The US Gets Some More Tuition-Free College Programs (msn.com) 70
U.S. states and municipalities are launching new programs covering the costs of college tuition — or expanding existing programs, reports the Washington Post:
At least seven tuition-free initiatives have publicly launched since November, according to the College Promise campaign, which advocates making the first two or more years of college free. The governors of Pennsylvania and Maine are pushing for new programs, while the University of Texas System Board of Regents recently approved a $300 million endowment to cover tuition for more students at its public institutions. College Promise programs, as tuition-free initiatives are commonly known, enjoy widespread support across the political spectrum. Forty-seven states and D.C. have at least one such program at the college, city or state level. There are 33 statewide programs that cover tuition at community colleges or universities and higher education, and experts say the number is likely to grow.
Critics of universal public college say the price tag is unsustainable. Opponents of tuition-free community college say too many of the schools have poor outcomes, with fewer than 40 percent of students earning a degree within six years. Advocates argue that could be remedied by providing more institutional dollars and financial aid to keep students on track....
A number of states have used federal pandemic funds to shore up College Promise programs. Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (D) used some of the state's allocation to create Futures for Frontliners, a scholarship for essential workers to attend community college. After the scholarship rolled out in 2020, about 100,000 people signed up, Whitmer said in an interview last year. Those who did not qualify were encouraged to apply for Michigan Reconnect, which covers community college tuition for residents 25 and older without a degree.
Critics of universal public college say the price tag is unsustainable. Opponents of tuition-free community college say too many of the schools have poor outcomes, with fewer than 40 percent of students earning a degree within six years. Advocates argue that could be remedied by providing more institutional dollars and financial aid to keep students on track....
A number of states have used federal pandemic funds to shore up College Promise programs. Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (D) used some of the state's allocation to create Futures for Frontliners, a scholarship for essential workers to attend community college. After the scholarship rolled out in 2020, about 100,000 people signed up, Whitmer said in an interview last year. Those who did not qualify were encouraged to apply for Michigan Reconnect, which covers community college tuition for residents 25 and older without a degree.
We the people.... (Score:1)
in order to form a more perfect union...
Thia is good, but... (Score:2)
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The fact that books are a necessary components of college but not just included in the tuition cost is a scam right? I am sure there are "reasons" for having such a system but for real, if it's something thats considered a requirement to have the class just fold the cost into the credit cost.
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training for a job title is one thing but creating an informed citizenry cannot be monetized. teaching people how to be citizens of the world cannot be monetized.
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Re: Thia is good, but... (Score:1)
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ban forced room and borad fees why pay more then (Score:2)
ban forced room and broad fees why pay more then in some case the cost of RENTING on your own to live with room mates and not have the dorm open year round?
If you want room mates then to can rent with them and save even more.
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Geez, can't you come up with something resembling an argument, not just word salad, you anti-vaxxer?
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But, it is the cost of books and frees that kill you, on most cases it tends to be at least 2x the tuition.
Back in the early 80's . . . some students at Princeton were so disgusted at the book prices at the University Store (U-Store) that a trip to New York City to Barnes&Noble saved a lot of money.
I wonder if that influenced Jeff Bezos while he was at Princeton.
Only the folks who cut their teeth programming in von Neumann hole would know . . .
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Re: Thia is good, but... (Score:2)
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[disclaimer: I am a college teacher at a large Mexican university, UNAM]
That's something the teachers should work on correcting. While good textbooks are fundamental, there are often cheaper or free options. And even if not, writing your own is a great way to advance your career and get more recognized (given, of course, it is of good quality).
In 2015, I published with my university a book for teaching Operating Systems (https://sistop.org/). It is freely downloadable (and very cheaply bought); I know my st
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That's something the teachers should work on correcting. While good textbooks are fundamental, there are often cheaper or free options. And even if not, writing your own is a great way to advance your career and get more recognized (given, of course, it is of good quality).
Strange. I teach CS in a state university in the US. And writing your own textbook is one of the worst thing you can do for your career if you are a tenure track professor. Most US universities do not value pedagogical contribution fairly.
I'd love for the culture to change in the US. And I am pushing in my local university. But here writing a textbook is virtually a career killer unless you are already very senior.
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Re: Thia is good, but... (Score:2)
I just put a kid through college (Score:2)
The bigger concern is that room and board are extremely expensive and the kind of jobs the college kid can get and keep while keeping up with school work pay abou
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This is good, but many state colleges here you can get free tuition with good grades. But, it is the cost of books and frees that kill you, on most cases it tends to be at least 2x the tuition.
Which school has books and fees which are double their tuition? Is there even one? If you include room & board I could see that being possible for colleges in major cities. But for most state colleges tuition will cost in the neighborhood of 40% of college costs when room & board are included.
really? (Score:2)
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"books are a necessary components of college" most book costs/rules are a scam! Run by the colleges, publishers and professors! Always has been!
Actually, I don't think professors get kick back on textbook anywhere in STEM. I teach CS at a state university. I don't receive any kind of perks for using expensive textbooks.
I pick the textbooks I like for the class. At the moment all the classes I teach use textbooks that are available as PDFs through the university library so the students don't have to pay anything.
There is currently a push for interactive online textbook (xybooks, rephactor, etc.) that are about $40 a year. And my collegaue pick them
community colleges credits need forced transfer! (Score:2)
community colleges credits need forced transfer!
Or even an law saying that if you have an 2 year degree then you can start at an 4 year program at year 2 or later.
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community colleges credits need forced transfer!
Or even an law saying that if you have an 2 year degree then you can start at an 4 year program at year 2 or later.
In the US, "starting at year 2 or later" often does not make sense because program requirement are organized in courses and not in years.
In most state, there are state wide agreement on course transfers. Though these agreements are a problem in CS. A university can not change the way it teaches CS without getting the entire state to change how CS is being taught because otherwise transfer students get screwed.
The way we teach CS at the moment is medieval, we still teach CS like it is 1975. The CSed communit
Hat tip to PJ O'Rourke (Score:3)
If you think college is expensive now, just wait until it's free.
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This sounds like somebody who is completely ignorant of history. For a large chunk of American history, community college actually *was* free, except for room and board. Right up until the 70's and 80's.
Much like those who think Liberal Arts degrees don't include math and science. This is the product of brainwashing. Historically the only thing that *wasn't* a liberal arts degree, (meaning, "many arts") was physicians and lawyers. AKA the classic Roman Curriculum.
Now that you've been spanked for your ignora
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There is a big difference between the price of something, and its cost.
Politicians are happy to reduce the price of something (tuition, healthcare, internet, food), but don't give a damn about the cost. And the cost inevitably rises and eventually falls on all of us.
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It often surprises me how expensive education can be in your country. Mexico, where I live, has many good, large public universities; I teach at UNAM, which has campii in different states, offers ~115 different careers, and is ranked clearly 1st in the country. I did my MSc at IPN, which would be between 2nd and 4th nationally, also a public university. Am currently pursuing an PhD at UNAM.
Tuitions are free at UNAM, and very-very-cheap at IPN (~US$50 per semester when I was there in 2015-2018). For all qual
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in the US, that ratio would be about 4:6. Possibly do-able but not nearly as easy.
Not trying to be snarky in any way. Just pointing out some economics. Countries with low college
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Not trying to be snarky in any way. Just pointing out some economics. Countries with low college attendance rates can very easily support the few who do. Countries that have a 40% college graduation rate find it much harder to subsidize. 6 taxpayers for every 4 students.
If anything, it would be harder to justify the public spending when college attendance is low because a smaller percentage of the population is gaining direct benefit from the spending. College attendance rate has no impact on whether society can afford public vs private college funding, it just shifts where the funding is coming from. Society as a whole is paying the same. And considering state and federal governments would have more power to control spending than your average college student, total spendi
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That's interesting, and true from a certain angle. However, you should also read it from a different angle: the society will gain much more from adults that have a professional degree. It's not only the number of taxpayers that fund the learning of 18-to-25-year-olds, but it will get thtem a clear return of investment. A more developed society will not see so much quality change over this (because their markets are in a way saturated already with professionals), but it can make quite an impact in our societ
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I know the figures for UNAM, which is one of the largest universities in the world (>350,000 students). It surely is massive, but it is by no means enough for the size of this country; not even considering all public universities we have enough places to cover the demand for professional studies. Only around one tenth of the people who apply for UNAM are accepted after the placement exam. That is not "happy numbers" (it would be great if that 90% rejects found a place to further improve their level and h
40% drop out (Score:2)
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It is such a bad idea to equate "good outcomes" with "a high percentage of students get a degree"! We should stop doing this! Giving out degrees is not a mark of "good outcomes" and if you equate the two, then university administrations will put the pressure on faculty (tenured, non-tenured, and adjuncts) to graduate more students. The only way the faculty can do that in most cases is simply by passing more student regardless of what they know. This is already happening and that will backfire on us eventual
Re: 40% drop out (Score:2)
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For that reason, student loans shouldn't depend on credit ratings. Federal loans don't, but private ones do.
Unfortunately, we've been conditioned to avoid debt, even when it's used to invest in our education. I tried to work my way through school so I could graduate debt-free, but working part time was counterproductive because it meant I was taking difficult classes with an older brain that was less capable of learning new things.
I know people who regret taking out student loans because they didn't finish
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For that reason, student loans shouldn't depend on credit ratings. Federal loans don't, but private ones do.
This is unlikely to change because private student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy. This was difficult to do in the past, but recent rulings have made it more clear that private student loans are dischargeable in bankruptcy. The only reason you can get federal student loans without credit and verifiable existing income is because you cannot discharge them in bankruptcy, so don't expect private loans to stop requiring credit checks and cosigners any time soon.
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Really, the only "poverty trap" I see is the one caused by the student debt. Something that only exists because this isn't the first time the government has stepped in to "
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this isn't the first time the government has stepped in to "make college more affordable". Sadly, it looks like it won't be the last time government makes something heinously more expensive in the attempt to make it cheaper.
I am not aware of many if any attempts of the federal government to make college cheaper. They attempt to make it more accessible, but the goal there is to allow more students to attend college and not to reduce the total spending on post-secondary education. I cannot remember any significant efforts, or especially any bills signed, where the goal was reducing spending on post-secondary education. Spending on all education, preK through post-secondary, has risen significantly over the past 50 years (only dr
College is Scam (Score:2)
Most jobs do not require a college degree. Right now it is only a requirement to get past the HR drone filtering resumes and her/his job also didn't require a degree. Even if college tuition and books were free it still costs you 4 or 5 years of your life. 60 years ago when only a few people had college degrees a college degree was a signal that you were good and companies would seek college grads. We need to make askin
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Red and blue and their spending (Score:2)
And, there's no stronger appreciation for that which has to be worked for.
Maybe⦠(Score:1)
Skin in the game (Score:2)
Wealth redistribution at its finest.
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There is abuse and waste everywhere. The question is whether the cost outweighs the benefits. If you look at individual cases, you will see waste and abuse on some, and benefits on other.
But to make policy decisions, you need to look at the society as a whole and ask whether it is worth it. Outcome of education is likely shaped like individual productivity, it is power law shaped. If you get one more Bezos, or one more Musk, the boost to your economy will compensate for millions completely wasted tuition pa
An idea guaranteed to backfire (Score:2)
So, use taxpayer dollars to help people performing essential duties find different jobs? Who will do those essential jobs once the current workers have been trained to do other things? Who will want to fill them now that they've basically been told those aren't jobs people should keep?
I have mixed feelings about free college tuition (Score:1)