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'Pathetic' Performance Has Left US 'Well Behind' China in 5G Race, ex-Google CEO Eric Schmidt Says (cnbc.com) 98

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
The U.S. government's "dithering" has left the country "well behind" China in the race to build out 5G technology, former Google CEO Eric Schmidt said, as he urged Washington to step up investment in the next-generation internet technology. From a report: Writing in an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal, Schmidt and Graham Allison, a professor of government at Harvard, said that America is "far behind in almost every dimension of 5G while other nations -- including China -- race ahead." The authors urged the Biden administration to make 5G a "national priority." Otherwise, they said, "China will own the 5G future." 5G refers to next-generation wireless internet that promises super-fast download speeds. But it could also form the basis for industrial and military applications and form a way for devices to communicate with each other. That's why it's seen as a critical technology and one of the reasons China is moving quickly with its own 5G rollout and future applications.
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'Pathetic' Performance Has Left US 'Well Behind' China in 5G Race, ex-Google CEO Eric Schmidt Says More

'Pathetic' Performance Has Left US 'Well Behind' China in 5G Race, ex-Google CEO Eric Schmidt Says

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  • 5G isn't the future (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Karganeth ( 1017580 ) on Friday February 18, 2022 @04:13PM (#62281273)
    5G has comically short range, uses tons of battery, and the super high bandwidth speeds are useless for 99%+ of the population. 4G is fast enough for video streaming which is the most intensive bandwidth application for most people. The reason 5G is being pushed so hard is that the 4G bandwidth gets overloaded in dense cities and the signals interfere too much, so their solution is to introduce a new 5G signal that fades out before it gets a chance to interfere with other signals.

    • Re:5G isn't the future (Score:4, Interesting)

      by luvirini ( 753157 ) on Friday February 18, 2022 @04:20PM (#62281321)

      Well, the thing is, so far every step in the mobile internet has produced new things that were not very viable before.

      Of course 5g may be different, but I think that in few years we will have some new tech that really to work well requires better than 4g.

      But it usually takes a few years until the services to make use of the new speed possibilities come along so, while 5G might seem useless mostly today, in say.. 5 years we will likely have something that needs 5G to be userfendly and thus videly adopted.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by ras ( 84108 )

        Well, the thing is, so far every step in the mobile internet has produced new things that were not very viable before.

        Each bump in mobile internet increased bandwidth, by quite a bit. So did 5G. They've done that in two ways: smarter (and more power hungry, feel that toasty 5G phone in your pocket baby) radios, and shrinking cell sizes. However, with 5G they are reaching the limits of how much data can be pushed over radio waves at a given frequency, and it shows. The speed increase we get at normal mob

        • So you're fine with total link bandwidth being limited to about 1Gbps (let's be generous and round up) or 200MB/s. If 50 users over the span of several square miles try to download something, they're doing it at a measly 4MB/s assuming perfect transmission (not likely) If you're happy with that speed, i guarantee you're from the rural areas lol

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Echoez ( 562950 ) *

      Exactly, you beat me to it. The number one use for high speed data is watching video, and you only need X amount of bandwidth to do so. Watching 4k or 8k video on a mobile phone is not a pressing national interest. 5G doesn't help with really anything else of any importance.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      5G is needed to activate the graphene oxide nanoparticles. You thought Google was creepy and evil today with all their tracking and targetting of your interests, but wait until they can read and write your thoughts remotely over 5G! It's gonna be a brave new world folks.

    • I've seen adds where they're pushing it as a home internet solution. I wonder if there's more carrier appeal in pushing into new markets like this (and maybe other IOT appeals) than necessarily improving bandwidth to people with handsets.

      5G mini towers not much bigger than light poles have gone up in my area, including one on my block, and I kind of wonder if the signal is good enough inside people's houses to get "5G" speeds, or whether you need literal line of sight with zero obstructions.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by madbrain ( 11432 )

        T-Mobile 5G service doesn't penetrate my house at all. I tried a Verizon SIM last year. Speedtest showed an entire 1 kbps download speed. I kid you not. Yes, this was with the phone locked to a 5G signal. Have yet to try AT&T. I live in the hills, and my home is made of thick building materials. All carrier maps shows it being in the best coverage area for 5G. Sigh.

    • Help with the congestion problems on 4G? If I can download at 10 times the speed but I'm streaming video then what's going to happen is I'm going to download a chunk of video and buffer it and then while I'm not downloading because I don't need the next chunk yet somebody else can and we can alternate without saturating the network. I'm sure I'm drastically oversimplifying this kind of protocol but I think that's the idea.

    • Re:5G isn't the future (Score:4, Insightful)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Friday February 18, 2022 @07:10PM (#62281891)

      5G has comically short range, uses tons of battery, and the super high bandwidth speeds are useless for 99%+ of the population.

      What are you talking about? The 5G I know has very long range (better than 4G), doesn't have high battery use, and isn't very fast. Oh... you think 5G is what Sprint has been marketing to you on TV? Rather than an evolution of mobile standards that bring over 150 changes to the existing 4G standard including optimisations to the air interface, subscriber count per base station, multicasting, broadcasting, and many other features that actually merge several standards together under one umbrella?

      Let me repeat what I do to everyone who comes here complaining 4G is "fast enough": YOU ARE NOT THE TARGET MARKET. Corporations are, IoT device providers are, emergency services and users of land-mobile radio are. The fact that 5G is faster and *also supports* but does not mandate a higher frequency with a shorter range is like saying the only difference between a Ferrari and a Ford Fiesta is the former comes in yellow.

      Please learn a bit about the things you chose to complain about.

      • The real issue with 5G is they have to phase out 3g to do so, and there is a lot of industrial equipment tested and validated with 3G equipment that serve roles in vital infrastructure. You can't just shut off 3G, as the service life of the last 3g equipment is longer than the service life of the standard. Only in the past 2 years have you been unable to register a new line for a 3G device. It's going to be a slow phase out over the next 3-5 years, and then they'll be room in the spectrum and on the towers

    • The main purpose of 5G is to allow big data to collect more data so they can become gigantic data.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by antdude ( 79039 )

      With newer smartphones like iPhones (12 and 13), 5G sucks in rural area. Their 4G LTE isn't reliable too like in older iPhones (4S, 6 +, & 11 Pro Max). Sometimes the older iPhones get 3G and 1X. They will be shut down soon. :(

    • Going to have to agree with this luddite right here.

      Never once, have I thought 4G is too slow for me. I still see speeds ranging from 20, to 150Mbit depending on location and I've heard of higher.

      I'm sure 5G is good but 4G seems to have proven good enough for a while.

      2G was AWFUL, (dialup) 3G was ok (ADSL1) - but 4G feels like a true high broadband link and I can't see me complaining "man, it's just too slow" - not even once.

      Not reliable enough? Not smooth enough pings? Maybe but never "this is clearly

    • 5G has comically short range, uses tons of battery, and the super high bandwidth speeds are useless for 99%+ of the population. 4G is fast enough for video streaming which is the most intensive bandwidth application for most people.

      640k ought to be enough for anyone...

    • This is pretty much exactly what people said about 3G. Short range, high battery use, and why do people need the internet on their phones anyway?

  • ... now they have finished R&Din RF Brainscan tech Ecross the EU:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/consp... [reddit.com] .. and now they need it badly for wide area control and surveillance before USD is scheduled to hit the ground:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/consp... [reddit.com] ... and they "reboot" the society:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/consp... [reddit.com]

    It's all just a human swarm game:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/consp... [reddit.com]

  • Well. . . (Score:2, Insightful)

    by BytePusher ( 209961 )
    We know where this is going. . . Democrats will authorize some $X billion of dollars for businesses to invest in infrastructure that they'll use $X million to marginally put up some 5G towers and the rest will go to stock buybacks.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by bn-7bc ( 909819 )
      So reducing company debt ( yes shares are debt ( just look at whsre they are pkaced on a balancesheet ), just with an un specified maturity date and no guaranty of geting a yearly ROI or even the principal back) is a bad thing? Ifc the premiums that are often involeved in buybacks can be a bone of contention
      • Uh, yes that's a terrible thing. If the govt gives you money for improving 5G connectivity, and you give it to your shareholders that's terrible for the citizens. If it's your own money, then go right ahead

  • We here at google like to track people through android. We track where they eat, where they shop, where they sleep. We also track if they're stuck in traffic. We track things you haven't even thought of yet. We sell this information to advertisers so you get targeted advertising.

    Due to the enormous amount of tracking data we aggregate, we need to update the cellular networks. We simply don't have enough bandwidth over the air with 4g to track everyone. China, a country known for their citizen tracking

  • Is google saying we should nationalize services such as Google and Cerizon and the like so that the government can more directly control investments to insure national needs are met. Traditionally in the US we have allowed the free market and consumer demand determine infrastructure, while regulation meant that everyone had a level playing field. But if corporate America is admitting failure I am sure that cansaron socialists like Ted Cruz can help.

  • Hmmm (Score:2)

    by flippy ( 62353 )
    If it's soooo important, why doesn't Mr. Schmidt invest some of his own money into building it out? Or perhaps he would just like the government to pay for it so that he doesn't have to? Put up or shut up, Eric.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Sebby ( 238625 )

      Put up or shut up, Eric.

      Exactly - sounds like he has some stake in it, and isn't satisfied that whoever he's invested in isn't up to par, and wants the government to step in to pump up its value.

  • What, exactly, are we "racing" for? If China "beats" us, do are we stuck on 4G? Do I really need to stream 4k video on a 6" screen? Is this some kind of X-Prize competition? Or is this just political rhetoric to garner tax breaks and government subsidies?

  • Who cares? (Score:3)

    by Gravis Zero ( 934156 ) on Friday February 18, 2022 @04:26PM (#62281341)

    No, it's a serious question. Who cares about not having 5G? I ask this because in the US, telecom allot you a pittance for the amount of data you can transfer before getting charged an outrageous amount. So normal people don't care if it takes one minute or 10 minutes to blow through your monthly data cap. I guess billionaires don't give a shit about normal people who actually have to maintain a budget and not just spend money on a whim.

    • Yes exactly--higher speeds are meaningless without much higher bandwidth caps for a given price point.

      And if they want to charge me $5 per gigabyte for my phone, what would they want for a '5G home internet' connection that will use a terabyte or more?
    • The purpose is to enable IOT for devices that really do not need to be connected to perform their primary function. But folks like Eric want them connected so that he and his buddies can collect more data about you and find news ways to make money from that data.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by bn-7bc ( 909819 )
      You migt need a burst of suoer quick transfer now and again, I'm not sure different people have. different needs. Most people will probably mostly notice it when they are stuck with a lot of other people in a small area (daily commute, queueing for som big event etc) this js when the increased rf eficencues and in some cases the deployment i mm-wave will make the biggest difference. And once 2g gers turned off, you will have low speed ( but probably faster than 2g) data evrywhere you have 2g voice now

      • So, "might want" and "crowded area" situations are hardly constitute a need for a massive network upgrade.

  • But Eric, I thought you wanted the invisible hand of the market to make 5G and any other technology a thing.

    I thought that was the point about markets and market demand.

    Since why do you need government to grow markets?

    Oh, is it because when markets decide they are just not into your latest technology, you need government to drag markets along, all the while lining your pockets.

    Fuck off.

  • 'Pathetic' Performance Has Left US 'Well Behind' China in 5G Race, ex-Google CEO Eric Schmidt Says

    You mean the same Schmidt, who was "adult supervision" when Google was "growing up", and which has been raping people's privacy ever since, all while claiming to "do no evil"? That 'shitty parent' Schmidt?

  • America is "far behind in almost every dimension of 5G while other nations -- including China -- race ahead."

    Using this technology is local. Pretty sure my 5G phone can't access China's 5G infrastructure from Virginia. In addition, pretty sure I can do everything I need/want to do -- or, at least, everything important -- as-is. The actual/practical "benefits" of 5G are overblown, except to the people pushing it.

    • This. 5G is just overhyped wireless gigabit ethernet, nothing more. Its existence changes very little. Oh wait, self driving cars. Whatever.

      • IDK. It was really nice being able to use my phone while at a concert recently. On the otherhand, I went to a football game the last year Chargers were in San Diego, and my phone was basically useless because of the amount of people in one spot.

        The concert was part of a 3 day festival (I just did one day, plenty for me), so it was definitely busy.

        If that's because 5g is in place now where as 4 years ago, it wasn't, then that's why we need 5g, so my phone works regardless how many people are around.

  • Is this the same huckster who constantly claims that China...an oppressive cesspool behind Mexico and Iran in average wages and HDI...is some sort of economic and governmental genius that should be admired and emulated in the West?

    The level of alternate-universe coverage China buys for itself in the media and academia is like if Stalin teamed up with Don Draper.

    • it doesn't mention who submitted the article anymore. /. is known to be writhing with wumao parasites and their sock puppet accounts.

    • Well, yes. He is an American. Contrary to much proof against it, they still believe that the US is the number one country in the world, while illiteracy sores to over 50% and clean drinking water is a serious issue. Particularly a professor from an acceptable university should know better.
      • You just made up both of those claims. Stop.
        • Here is one:

          https://orinocotribune.com/uni... [orinocotribune.com]

          which says:

          According to the US Department of Education, 54% of US adults between 16 and 74 years old (about 130 million people) lack basic reading comprehension skills, ranking below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.

          To put it in another perspective, there are 130 million adults who cannot understand texts that are appropriate for eleven or twelve-year olds.

          Second one even has its own wikipedia page:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] So I w
  • Better to start thinking about what shape 6G should take.
  • "man, the cell service here only gives me 100mbit instead of 200mbit. I'm moving to a hostile country over this one issue!" - said nobody ever.

  • Call me when someone not set to make billions more from this tech cries wolf.

  • The Free Maket In Action (Score:3)

    by TomGreenhaw ( 929233 ) on Friday February 18, 2022 @05:47PM (#62281627)
    People just aren't demanding what 5G *might* offer. IMHO, it doesn't offer enough for people to buy new handsets and upgrade their service.

    Several years from now, residential fixed wireless that benefits from 5G and rural adoption of satellite like StarLink will be a thing, but for now what is currently on the market is good enough for Joe Average.

  • Carriers in China charge extra for 5G and I really wonder how many people have been suckered into paying for this. In my region (Sichuan), I pay Â¥39 (US$6) a month for 10 GB of 4G. The cheapest 5G plan is Â¥129 (US$20) per month for the same 30 GB.

    See http://s.10010.com/sc/feesetli... [10010.com]

  • With a cellphone, battery life, and call reliability is far more important than network speed.

  • Thanks to the huge investment by Google in China for search and AI... Feeling any regrets there Schmidty? I guess you are too rich to feel regret.

  • Bayer?
    Floyd-Steinberg?
    Stucki?
    Jarvis?

  • China doesn't have regulation the way the US does. China's approach is "do this" "don't do that". The US's approach is more like "File all of this paperwork we generated to justify our existence and paycheck and we'll sit on it for several months because we don't want to make a decision that might make us look like the idiots we are. Then when the clock starts to run out, we'll stall you by demanding more B.S. like environmental impact studies that will take years to create and even longer to review at w

  • Instead of humping Washington's leg and barking, he could have made investments into actual American development of 5G. Crüxshadows have something to say [youtube.com]
  • I'm tired of big wealthy companies asking for the government to help them with their businesses. 5G was developed in the USA by Qualcomm and 5G will be implemented where companies can make a profit by installing it.

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