Richard Stallman Speaks on the State of Free Software, and Answers Questions (libreplanet.org) 112
Richard Stallman celebrated his 69th birthday last month. And Wednesday, he gave a 92-minute presentation called "The State of the Free Software Movement."
Stallman began by thanking everyone who's contributed to free software, and encouraged others who want to help to visit gnu.org/help. "The Free Software movement is universal, and morally should not exclude anyone. Because even though there are crimes that should be punished, cutting off someone from contributing to free software punishes the world. Not that person."
And then he began by noting some things that have gotten better in the free software movement, including big improvements in projects like GNU Emacs when displaying external packages. (And in addition, "GNU Health now has a hospital management facility, which should make it applicable to a lot more medical organizations so they can switch to free software. And [Skype alternative] GNU Jami got a big upgrade.")
What's getting worse? Well, the libre-booted machines that we have are getting older and scarcer. Finding a way to support something new is difficult, because Intel and AMD are both designing their hardware to subjugate people. If they were basically haters of the public, it would be hard for them to do it much worse than they're doing.
And Macintoshes are moving towards being jails, like the iMonsters. It's getting harder for users to install even their own programs to run them. And this of course should be illegal. It should be illegal to sell a computer that doesn't let users install software of their own from source code. And probably shouldn't allow the computer to stop you from installing binaries that you get from others either, even though it's true in cases like that, you're doing it at your own risk. But tying people down, strapping them into their chairs so that they can't do anything that hurts themselves -- makes things worse, not better. There are other systems where you can find ways to trust people, that don't depend on being under the power of a giant company.
We've seen problems sometimes where supported old hardware gets de-supported because somebody doesn't think it's important any more — it's so old, how could that matter? But there are reasons...why old hardware sometimes remains very important, and people who aren't thinking about this issue might not realize that...
Stallman also had some advice for students required by their schools to use non-free software like Zoom for their remote learning. "If you have to use a non-free program, there's one last thing... which is to say in each class session, 'I am bitterly ashamed of the fact that I'm using Zoom for this class.' Just that. It's a few seconds. But say it each time.... And over time, the fact that this is really important to you will sink in."
And then halfway through, Stallman began taking questions from the audience...
Read on for Slashdot's report on Stallman's remarks, or jump ahead to...
- One questioner asked Richard Stallman about copyright and trademark lawStallman began by thanking everyone who's contributed to free software, and encouraged others who want to help to visit gnu.org/help. "The Free Software movement is universal, and morally should not exclude anyone. Because even though there are crimes that should be punished, cutting off someone from contributing to free software punishes the world. Not that person."
And then he began by noting some things that have gotten better in the free software movement, including big improvements in projects like GNU Emacs when displaying external packages. (And in addition, "GNU Health now has a hospital management facility, which should make it applicable to a lot more medical organizations so they can switch to free software. And [Skype alternative] GNU Jami got a big upgrade.")
What's getting worse? Well, the libre-booted machines that we have are getting older and scarcer. Finding a way to support something new is difficult, because Intel and AMD are both designing their hardware to subjugate people. If they were basically haters of the public, it would be hard for them to do it much worse than they're doing.
And Macintoshes are moving towards being jails, like the iMonsters. It's getting harder for users to install even their own programs to run them. And this of course should be illegal. It should be illegal to sell a computer that doesn't let users install software of their own from source code. And probably shouldn't allow the computer to stop you from installing binaries that you get from others either, even though it's true in cases like that, you're doing it at your own risk. But tying people down, strapping them into their chairs so that they can't do anything that hurts themselves -- makes things worse, not better. There are other systems where you can find ways to trust people, that don't depend on being under the power of a giant company.
We've seen problems sometimes where supported old hardware gets de-supported because somebody doesn't think it's important any more — it's so old, how could that matter? But there are reasons...why old hardware sometimes remains very important, and people who aren't thinking about this issue might not realize that...
Stallman also had some advice for students required by their schools to use non-free software like Zoom for their remote learning. "If you have to use a non-free program, there's one last thing... which is to say in each class session, 'I am bitterly ashamed of the fact that I'm using Zoom for this class.' Just that. It's a few seconds. But say it each time.... And over time, the fact that this is really important to you will sink in."
And then halfway through, Stallman began taking questions from the audience...
Read on for Slashdot's report on Stallman's remarks, or jump ahead to...
- How far should copyright law go?
- That NPM package that deleted files in Russia
- Does the free software world need more videogames?
- Stallman's upcoming manual for 'GNU C'
- Free Software's role in protecting our planet's environment
Copyright covering works and monopolizing the use of the contents of those works is very similar to the Enclosure Laws. Enclosure was basically theft, and copyright is vicious in a similar way, when it's used to stop people from sharing.
But then he added, "Now I am not against copyright 100%."
I think it's legitimate for there to be copyright, and for it to cover commercial distribution and use of a work, and to cover publicly-visible modification of the work. However, non-commercial redistribution of exact copies should be allowed for any published work. (Now, not for private, personal data, but for published works, yes.) And then some works, the works that exist to be used — not just looked at, thought about, contemplated, appreciated — you know the works that are meant to be used by each person? Those need to be free. So for instance, software should be free. Recipes should be free. Patterns for sewing clothing should be free.
- Someone asked Stallman his thoughts on the recent controversy around the node-ipc package. (Specifically, how last month some versions reportedly "began deleting all data and overwriting all files on developer's machines, in addition to creating new text files with 'peace' messages" for users in Russia in Belarus (to protest Russia's invasion of Ukraine). Stallman responded:
I think that was really nasty, that change — deleting people's files is really nasty. And it's not as if this deletion was being done to a war criminal, you know? It could be anybody in Russia. It could be anybody in Belarus, and most people in Belarus hate Lukashenko — you know, they want him gone. But they're still being punished. So that was not a good thing to do. It's not a good thing to broaden the condemnation and the hate.
- Another question asked Stallman what he thought of videogames — and whether more free-software videogames would benefit the libre world?
Well, first of all, I don't think there's anything bad about playing a game. Unless the game is non-free — then it's bad for you, if you play it.
But typically these games are not solitaire; you're playing with other people. And using a non-free program together with other people? That's particularly bad. Because it means that those people are pressuring each other to keep running that non-free program. And whenever a non-free program generates that kind of effect, where each user is pressured by all the other users to continue doing something that's bad for you — that makes all of them ethically responsible for pressuring the others. Which means you really should stop.
Now, more free games? It doesn't satisfy an urgent practical need, obviously... But the crucial thing is, free ones might make it easier for some people to say, 'Let's move off this non-free thing, and play a game that is free. So we can have the same pleasure, but without paying freedom as the price.'
And by the way, anyone who plays Minecraft could switch to Minetest. Minetest is a free game, similar to Minecraft.
- Towards the end of the questions, Stallman teased an upcoming project. "We're about to take a step forward in documentation."
I have written a manual for GNU C, and the Free Software Foundation is going to publish it in not-too-terribly long. Now, why do I say it's a manual for GNU C? It does not try to describe the C standard — because that would be tremendously complicated, and tremendously hard to use.
It's not just that there are a lot of details in the C standard. It's written in terms of abstractions. Instead of telling you what the program means, it tells you what the program is permitted to mean. So you need to think at a second-order level to make sense of the C standard. Well, the purpose of this manual is to enable people to learn C, and also to enable them to look up the details of what C constructs mean... And indeed, C inevitably is full of wrinkles and more complex rules, but I've tried to express them in ways that make it easier to understand C programming. And part of what enabled me to do that is forgetting about the standard.
Now, GCC follows the C standard. It will be quote "conforming" if you specify certain options, which you don't actually have to specify. But by only describing what GCC does — and not all the other possible things some other compiler might do without violating the standard, it makes the manual much simpler and clearer. So I hope that once this manual has settled down, people will adapt it to cover other languages that are more or less of the same category.
For instance, I think it wouldn't be terribly hard to modify the GNU C manual to get a Java manual.
- For one of the final questions, Stallman was asked if the free software community has a role in limiting environmental damage to our planet? And Stallman answered, "Well, I know of one way where it's directly relevant."
Planned obsolescence causes a lot of waste. And in particular, it produces lots of e-waste. Of course, manufacturing the new devices to be sold to people who have just suffered planned obsolescence uses a lot of energy and a lot of material resources. So free software is exactly the thing to help people keep using the same device for longer.
Now this is not a very direct connection. It's a consequence of being in a community where individuals have more control over what they do. And that is very important, itself. But it also enables people to be less wasteful.
Businesses will direct you into wasteful consumption, because it's profitable for them. And if they have less influence over you, you can stay away from the wasteful consumption.
Stallman closed his talk with some gracious words for his audience. "I'd like to thank people once again for joining my talk, and to wish all of you happy hacking.
"And please volunteer for the GNU project. Please join the Free Software Foundation."
Slashdot's additional coverage of Stallman's other remarks:
Re:Paid Zoom? (Score:5, Informative)
When Richard says "free", he means "freedom", not "zero cost".
Since Zoom is closed-source, it is not free, even if you don't pay to use it.
This ambiguity is a peculiarity of English. In most languages, "free" as in freedom, and "free" as in no cost, are different words.
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The classic, if not necessarily less confusing analogy is "FREE BEER! vs. FREE SPEECH!"
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That's why I struggle with the exponent of beer in my definition of freedom. But too annoying to fix it for Slashdot since the equation needs Unicode... Or at least respect for the ≠ tag.
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+1 insightful: LibreOffice vs GratuitOffice!
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When Richard says "free", he means "freedom", not "zero cost".
Since Zoom is closed-source, it is not free, even if you don't pay to use it.
This ambiguity is a peculiarity of English. In most languages, "free" as in freedom, and "free" as in no cost, are different words.
Okay - thanks for the clarification.
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When Richard says "free", he means "freedom", not "zero cost".
Since Zoom is closed-source, it is not free, even if you don't pay to use it.
This ambiguity is a peculiarity of English. In most languages, "free" as in freedom, and "free" as in no cost, are different words.
Which is why I think, with all due respect to the man, that the problem's partly Stallman's fault. He could have chosen a less ambiguous term. "Unfettered" for example is less ambiguous while arguably less sexy than free. But free software advocates and developers don't exactly have a reputation for choosing highly marketable names, including such classics as The Gimp, GNU and Emacs.
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Re:Paid Zoom? (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody is being harmed in any way.
Nobody is being harmed by Zoom being untrustworthy software? Really?
You know why people use Zoom?
The usual reason is ignorance, often combined with inertia.
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Really curious about that C manual (Score:5, Insightful)
The description of the C manual he gives makes me think it would be pretty interesting to read, and as he says maybe see if a similar manual could be written for other languages. It sounds like an interesting twist on a normal computer language guide, to tie it so directly with an implementation.
It could be we are all a bit too abstracted from the compilers and interpreters we use daily.
Avoid Zoom by changing your OS (Score:2)
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Students in primary and secondary school will mostly use the tablets or notebooks issued by their schools, which is usually either iPads, Chromebooks, or Windows Surface, and over which they have no real control. Parents may have signed paperwork promising that neither they nor their students will attempt to bypass any controls or install any additional software, and that they will not try to log in with computers other than those issued to the student.
Colleges don't generally have such control, but being a
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Runs fine in a browser on Linux, etc. At that point, are they even "distributing" the software?
Which means, that software could be Free (GPLv2 or 3, but not AGPL) and not be distributed because it is still on Zoom's server. Of course it isn't but then it comes down to an argument about what Free licenses you personally care to use or agree to.
His position on games is nonsense (Score:3)
(Many) Video games are large artistic endeavours, more akin to movies than just strictly software. The require an enormous amount of effort not just from programmers but from artists and animators and writers and so many more people.
The current state of capitalism is a nightmare, don't get me wrong, but what he's saying effectively amounts to telling game devs they're immoral for making entertainment that people can buy on proprietary systems.
But this is kind of his whole thing, I suppose. At least he's consistent. I wonder if he pays for books or movies or music.
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Copyright still exists. People would still have reasons to buy the game content (artwork, scripting, music, etc) if the game engine was Free.
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He doesn't oppose paying for things, he supports it. He opposes closed source.
For video games, in the past he's suggested that it would be ok for video games to be closed-source for a while to recoup costs (or whatever), then to become open sourced.
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Why are you attempting to smear Stallman for changing his views as more evidence becomes available? Does it make you feel better about disagreeing? Is it a way to try to seem like you have valid input on topics you clearly haven't really given any thought?
Whatever the reason, all it's doing is making you look bad. It's rational to change ones mind as one learns more about a subject, and irrational to attack people for doing so, especially through projecting ones own insecurities on them.
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(Many) Video games are large artistic endeavours, more akin to movies than just strictly software. The require an enormous amount of effort not just from programmers but from artists and animators and writers and so many more people.
A lot of the effort that goes into producing an AAA game is put in specifically because of what he's talking about. There is an enormous amount of duplication of effort in the game industry. Two people at two different games companies will be working on producing textures that you can only tell apart from one another by stopping and staring because of copyright issues. Instead of cooperating on one great engine, we get two mediocre ones because they are competing. And when any work that doesn't need to be d
Re: His position on games is nonsense (Score:2)
But, let us be clear here.
Are you saying there is no way to release a game on, say, the Unreal Engine, where the level and asset scripts are open as well as engine code, but the other assets are not open?
I would like to think such a solution would be a best-of-both-worlds, technology could be further developed by fans and ported to new platforms for instance - yet the game assets are still being sold as a separate entity.
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I know I'm dog-piling with everyone else here, but take the original Doom as an example: The code and engine that makes the game run is Free and open source, but the WAD files, the content, the artwork, even the Doom name are still covered by nonFree copyright.
No Minetest is NOT a replacement (Score:3)
> And by the way, anyone who plays Minecraft could switch to Minetest. Minetest is a free game, similar to Minecraft.
No, Minetest is not even close to being functional equivalent to Minecraft. For one Minecraft "just works". With Minetest you need a bunch of mods to have "redstone".
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Yeah I'm pretty surprised that I haven't been able to find one modpack for minetest that makes it behave like minecraft. But even if you did, virtually nobody is using it compared to mc, so there's not this whole community around it with tons of players and servers and trackers. It's the same reason faceboot is popular.
Web 3 (Crypto Wrapped W3C) Consensus & Governa (Score:1)
richi s. (Score:1)
Re: Does anybody still care about RMS? (Score:1, Flamebait)
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Bad is such a subjective term. These days, it really has no meaning, other than to declare that you do not agree with someone, and hence they are a bad bad person.
No. Richard Stallman is not a "bad person" because I disagree with him. He is a bad person because he does bad things. Things that any rational person would agree are bad.
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Re: Does anybody still care about RMS? (Score:5, Funny)
Don't be so harsh, he consulted people on rational wiki.
Re: Does anybody still care about RMS? (Score:2)
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"He is a bad person because he does bad things."
No he does not.
"Things that any rational person would agree are bad."
No they would not.
Re:Does anybody still care about RMS? (Score:5, Informative)
He has done far more good for the open source movement, and hence the world, than you ever will.
Also, I don't think he is a bad person so much as misunderstood. I have read some of the accusations against him, and only half of them have any merit (the rest being obvious political agenda-pushing in the form of character assassination). Of the half that do have merit, the situation is debatable and the evidence scarce.
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He has done far more good for the open source movement, and hence the world, than you ever will.
Also, I don't think he is a bad person so much as misunderstood. I have read some of the accusations against him, and only half of them have any merit (the rest being obvious political agenda-pushing in the form of character assassination). Of the half that do have merit, the situation is debatable and the evidence scarce.
It's ironic, really ... I mean, read Stallman's political page on his blog, he holds bog-standard leftist positions, virtually identical to those who want his head on a pike.
He thought that signing up with the leftists would bring freedom, not a more complicated, hierarchy-based system of sexual puritanism than ever before.
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He is that rare leftist who actually thinks from time to time, and who seems to understand that wealth can be redistributed only if it is first actually created.
I'd still disagree with him on a great many things, but where matters related to software freedom are concerned, he remains, most of the time, not only spot-on, but prescient.
Re:Does anybody still care about RMS? (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, he *IS* a bad person.
Richard is blunt, insensitive, and obviously on the autism spectrum.
But he is not "bad" in the sense of harming people, other than hurt feelings.
Re:Does anybody still care about RMS? (Score:4, Insightful)
Spot on, and further, it is a Santa Claus/Easter Bunny moment when you realize that people you've admired and respect wind up just being regular people, like you, with flaws and warts and shit.
But that's okay. If it weren't for regular, flawed peopled doing extraordinary things, there'd be no extraordinary human accomplishments.
Re:Does anybody still care about RMS? (Score:5, Interesting)
I can see some of the actual bad things he has done to women have not surfaced as much.
I have read the accusations, and I don't think they amount to much. It is not about what he has "done to" women, but what he "said to" women. He was occasionally an insensitive jerk. But he never forced himself on anyone, and the women were not his subordinates. He had no power over them. None of his accusers claimed any repercussions for turning down his invitations.
Many people were also upset about his defense of Marvin Minsky, who made several trips on the "Lolita Express" to Jeffery Epstein's island. Richard said some insensitive things, but he was right to point out that Minsky was DEAD and could not defend himself.
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Many people were also upset about his defense of Marvin Minsky, who made several trips on the "Lolita Express" to Jeffery Epstein's island. Richard said some insensitive things, but he was right to point out that Minsky was DEAD and could not defend himself.
Just to be clear, as I did a big of reading last time this issue came up, I believe it was exactly two trips to Epstein's island, and it was in the context of Epstein holding some kind of symposium. On the one trip in which it was alleged that Virginia Giuffre was told to go to Minsky (note, she did not say she DID sleep with Minsky, she said she was told to go to him), Minsky's wife was him and said that she was with Marvin the entire time.
It's much easier to be enraged over social media crap and moral rig
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The symposium was organized by Minsky, who chose the venue.
There is no suggestion that Minsky had sex with Giuffre, merely that he knew of Epstein's reputation (which at the time had already lead to him being banned from making donations to some institutions) and continued to associate with him anyway, even going so far as to use his island for an academic symposium.
As for RMS, the issue is that he said that Minsky would have had no reason to believe that she was being coerced. That's clearly absurd. Aside
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There is no suggestion that Minsky had sex with Giuffre
I'm glad that at least the goalposts have moved, if not the intentions.
the issue is that he said that Minsky would have had no reason to believe that she was being coerced. That's clearly absurd.
...says the person with hindsight of massive investigations. Realistically, people don't see into other people's heads all the time.
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There is no suggestion that Minsky had sex with Giuffre
I'm glad that at least the goalposts have moved, if not the intentions.
There's no goal, no goalposts, and the goalposts have not moved. Giuffre only ever said she was directed to make herself available to Minsky.
the issue is that he said that Minsky would have had no reason to believe that she was being coerced. That's clearly absurd.
...says the person with hindsight of massive investigations. Realistically, people don't see into other people's heads all the time.
Realistically you're making excuses. Epstein was already publicly in trouble by that point.
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If I recall Epstein had already been found guilty by that point, but had managed to negotiate a sweet deal where he was allowed to live under house arrest for a while.
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There's no goal, no goalposts, and the goalposts have not moved. Giuffre only ever said she was directed to make herself available to Minsky.
That's what she said, but not what many people claimed to have happened. AmiMoJo went from "Minsky went with Epstien [sic!] to his island and the girl had sex with him" [slashdot.org] to "There is no suggestion that Minsky had sex with Giuffre" [slashdot.org], so I'd consider that a goalpost moved. You wouldn't?
Epstein was already publicly in trouble by that point.
In 2003? I'm not *all that* familiar with the case but Wikipedia tells me that the first investigation of Epstein regarding sex crimes started in 2005.
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I didn't know Amimojo had originally said that, it was a big miss and yes, in his case that is moving the goalposts. The official story was however never that she had sex with him. In discussing this issue I always used weasel words to make sure I didn't make the same mistake :)
As for investigation of Epstein, you're correct. My memory was cloudy, it was that Minsky did more work with Epstein in 2011.
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I corrected myself. The victim was told to have sex with him, but there no evidence or claim that she went through with it. That's besides the point though.
The symposium was in 2011, which was after Epstein was a convicted, registered sex offender and banned from donating to MIT.
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The symposium was organized by Minsky, who chose the venue. There is no suggestion that Minsky had sex with Giuffre, merely that he knew of Epstein's reputation (which at the time had already lead to him being banned from making donations to some institutions) and continued to associate with him anyway, even going so far as to use his island for an academic symposium.
because the encounter with Giuffre didn't take place in 2011. From the Giuffre mention one would think that you were talking about the 2003 event.
Re: Does anybody still care about RMS? (Score:1)
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"That's clearly absurd."
No it is not. You are just hating along with your tribe, and (unsuccessfully) trying to forge arguments to support your hate.
Re:Does anybody still care about RMS? (Score:5, Funny)
Also, if a woman wants Richard to leave her alone, she can tell him she uses vi instead of emacs, and he will never speak to her again.
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Won't work. He'll decide she's an "EMACS Virgin" and set about initiating her.
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But he never forced himself on anyone, and the women were not his subordinates. He had no power over them.
Some of those who complained about his behaviour were his students, so he definitely did have power over them. Their need to interact with him to achieve their academic goals means that such interactions were forced.
His academic position also meant that he was expected to deal with complaints against others, when reported to him. His behaviour compromised his ability to do that.
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Ami, what evidence do you have of this, and how bad was it? All I found was this [medium.com] which has several quotes that don't provide any evidence of wrongdoing (just opinions from students, but not accusations from them of wrongdoing on the part of RMS), a "report" that didn't even mention RMS once and made zero accusations of him, and only one quote that is from a student, in which she states that RMS asked her out.
Is there another source of direct quotes from students in which they make direct accusations agains
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I can see some of the actual bad things he has done to women have not surfaced as much.
That is because he did not do bad things to women, hence there is nothing to surface.
You however are just another troll trying to destroy people you don't know because the tribe yuo identify with has chosen said person as a target for destruction.
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RMS can be sensitive and understanding when he wants to be. I don't think we can diagnose him purely based on his public works either.
If you read some of the articles he has written, for example about gender neutral pronouns, he clearly does understand social issues and can be sensitive towards other people's feelings.
And even if he was autistic, that wouldn't excuse some of the things he does. Autistic people may have difficulty understanding social situations, but they understand when people tell them in
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I've done mildly bad things unintentionally because my autism prevented me from understanding what I was doing.
They were still bad things. Autism may partly explain them but it does not excuse them.
But most of the worst things I've done had nothing to do with autism; I did them because I was a selfish asshole. I can't change that I did them, and I don't seem to have much luck trying to become something other than a selfish asshole, but I have learned that avoiding most social situations at least helps for
Other way around (Score:2)
And I'm not the one to say it... just ask any of the top-10 people in the open source
Given what RMS has done for humanity generally, I would be way more inclined to toss all of those "top ten" people - and yourself - into the garbage than believe whatever lies the lot of you have chosen to concoct about Stallman.
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People can do good in some areas and bad in others. This whole idea that people are all bad or all good is insensible, and it leads people to make stupid decisions.
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If you said "Use open source" around him, you could well find yourself on the receiving end of a lecture about the nuances of open source and free software. He is very much an advocate of the latter, while he regards "open source" as a wider term that covers a lot of what he considers to be non-free software.
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If you said "Use open source" around him, you could well find yourself on the receiving end of a lecture [...] he regards "open source" as a wider term that covers a lot of what he considers to be non-free software.
And he's right, because "Free Software" has a deliberate definition, while "Open Source" is an idea that grew organically. Despite their efforts, the term doesn't belong to the OSI, it belongs to everyone. What's especially sad about that is that if the OSI had been less self-gratifying and more honest, more of us might have actually welcomed their influence. Their deliberate attempts to conflate Open Source with Free Software are harmful to both.
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I mean, he *IS* a bad person. And I'm not the one to say it... just ask any of the top-10 people in the open source and free software movements.
I'm curious who you would put in that top-10 list and whether I would have heard of any of them, other than Stallman. Can you actually make such a list?
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Only very ignorant and dumb people do not. Mostly rather young people, in my experience.
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This is the kind of comment that gets marked insightful these days? It's hard to know how to respond to this because it appears designed to be polarizing. One the one hand, RMS does not seem to have done anything particularly terrible and on the other hand people frothing at the mouth about the "woke" or "SJW"'s and them being members of a "hateful religion" are rightly seen as radicalized nutcases. What seems to be lacking on all sides of this is reasonableness.
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I do see what I did there. I recognized you as a frothing at the mouth, radicalized nutcase, lacking reasonableness. What did you think you were?
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What I did was simply point out that you are a hateful, intolerant woke cunt.
I didn't ask what you did. I'm perfectly capable of evaluating it for myself. Trying to pretend you're in any way reasonable is a joke. Also, I've always thought "woke" was a pretty dumb term. It was dumb when someone came up with it as typical short-lived slang for kids. It's the kind of thing that some adults try to adopt, but they just sound kind of foolish. I think it's extra dumb when it's being used by people like you who have latched onto it as a word to pour all your vitriol into.
There are serious d
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You. Need. Help.
Are you trying for a +5 Irony mod here?
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I look, yet another wokeist who is so up his own woke asshole that the only reply he can formulate to comments by the non woke is an ad hominem attack.
An ad hominem attack like "You. Need. Help."? Oh, wait, that was me quoting you! Holy cow, you really are going to a +5 Irony mod.
Re: (Score:2)
But that was not your first comment, YOU THICK SHIT.
No, it wasn't my first comment. It certainly appeared that you were referring to my most recent comment though.
Your first comment as an AD HOMINEM ATTACK, YOU THICK SHIT.
It included this LAUGHABLE section: "are rightly seen as radicalized nutcases. What seems to be lacking on all sides of this is reasonableness.", YOU THICK SHIT.
Your first comment, which my first comment was a reply to was:
The intolerant woke are gradually taking over the free software organisations and removing those who disagree with their hateful religion.
Once again, your inability to spot your own hypocrisy or basic irony is staggering to behold. As yet another irony, you think I'm the one who's thick.
So, you get a very, very fitting: Fuck Off You Hateful, Stupid, Woke Cunt.
Yes, yes, you're very busy and important and nothing is more important than your ego.
Re: (Score:2)
My proposal for restoring an open, free discussion is to prefix any conversation on a controversial topic with a warning that anyone who wants to virtue signal or be a cancel cunt should GTFO.
I know it's a little late to really be adding to this, but please, please tell me you can see the irony in this statement? If not, try reading it out loud. Maybe find someone whose opinion you respect and who you love, but who does not regularly participate in these kinds of conversations. Read it out loud to them and see what they think.
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Where is the irony? People who call you racist/traitors do not do it to demean you -- they do it to *threaten* you, to try to make you afraid of expressing your point of view: shut up or we will cancel your livelihood/freedom, because you know what we do with racists/traitors. It's an entirely different game from calling someone a moron, and idiot, and so on. The only effective response to verbal threats is verbal abuse until the person goes away. If you demean someone for expressing a view you're a dick an
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Where is the irony?
The irony is that you're going on about "cancel#$%#" and in the same sentence essentially proposing a system to pre-emptively cancel them. You people are so oblivious to your own hypocrisies, it's mind-boggling. Plus, I'm always waiting for one of you lot to actually clearly and concisely define what you mean by "virtue-signalling".
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That is called "intolerance towards intolerance" and is absolutely necessary. You welcome anyone with an opposing view, but cancel cunts kill discussion so you have to cancel them, preemptively or otherwise. The necessary intolerance towards them is a reaction to the intolerance they initiated.
Some call them cancel mob but they like being in the mob:
“The surest way to work up a crusade in favor of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destro
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That is called "intolerance towards intolerance" and is absolutely necessary. You welcome anyone with an opposing view, but cancel cunts kill discussion so you have to cancel them, preemptively or otherwise. The necessary intolerance towards them is a reaction to the intolerance they initiated.
Riiiight. It sounds a lot like you welcome anyone with an opposing view except for those ... with an actual opposing view. All of your vitriol and hatred is just because they're the "bad guys" and you're the "good guy".
Some call them cancel mob but they like being in the mob:
Do you ever take a step back and examine who you're listening to and where you're getting these ideas from? For example, who specifically calls people "the cancel mob". Is it perchance Tucker Carlson? People imitating Tucker Carlson? If so, does it worry you that you're just blindly imitating
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The word "cunt" in this context obviously nothing has to do with women; it describes a person's character.
One can try very hard to pretend that, for example, the students forcing a UCLA medical school professor to apologize for saying "pregnant women" or be fired are making an argument, but it is obvious those people threatened -- probably for the kick of it, see Huxley's quote -- and should be met with all verbal violence that the word cunt brings with it.
(The professor took the opposite course and gave th
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The word "cunt" in this context obviously nothing has to do with women; it describes a person's character.
Oh yes, absolutely no way that could come off as having anything to do with women or misogyny. It's just plain old crudity and lack of manners or decorum. Totally. One of the problems with connotations of words is that some of those connotations can attach to the speaker and judgement of the speaker can end up being sort of automatic. It can end up with you frustrated and angry because everyone is misinterpreting you and everyone pretty unimpressed with your protestations. Lots of people seem to have this i
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I learned something else in this discussion: to use the c-bomb on the cancel mob correctly, it is necessary to preserve respect the potency of the word: never throw it casually, and make sure whenever you invoke it you bring to mind the mob. That keeps the word sharp, potent and vile, like a punch.
Source for the UCLA story: https://bariweiss.substack.com... [substack.com]
(Bari Weiss is a former NYT journalists kicked out for not being Woke enough.)
Alternatively: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne... [dailymail.co.uk]
Feel free to interpret virt
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I learned something else in this discussion: to use the c-bomb on the cancel mob correctly, it is necessary to preserve respect the potency of the word: never throw it casually, and make sure whenever you invoke it you bring to mind the mob. That keeps the word sharp, potent and vile, like a punch.
Well yes. Any use of profanity should be reserved for when it's really, really needed. Otherwise it's like the boy who cried wolf. I've known people who swear pathologically, as in they insert profanity where normal (and it is abnormal) people would place a pause, or an "um" or a regular adjective, etc. It's a little jarring at first, but pretty soon you don't take anything they say seriously (come to think of it, every last one of them was also a habitual liar too). So, for myself and many others, excessiv
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Seems to me you are covering your eyes and ears and are repeating to yourself this is normal this is normal this is normal this is normal:
"During a recent endocrinology course at a top medical school in the University of California system, a professor stopped mid-lecture to apologize for something he'd said at the beginning of class.
"I don't want you to think that I am in any way trying to imply anything, and if you can summon some generosity to forgive me, I would really appreciate it," the physician says
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Seems to me you are covering your eyes and ears and are repeating to yourself this is normal this is normal this is normal this is normal:
Covering my eyes and ears and saying "...this is normal, this is normal...", no sorry, I think you have me confused with someone else. Jan 6th insurrection supporter maybe? Seriously though, normal is actually a moving target, always has been. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of university professors still say "pregnant women" and the vast number of university students don't go into a rage over it. Will they not say it in future? Who knows. Once upon a time, saying "pregnant women" was something that you p
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Suit yourself. I have seen that my tactics work: in a public discussion on a high profile site where you comment with your facebook, after they implied I am a "traitor" or "racist" on one thing or another I called them cunts -- cancel cunts -- and said if they want to keep making implied threats they are just asking to be verbally abused and I'd be happy to oblige. And they stopped. In subsequent discussions they resorted to stupid insults from time to time -- sometimes I responded in kind, sometimes not be
Free will survive (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems like the one thing we should've achieved by that is some end to this nonsense about some imaginary wave of woken-ness. I guess you're just trolling, trying to drag the conversation so you get more approving pats on the head from strangers on the internet who are more interested in saying "I too dislike your imaginary waves of woken-ness." But even if that's your game....
It has nothing whatsoever to do with Richard Stallman. Who is back at the Free Software Foundation, and has been for quite some time.
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Who is back at the Free Software Foundation, and has been for quite some time.
I think you're leaving out a bit there. Yes he's back, the question is if FSF is still the powerhouse it was, especially considering many prominent open source projects as well as associations such as the EFF have cut ties with the FSF as a result.
He may be back, but he sure isn't back in the place that he was, that position, that business card title, has a significant amount of stigma attached to it compared to what it was.
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Sadly it seems like the FSF has become somewhat irrelevant. Look at the "exciting" software RMS talks about, a clone of Skype that nobody uses, and a clone of Minecraft that nobody plays.
Libreboot is struggling because of the problems that he mentions, basically vendors locking their hardware down and not publishing specs. That has been a problem for decades and the FSF has not made much progress on solving it.
As much as I respect Stallman's past work, I think right now the FSF needs some new leadership who
Re:Free will survive (Score:4, Interesting)
As much as I respect Stallman's past work, I think right now the FSF needs some new leadership who can make it relevant again. Get some major players on-board
The inherent problem with that idea is that the major players are strongly incentivized to shit all over anything resembling Software or Hardware Libre. What you need is an up-and-comer, and also a convincing explanation as to how supporting the Free Software (etc.) movement is going to be profitable for them.