Amazon NYC Warehouse Workers Support Union in Historic Labor Win (bloomberg.com) 76
Amazon.com workers at a New York warehouse voted to join an upstart labor union, a historic victory that gives organized labor its first foothold in the company's U.S. operations. Bloomberg adds: The election at Amazon's JFK8 fulfillment center in Staten Island wasn't close. With only a few hundred ballots left to count, the Amazon Labor Union led with 2,300 yes votes versus 1,855 no votes for Amazon.
The victory is a watershed moment for Amazon. The Seattle-based company has managed to keep unions out of its U.S. operations for more than a quarter-century. Unless the company can get the result overturned, Amazon will have to start contract negotiations that potentially could hamper its ability to adjust work requirements and scheduling on the fly. The outcome also could embolden workers and labor activists to try to organize other Amazon facilities and even spill over into other industries.
The victory is a watershed moment for Amazon. The Seattle-based company has managed to keep unions out of its U.S. operations for more than a quarter-century. Unless the company can get the result overturned, Amazon will have to start contract negotiations that potentially could hamper its ability to adjust work requirements and scheduling on the fly. The outcome also could embolden workers and labor activists to try to organize other Amazon facilities and even spill over into other industries.
I'm no union booster but (Score:2)
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The real question is are the Amazon workers getting a good union?
I like the idea of Unionization, however I haven't seen a good implementation of one.
Being most unions will cover multiple organization and sometimes different business sectors, they rarely ever come up a with a good bargain for the employees of that company, but try to push a cookie cutter bargain that they can use with all of their businesses. This sometimes creates creates a deal that makes things work.
For example, Unionization often lead
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Nothing but lies and anti-union propaganda.
Unions are the single best way for workers to protect themselves and negotiate for better pay, benefits, time off, and working conditions. When workers act collectively, they have real power. Why do you think companies fight so hard against them? The big quit has shown a lot of people the power of collective action. Unions give that power to workers all the time, without needing a nationwide uprising.
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LOL, an actual Luddite! You're free to work for peanuts because you're afraid of Jacquard looms. The rest of us will enjoy higher wages, better benefits, better working conditions, more paid time off, better job security ... the list just goes on and on...
Not just about pay (Score:2)
Unions are the single best way for workers to protect themselves and negotiate for better pay, benefits, time off, and working conditions. When workers act collectively, they have real power. Why do you think companies fight so hard against them?
Because unions can reduce flexibility to the point where it impacts operation of the business. Unions make it hard (expensive) to fire bad employees. They make it hard to retain younger employees (due to seniority rules). They make it difficult to automate processes (see the Port of LA and Long Beach).
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LOL! Even if we believed your propaganda, those are "problems" for upper management, not union employees.
You're free to turn down higher wages, better benefits, and the endless list of real benefits unions bring because you want to "service" your corporate masters. The rest of us have woken up to reality.
They make it difficult to automate processes
LOL! Isn't that what you anti-union shills say will happen if employees unionize? Get your stories straight!
Re: Not just about pay (Score:2)
You can shout "propaganda" all you want, but union induced featherbedding is a real thing. That's basically what drove hostess to bankruptcy. Members of the teamster's union weren't allowed to handle sweets due to union rules, which meant that, among other things, they would have to use two separate trucks for freight even if they were both going in the same direction and one truck had enough room to carry everything.
Although the baker's union was ready to make concessions because they saw how bad the situa
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So you took the lies hook, line, and sinker. So sad.
Keep licking those boots. The rest of us are tired of getting kicked in the face.
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So you took the lies hook, line, and sinker. So sad.
Keep licking those boots. The rest of us are tired of getting kicked in the face.
Well you wouldn't be getting kicked in the face if you weren't down there licking those boots to begin with. Like really, why the fuck would you take the Amazon job to begin with if it's that bad? If I hated my job, I'd quit and do something else. I've done it before. I guess maybe if your talents are unremarkable or you just plain don't have any marketable skills at all, then yeah, you'd probably be the guy who always takes the shitty jobs, but the only reason those jobs exist at all is because people like
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Well you wouldn't be getting kicked in the face if you weren't down there licking those boots to begin with.
Did you really just mistake my comment for your own insight? Christ, you boot-lickers are stupid.
If I hated my job, I'd quit and do something else.
That's what people are doing, you stupid asshole. What did you think the "big quit" is all about?
Massive social movements like that don't come around very often, but unions give workers the power to act collectively all the time. This guarantees them better wages, benefits, and working conditions.
If you think you're doing well for yourself, you're even dumber that I thought -- and I think you're a drooling im
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Did you really just mistake my comment for your own insight? Christ, you boot-lickers are stupid.
You literally spoke in the first person plural, and you specifically excluded me. That isn't my own anything, it's all you. I've never licked boots or been kicked in the face by any, you're the only one who has literally stated that this has happened to you.
That's what people are doing, you stupid asshole. What did you think the "big quit" is all about?
You speak in the past tense as if it's already over, but it's not. It's much more well known as the "great resignation", and none of it has anything to do with unions. If anything, I think unions would be opposed to it for the simple reason that workers
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At the risk of sounding like an Amazon fan - cause I'm not.
They provide better pay than their competitors. They provide way more benefits than their competitors. They have better promotion paths because of their growth.
Amazon really suffers from inconsistent management. Their performance and turnover is directly tied to the local management team.
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In my limited experience, unions crush productivity and protect the slackers. They set up a system where the newer employees get the worst vacation and the least overtime opportunities. Work tasks are divided up based on seniority instead of capabilities.
You say they protect the workers but they really seem to protect the longest term workers at the expense of newer workers and productivity. Unions are ok with two-tier seniority based pay plans and benefits packages.
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Crush productivity, eh? Productivity has been skyrocketing since the 1950s. Wages, however, have not even kept pace with inflation. Even if we accept your proposition, which you offer with no evidence, then at worst unions are helping to balance the scales, tipping them just a bit back towards the worker.
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Since this is a new union that was founded by former Amazon workers, I'd say they probably have a good perspective and few harmful ulterior motives. It's the entrenched established unions that tend to act like organized crime and do far less for workers.
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A little while in. Amazon workers are like, managing this union stuff is harder then we think. I think we will reach out to (other union) to help us do the work, it will be cheaper that way. Or they will hire someone from these other unions to manage the union for them, and do the same as they have done before.
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Since this is a new union that was founded by former Amazon workers, I'd say they probably have a good perspective and few harmful ulterior motives. It's the entrenched established unions that tend to act like organized crime and do far less for workers.
I'm sure today's union is pure as the driven snow. I'm sure the 1910 Teamsters were too. It'll be interesting to see how long it stays that way.
Re: I'm no union booster but (Score:2)
The Amazon NYC warehouse can ACTUALLY do this union thing if they want. This doesn't even need to be an April fools joke.
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Yes and no. Lots of Amazon workers don't expect to stay with the company long enough for a union to matter for them. Unionization doesn't really fit the mold for the company.
Wouldn't surprise me if Amazon just closed JFK8.
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Yes and no. Lots of Amazon workers don't expect to stay with the company long enough for a union to matter for them. Unionization doesn't really fit the mold for the company.
No doubt. I'm sure only a tiny fraction of Amazon workers have any intention of working there for long. On the other hand, you can find people who worked 30 years on the sales floor at Walmart so who knows?
Wouldn't surprise me if Amazon just closed JFK8.
Pretty sure that violates US labor law. You can't retaliate against workers who decide to unionize. Closing JFK8 would bring some intense scrutiny.
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Walmart does it all the time. Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face isn't relatiation.
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Walmart does it all the time. Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face isn't relatiation.
What, close stores after the workers vote to join a union? I'd need examples, please. Like I wrote, I'm pretty sure that's actionable in the US. Workers are entitled to organize and are protected if they do so. If they weren't, that entitlement would be an empty promise. Closing the store and the union will immediately file a lawsuit claiming retaliation. Firing workers who voted yes, or just firing everyone and hiring a new crew, would do the same.
First Step (Score:4, Interesting)
This is an important first step, but we'll still need to see if the union can negotiate better working terms for those employees. Amazon cannot risk just shutting down the warehouse, but they can certainly hardball negotiations and treat any strike as essentially a warehouse shutdown.
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This is not likely to change much at the facility. Amazon has business practices that are legal and they likely have the data that supports those policies, workers threatening to strike will shut down the facility, will hurt their coworkers, and will not "bring Amazon to its knees".
At the end of the day it's a well-paid warehouse job, the union won't turn these into longshoreman type jobs, and many employees will resent sharing their income with the union.
Oh, and 2,300 to 1,900 is NOT a blowout union electi
Fun?...no...beneficial...yes! (Score:3)
Fourth-four percent, maybe more, of the workers didn't want a union, that's a significant percentage of current workers who will see their pay decrease (union dues) and may wind up losing pay/hours as the union tries to control Amazon's practices.
Always fun to see non-union worker cheer for someone else to be in a union.
Union workers earn more, on average, than non-union workers, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. So I believe them over randos on Slashdot. Also why is every company in America fighting unionization so much if pay goes down? They're spending a LOT of money to squash unions.
However, more importantly, you made a point about non-union workers cheering on unionization. Most of us have never worked for a union. That is true. However, I know software engineers are exploited. If there was a uni
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Union workers earn more, on average, than non-union workers, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
That's what I hear. Do you have stats for that? Are they comparing the same jobs (e.g. car assembly) or all union vs. all non-union?
Thing is, it's more complicated than it sounds. It's not like you can change a non-union job to a union one and keep everything else constant. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of union-able jobs is flat or shrinking while the number of non-union jobs is growing. Take the car industry: how fast is Detroit hiring UAW workers compared to assembly plants hiring non-UAW workers
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Good news for the workers (Score:2)
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At least until increased automation starts eliminating some of the jobs. The union will have a narrow path in keeping the cost of labor less than the cost of automation. Of course, any workers who lost their jobs due to automation can become coders just by attending a coding bootcamp.
That isn't the only problem. They are also competing against other warehouses throughout New York and the country. As soon as it's more economical to ship from a different warehouse, the workforce could be reduced.
And the union leader has already said his goal is to move wages from $18/hr to $30/hr, so we aren't talking about small asks.
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I sure hope Amazon can endure those rates /s
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Amazon is going to automate regardless of cost up front cost. People think that the only reason to automate is to save money, but the constancy that it brings to your "labor pool" has far more value than anyone below a B level appreciates. A robot that costs me $70,000 a year in maintenance is far more valuable to me than an employee that I'm paying $50,000. Even before you take into account the added overhead of medical insurance, the robot won't leave me in the middle of a shift because their kid got hurt
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Amazon is going to automate regardless of cost up front cost.
No, automation is not an all-or-nothing proposition. There will always be automation projects on the edge, some barely worth doing, others barely not worth paying for.
If you make labor more expensive, a set of automation projects change from net losers to net winners.
Every economic question needs to be examined on the margin.
Alternate Plan (Score:1)
Amazon will have to start contract negotiations
I wonder if that is what Amazon will do, or if they'll simply shut down the distribution center.
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In NYC? Really? Isn't that one of the cities where they've been pushing hard for same-day delivery on everything? I really fucking doubt they would just shut down to avoid a single unionized location but I guess we'll see. The stock is up .33% today, doesn't seem like the market gives a fuck at all.
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In NYC? Really? Isn't that one of the cities where they've been pushing hard for same-day delivery on everything? I really fucking doubt they would just shut down to avoid a single unionized location but I guess we'll see.
Yup, it will be interesting. I don't think Amazon really gives a rat's ass whether the workers are unionized. What they really care about is the ROI of having that distribution center open. If it's expensive to operate (wages, real estate, bribes to city coun...er...building permits) but generates a lot of Prime memberships, they'll keep it.
They face the same decision in San Francisco. They bought a beat up piece of land with the intent of building a distribution center, presumably for the same reason, so t
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I wonder if that is what Amazon will do, or if they'll simply shut down the distribution center.
Alternate headline: World's richest man throws tantrum over 0.001% increase in labor costs.
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They'll probably shut it down unless they can find a way to reduce headcount w/out bringing in scabs. Or they may provoke a strike and THEN shut it down.
Will they close the warehouse? (Score:2)
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They might have voted themselves a bigger paycheck.
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> Unions are a nothing but a self imposed tax.
Perhaps the tiny, obscure union will have some cycles to get them bathroom breaks or human-level quotas.
I will be happy to not get a box dripping with polyurethane because somebody threw it in the box with no padding so the lid popped off, to make their quota.
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If you've ever worked in an FC as a packer, you'll understand that the union will also have to encourage their own workers to stop sabotaging one another. Which they do frequently.
True story: one of the pack functions at some FCs involves packers hauling totes full of pseudo-randomly organized orders off a conveyor belt. Packers are expected to pull a tote off the conveyor, scan it, and then start packing the orders one by one, putting the boxes on the same belt to be scanned into the system for movement
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LOL! Union dues are the single best investment a worker can make. They pay for themselves over and over again. Not just financially either, but in better benefits, better working conditions, better job security, the list goes on.
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Most of the time, that's true, but depending on the union and the worker's position, YMMV. For example, my previous job's union was only for the full time workers, and left part-time workers to be the scapegoats that management (and union reps) was allowed to abuse at will. The only benefits PT workers got was an extra $0.25 per hour, but then PT union dues were also $0.25 per hour, plus an extra $10 per week. Full time workers got a pretty sweet union deal though, and the empty promise of PT employees b
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I'll take the slight risk of a less than perfect union over the guarantee of corporate abuse any day. So would any rational person. Leave your fear mongering in the past where it belongs.
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How did you misinterpret a comment that literally says "On average, unions do improve conditions for their workers" and that we shouldn't abandon them even when they don't, as fear mongering? I'm legitimately curious, particularly because I do support unions in general, and also that we need effort to ensure quality unions rather than blindly supporting them, and when they fail to improve conditions for their workers, they need to be called out on it and made better.
So if that somehow came across as fear m
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Please, troll. You added that one tiny pro-union statement in the middle of a sea of anit-union crap to give yourself cover when you were inevitably called out on your bullshit. While you buried this one in the middle, most of the shills start off with "I'm not anti-unioin but..." before repeating propaganda.
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Hasn't NY suffered enough of high prices? (Score:2)
Think again.
If there's better jobs, the Amazon workers will go there.
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If there's better jobs, the Amazon workers will go there.
So in other words someone still has to do it, just not those people.
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Or they go under.
Either way, no one ends up doing that work.
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If they want to remain competitive, they won't raise prices. It's not like they aren't raking in profits at the end of the day. They might blame the union and raise prices anyway, but it's not because it is preventing them from remaining very profitable.
And prices would not affect just NY. An order can really ship from any warehouse. And inventory gets redistributed from warehouse to warehouse fairly often.
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If they want to remain competitive, they won't raise prices. It's not like they aren't raking in profits at the end of the day.
They posted something like $8B in profits the day after they jacked Prime by $30.
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If they can't
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I don't think employees choose employers based on the prices of the products.
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You're not going to be wealthy working at the Dollar Store.
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It's idiotic to think that every increase in costs is, or even can be, passed along to the consumer. Prices should already be as high as the market will tolerate. If they could raise prices, they would have already. Or do you think companies are in the habit of leaving money on the table out of the goodness of their hearts?
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Better wages, benefits, working conditions, the list goes on.
Productivity has been steadily increasing since the 50's, yet wages haven't kept pace with inflation. That hurts everyone, not just the guys at the bottom.
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Companies are competing over labor already. If you think they aren't presenting wages to compete against other companies you are mistaken.
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I'm not the guy who was saying anything was "optimized".
If you think companies don't try to keep wages as low as possible, you're deeply mistaken. Wages have risen in response to the 'big quit', sure, but they're still well below what they would have been had they merely kept pace with inflation.
Workers have real power, but they need to act collectively to realize it. The 'big quit' gave workers a taste of that power, but opportunities like that are vanishingly rare. Unions give them that power and a whol
Crap journalism (Score:2)
"Wasn't close" is a subjective phrase especially when you factor in that "a few hundred ballots left to count". You could just as easily say "roughly half of the voters didn't want this."
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When you're fighting against 40 years of constant anit-union propaganda, that's pretty good. People are just now starting to wake up, thanks to the big quit.
But go ahead and pretend that Amazon has their workers best interests in mind.
Won't matter much (Score:2)
In Germany they are all unionized, they strike several times a year, nobody notices anything, it's a logistic firms, it's MADE to work around problems like strikes.
Curious To See How It Turns Out (Score:2)
I hope it goes well and helps drive unionizing efforts in other companies. I also wish American companies would realize that it is possible to have a mutually beneficial relationship with a union.
Parler (Score:2)
The difference between 2300 and 1800 could have been made up by an active campaign on Parler - that's a 250-vote swing, or less than 10%.
Amazon reaps what it sows. Enjoy the workers of the world uniting.
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Parler? Who cares about that?
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Which is fine because amazon is too big to fail, and will just go cap in hand to the government for a bailout.
American unions are a nightmare to deal with (Score:2)
No I'm not talking about it from being in management. Because I am not in management nor am I in a union shop any more.
We used to work trade shows. Moving an empty box from the show floor took three of us. One to push the box, one to lift the box, and me to track where it went.
Overtime and time off is all by seniority. The newer employees never get a shot at money or time off no matter how big much of slackers the other employees are with more seniority. A friend of mine took a 13 month sabbatical in a