Please create an account to participate in the Slashdot moderation system

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Earth

It's 70 Degrees Warmer than Normal in Eastern Antarctica. Scientists Flabbergasted (msn.com) 134

"The coldest location on the planet has experienced an episode of warm weather this week unlike any ever observed, with temperatures over the eastern Antarctic ice sheet soaring 50 to 90 degrees above normal," reports the Washington Post.

"The warmth has smashed records and shocked scientists." "This event is completely unprecedented and upended our expectations about the Antarctic climate system," said Jonathan Wille, a researcher studying polar meteorology at Université Grenoble Alpes in France, in an email. "Antarctic climatology has been rewritten," tweeted Stefano Di Battista, a researcher who has published studies on Antarctic temperatures. He added that such temperature anomalies would have been considered "impossible" and "unthinkable" before they actually occurred.

Parts of eastern Antarctica have seen temperatures hover 70 degrees (40 Celsius) above normal for three days and counting, Wille said. He likened the event to the June heat wave in the Pacific Northwest, which scientists concluded would have been "virtually impossible" without human-caused climate change.

What is considered "warm" over the frozen, barren confines of eastern Antarctica is, of course, relative. Instead of temperatures being minus-50 or minus-60 degrees (minus-45 or minus-51 Celsius), they've been closer to zero or 10 degrees (minus-18 Celsius or minus-12 Celsius) — but that's a massive heat wave by Antarctic standards. The average high temperature in Vostok — at the center of the eastern ice sheet — is around minus-63 (minus-53 Celsius) in March. But on Friday, the temperature leaped to zero (minus-17.7 Celsius), the warmest it's been there during March since record keeping began 65 years ago. It broke the previous monthly record by a staggering 27 degrees (15 Celsius). "In about 65 record years in Vostok, between March and October, values ââabove -30ÂC were never observed," wrote Di Battista in an email....

University of Wisconsin Antarctic researchers Linda Keller and Matt Lazzara said in an email that such a high temperature is particularly noteworthy since March marks the beginning of autumn in Antarctica, rather than January, when there is more sunlight. At this time of year, Antarctica is losing about 25 minutes of sunlight each day.

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

It's 70 Degrees Warmer than Normal in Eastern Antarctica. Scientists Flabbergasted

Comments Filter:
  • It's CRIMINAL (Score:2, Insightful)

    by mamba-mamba ( 445365 )
    I mean absolutely fucking criminal that I have to read all the way to the 4th paragraph to find out if it is Celsius or Fahrenheit. And by the way it is Fahrenheit.
    • That would be 3rd paragraph of the /. posting, or second paragraph of the quoted material.

      • Actually, I see what you're saying. I could kinda-sorta agree it's the 4th paragraph. Poor thing.

        • 4th paragraph in the original article which I clicked on instantly before finishing the summary. Yes. Poor me. The pain is real. Oh, also, I guess if the ice in antarctica melts that might be significant, too. But mainly I am just suffering because I had to read four paragraphs.
    • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 ) on Saturday March 19, 2022 @04:43PM (#62372725)

      Units are for pussies.
        - Mars Climate Orbiter Team

      • I have mod points but I can't mod you up since I commented.
      • Units are for pussies. - Mars Climate Orbiter Team

        Which one was wrong?

        It wasn't metric, it wasn't imperial. It was programmers who weren't as smart as they thought they were.

        • They should have had some kind of test for that before launching, anyway.

          • They should have had some kind of test for that before launching, anyway.

            Exactly! Must have been a pucker string moment when the software team had to report their findings on that screwup.

            I suspect they learned a lesson - seems the JSWT had a lot of dry runs.Of course at that price tag..

    • And by the way it is Fahrenheit.

      Using Fahrenheit means a bigger number and a more dramatic headline.

      • Well, if you are writing in America it makes sense to use Fahrenheit, but in this case, since it was reporting on a scientific publication, or at least quoting a bunch of PhD's, it was not clear that Fahrenheit was the default unit, since no modern scientific paper would use Fahrenheit.
        • Well, if you are writing in America it makes sense to use Fahrenheit, but in this case, since it was reporting on a scientific publication, or at least quoting a bunch of PhD's, it was not clear that Fahrenheit was the default unit, since no modern scientific paper would use Fahrenheit.

          They should use Kelvin - any measurement system that goes negative is dopey. Celsius is every bit as stupid and unwieldy as Fahrenheit.

          • First of all, negative temperatures are possible even in Kelvin. Second of all, even if some kind of logical case can be made for Kelvin, that logic does not change the fact that a lot of people are just used to Celsius and if you start giving them weather forecasts in Kelvin, or having thermostats use Kelvin, they are just going to be pissed off. It is just not realistic. If you were going for +1 funny and I spoiled it, my apologies. Sometimes it is hard to tell on Slashdot. Personally I am American, and f
            • First of all, negative temperatures are possible even in Kelvin.

              Pretty flakey stuff, as NASA describes it, https://cryo.gsfc.nasa.gov/int... [nasa.gov] more an energy state game than an actual temperature. Interestingly, that rare system that can have a negative Kelvin temperature is usually hotter than systems at zero K.

              Second of all, even if some kind of logical case can be made for Kelvin, that logic does not change the fact that a lot of people are just used to Celsius and if you start giving them weather forecasts in Kelvin, or having thermostats use Kelvin, they are just going to be pissed off.

              I couldn't agree more. I mainly use Kelvin as an example when some of our European friends get spun up about metric and the units they use. But you hit it on the head. "A lot of people are just used to Celsius" Same with Fahrenheit, which is what we use out here

      • And by the way it is Fahrenheit.

        Using Fahrenheit means a bigger number and a more dramatic headline.

        Shoulda used Kelvin then! 8^)

        Actually, I kinda wonder why in the pursuit of one measurement system to rule them all, Kelvin isn't promoted over C or F?

        • by dryeo ( 100693 )

          Degrees are more useful in everyday life. much simpler to say it is 4 degrees below freezing rather then 268K.
          Degrees are useful in other fields like geometry (navigation, carpentry etc) where you may deal with negative numbers.
          Kelvin or Celsius doesn't really matter when we say it is 40 above normal in Antarctica and 30 above normal at the same time at the N pole.

    • Honestly, I'd say it's criminal that you missed "reading for context" (what's that, 3rd grade?) so badly that "70 degrees in Antarctica" wasn't OBVIOUSLY going to be in Fahrenheit.

      Really? You thought it might actually be 70 C?

  • Climate scientists have been saying for a long time now already that the highest relative warming is nearer the poles.

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Only unexpected by the eternally clueless. These people are forever surprised when scientifically sound predictions actually turn out to be, you know, scientifically sound.

      • You mean like these unscientific people:

        "This event is completely unprecedented and upended our expectations about the Antarctic climate system," said Jonathan Wille, a researcher studying polar meteorology at Université Grenoble Alpes in France, in an email. "Antarctic climatology has been rewritten," tweeted Stefano Di Battista, a researcher who has published studies on Antarctic temperatures. He added that such temperature anomalies would have been considered "impossible" and "unthinkable" before they actually occurred.

        • by gweihir ( 88907 )

          You mean like these unscientific people:

          "This event is completely unprecedented and upended our expectations about the Antarctic climate system," said Jonathan Wille, a researcher studying polar meteorology at Université Grenoble Alpes in France, in an email. "Antarctic climatology has been rewritten," tweeted Stefano Di Battista, a researcher who has published studies on Antarctic temperatures. He added that such temperature anomalies would have been considered "impossible" and "unthinkable" before they actually occurred.

          Obviously not a good scientist if he things "unthinkable" and "impossible" have a place in Science. Well, that or he just likes grandstanding, benefiting nobody. All this shows is that we still know too little about the climate and everything we do not know may well turn out to make things to come even worse.

          • He added that such temperature anomalies would have been considered "impossible" and "unthinkable" before they actually occurred.
            Note the conjunctive.
            It is in fact unthinkable that he himself did not consider it. He basically is paraphrasing the thinking of ordinary people.

            That the poles - or any cold area - is getting dramatically warm, we observe since 30 years or more. The areas I live in Germany at, had no real winter since decades. With some luck, 5 days snow. The worst combination of everything: tempe

            • by gweihir ( 88907 )

              Well, yes. If this is for what non-experts expected, I agree to that.

              • by dryeo ( 100693 )

                The climate scientists are surprised that this is happening at this time of year and at both poles (30K higher then normal at the north pole).
                Basically they've underestimated things by quite a bit.

          • All this shows is that we still know too little about the climate and everything we do not know may well turn out to make things to come even worse.

            Exactly. We've had enough experience with the inadequacy of climate models that anyone who is "shocked" by this news - scientist or not - is probably also "thick".

            • And yet the models, if anything, are likely too conservative.

              But if you believe thermodynamics somehow functions differently on Earth, then do detail out your models

              • by gweihir ( 88907 )

                And yet the models, if anything, are likely too conservative.

                But if you believe thermodynamics somehow functions differently on Earth, then do detail out your models

                I think the statement you replied to was "too conservative" as well.

                And that is just the thing: If the models are accurate, we are already pretty badly screwed. If they are too conservative, this may well go up to "end of civilization" and may also include "end of humans on earth". If they are too pessimistic, we still will be screwed, just not as hard. Of course the yes/no crowd is not equipped mentally to even begin to understand such "subtleties".

          • Obviously not a good scientist if he things "unthinkable" and "impossible" have a place in Science. Well, that or he just likes grandstanding, benefiting nobody. All this shows is that we still know too little about the climate and everything we do not know may well turn out to make things to come even worse.

            A scientist can be gobsmacked without being incompetent. When are they going to start using "Scientists are Gobsmacked!" 8^) I uttered a writ of "Holy Shit!" when I read the story. Chilling, ironically

          • by ghoul ( 157158 )
            A Scientists primary job is to secure funding for next years research. His/her secondary function is to carry out the research. Grandstanding is part of the job description.
            • I know or have known a lot of scientists, including some published in Nature. Their passion is the research, applying for funding is simply necessary. In some senses, applying for funding is distracting, but can also help keep research focused in and of itself and on what is deemed to be the priorities of society. But sometimes applying for funding can suck up a lot of time or require scientists take a diversion in their research to ensure funding continues and they can keep a team together. What seems to b
      • Only unexpected by the eternally clueless. These people are forever surprised when scientifically sound predictions actually turn out to be, you know, scientifically sound.

        As similar situation is happening in social media, where weird stuff gets posted about "so and so was unknown and not getting her due!"

        I read a story recently how Cecilia Payne-Gaposchkin was horribly treated, never getting any respect, and that was proof of something.

        Cecilia Payne-Gaposchkin? Seriously, one of the most gifted, hard working and acknowledged astronomers ever put on this earth, and "no one knows about her"? Maybe if one's education is from Keeping up with the Kardashians, Naked and Afraid

    • It's unexpected because of the magnitude of the heatwave. It broke all-time records by double digits. While the high latitudes are warming faster than most, this is an order of magnitude beyond what one would expect based on the previously known trends. It shows that the climate system around the Antarctic has become much more chaotic very suddenly, and makes previous projections seem hopelessly conservative.

  • we'll be able to join the rest of the flat earth.

  • Units, Slashdot, units. Kelvin?

  • by redelm ( 54142 ) on Saturday March 19, 2022 @04:57PM (#62372763) Homepage

    Please check your maps, especially a polar projection. Vostok is fairly close to water, and the southern pole get alot of wind (check here [nullschool.net]. All's it takes is a shift, and you go from 220K up to 270K.

    • Re:W I N D !! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by nevermindme ( 912672 ) on Saturday March 19, 2022 @05:10PM (#62372787)
      The ice caps get thicker with warmer weather (-20C to -5C), the only way moisture is transported into the Antierotic interior that receives very little precipitation and is very dry and very cold. Weather and the conduction of moister into antierotic interior is something that does not have a tremendous amount of observation from space and weather radar history.

      The climate studies folks really need to admit the southern hemisphere has a ton of things to show us as the instrumentation increases with better data services to the region.
      • You lost me at antierotic! :)

      • by zublik ( 1254392 )

        "Antierotic interior"
        Reminds me of a....
        Oh dear...
        At least a dozen witty comments spring to mind almost instantly but I think I'd better bite my tongue (as a gesture of solidarity with the antierotic).

      • Polar temps will definitely have an antierotic effect. That's why some people take cold showers.
    • Amazing that it took all of recorded history for the wind to change. The only explanation I can think of is the polar ice walls that surround Earth were stopping the wind. Probably was a Judenlasersatellite that melted them. Nothing else makes sense.

      • Re:W I N D !! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Kernel Kurtz ( 182424 ) on Saturday March 19, 2022 @06:52PM (#62372989)

        Amazing that it took all of recorded history for the wind to change.

        It is especially easy when all of recorded history is half a century.

        • Man... somebody better go tell the aviators, sailors, and meteorologists of the world that they're wasting their time measuring the wind every day. Checking it once on their 18th birthday should be enough. They'll be retired before the wind changes.

    • Please check your maps, especially a polar projection. Vostok is fairly close to water, and the southern pole get alot of wind (check here [nullschool.net]. All's it takes is a shift, and you go from 220K up to 270K.

      Wind is the immediate cause yes, but that doesn't mean global warming isn't the ultimate cause.

      Global warming causes wind patterns to change, some of the cold snaps this past winter were due to global warming weakening the jet stream and allowing the polar vortex to expand past the north pole. I wouldn't be surprised is something similar is happening here.

      • by redelm ( 54142 )
        ??? I might believe a weaker polar vortex that allows the surface (warmer) Screaming Sixties winds in. Polar vortex is what drives the 220K from altitude. Strong polar in the northern hemi and weaker in the south might be plausible.
        • ??? I might believe a weaker polar vortex that allows the surface (warmer) Screaming Sixties winds in. Polar vortex is what drives the 220K from altitude. Strong polar in the northern hemi and weaker in the south might be plausible.

          The interaction between the polar vortex and climate change is pretty well documented [ucdavis.edu], though again, I brought it up as an example more than a cause.

          I don't know if what's going on in Antarctica has anything to do with the northern polar jet stream, but climate change can certainly cause drastic temperature shifts by affecting jet streams.

        • That is what most people don't know, mitigating facts are left out of narratives.

          First of all scientists have known about this for decades it's just not put out to the public until it can be used to HELP the narrative not cause doubt on it. The East snow has been meting to the winds and being redeposited on the West. Until just recently (last 2 years) there was actually a yearly net gain in ice/snow volume while it's coverage area gets smaller.

          1. We are in the middle of a deep (possibly a long deep due t

          • That seems like many things concocted together and a humblebrag. True, that greening due to incresed CO2 is a real phenomenon [nasa.gov] (about 70% of the reason) but the article attributes also increased rainfall (due to global climate change) as one of the causes. Is the greening enough to compensate for warming?

            Also what has the motion of the north magnetic pole to do with climate?

          • All of these "facts", yet not a single link or citation. I tend to be very wary of those whose declare themselves "experts" in something and then declare facts without supporting evidence. True experts demonstrate authority with references, not pats on the back about how many hours of experience they have.

      • Please check your maps, especially a polar projection. Vostok is fairly close to water, and the southern pole get alot of wind (check here [nullschool.net]. All's it takes is a shift, and you go from 220K up to 270K.

        Wind is the immediate cause yes, but that doesn't mean global warming isn't the ultimate cause.

        Global warming causes wind patterns to change, some of the cold snaps this past winter were due to global warming weakening the jet stream and allowing the polar vortex to expand past the north pole. I wouldn't be surprised is something similar is happening here.

        This! this is how in periods of generally increased temperatures, odd warm or cold spells can occur. Coriolis happens.

    • Please check your maps, especially a polar projection. Vostok is fairly close to water, and the southern pole get alot of wind (check here [nullschool.net]. All's it takes is a shift, and you go from 220K up to 270K.

      Squeals in delight! Kelvin smiles upon us.

  • by VeryFluffyBunny ( 5037285 ) on Saturday March 19, 2022 @06:34PM (#62372969)
    ...there isn't just an emperor penguin that's mistaken the thermometer for its egg?
  • Freedom degrees
  • there's a huge pile of encrypted code visible at the bottom of this discussion this page?

  • Real scientists use Kelvin or Celsius scales, and don't faff around with archaic units.

  • They're flabbergasted? Hell, I'm dumbfounded!
  • Please do not quote temperatures in Fahrenheit, a measurement that most of the planet has no concept of understanding of.

    0 degrees = water freezes; 100 degrees water boils [at sea level of course].

    You can be clever and move to Kelvin for extra geek points.

  • Scientists are flabbergasted? How the hell is that possible? Seems like they always have a theory that's not really a theory turned into a model turned into supposed fact designed to get the plebs to change their lifestyle and lower their standard of living.

  • For the rest of the world it's just 40 degrees warmer.

  • Fahrenheit is kind of cringe.

Technology is dominated by those who manage what they do not understand.

Working...