Biden Bans Imports of All Russian Fossil Fuels Amid Broad Bipartisan Support (arstechnica.com) 228
An anonymous reader shares a report: President Joe Biden announced today that the US will ban imports of Russian oil, natural gas, and coal. The UK will follow suit, according to a Politico report, phasing out Russian oil and gas purchases over the next several months. The coordinated moves will add further pressure to Putin's regime after he ordered the invasion of Ukraine. Russian crude oil and related products made up about 8 percent of US imports last year, while the UK imports about a third of its oil and 5 percent of its gas from the country. "Today I am announcing the United States is targeting the main artery of Russia's economy. We're banning all imports of Russian oil and gas and energy," Biden said today. "That means Russian oil will no longer be acceptable at US ports, and the American people will deal another powerful blow to Putin's war machine."
It won't really matter (Score:3)
Probably good news for the oil producing states in the US though since our allies are going to have to buy from someone else now.
Re: It won't really matter (Score:2)
China will buy Russian oil, at perhaps 25% the market rate. What is Russia going to do, sell it somewhere else?
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China will buy Russian oil, at perhaps 25% the market rate. What is Russia going to do, sell it somewhere else?
If you're in Control of supply, you don't worry about what your cunt-sumers are demanding.
If you're REALLY in Control of supply, then Fuck You, That's Why.
The world, will soon see what the true impact is, lacking Russian oil. I kind of doubt it will be as "lame", as you assume it will be.
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It's a global market. If we're not buying, someone else is. So Russia sells to China at a discount, and the oil that China was buying at market rate, gets sold to someone else that used to buy Russian oil at market rate.
China gets a boost, Russia takes a hit but keeps selling, and everyone else is exactly the same.
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Tell you what. Prove that, from your armchair.
Then, I'll begin to believe it. Until then, you're no better than those selling the "current" value of oil.
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[switching to my Econ professor hat . . .]
>It's a global market. If we're not buying, someone else is.
in normal situations, yes, that would be the case for a commodity.
We are seeing a behavior now, though, in which folks are refusing to buy Russian oil.
It is possible (but I would say unlikely) that there could be enough of that elsewhere that Russia *could* be stuck with unsold oil.
Free Europe is gritting its teeth and buying Russian oil & gas because it's winter. *Increasing* the amount they buy mi
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The world, will soon see what the true impact is, lacking Russian oil. I kind of doubt it will be as "lame", as you assume it will be.
In the short term it will be difficult. In the long term once Russia loses western customers they won't be coming back now that we see the risk. We are not going through the effort and pain of getting rid of them just so we can do it over again one day. Depending on them for anything is now a hard learned lesson in failure.
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Well, let's be realistic with your perspective. For once.
You don't have a fucking clue as to what will happen next. Just like the rest of us.
Greed N. Corruption, can be predictable. To an extent.
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Well, let's be realistic with your perspective. For once.
I think the free world is just beginning to learn how much power they have even without the need for nuclear weapons or any military action at all. I look forward to us exercising it more and more in the future.
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Well, let's be realistic with your perspective. For once.
I think the free world is just beginning to learn how much power they have even without the need for nuclear weapons or any military action at all. I look forward to us exercising it more and more in the future.
Gee, that's nice.
I think the "free" world, is just as stupid and ignorant as the rest of human history has proven. Greed doesn't give a fuck, what you look forward to.
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Russia might be able to do that for a short period of time, but they cannot sustain it indefinitely. Their problem is they need foreign currency which means they need to sell commodities as that is their primary export. Further, they need to sell them to countries that are able to buy them-- not impacted by the sanctions or SWIFT block.
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Russia might be able to do that for a short period of time, but they cannot sustain it indefinitely.
Well, right now it would seem that they don't give a shit, about your "indefinitely".
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China will buy Russian oil, at perhaps 25% the market rate. What is Russia going to do, sell it somewhere else?
Yeah, they will sell it somewhere else, seeing as the US is evidently doing this unilaterally (as of last check) so they'll continue to sell into Europe (which, IIRC, is their biggest buyer). This seems to be a largely symbolic gesture.
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It matters; the less freedom in the oil market place means the more opportunity to for the cartels to take advantage. Russia is nominally an important counter weight to OPEC; that for US customers and some of the EU now no longer exists...
If you think you won't feel this at the pump and elsewhere you are wrong. If you think its just western oil and gas companies gouging you're a dope.
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From what I've read, the pipelines from Russia to China are already operating at max capacity. They may WANT to buy it at a hefty discount -- hell, Shell was getting 25% off -- but they may not have a way to take delivery in any capacity.
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Tankers still exist, and Russia has those nice port cities in Crimea for exporting to the west. Also the Baltic Sea, because Kaliningrad doesn't ice during the winter according to Wikipedia.
It's not as cheap as a pipeline, but still happens on the regular. That's how the US gets all that middle east oil, after all.
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They don't own most of the tankers, they contract out for delivery, like everyone else. And very, very few people will deal with them now. There are going to be serious capacity issues.
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Re: It won't really matter (Score:2)
Re: It won't really matter (Score:2)
If that happens, which I doubt since a lot of others need oil too, Russia might end up getting owned by the Chinese. Which seems like the second best scenario for Russia and the world, outside of a Putin being somehow removed by coup or other means.
Anyway, the way the world is going it looks like nuclear war is inevitable at some point this century. And it is not going to be pretty, it is not going to be good. And it is going to be terrible dystopia for the survivors, if any.
It seems the only solution for h
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The alternative available is Saudi Arabia and friends pumping out more oil. They could easily do that - they have plenty of oil in the ground and the capacity to ramp up production. But I'm not sure they would want to and I don't know if we can pressure them behind the scenes enough to get them to do so. That wouldn't necessarily stop China from buying Russia's oil, but it would ease any price pressures and make Russia sel
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High oil prices translate to high food prices. OPEC nations may have all the oil, but they need food. Gas is used to make fertilizer, so if gas goes up so does fertilizer, which then increase the cost of the food. Not to mention the transportation cost go up as well.
They have a higher revenue but their cost go up as well. No clue on break points but high gas and oil prices don't just exist in a vacuum.
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This isn't going to matter. China will end up buying it
Even China can only buy so much. Not only that, there is the little matter of storage. If you buy a tanker of oil you better have a place to store it, otherwise that tanker's going to sit off your coast for a while. That in turn means that tanker can't be used to transport oil elsewhere which means a decrease in the availability to ship oil.
Most likely China will want a deep discount on the price of that oil which means Russia won't get as much as it
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China will buy all of Russia's oil *at a huge discount*. Eventually this creates a supply/demand balance and non-Russian oil goes to a lower price, likely around $100/bbl.
The more sanctions imposed on Russia, the more China benefits. Short-term that might not be all bad, but long-term it will create a lot of additional instability.
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Agreed. It is not like the world will be suddenly able to stop using oil.
You SURE about that? Everything I've been "educated" on from a former bartender, the world is going to END by 2030 if we don't stop using oil.
(No, I'm not some "crackpot". Yes, you voted for that leadership.)
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You SURE about that? Everything I've been "educated" on from a former bartender, the world is going to END by 2030 if we don't stop using oil.
Nobody is saying that the world will end by 2030 if we don't stop using oil.
To quote Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, "This is a technique of the GOP, to take dry humor + sarcasm literally and ‘fact check’ it,” Like the ‘world ending in 12 years’ thing, you’d have to have the social intelligence of a sea sponge to think it’s literal.
(No, I'm not some "crackpot".
Yes, from all indications you are a crackpot. Learn to get your science from actual science sources and stop listening to bartenders.
Yes, you voted for that leadership.)
Not su
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However, when it was Trump being sarcastic, when he called Putin "smart", every Democrat in the country, and a lot of RINOs to boot, screamed bloody murder about it. They ignore sarcasm when it is in their interest to do so, and they scream about other people ignoring their sarcasm when they want to be sarcastic.
The unfortunate fact is that sarcasm is generally only effective in audible speech. It generally does not survive translation to the written word.
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>The unfortunate fact is that sarcasm is generally only effective in audible speech. It generally does not survive translation to the written word.
So true. And body language can add another level. Trump is good at making his spoken words both sarcastic and not sarcastic at the same time.
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To quote Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, "This is a technique of the GOP, to take dry humor + sarcasm literally and âfact checkâ(TM) it,â Like the âworld ending in 12 yearsâ(TM) thing, youâ(TM)d have to have the social intelligence of a sea sponge to think itâ(TM)s literal.
No, that's the left.
https://archive.fo/rkuvd [archive.fo]
FACT CHECK: At two inches each, a thousand burgers would not reach one mile high.
An entire article for an idiom. An article decrying the cost (a mere $3000, infinitesimal compared to the usual fare), worrying if it was enough food (it was), and looking down their noses at the whole thing (because it was fast food, which they actually enjoyed).
It's the LEFT that does this shit. And it's the left that accuses everyone else of doing the shit they're doing - from theft to rioting (or "insurrection") to sexism to racism to pedophilia to warmonge
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And I'm guessing ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Biden Bans Imports of All Russian Fossil Fuels Amid Broad Bipartisan Support
Republicans will probably still blame him for high fuel prices and claim their party would do/have done better ...
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and claim their party would do/have done better
Their party has done better. Oil was in the low $40s under Trump.
Own it. You're the party of energy poverty. This is what you've been wanting all along. Well now it's here. How is this a bad thing?
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False [cnn.com].
It's funny how some people believe everything Trump says, and then when he says he didn't say that, they believe that, too.
Over on the cult of Dusty YouTube channel (Score:2)
I am literally witnessing double think there. Two completely contradictory ideas held in person's brain at the same time without contradicting in their minds.
Re: And I'm guessing ... (Score:2)
Ah, rsilvergun and his two dozen sock puppet accounts - is there nothing in history you can't misinterpret? Gas prices were low under Trump because he shut down the country and crashed the economy. No one working + no one driving = cheap gas. Trump also dumped $7.8T into the economy, a spending spree beyond any president in history. Sure, it artificially goosed the stock market, but it diluted the dollar, expanded the debt,and led to the inflation we're seeing today. But, please, go back to your Trump
Re: And I'm guessing ... (Score:2)
Whew, how do you keep all those accounts straight? Obama added $8.6T to the debt over 8 years in office. Trump increased the debt by $7.8T over 4. If you don't understand how that impacts the overall economy, perhaps a high school economics class is in order (hint, it starts with an I and rhymes with ginflation). Unemployment went up under Trump, and there was lower gdp growth under Trump than the last 7 presidents. Doesn't sound like winning to me.
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Well, we had a pandemic and if you agree Trump was responsible for most of that, then he can take credit for the cheap gas that went with a lot fewer people driving.
But what did Trump do when it was cheap? He brokered a deal with OPEC, Russia, and Mexico to reduce production to RAISE prices! He explicitly thanked Vladimir Putin for helping save American energy jobs by raising the price of oil and gasoline.
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-helped-broker-large-oil-123446869.html [yahoo.com]
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Why blame in the first place? Can't political parties do something other than a blame game? Why not try proposing something positive instead maybe, present a plan, or do anything other than blame!
Kid: I hate broccoli, I won't eat this!
Mom: Well what do you want to eat?
Kid: Nothing, your cooking sucks!
Mom: You have to eat something...
Kid: No I don't!
Presidents have amazingly little control over gas prices, except in dictatorships where they directly control the market. The only solution in this case would
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Gas prices [eia.gov] rose under Bush in the lead-up to the great recession from about $1.40 per gallon to about $4.10.
They then tanked during the recession, but soon were back up to around $4.00.
Then they declined to under $2.00 per gallon at the end of Obama's administration.
During the Trump years they bounced around between $2.00 and $3.00. (So you were wrong about that)
They are rising now under Biden.
Almost
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Yeah probably. Trump wasn't really an involved president and he wasn't preparing to do anything that would reverse the effects of the pandemic
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Yes, yes I do. Presidents don't have control over gas prices.
The Bright Side (Score:2)
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The US was energy independent on election day (Score:2)
Is domestic oil [instapundit.com] the new ivermectin? Or will Biden say if everyone stops driving for 2 weeks we can flatten the curve.
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Oh geez, are you saying right wingers have been injecting gasoline? No wonder it's gone up!
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There are many reasons gas prices have gone up - refinery fires, general shipping/trucking shortages, Putin's war, general inflation, increasing demand. Government policies may
If Dubyah had done it after 9/11 ... (Score:2)
Who destroyed it? How was it destroyed?
Here's a modest proposal (Score:2)
How about government institute a moratorium on fuel taxes? You know, just until the crisis has passed. We all have to do our part.
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What exactly do you think that will do? Hint-- transfer the gas tax revenue to the oil companies. It is a supply and demand balancing act; at $6 gasoline I'm pretty sure people will ration their driving (and flying and consumption) to the point where supply and demand hit a balance.
Artificially lowering the price just means that you increase demand which then forces the price back up.
What's the problem? (Score:2)
I mean, leftists have been dreaming up ways to "...to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe" [wsj.com] for years now, plus various smug commenters have been saying that everyone just needs to get onto public transportation anyway. So why is the left suddenly crying about getting what they want?
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I know you're a professional troll, but your game is weak and so is that link.
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What I can say that that the epic shortage the west is about to experience in regards to gas and oil will lead to mass starvation.
You do realize that we only got 7% of our oil from Russia, right? Also, if we are that dependent on foreign oil then doesn't it make sense to move away from oil?
Even without battery backing, scaling up renewable energy sources could help the US drastically divest from oil dependency. The important piece of information is that fossil fuels can significantly scale up and scale down energy production which means when the sun isn't out you can scale them up. Displacing fossil fuel energy generation nationwid
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The US imports a lot of crude oil, along with some refined petroleum products.
The US exports a lot of refined products, along with some domestically extracted crude.
The US uses the imported crude in US refineries, along with some of US's domestic crude, and exports more barrels of refined product than it imports barrels of crude. So, the US actually makes money off of imported crude oil.
So, dependent on impor
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I said "The West" not the U.S.
Do you have any idea how much food the US produces? We could feed the entirety of "The West" if we needed to.
We decided not to do that decades ago when we stopped building nuclear plants at a rapid clip. All else is theater.
That's not true at all. Look, my assertion beats your assertion! You must feel like a fool!
scaling up renewable energy sources could ...could be impossible without extensive use of minerals that Russia and China mostly produce. Oops!
Silicon and aluminum? Silicon is taken from beaches and aluminum is produced damn near everywhere.
As for rare earths, this lesson was learned in 2010 which resulted in a global investment. We are not dependent on China for neodymium.
Your entire post is an "Oops!" if you ask anyone with actual knowledge of
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Speaking of "oops", you dumbass, do you have any idea how food is made? Here are some hints from people with actual knowledge of the issues.
Russia and China have imposed export restrictions on fertilizer. Both are, or were, big exporters of plant food. The decline in exports makes getting the vital nutrients harder across the globe. China and Russia account for 29% of world exports for nitrogen-based plant food. [forbes.com]
The move by China earlier this week to ban phosphate exports until at least June of next year pu [dtnpf.com]
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What I can say that that the epic shortage the west is about to experience in regards to gas and oil will lead to mass starvation. Not sure if that was preventable even with Russian oil, but it will probably be worse as a result.
Just noting from this article [forbes.com] (and others):
The United States received more of its imported gasoline from Russia in 2021 than from any other country, at 21%.
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That article is horrible misleading and you're reading the numbers wrong -- as that click bait article wants you to.
21% of the gasoline that the US imported came from Russia last year, yes. HOWEVER, the US imports gasoline only because we get a super cheap deal on it. Russia was selling it cut rate.
The US imported 14,000 bpd of finished gasoline from Russia in 2021, but EXPORTED 715,000 bpd to the rest of the world. We are the world's larges net exporter of gasoline and refined petroleum products -- by far.
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We are the world's larges net exporter of gasoline and refined petroleum products -- by far. We can stop importing cheap gasoline from Russia and absorb it without a hiccup, if we really wanted to.
Thanks, I knew that and was just posting the percentages of Russian oil/fuel imported, not diving deeper as you did.
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Wasnt' it just a couple of weeks ago there was a major article on how Forbes turned into the equivalent of PR Newswire, letting anyone "contribute"? Ugh.
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Wasn't it just a couple of weeks ago there was a major article on how Forbes turned into the equivalent of PR Newswire, letting anyone "contribute"? Ugh.
The percentages of oil/gasoline imported by the US noted in the Forbes article are also noted in many other articles, including one from the American Petroleum Institute, I just used it as it was the first one that popped up on Google. Regardless of their alleged submission standards, information there isn't automatically bad/suspect, but if people on /. are going to get cranked up about it, I'll be sure to reference other sources.
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Egypt and quite possibly other places will experience serious problems. That's not necessarily related to sanctions on Russia so
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This won't do shit.
The US buys a single-digit percentage of its oil from Russia. Now all the Congress critters can feel good that they've moved the public debate (or will at least claim to have), fuel prices will probably go up slightly (they've already been pricing this in for two weeks), and the world keep revolving. Russia says "oh no, now I have to sell a slight increment more to China and a little bit of a discounted rate" and continues financing their war crimes with oil revenue.
You'll notice that t
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What I can say that that the epic shortage the west is about to experience in regards to gas and oil will lead to mass starvation.
Yawn. All your points:
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We were not. As for petroleum, in 2020 the U.S. imported roughly 7.86 million barrels of petroleum per day. [eia.gov]
That is a bullshit talking point that the right loves to trot out, and it's absolutely fucking false.
Beau of the fifth column made a good point (Score:2)
This is been a long standing policy of America to extract resources from the rest of the world for a very long time but because we h
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Glass houses, stones, etc... do you know what "net" means?
The US is a net exporter, but is simultaneously a major importer. The reason for that is that the major refineries in the US were set up before the fracking boom and are designed to take heavy sulfurous oil, like what they pump up in Canada. Fracking in the US produces light oil, which can't easily be refined in such refineries, so the US sends its oil elsewhere to be refined
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You will not think it is funny when the Republicans take power and force you leftists back in your mothers basements for another two decades.
OK Putin
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Let's not forget that Ukraine might miss it's growing season. They are a major exporter of wheat, as is Russia. If these two countries are to busy fighting a war, it's going to drastically reduce the amount of wheat they grow and are able to export.
This next winter will be brutal.
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The US only imports like 4% of it's oil from Russia.
The only way this causes a spike is because of the commodities markets losing their minds for no reason, and it will be a short spike at that before the profit-taking begins and it comes right back down.
Just buy a jerry can and fill that up, it will be enough to get you past this speed bump.
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The US only imports like 4% of it's oil from Russia.
Close. The U.S. imported 3.5% of its oil needs from Russia [forbes.com] last year, the highest in two decades.
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The US only imports like 4% of it's oil from Russia.
The only way this causes a spike is because of the commodities markets losing their minds for no reason, and it will be a short spike at that before the profit-taking begins and it comes right back down.
Just buy a jerry can and fill that up, it will be enough to get you past this speed bump.
Unfortunately, the oil market is international. These are international companies that can (and do) sell their product everywhere.
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Exactly. Which means the US buys that 4% from someone else, and whoever didn't buy that 4% buys from Russia. Everyone still gets the oil they were going to buy. It's just a bullshit political shell game unless the EU also bans oil from Russia, and they can't.
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But the price gougers are slobbering all over themselves right now. I assure you, prices will climb steadily now. Any excuse will do.
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Capitalists don't need an excuse to raise prices. They charge what the market will bear.
If the supply of gasoline drops by 3%, that doesn't mean the price goes up by 3%. It means the price goes up enough so that people drive 3% less, which is a price increase of about 20%. That isn't "price gouging", it is just the nature of inflexible demand.
Disclaimer: I drive an EV.
Re: supply+demand (Score:4, Insightful)
So go buy a Tesla then.
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So go buy a Tesla then.
There is a seven month waiting list to buy a Tesla.
Re: supply+demand (Score:2)
Where I live the price of diesel is already above $10/gallon.
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Oil is fungible, mostly. If Russia sells its' oil anywhere, it will not affect global supply, so prices shouldn't go up. If Russia can't sell it's oil, Saudi Arabia could easily step up and produce more, if they want to. Price spikes could be short-lived, but markets may orchestrate conditions to keep prices high.
In any case, it's not completely theater; the price of Russia's oil has already droppe
Re:supply+demand (Score:5, Interesting)
If Russia can't sell it's oil, Saudi Arabia could easily step up and produce more, if they want to.
Huh, and here I thought we were oil independent, that we produce enough for ourselves. At least that's what we keep being told.
The real question is why, if we're oil independent, aren't the producers in Texas and Oklahoma and elsewhere stepping up and pumping more oil so prices go down. I mean, it's not like they'd keep production down so prices stay high, would they?
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We are in fact the largest oil/energy producing country in the world. The BBC has an article on their site about this, right now. The problem is oil is a global commodity and the US oil companies do not really care if USA or EU or Asia buy their product, so long as they get to sell it at the highest price possible.
So with Russia being the 3rd largest oil/gas producer, it has ripple effects throughout the global energy markets.
The only real good thing from a consumer standpoint about USA being energy indepen
Yes and no (Score:2)
Unregulated cartels suck. That includes the ones in your own borders
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Private industry is going to refuse to use it because they can make more money off of rising costs
That requires both illegal collusion and "honor among thieves" since a defector can maximize profit by selling more.
That was plausible when oil production was controlled by a few big companies, but the swing producers today are wildcat frackers.
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We are not, and never have been (at least in any amount of recent history that matters) oil independent. That is an often-repeated lie coming from the right that just wants to say shit to make the current administration look bad.
We imported ~7.9 million barrels of oil per day in 2020 [eia.gov], regardless of the horseshit lies coming from the right. It's one of their favorite lies which somehow doesn't get struck down immediately for some reason, but it's still a fucking lie. 60% of that comes from Canada and Mexi
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If most everyone refuses to buy from Russia, this will give China a great deal of leverage over them. Russia is not going to make more money this way and they will be under China's thumb.
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Fuck Putin.
Thanks for distilling the US government and people's attitude to Russia.
Re: fuck you all (Score:2)
It will never reach that amount. Saudi Arabia and others, including ourselves and Canada, can increase their production. There is too much competition in the oil business to enable prices going up 10x. Maybe 2x in a worst case scenario, not 10x. As oil price increases people will travel less and so the oil demand will drop, so there is the self limiting factor too. The high oil prices will increase investment in oil production and also green energy.
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Now transportation costs are up 50% in a week with more on the way. Our current administration will simply respond with, "Go buy an EV". Yeah, thanks. May I have some cake with that, please?
To be fair, it's not like this hasn't consistently been the same message since the last few times gas prices spiked as high in the past fifteen years. How many cars have you owned since 2008?
Nobody's saying you have to buy an EV, but if you buy another gas guzzler when oil goes back down, and then cry about it again when it goes back up... well, I'm going to give you the same look I am right now.
Re:Why only today? (Score:5, Interesting)
Your life is worse under the Democrats. That is undeniable.
I can deny it. Watch me:
You're wrong.
My life has markedly improved since January 20, 2021. I moved into a nicer home in a far nicer region of the country. My cars are paid off. I don't buy gasoline because they're both EVs. I have a new job that pays me a double-digit percentage more than I was making in 2020, where I'm also higher up in the organization with more ability to make the changes that are needed. I even lost about 20 pounds in the last year from nothing but dietary change and walking a bit more. My wife loves me, and has noticed that I have far less stress. My dog is better behaved because he's not a puppy anymore. And I just rebuilt my home theater, which makes me happy.
I'm not too happy about the tax bill I just paid, but nothing has changed about the tax code since Trump fucked around with it a couple years ago, so that's on him.
See? I denied it. And I backed it up with something besides emotional clap-trap and us-versus-them grandstanding.
Re:Why only today? (Score:4, Insightful)
One more thing: you do realize that even though you disagree with this administration, if they do good YOU do good, right?
Even though I fucking hated Trump, I wanted him to succeed, because that meant the whole country succeeded. I don't know why Trumpists can't grasp that simple reality.
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Thank you! I wish I had mod points. This is the most sensible thing I've heard in a long time, and an attitude that we desperately need cultivated. You are absolutely right.
Democrats keep the economy stable (Score:2)
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1. user name checks out. This is misinformation, based on the last election results. Your boy lost, and it wasn't fraud.
2. The economy was in a toilet when Biden took over, and literally everyone is better off today than they were 18 months ago. you are full of shit.
3. Don't pretend like you know me. I was a Republican until Trump became the standard bearer. I wouldn't vote for Bernie in a million years, because I believe in fiscal responsibility - by the way, that's also not part of Trump's repertoire
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Trump complained about Germany, you mean. All part of his NATO-bashing, especially aimed at Germany as he didn't like their chancellor Merkle.
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There's no winners in this. China needs to export at the same or higher level to maintain its economy, and who are you going to export to if economies go down the shitter?