Misinformation is Derailing Renewable Energy Projects Across the United States (npr.org) 224
An anonymous reader shares a report: On a winter night in early 2016, Jeremy Kitson gathered in his buddy's large shed with some neighbors to plan their fight against a proposed wind farm in rural Van Wert County, Ohio. The project would be about a mile from his home. From the beginning, Kitson -- who teaches physics and chemistry at the local high school -- knew he didn't want the turbines anywhere near him. He had heard from folks who lived near another wind project about 10 miles away that the turbines were noisy and that they couldn't sleep. "There were so many people saying that it's horrible, you do not want to live under these things,'" Kitson says. He and his neighbors went on the offensive. "I was just like, there's got to be a way to beat 'em," he says of the developer, Apex Clean Energy. "You got to outsmart them. You got to figure out the science. You got to figure out the economic arguments. You got to figure out what they're going to say and figure out how to counter it."
At the shed, according to Kitson, they agreed that part of their outreach would involve posting information on a Facebook community page called "Citizens for Clear Skies," which ultimately grew to more than 770 followers. In between posts selling anti-wind yard signs and posts about public meetings opposing local wind projects, there were posts that spread false, misleading and questionable information about wind energy. Links to stories about wind turbine noise causing birth defects in Portuguese horses. Posts about the health effects of low frequency infrasound, also called wind turbine syndrome. Posts about wind energy not actually reducing carbon dioxide emissions. Photos of wind turbines breaking, burning and falling -- some in nearby counties and states, but some in Germany and New Zealand.
According to 2014 data from the Department of Energy, the most recent available, out of the then-40,000 turbines in the U.S., there had been fewer than 40 incidents. Kitson, the administrator of the Facebook page, says he knows that these accidents aren't typical. "Those events are not likely. We know that," Kitson says. But Kitson has seen a broken piece of a fallen turbine blade himself, which got him worrying about how the fiberglass might affect the integrity of the soil and the crops. So he posts the photos and articles, many of which he receives from an anti-wind email list. "I do that just to try to show people what's possible." Kitson's group is one of dozens in the United States and abroad that oppose utility-scale wind and solar projects. Researchers say that in many groups, misinformation is raising doubts about renewable energy and slowing or derailing projects.
At the shed, according to Kitson, they agreed that part of their outreach would involve posting information on a Facebook community page called "Citizens for Clear Skies," which ultimately grew to more than 770 followers. In between posts selling anti-wind yard signs and posts about public meetings opposing local wind projects, there were posts that spread false, misleading and questionable information about wind energy. Links to stories about wind turbine noise causing birth defects in Portuguese horses. Posts about the health effects of low frequency infrasound, also called wind turbine syndrome. Posts about wind energy not actually reducing carbon dioxide emissions. Photos of wind turbines breaking, burning and falling -- some in nearby counties and states, but some in Germany and New Zealand.
According to 2014 data from the Department of Energy, the most recent available, out of the then-40,000 turbines in the U.S., there had been fewer than 40 incidents. Kitson, the administrator of the Facebook page, says he knows that these accidents aren't typical. "Those events are not likely. We know that," Kitson says. But Kitson has seen a broken piece of a fallen turbine blade himself, which got him worrying about how the fiberglass might affect the integrity of the soil and the crops. So he posts the photos and articles, many of which he receives from an anti-wind email list. "I do that just to try to show people what's possible." Kitson's group is one of dozens in the United States and abroad that oppose utility-scale wind and solar projects. Researchers say that in many groups, misinformation is raising doubts about renewable energy and slowing or derailing projects.
Who needs them? (Score:2)
Re:Who needs them? (Score:4, Informative)
The number of Americans (from the entire political spectrum) that don't know what happens before electricity gets to the socket makes my work very, very difficult. I work in sustainability including EV charging. The demands of people to "just put in more chargers" because "how hard can it be?" are constant.
Re:Who needs them? (Score:4, Insightful)
"how hard can it be?" argument is the argument from anyone who doesn't really know how things work.
I need a program that will do this or that, well it will take weeks or months, "how hard can it be?"
You go to the pharmacy to pickup your meds they ask you to wait 20 minutes "how hard can it be?"
Having worked on many projects, there is a lot of time where people are making something needlessly difficult on themselves, which I can help them simplify the process. However there are often good reasons why things may still be difficult to achieve.
You have people who want change and want it now. You have people who hate change and will do everything in their power to stop it.
I am happy you are dealing with the real complexities towards setting up the charging network. Because it isn't like just putting in more chargers. There is a different driving dynamic having most EV Charged at home that changes the calculations all together.
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"how hard can it be?" argument is the argument from anyone who doesn't really know how things work.
When I was a senior Unix sysadmin, I had a manager who wanted me to put a card designed for a PC into a $300k HP server to "see if it would work". I asked if he even knew how computers worked. The conversation didn't go well after that. Don't know if it was what I said or that I said it in front of a bunch of people... On the upside, I found a new job two months later as a senior software engineer, at the same salary, didn't have to carry a pager 24/7, and then got a raise two months later.
Re:Who needs them? (Score:4, Informative)
The number of Americans (from the entire political spectrum) that don't know what happens before electricity gets to the socket makes my work very, very difficult. I work in sustainability including EV charging. The demands of people to "just put in more chargers" because "how hard can it be?" are constant.
Having worked on the generating side I certainly agree.
Re:Who needs [Wikipedia]? (Score:2)
Thanks for blocking a worse FP? I'm pretty sure you were going for Funny, but I can only wish you had gotten there. (But at least it appears the moderation system has been restored to its normal state of brokenness.)
As regards this story: "This is not the misinformation droid you are searching for."
I was looking for a story about Putin's unhappiness with Wikipedia. Since I'm sure Wikipedia responded with "Russian warlord, go phuck yourself", I'm wondering what's to stop Putin from unleashing his army of soc
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Thanks for blocking a worse FP? I'm pretty sure you were going for Funny, but I can only wish you had gotten there.
Nah, sarcasm. If I'd been going for funny it would have been funny.
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My power comes from a wall outlet...
And my peaches come from a can...
Re:Think of all the dead birds! (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean when the natural gas infrastructure (that provides most of Texas's power) froze?
The very nature of wind, with daily fluctuations being the norm, means that you have to add more peaking plants and grid interconnects, which gives you more resiliency against unplanned events
Unless, of course, you're Texas, where you run an island of a power grid nearly unconnected to anyone else and you supply your "peaking" with natural gas infrastructure that's not properly cold hardened, and you ALSO don't buy cold-hardened wind turbines.
"Wind Power and Birds" [audubon.org] - "Audubon strongly supports wind energy that is sited and operated properly to avoid, minimize, and mitigate effectively for the impacts on birds, other wildlife, and the places they need now and in the future. To that end, we support the development of wind energy to achieve 100% clean electricity."
The main problem with "wind turbine waste" is that there's not enough of it right now. There are plenty of applications - as fibre filler to make better concrete, for making particle board for construction, etc - but that's not practical when batches of blades only arrive at random times in random places in low quantities.
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Are you really this stupid, or did you have to work up to it? Genuinely curious.
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Sigh... I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not. Political discourse has gotten so stupid over the past decade, that there are a lot of powerful people who spout this nonsense and people follow them blindly. Because they are not the guy from that other political party.
Noise (Score:5, Interesting)
The noise argument is the most annoying as I've stood at the base of one while it was operating and even there it was only a quiet "woosh woosh" sound; you didn't have to go very far to not hear it at all.
Re:Noise (Score:4, Insightful)
Yep. They're turbines, not propellers.
You won't convince anybody though. They'll say the noise is subsonic so you can't hear it or some such.
In the end it doesn't matter. Placebo is placebo. People really can get ill by standing next to unplugged WiFi routers. People really can be prevented from sleeping by a wind turbine 10 miles away.
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You mean, like, "Yo momma so fat that wind turbines stop when she stands in front of them" ?
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Or "Yo mamma so fat that she causes micro-earthquakes when walking to the freezer for the tub of ice cream"
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Same here. Do these people literally go start Facebook groups opposing wind turbines without actually visiting one first? Underneath a turbine it's like the sound of wind whistling through wires in a weakly rhythmic pattern. When I backed up a couple dozen meters, it was half the volume of the sparsely trafficked country road that was twice as far away.
Wind turbines aren't loud. This is a myth.
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(And the one I was at was an older gen, maybe a couple hundred kW, and thus shorter / faster turning than the newer / higher power generation whch have taller towers and turn more slowly)
Re:Noise (Score:5, Insightful)
The absolute loudness is not the only issue though.
Constant droning inst the same as a country road with occasional traffic. Some sounds are just more irritating than others.
The problem is this stuff actually IS all subjective. Some people think a wind turbine is itself a fascinating architectural marvel other people think it spoils the landscape.
This whole thing is just another example of why I am quite dismissive of anyone complaining about 'disinformation' and 'misinformation' today. Half the time they really mean 'I disagree with it.'
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"Constant droning" is not in any way an accurate description. I question whether you have ever actually visited a wind turbine.
It sounded like the low-traffic road that was already there, just quieter. There was nothing even remotely offensive about it. It was just like living in the country "remotely near" a - and I stress these words - low-traffic road.
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"Constant droning" is not in any way an accurate description.
But it probably is an accurate description. Where he is out to lunch is with the simple fact that wind makes noise. There will be a constant drone from the wind going around his house and any adjacent trees. This is a simple matter of hating change more then anything else. It is understandable - I would probably feel the same way in their shoes. However, this change is so minor that it is hard to feel sorry for anyone in this situation. People in cities have to deal with far worse. In fact, wind tur
Re:Noise (Score:4, Insightful)
When I've been in rural areas with low traffic roads, you might hear one or two cars an hour, most of them miles away. When one was coming up the road I was staying at, you could hear it well before it got there. In between individual cars, there was no road noise. That doesn't sound at all like what you might hear from a windmill that turns continuously for hours.
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Count me in on the fascinated side. Driving I-65 from Indianapolis to Chicago you see many of them turning away in the middle of wheat fields. I find it to be relaxing and a little hypnotic. Same with I-70 across the great plains.
And let's not forget that farmers get a little piece of something for using the airspace above their massive tracts of land for generating power - they give up a handful of land that they will have to plant around, get some land lease revenue back, and we all get some clean ener
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The problem is you can *create* subjective problems through the nocebo effect.
Maybe twenty years ago it would have made sense to raise the possibility of some unknown acoustic effect on health, but wind turbines aren't some exotic technology anymore. They're all over the place, many in the middle of densely populated cities. If there *were* an effect, we wouldn't have to speculate about the possibility, we'd be able to measure it.
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Never been to a wind farm, but I wouldn't expect the noise from a windmill (turbine, whatever) to be loudest at the base - I'd expect any noise to be projected perpendicular to the support mast, not aimed straight down the mast.
I'm not saying they are or are not loud, I'm saying your Anecdote about standing at the base of one may not have been a good test.
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Such as off the coast of California, Texas, and Louisiana?
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No, the point of a statement like that is that we've accepted far uglier around us, why is this all of a sudden a problem?
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I find them graceful and interesting, but at least that is a valid point of view, unlike most of the arguments against them.
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beautiful mountains and trees
If you can't make some small sacrifices that hinders "how pretty things are", then for your kids and their kids, this will be the least of their concerns. We're not talking about some far off future here.
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Climate change won't be so good for those mountains and trees in northern WV that you love so much. But you won't be around when it turns into a desert so why should you care, right?
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Re:Noise (Score:4, Funny)
Strip mining those mountains down for coal to generate electricity ought to solve your problem with wind turbines ruining the mountain views.
Gosh (Score:2)
This misinformation.... can't possibly be astroturfing, can it?
I mean, it's not like there's an existing, entrenched, highly profitable, lobbyist-laden industry that is threatened by clean energy...
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"Clean energy" has its share of lobbyists, activists, and for the last few years has been the recipient of hundreds of billions if not trillions of subsidies, grants, and tax deductions that would be the envy of "big oil".
I'm not knocking clean tech, most of it is very good, but don't act like it is succeeding on its merits alone. Every time a politician fears losing an upcoming election, they propose billions in new green spending...
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.. except the non-clean energy industry also lobbies ..
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Great, so let's just end all subsidies for energy generation and let the chips fall where they may. I have a feeling that green energy still wins because there's still headroom for advancement. The solar and wind of today is far better than even 10 years ago, when it was already profitable.
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Most of the people that worked in that particular aspect of the tobacco industry now work in the oil industry. There's literally no difference between the two at this point.
Gaslighting as a job. I wonder if they even feel bad anymore.
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Self Regulation and Quality Control (Score:2)
The vitamin industry, for example, talks about new quality controls and they all asterisk the part about the FDA . . . but not a single bottle of normally benign vitamins state "patients with liver problems should see their doctor" and the like.
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Any self-respecting industry should, regardless of other regulations, form their own regulatory body and standards.
Because people have noting better to do?
blade recycling (Score:4)
Re:blade recycling (Score:4, Insightful)
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The problem is already being worked on with techniques for fiber glass
https://www.reuters.com/busine... [reuters.com]
Also blades are being made with recyclable plastic
https://www.sciencedaily.com/r... [sciencedaily.com]
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The blades can be recycled in the same way that boat hulls can be recycled [boatingindustry.com], right? Right?? [prnewswire.com]
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Well your concern is being addressed [utilitydive.com] by the same companies that manufacture the turbines.
Funny how a widening market can bring new solutions to problems, huh?
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The biggest concern I have for wind power is blade recycling.
And why?
The only recycling that should concern you is stuff that is dangerous if put into a land fill. Everything else does not matter at all.
Or are you similar concerned about batteries? Solar panels? Coal power plant debris? Nuclear power plant debris? Coal ash?
Most poison in the USA is probably coming from the lead dust all over your shooting ranges, but you do not seem concerned.
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Fiberglass is no big deal for a landfill. Now spent fuel on the other hand...
Use the same strategy used for nuclear NIMBY's (Score:2)
Leave them in the dark.
And cold. It's working in Germany.
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Except Germany is shutting down their nukes by the end of 2022, because they finally had The China Syndrome translated into German, or Chernobyl, or Fukushima, or something...
https://abcnews.go.com/Interna... [go.com]
A physics and chemistry teacher? (Score:5, Insightful)
Have you never been near an industrial transformer? Those things are loud. Big buzzing noise. There's one within a few miles of you right now. Can you hear it? No? No shit you can't. it's a few miles away.
I mean... I don't... I can't even.... If somebody who should bloody well know better can't see past the smoke and mirrors what the hell are we going to do?
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Yep, he doesn't know any physics. He may teach out of a book, but he has learned absolutely nothing about physics. I'd seriously question any of his math or science knowledge at this point. He probably believes the earth is flat too. If he could actually do a basic calculation he could figure out with math that there is very little noise generated by wind turbines and if only you are standing within maybe a few 100 feet of them. At a half mile I really doubt you'd be able to hear anything even if there
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5 years ago, I went to a part of the country where there are literally hundreds of wind turbines spread across the landscape. They were close to inaudible, because it was, as expected, windy. The sound of the wind whooshing around my ears was louder than the turbines' noise.
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Wtf? How do you get from 700 meters to "obviously yes, you do hear them!!"
You're the suspect one making bullshit claims.
Re: A physics and chemistry teacher? (Score:2)
How good are your reality skills? Do you live in reality or some conspiracy theory?
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He can't just do the math and research to determine if he'll be able to hear them when they're 10 miles away?
That's a silly way to do it anyway. Plenty of wind turbines have already been built elsewhere. He can just....drive 10 miles away from one! Find out exactly what living near one will be like.
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To be fair, he's a high school physics teacher. Which means he's pretty good at regurgitating what's in a text book, but not very good at researching. If he was, he'd be teaching physics at a higher level, such as a university, as well as looking after graduate students in their own research.
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We shit all over teachers nowadays though, so I wonder if we chased all those guys out.
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Depends on wind direction.
And he was doing his campaign over *1 mile" not 10 miles.
But you are right in so far that in the real world wind turbines are not very loud.
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We don't punish people for lying. People lie to get what they want. You can't convince them because they already know it's a lie. People understand that wind turbines near their home are worse than wind turbines somewhere else, so NIMBY. To achieve what they want, they make up reasons. People who never cared about the environment suddenly pretend to worry about endangered bird species getting slaughtered by turbine blades, etc.. There's no point in arguing with them, because they're not sincere.
The depressing state of affairs. (Score:3)
Misinformation spreads 20 times faster than truth [slashdot.org] because social media rewards people who spread misinformation in a civil manner (ignoring the logical contradiction) while punishing those who point out the lies unless they do it very carefully and diplomatically, and even then the best they can hope for is to simply be ignored. Between truth and civility, social media has chosen civility.
In California, SB9/10 has whipped up a firestorm of opposition from people who falsely claim that it outlawed single family homes. It's very tough to make progress against misinformation like that.
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There's really nothing in House Bill 1557 that has anything to do with child grooming. It's more about general parental rights regarding sex education. However, the biggest press on any upcoming bill usually regards potential unintended consequences (or secretly intended).
In this bill, it's pretty clear that there's an effect of trying to suppress any discussion about gender identity or sexuality and even including chilling factors such as allowing parents to directly bring legal action if they even think
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There's no reason to address gender dysphoria or sexuality in K-3. These are prepubescent children - exposing them to sexualized content as a part of school lessons simply isn't appropriate, especially by government employees.
A primary strategy of pedophile groomers is normalizing sexual conversation and topics with children. Although those on the left will claim that their desire for normalizing sexual conversation for young children comes from compassion, rather than predation, the deleterious effects a
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I'm responding the the poster that says there's no reason for anyone to call it "Don't Say Gay."
But the child grooming aspect is not written into the law either. It's about parents and what their kids are taught.
In His Neighborhood... (Score:2)
Kitson's group is one of dozens in the United States and abroad that oppose utility-scale wind and solar projects. Researchers say that in many groups, misinformation is raising doubts about renewable energy and slowing or derailing projects.
He opposes wind farms in his "backyard" (a mile away), he's a scientist, and no one said HE was posting misinformation, just that others came to his FB page and they shared misinformation.
The project would be about a mile from his home. From the beginning, Kitson -- who teaches physics and chemistry at the local high school -- knew he didn't want the turbines anywhere near him.
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He opposes wind farms in his "backyard" (a mile away), he's a scientist, and no one said HE was posting misinformation, just that others came to his FB page and they shared misinformation.
The project would be about a mile from his home. From the beginning, Kitson -- who teaches physics and chemistry at the local high school -- knew he didn't want the turbines anywhere near him.
Um, no.
from the summary:
So [Kitson] posts the photos and articles, many of which he receives from an anti-wind email list. "I do that just to try to show people what's possible."
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Not a scientist, a high school science teacher. In my experience most science teachers don't actually teach science, they teach an accepted body of what are assumed to be truths. And the subject matter probably *is* truth, but it is so far from the frontiers of science that the real *activities* of science -- bringing evidence to bear on uncertain questions and establishing burdens of proof -- never comes up in the classroom.
This is why so many people think science is just an alternative religion. They'v
How does anyone tell? (Score:4)
Had a wind farm across the road from us for a few years. And before that went up (strongly opposed by the locals, I might add) we visited a few others in the area. The most interesting thing about the noise was the thump one felt when the blade crossed in front of the tower -- like being punched in the stomach. And its very specific to the size of the chest cavity -- not everyone feels it the same way, or at all. And one had to be within a few hundred feet to feel it at all. Low frequency resonance, I suspect. On a windy day in the back yard my cellphone sonometer measured 68db on occasion. Mostly they could be ignored -- like living close to an expressway. And too often, from a power generation perspective, they just sat there and did nothing. Seen all the propaganda -- from both sides. There is lots of marketing mis-information around. And more than a bit of hysteria from the other side.
Considering the huge amount of space required, and the uneven winds, I have my doubts as to whether these are really useful feeding the grid. As an off-grid battery charger, sure. Just wish the folks who are enthusiastic for wind power would live among them for a while -- instead of just inflicting them on others. A sort of Roman engineer solution if you will. My opinion is that wind plants are neither benign nor long lived.
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What huge amount of space that's required? The .1 acre base or the 80 acre area of separation? You can still do stuff with the latter, you know, like use it for farmland [landgate.com]. Which is where utility scale wind farms are deployed in the midwest, oddly enough.
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Its worth taking into account the amount of power that comes from that 100 acres of land that is occupied by an individual turbine. And the destruction of the field's tile drainage when they build their access roads and trench for power and control cabling. Am sure that with some planning and cooperation the land could continue to be farmed. But the ones across the road were left to hay.
And conversations with my neighbors -- some who took turbines and some who didn't, showed it was not the concept of green
Re:How does anyone tell? (Score:4)
Yeah, your experience is what I've experienced, although only in passing. It's interesting to hear people contend that wind turbines are silent and any noise complaints are BS, because it's so obviously false for anyone that has been near them. Part of that is if you are really concerned about global warming and aren't in a place where wind power is likely to be built, you just don't care about how the 'yokels' feel about wind power. So it's easy to discount any complaint others have, because for that suburbanite it seems like nothing but upside. The other part here is how radically differently noise effects people. I grew up in an area with very little ambient noise most of the time, and to this day seek out areas that are quieter (the place I live now was selected explicitly to have reduced noise in an urban environment). I have friends that grew up in dense areas and they just don't seem to care, whether they have worse hearing or just aren't cognizant of background noise I don't know. Several have lived right off of train tracks and claimed they barely noticed them. Now when you think about who actually gets stuck living next to wind turbines (rural people, from quiet areas) it makes sense that noise (specifically the constant drone of a turbine) would be a serious concern.
And for anyone also claiming that light flicker is made up (or barely an issue) you're also flat out wrong. Seriously, it's like a strobe light. The level and length of disruption varies by time of year but it's very real.
And wind turbines absolutely do hit surrounding land values. That's clearly established in Europe. In that article a pretty disingenuous argument is made that "well we haven't seen property value impacts in the US", but a large part of that is wind in the US has to date been built in very sparsely populated areas. Farmland isn't going to lose value due to wind turbines, and housing turns over very slowly (sometimes not for generations) in those places. But now we're seeing wind turbines encroach on more populated regions, where the size of the turbines and scale of the farms is bigger. The fact that so many people don't want to live near them should be the giant red flag that they're probably going to negatively impact all property close to them.
At some level everyone needs to realize that large wind farms and solar farms are industrial facilities the same as any other. Except they have the added drawback of being extremely large, and they provide very little local economic benefit for the regional population. Unlike a factory, you might only have a handful of technicians to cover a huge chunk of a state for something like wind. Sure there might be some tax revenue, or a few farmers might get an additional income stream, but ultimately the benefits are fairly concentrated while the nuisance is highly dispersed. That's going to be a recipe for local communities to fight these projects.
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Given the choice, I would rather have a nuke across the road. They have problems too... NOTHING doesn't. But mostly they just sit there and churn out lots of megawatts day or night, rain or shine. And maybe in another 50 years, long after I am gone, useful power will come from fusion or something else. I know why our ancestors abandoned weather-driven power when steam came along. Seems we need to be reminded occasionally.
And yes, the wind plant was sold as jobs, jobs, jobs -- except all the construction peo
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Three stories later on Slashdot Earthworms Are Invasive - and Likely Hurting Insects - in Much of North America [slashdot.org].
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Yeah, your experience is what I've experienced, although only in passing. It's interesting to hear people contend that wind turbines are silent and any noise complaints are BS, because it's so obviously false for anyone that has been near them.
Heh, I think you misread the above post. It seems pretty clear to me the above poster was pointing out that noise isnt much of an issue with these things. Their experience mirrors mine as well, the noise pretty much goes away with a few hundred meters let alone the mile away this "science" teacher lives.
Don Quixote (Score:2)
Just one more step (Score:2)
in mankind's march to oblivion.
Don Quixote (Score:2)
I can't get his nightly appearance out of my mind after reading this.
Not unique to renewables. (Score:2)
This is really just garden variety NIMBY stuff, and it prevents all kinds of important development in many locations. To stop it, we really need concrete standards for what kind of development is and is not allowed, and what kind of âoeharmâ people are allowed to sue over. People shouldnâ(TM)t be able to use the courts to harass developers and prevent them from building legal structures.
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A lot of environmentalists spread information about dirt bikes doing damage to trails, etc.
They'd say it can move X cubic feet of dirt per minutes. If you look up figures for a backhoe, the backhoe was far less than the number they sighted.
There was a nice trail near a horse farm that did trail riding. They put up signs "No mechanized vehicles due to erosion". Go look at a trail that has had 100 mountain bikes (or motorcycles for that matter) and compare it to a trail that 10 horses have been over. The
So easy to prove yourself... (Score:2)
He had heard from folks who lived near another wind project about 10 miles away that the turbines were noisy and that they couldn't sleep.
Uh, it's 10 miles. Have everyone in that shed meeting drive over there after the meeting that night, lay down in their trucks and see if you are able to fall asleep, or if you even notice the noise. Why don't you go check this rumor out for yourself?
Would YOU want to live under one? (Score:2)
That's the real question here. If you can't answer "yes, I would move to a location near a wind farm" then all you're doing is insisting that other people bend over for to good of everyone else (and the planet) when you yourself aren't doing anything.
Misplaced concern, IMHO (Score:2)
I have to wonder about his level on concern about the plastic particles that are covering, not just his back yard, but the entire damned planet.
Failure is a Valid Concern (Score:2)
However, these things aren't being built in dense urban areas. They'll most likely damage some crops when they fail, and the farmer can be compensated financially when that happens. Loss of life due to
Asterisk (Score:2)
The righteous people of this world all oppose all misinformation, of course.
Misinformation derailed the election of the President of the United States. It was hailed as "fortifying" an election.
Some will say this misinformation is "fortifying" our energy industry.
Just remember, though "misinformation" only counts when it aligns with the approved #MediaIndustrialComplex narrative.
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Sounds like a compelling reason to stop subsidizing the fossil fuel industries then and let the market sort it out.
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Speaking of misinformation. How are you figuring that many windmills are not viable?
Re:Misinformation? (Score:4, Informative)
Solyndra, one example from a program that actually made a profit for the government.
Your post is highly typical of misinformation. Find one counter example and pretend that it applies globally.
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So because one high profile solar company caked it's pants 10 years ago, that means that for some reason WIND power doesn't work?
You know that wind power has worked for literally hundreds of years, right? Those windmills in Denmark aren't just there to look pretty. Civilizations have been using wind power to pump water and grind grain since the 8th century, or before.
Go back to Newsmax, we're not interested in your bullshit here.
Re:Misinformation? (Score:5, Informative)
Get over it. Solyndra was one company out of all the companies that particular government program backed, and as soon as it was found out they falsified their information they were cut off.
But if you want the real story on that program, it has a smaller default rate than banks and even turns a profit [npr.org].
If you're that "upset" about the government giving money to private companies you must be outraged at the hundreds of billions of dollars each year which are doled out to companies such as Domino Sugar, Exxon, Haliburton, and the list goes on.
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The blades will be flung for miles? Uh, no.
They will drop from altitude at 9.8 m/sec^2. And to travel miles before hitting the ground they would have to be up much, much higher than they are now.
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How fast do you think these things are spinning, dude? An average blade on a 1.5MW turbine weighs around 6 tons. To "fling" a 6-ton blade "MILES" through air, with constant gravitational downward force, even if the ejection angle was absolutely perfect, would take far more energy than that turbine would ever create. I don't care to do the maths, but I imagine it would have to be spinning at supersonic speeds.
Use your fucking brain.
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Science teacher posts anti-wind farm page on FB, other people post misinformation on his page, and misinformation isn't accurate, so people don't know the truth.
There, that's the whole "summary", summarized.
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Sounds like you need a safe space.
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Are you expecting a completely unbiased or neutral news source? The article is written by people.
News outlets that lean slightly left or slightly right generally report the facts correctly. But "center" is an arbitrary position defined by an Overton window that is constantly shifting.
As you get toward a more extreme slant in either direction like Daily Beast or Fox News, you have to deal with the fact that the news outlet tries to push an overall narrative more often than focusing on reporting.
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Agree it is real. but how dangerous is it in this instance?
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Instead he collects friends to post things like horse birth defects in Portugal. /s
Yeah, it took me several days of research to figure that birth defects on horses are rather unlikely. But the doubt remains, I'm researching pigs now, and later goats.