prevent widespread fraud/money laundering/etc. when "real money" is involved, how does the UK really expect this to happen? The ONLY good part is how laws in the EU leverage fines according to "% of gross revenue" that have actual bite to them.