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Radiation Spike at Chernobyl's Nuclear Power Plant Seized by Russian Forces (bbc.com) 128

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
A radiation spike has been recorded near Chernobyl's nuclear power plant which has been seized by Russian forces, monitoring data shows. BBC: Invading Russian troops took control of the plant - the site of the world's worst nuclear disaster in 1986 - on Thursday, Ukraine said. Radiation levels increased about 20-fold on Thursday, monitoring stations there reported. But experts say another major nuclear disaster there is "extremely unlikely." The rise was caused by heavy military vehicles stirring contaminated soil in the 4,000-sq-km (2,485 sq-mile) exclusion zone surrounding the abandoned plant, Ukraine's State Nuclear Regulatory Inspectorate reported. The biggest spike was recorded close to the damaged reactor. Radiation levels are continuously monitored there -- measured as a dose that you would receive per hour in a location. Close to the reactor, you would normally receive a dose of about three units -- called microsieverts -- every hour. But on Thursday, that jumped to 65 microSv/hrs -- about five times more than you would get on one transatlantic flight.
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Radiation Spike at Chernobyl's Nuclear Power Plant Seized by Russian Forces More

Radiation Spike at Chernobyl's Nuclear Power Plant Seized by Russian Forces

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  • Before the world stands up to Putin?
    An invasion of Latvia? Poland? Germany perhaps?
    Or maybe they blow the lid off the Chernobyl reactor and let chaos fly. Maybe environmental damage will be enough to prompt action. Lord knows the world seems to be fixated on the environment these days.

    • Putin is you typical bully picking on the weak. If the baltics weren't in NATO he'd have invaded them years ago but he daren't so he picked on georgia now Ukraine. However back a bully into a corner and like a rat he will fight back and if what you mean by standing up to putin is NATO using weapons against him then I hope you're ready for your town to disappear in a mushroom cloud.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Rei ( 128717 )

        While he'll certainly hit the "easy" targets first, I don't at all write off an eventual assault on the Baltics. Putin has supported an "escalate to deescalate" nuclear weapons policy, which argues for using tactical nuclear weapons against military installations in situations where Russia feels outgunned by conventional weapons, while making clear that it's avoiding touching its strategic nuclear stockpile unless the west does the same or he feels the presence of the state itself is under threat.

        So say tha

        • What would the west do?

          Invoke Article 5 of the Washington Treaty. Something it's been reading to do since 2014. [nato.int]

          Since Russiaâ(TM)s illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014 and the rise of security challenges from the south, including brutal attacks by ISIL and other terrorist groups across several continents, NATO has implemented the biggest increase in collective defence since the Cold War.
          For instance, it has tripled the size of the NATO Response Force, established a 5,000-strong Spearhead Force and deployed multinational battlegroups in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland.
          NATO has also increased its presence in the southeast of the Alliance, centred on a multinational brigade in Romania.
          The Alliance has further stepped up air policing over the Baltic and Black Sea areas and continues to develop key military capabilities, such as Joint Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance.
          At the Warsaw Summit in July 2016, Allies recognised cyber defence as a new operational domain, to enable better protection of networks, missions and operations; and at the meeting of foreign ministers in November 2019, Allies agreed to recognise space as a new operational domain to "allow NATO planners to make requests for Allies to provide capabilities and services, such as hours of satellite communications."

          Following Russia's unjustified and unprovoked attack on Ukraine, February 2022, and in line with its defensive planning to protect all Allies, NATO is taking additional steps to further strengthen deterrence and defence across the Alliance.

          Unlike Vovochka's posturing, NATO doesn't fuck around with "military exercises" when missiles start flying.

        • Since the cold war started people have speculated what the west would do in the face of various Soviet scenarios... a conventional assault, a limited nuclear hit, etc etc. This is not a new fear or a new speculation. Apparently the fear of reprisal was enough to stop the Soviets all those years.

      • You forgot Chechnya. But that's what the propagandists want you to do, so that's alright then.

        No, people aren't going to do fuck all, because Russia has nukes.

        Corollary : The probability of DPRK, Pakistan, India, and Israel ever believing other countries' assurances of their safety and giving up their nukes has gone from it's present level (indistinguishable from zero) to a lower level. Similarly, the probability of Iran (and other aspirant nuclear powers) decelerating (let alone stopping) their weapon

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by XXongo ( 3986865 )
      I would be interested in a good plan for what you think we, 10000 miles away, actually could do.

      And that's serious, not sarcastic: I have no idea what a constructive choice of action would be. All the choices I see are bad.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by wiggles ( 30088 )

        And Putin knows this. He's playing chess here, and he has the west mated.

        • Re:What's it going to take (Score:5, Insightful)

          by zeeky boogy doog ( 8381659 ) on Friday February 25, 2022 @03:49PM (#62304191)
          Don't be so sure.

          The oligarchs have been demanding that Putin get the sanctions that were put on them starting with his attack on Georgia released for a long time. That's why all of their approaches to Trump were about sanctions relief. That's why Trump tried to drop the sanctions before heroes at the state department stopped him. I suspect that what this is, is Putin attempting to protect himself with mindless jingoism such that the leaders of the crime syndicate known as Russia don't try to, ah, "vote him off the governing board."

          If that's true, then based on reports out of both Russia and Ukraine he's about to "lose his job" because it ain't fuckin' working. Apparently he's so delusional he actually thought he was going to march into Ukraine and triumphantly be greeted as a liberator. I mean literal shades of Cheney here.

          Even if that's not the case, it is still hysterical how self-defeating his delusions are. As if Ukraine isn't going to join NATO after this bullshit. Every other European nation unfortunate enough to share a border with him is now reading "How to join NATO ASAP for Dummies" too.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by DarkOx ( 621550 )

            You NATO does not just allow anyone who wants to sign up to join right?

            Did you notice how all our forces LEFT Ukraine ahead of this. That was to prevent NATO from being obligated to join the fighting.

            Unless this goes so badly for Russia, like it triggers a second domestic collapse, like 1988-89 (Which it honestly could), no way is NATO going admit anyone already on Putin's likely short list for invasion. NATO members don't want a nuclear war - which is what that would cause!

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by hey! ( 33014 )

              The object of a war is to win the war, not necessarily take part in battles. So it absolutely makes sense to get your forces out of Ukraine unless you're willing to commit enough forces to win the war through fighting battles. As for Russia collapsing, I think that *is* the strategy. Russia's been on the brink of collapse for years. The gamble is that (a) enough Russians will rally around the flag to keep the country politically stable and (b) the rest of Europe remains sufficiently divided that they c

              • Russia's economy grew from 2000-2014 with disposable income increasing 160% in real terms. After a 2015 recession it started growing again. In January 2016, Bloomberg rated Russia's economy as the 12th most innovative in the world, up from 14th in January 2015 and 18th in January 2014. Russia has the world's 15th highest patent application rate, the 8th highest concentration of high-tech public companies, such as internet and aerospace and the third highest graduation rate of scientists and engineers. Doesn

              • The object of a war is to accomplish a goal which cannot be achieved by other means. Achieving it is "winning". The person who started the war isn't going to have to die in it, after all.

          • As if Ukraine isn't going to join NATO after this bullshit.

            You're making some pre-emptive assumptions about the outcome here.

          • Even if that's not the case, it is still hysterical how self-defeating his delusions are. As if Ukraine isn't going to join NATO after this bullshit.

            If Ukraine is still in a position to request to join NATO after this, they won't need to. But it's rather unlikely they will be.

      • Even 10000 miles won't stop famine (Score:5, Informative)

        by realxmp ( 518717 ) on Friday February 25, 2022 @03:32PM (#62304135)

        I would be interested in a good plan for what you think we, 10000 miles away, actually could do.

        And that's serious, not sarcastic: I have no idea what a constructive choice of action would be. All the choices I see are bad.

        You're probably right, all choices are bad, unfortunately distance is not going to affect whether this affects you. Ukraine produces about 25% of the world's grain, and as we've learnt with every single stupid war in the past, war kills food production. The best thing the US could do is to sit back and make sure they have a good stockpile grain, etc to feed the world because frankly we are all going to need it and it'll probably run short after this mess. Famine was one of the factors that toppled the tsars and the USSR famine of 1947 plus the food insecurity after the USSR's fall is still in living memory.

    • A few days off (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Okian Warrior ( 537106 )

      Before the world stands up to Putin?
      An invasion of Latvia? Poland? Germany perhaps?
      Or maybe they blow the lid off the Chernobyl reactor and let chaos fly. Maybe environmental damage will be enough to prompt action. Lord knows the world seems to be fixated on the environment these days.

      Maybe if the rest of the world was concerned enough to take action we could join in.

      We're (USA) always the ones to step in and help out, and we're getting tired of endless wars and getting beat up because we stand between historical enemies trying to keep the peace.

      Maybe it's time to step back and let others take the point on this for awhile. We keep hearing about how EU nations and others (Norway, Canada, Israel, Australia, UK) are so much better than the US in so many ways... and we have some big local pr

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by hey! ( 33014 )

        We're (USA) always the ones to step in and help out, and we're getting tired of endless wars and getting beat up because we stand between historical enemies trying to keep the peace.

        Part of the reason for that is the same reason for Putin starting this war: ego. If you are President, you are literally called "the leader of the free world." If you're a cabinet secretary or a senator, you are a big wheel anywhere you go in the world.

        Honestly it would be healthy for the EU to step up and start doing things like fielding carrier strike groups and the like; economically they're almost as big as we are. But that will come with a massive downgrading of the US's international significance

      • Excellent writing.

        The super powers only care about wars that involve other super powers or energy resources.

        Once this war gets to 10,000 fatalities it can join the other 4 wars that have seen the same in the past year:
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

        The super powers don't care about border wars in Africa.

        The real problem is that countries can't seem to view each other differently over time. Vietnam pulled this off. But the US/Russia thing is still, well, a thing. Reminds me of racism in America, and thi

    • Any Russian military takes one step onto Latvian or Poland soil without invitation, and all NATO countries respond. That's what Article V is about.

      Why do you think they went for Ukraine instead of the balkans that are weaker and smaller, and thus easier to conquer? NATO membership.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • And we'll let him because it's not going to be bad for business. At least not for more than a quarter or two. You and I will let him do that because sooner or later, heck sooner rather than later, we'll get distracted by life and we'll just want the economy to stabilize because we're living paycheck to paycheck and the cost of living is skyrocketing thanks to market consolidation. So nobody's going to stay focused on Putin taking over the old Russian States or even Poland. We are all too busy just surviving

    • An invasion of [...] Poland?

      Poland just delivered a convoy with ammunition. You can be sure that Russia will follow through in the retaliation they have promised.

      I would like to think an attack on a nation that is both an EU member and NATO member would trigger a harsher response. But just what that response might be, I don't know. In the end, Russia's aggressive actions on its neighbors only justifies expansion of NATO in recent years. Russia claims they feel that NATO is a threat, yet NATO never invaded them. Russia will be attackin

  • How'd you like to be a Russian soldier who's been ordered to hold onto the area around Chernobyl? Hope you've already had your kids, fella...

    • Re:Did they lose a lottery, or what? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by MachineShedFred ( 621896 ) on Friday February 25, 2022 @03:28PM (#62304111) Journal

      You're assuming that anyone told these conscripted soldiers where they are going, and what the dangers there are. I would assume they told them jack shit, and that they are merely holding a power station in the middle of wooded land. And 5 years from now when you have thyroid cancer, well that's tough rocks kid.

      • Enough with the nuclear hysteria.

        Assuming they don't sleep lying down on the grass, the radiation levels even in the area around Chernobyl NPP itself currently register single digit microSieverts per hour (except for whatever happened between Russian & Ukranian soldiers near the spent fuel area last night, which has locally raised the level to 65uSv/hr).

        5uSv/hr means 2Khr - 3 months - to get to 10mSv, which is still far below the whole-body dose at which any known negative effects happen to humans
        • Not exactly hysteria. There are experts here who understand what it means to inhale the dust being kicked-up around Chernobyl.

        • the radiation levels even in the area around Chernobyl NPP itself currently register single digit microSieverts per hour

          And? Free radiation in the air is not what makes the place dangerous. It's the actual contamination of everything you touch that is dangerous. Bonus points if you ingest something.

          • Well yeah... but thousands of tourists visit there, with no particular protective equipment. I wouldn't want to be camping there, or rolling around in the dirt, but just being there isn't particularly harmful.

            • Well yeah... but thousands of tourists visit there, with no particular protective equipment.

              Yeah. Except no, not at all. Tourists who visit there must be accompanied with a guide and are given protective equipment and careful safety induction.

        • Assuming they don't sleep lying down on the grass, the radiation levels even in the area around Chernobyl NPP itself currently register single digit microSieverts per hour

          Inhaling one hot particle can literally kill you, in a surprisingly short period of time if not treated, and in an extremely painful fashion. And the hot radioactive material spread around Chernobyl is extremely unevenly distributed. There are probably places where they could safely sleep lying in a meadow. There are other places where it's not safe to be in them at all.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by eth1 ( 94901 )

        You're assuming that anyone told these conscripted soldiers where they are going, and what the dangers there are. I would assume they told them jack shit, and that they are merely holding a power station in the middle of wooded land. And 5 years from now when you have thyroid cancer, well that's tough rocks kid.

        I seriously doubt that there wouldn't be at least a few soldiers in any unit able recognize the gigantic, unique, un-hideable containment structure at Chernobyl that positively identifies the site.

        • Does it matter at that point? They're already there, and if they leave against orders they get shot.

          It's not like they are being ASKED to go. They go because they're ordered to.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by PPH ( 736903 )

      I'm just surprised that the Ukrainians didn't put up exclusion zone signs [dreamstime.com] all over the country in the days leading up to the invasion.

    • I'm not sure they're really "holding it". Chernobyl is right on the border, and essentially is the easy way from Belarus into Ukraine. It's not a military base nor a civilian economic site, it has no purpose as a military target except for being along the road. Possibly it's just a temporary staging place, and they thought they'd have left it sooner? The info about what is actually going on there is sparse in the news; sometimes it seems like they just passed through on the way south. Words like "seize

      • but there was literally no people there to seize it from.

        That's not true. There are civilian staff and military guards. As far as the general tone of your post, you're correct. It's a worthless location. It's not heavily defended, and it has zero value except as a possible shield against counterattack (Presumably, nobody's going to start shelling the area)

  • Ironic punishment meted out, the zone radius is now increased by 5km.

  • Bad Summary (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Thelasko ( 1196535 ) on Friday February 25, 2022 @03:33PM (#62304137) Journal
    The summary is alarmist. The cause is explained in TFA:

    "The increased movement of people and vehicles in and around the Chernobyl zone will have kicked up radioactive dust that's on the ground," Prof Corkhill said.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by splutty ( 43475 )

      And the headline is incredibly click baity... The reactor has literally nothing to do with this, other than the fact it went kaboom decades ago.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tomp ( 4013 )

        The headline is clear and correct. Don't blame the headline for your unfounded assumptions, learn from them.

    • Re:Bad Summary (Score:4, Informative)

      by aitikin ( 909209 ) on Friday February 25, 2022 @04:09PM (#62304265)

      The summary is alarmist. The cause is explained in TFA:

      "The increased movement of people and vehicles in and around the Chernobyl zone will have kicked up radioactive dust that's on the ground," Prof Corkhill said.

      The summary addresses this as well:

      The rise was caused by heavy military vehicles stirring contaminated soil in the 4,000-sq-km (2,485 sq-mile) exclusion zone surrounding the abandoned plant, Ukraine's State Nuclear Regulatory Inspectorate reported.

      So I'm not sure it's fair to call it alarmist...

  • Rumor is that a Russian shell hit a nuclear waste storage site.

    There's so much bullshit "news" from both sides flying around, it's hard to tell.

    I was on duty in the NL when that thing blew up in '86.

    Rad counters were going nuts all over NATO.

  • Nuke Chernobyl from orbit - I mean it's already a no-man's land - after giving everyone fair warning. What could go wrong?

    Just wondering.

  • Good God! (Score:3)

    by Qwertie ( 797303 ) on Friday February 25, 2022 @04:33PM (#62304369) Homepage

    five times more than you would get on one transatlantic flight

    Good God! Those Russian soldiers are gonna have more cancer than a stewardess on her first week on the job!

    Wait a second, is this really the most pressing news story of the invasion of Ukraine? I mean, is it more valuable for Slashdot to publish two news stories about soldiers being in proximity to a nuclear sarcophagus, instead of, for example...

    • I don't know what kind of plane you fly on, but most normal flight attendants aren't inhaling and ingesting radionuclides that will stay inside them for years to decades. Gamma radiation from stratospheric flight is much less bad than basically eating a gamma emitter or (worse) an alpha or neutron source.
  • Theoretically turn that into the largest nuclear dirty bomb device on the planet?

    • You could do that by hitting any nuclear plant with a bunker buster, and you'd probably disperse a lot more material from a plant that was not only in operation, but on the surface. Most of Chernobyl's fuel is deep in a hole.

  • 65ÂSv/hr is actually worrisome, because the reading is actually in nSv/hr. 65,000nSv/hr is very close to 65,535, or the maximum of a 2-byte integer. I hope the sensors aren't reporting "off scale high", similar to the 3.6rad/hr problem in the Chernobyl movie.
    • And by ÂSv, I mean uSv or x 10^-9 Sieverts, but this site isn't formatting my comment correctly,

    • Yes I'm sure their geiger counters are using 2 byte integers, because nobody would ever need to measure more than 65 micro seiverts. (channeling a radioactive Bill Gates here).

  • It's possible that Russian forces inhabited Chernobyl in order to bring in outside materials that would cause a radiation spike, but be ascribed to the decommissioned plant.

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