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United Kingdom

UK Says It Will Work 'All Day' To Persuade Europe To Cut Russia Off From Swift (theguardian.com) 166

The UK has said it will work "all day" to persuade fellow European states to cut Russia off from the international Swift payment system. From a report: The UK defence secretary, Ben Wallace, ended the pretence that Britain was not at odds with its fellow European leaders over the issue. He said there was still time for Russia to be excluded, and the foreign secretary, Liz Truss, said: "The UK is working with allies to exclude Russia from the Swift financial system." Wallace added: "We will work all the magic, do everything we can in diplomacy." Truss is to undertake a round of shuttle diplomacy to try to rally support for the British position after the EU refused to adopt what has been billed as the "nuclear option" of sanctions. The story adds: Swift is incorporated under Belgian law and, although supervised by a complex web of central banks, it was forced in 2012 to comply with an EU regulation, as confirmed by its home country government, that had cut Iran off from the banking system.
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UK Says It Will Work 'All Day' To Persuade Europe To Cut Russia Off From Swift

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  • And to delay it long enough that the oligarchs can shift their money around to someplace where the sanctions can't get to it and where it can't be seized. Then when all of this blows over in a few months and Russia has safely absconded with the Ukraine they'll move their money back in.

    Russian money spends as good as anybody else's and nobody wants to risk pissing off Russian investors. So we're not going to seize anybody's property and we're going to make sure they can safely protect it while pretending
    • There is an old saying, "the Capitalist will sell us the rope with which we will hang them."

      It applies here. The naked greed for money will be the world's undoing.

    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      nobody wants to risk pissing off Russian investors

      There's a lot of Western money invested in Russia. They have to get paid as well.

    • ... the oligarchs can shift their money around to someplace where the sanctions can't get to it and where it can't be seized.

      Like cryptocurrencies, where it's sure to be safe... Oh, wait... :-)

      Maybe they could buy properties? I hear there's a bridge in Ukraine... Oh, wait...

      In a related thought, someone needs to sink/ground Putin's £73.2M mega yacht -- you know, for funzies.

    • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

      by DarkOx ( 621550 )

      blah blah America sucks blah - typical comment of yours.

      You know America has been mostly in favor of cutting off SWIFT access. Its Germany and some of the other EU NATO states that have been pushing back with bullshit arguments like we need to hold something back to hit them with later... When really its about their being able to but dollar denominated Russian gas and oil!

      Our so called allies that have been powering their economies on Russian fuel and enriching Putin's Russia all this time have left Ukraine

      • Wow! So how's your career in international diplomacy going?
      • ignoring the fact that Biden is blocking a cut to Swift right now or that Europe has known invasion was coming since 2014 and did fuck all, my point isn't that it's not going to happen, my entire point is that it will happen after it no longer affects the people who matter.

        The ruling class take care of each other no matter what. It's a big club, and you ain't in it.
        • ignoring the fact that Biden is blocking a cut to Swift right now

          Incorrect. The current administration was outvoted regarding denying the Russians access to the SWIFTnet.
          Germany is currently spearheading the blocking of that, and no party can unilaterally do it.

    • Nah, they'll just switch to IBAN. SWIFT's outdated anyway.
      • IBAN and SWIFT are not competing things that do the same thing.
      • Nah, they'll just switch to IBAN. SWIFT's outdated anyway.

        Everything in that statement is completely wrong. This article explains quite well what SWIFT is https://edition.cnn.com/2022/0... [cnn.com] The alternatives are the Russian SPFS and the Chinese CIPS (how viable they are the article doesn't really tell and I haven't looked in to it).

        • by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

          Technologically speaking SWIFT is pretty outdated. They're still using XML.

          The fact that there are at least 2 potential alternatives is probably why they haven't blocked Russia from SWIFT yet. Enough countries trade with Russia or depend on Russian exports that one of them would quickly grow to become a serious competitor. They might still do it to send a message but at this point the only thing that will actually stop Russia is military intervention.

          • Technologically speaking SWIFT is pretty outdated. They're still using XML.

            What? Coming from someone who knows nothing about the technical details of SWIFT, what does XML have to do with it? Would you feel better if they were using JSON or something?

        • The point is they'll have plenty of incentive to - and thus will - quickly become viable if Russians are cut off from SWIFT.

    • oligarchs can shift their money around

      Since the invasion, Russia's currency (Ruble) has apparently crashed to its lowest point against the dollar *ever* and their stock market crashed, so they could just park their money in Rubles and/or Russian stocks that have crashed, wait for the inevitable rebound and make a fortune. From Russian Market Rout Wipes $200 Billion From Stocks; Bonds Dive [bloomberg.com]:

      Russian assets nosedived as military attacks across Ukraine prompted emergency central bank action and additional sanctions from the U.S., wiping out almost $200 billion in stock-market value and roughly a third of the sovereign debt’s value.

      The ruble sank to a record low, the cost of insuring Russian debt against default soared to the highest since 2009, and stocks ended the main trading session down 33% -- their biggest-ever retreat. The Bank of Russia said it will intervene in the foreign exchange market for the first time in years and take measures to tame volatility.

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Sad as it is, this is pretty much what is going on. Although I think they all have already shifted their money and did it last week. It is not like they did not have ample warning. So cutting them out from SWIFT now is completely bogus and will only hit small folk that had nothing to do with this mess. As usual.

      The sad thing is that Europe and its Eastern part could really have grown slowly together over time. Putin now has made that impossible for a long, long time and a lot of people are going to suffer a

  • The biggest export ever!
    That will show them.

  • Who Gives a Shit (Score:2, Insightful)

    by l0ungeb0y ( 442022 )
    The US, the UK and the EU stood idly by doing absolutely fuck all except for sternly saying "tssk tssk" while Putin telegraphed his intentions for years to invade Ukraine, a Democratic Nation and place it under Authoritarian rule. IMO, Western Democracy is as good as dead. Watch as the EU falls to outright Authoritarian flavored Fascism as their citizens become outraged by the "dirty Ukrainian trash" refugees from a war that the US, UK and EU would have absolutely prevented if the Ukraine had more wealth. B
    • by DarkOx ( 621550 )

      Russia invaded Ukraine because the US and EU disarmed it. If they still had Nukes this would not be happening either.

      The take away here is sadly is if are not a nuclear power you are not a power and your territorial integrity is not certain!

      Its going to make the anti-proliferation argument damn near impossible to sell the public's of places like Iran and DPRK now.

      Peace is bought with the point of the spear, always has been, always will be.

    • The US and UK DID NOT stand idly by, we actively flamed the fires and fear with publicly announced intentions to move NATO closer to Russia's borders despite years of warnings of what the response would be to such a move.
      • by nagora ( 177841 )

        The US and UK DID NOT stand idly by, we actively flamed the fires and fear with publicly announced intentions to move NATO closer to Russia's borders despite years of warnings of what the response would be to such a move.

        It is however the case that NATO was already sharing borders with Russia, so it's not that simple.

        It's all about Crimea.

        • It has nothing to do with Crimea, they already had that. the current border encroachments of NATO had already pissed off Russia big time but at least they were small countries. If Ukraine went to NATO it would be the equivalent of the Cuban Missile crisis for Russia with the US and allies able to put large military bases right on Russian borders in easy striking distance to all the major cities. I don't condone what Russia have done here, it was belligerent and evil, but lets not pretend it was unprovoked,
          • Which major cities could be attacked from a major military base in Ukraine? Moscow? Seems closer to Latvia. I'm not seeing any that are significantly closer to Ukraine than from existing NATO countries.

            Even setting that aside, it ignores the fact that NATO is a defensive alliance. That's proved by the fact that, so far, NATO has upheld that promise and not come to the aid of Ukraine.

      • NATO just doesnt draft member nations, they have to want to be involved and meet certain conditions. Finland, Ireland and Sweden have chosen not to even though they would easily be admitted.

        Why did Latvia, Romania, Poland, Estonia, Lithuania want to be part of NATO?

      • by dgatwood ( 11270 ) on Friday February 25, 2022 @06:19PM (#62304765) Homepage Journal

        The US and UK DID NOT stand idly by, we actively flamed the fires and fear with publicly announced intentions to move NATO closer to Russia's borders despite years of warnings of what the response would be to such a move.

        Ukraine wanted to join NATO out of fear that Russia would attack it. When NATO refused to outright reject Ukraine without any consideration, Russia attacked Ukraine. Russia was the aggressor in every sense of the word, not NATO.

        In fact, NATO has never been an aggressor. A country that does not intend to attack its neighbors has nothing to fear from NATO. In its entire history, NATO has engaged in exactly zero non-retaliatory actions other than peacekeeping missions at the request of the host country's lawful government.

        What rational reason, then, could Putin have for trying to keep Ukraine out of NATO, or for that matter, for Russia not joining NATO? His actions seem utterly irrational unless we assume that Putin has always intended to eventually take over Ukraine as a step towards reunifying the former Soviet Union.

        Once you assume that Putin is an autocrat with dreams of world domination, trying to take over the continent one country at a time until he conquers everything, suddenly his behavior makes sense. And that is why this aggression cannot be tolerated. We've seen this pattern at least twice before in recent memory, and it never ends well. But this time, the aggressor has nukes. Stopping him early, and with sound resolve is the only hope for peace.

        • Bullshit. Libya and War on Kosovo.

        • In fact, NATO has never been an aggressor. A country that does not intend to attack its neighbors has nothing to fear from NATO. In its entire history, NATO has engaged in exactly zero non-retaliatory actions other than peacekeeping missions at the request of the host country's lawful government.

          Oh, really? Or NATO just labeled their attacks [wikipedia.org] as peacekeeping? Where was Yugoslavia's sovereign rights in 1999?

          And does Cuba [wikipedia.org] have any rights determining whom they befriended with?

    • by ljw1004 ( 764174 )

      The US, the UK and the EU stood idly by doing absolutely fuck all except for sternly saying "tssk tssk" while Putin telegraphed his intentions for years to invade Ukraine

      I don't think sanctions should be imposed for "telegraphing intentions" (i.e. signaling what your intentions are but not stating them openly nor performing them). That leaves too much room for interpretation.

      • The US, the UK and the EU stood idly by doing absolutely fuck all except for sternly saying "tssk tssk" while Putin telegraphed his intentions for years to invade Ukraine

        I don't think sanctions should be imposed for "telegraphing intentions" (i.e. signaling what your intentions are but not stating them openly nor performing them). That leaves too much room for interpretation.

        Oh absolutely. No sanctions. What should have happened however is NATO announcing that if Putin crosses Ukrainian border he will meet NATO forces in battle - and the movement of enough NATO troops to Ukraine to be credible in that threat.

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      But I don't like Polonium.

      Don't worry. They will not do that one again. Far too easy to attribute and frankly low amateur level. The ones deciding on this did apparently not know that radio-isotopes have fingerprints. Fuckups.

  • The more politically savvy of the British public have known for a couple of generations that you can't take the Tories at their word, least of all the current clown cabinet. They're corrupt as f**k & only looking out for their own interests. Don't believe them unless it's in the form of a legally binding document & the language isn't in that garbled nonsense they spout out in press conferences.
    • by Jahta ( 1141213 )

      The more politically savvy of the British public have known for a couple of generations that you can't take the Tories at their word, least of all the current clown cabinet. They're corrupt as f**k & only looking out for their own interests. Don't believe them unless it's in the form of a legally binding document & the language isn't in that garbled nonsense they spout out in press conferences.

      Exactly this. Some of the biggest donors to the Tory party are wealthy Russians. This is just more of the usual "do as I say, and not as I do" from Boris Johnson and his entourage.

  • while Ukrainians die....

  • Car less sundays, rolling blackouts and domestic gas curtailment coming?

    People with islanding battery storage are going to be sitting pretty.

  • I'd say cut them tyrants all off - please include Justin too.

    Please be careful however not to include too many countries or they may arrange for their own and live well.

  • ... we shall work two days!!
  • ...that ultimately, for all the hand-wringing and sympathy, Ukraine is fucked because nobody ACTUALLY cares enough to sacrifice anything, even trivial, to really matter.

    NASA isn't breaking ties to the Russian space agency.
    The US isn't pursuing its many methods of truly freezing assets and wealth of Russian oligarchs nor even specifically Putin, worldwide.
    Nobody is ejecting Russian ambassadors or closing consulates. Nordstream 2 isn't cancelled, merely "suspended".

    Putin gauged the west exactly right, as he

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