New York Passes a Bill To Limit Bitcoin Mining (engadget.com) 84
New York lawmakers have passed a bill that would temporarily ban new bitcoin mining operations. Early on Friday, state senators voted 36-27 to pass the legislation. It's now bound for the desk of Governor Kathy Hochul, who will sign it into law or veto the bill. The law would come into effect immediately after it's signed. From a report: An attempt to enact similar legislation last year hit a wall when the New York State Senate passed it but Assembly members did not. The latest bill passed the Assembly in April. The legislation seeks to establish a two-year moratorium on licenses for cryptocurrency mining operations that use power-hungry proof-of-work authentication methods for validating blockchain transactions. Right now, bitcoin and ethereum (the two largest cryptocurrencies) fall under that category, though the latter is shifting to a different setup. The moratorium only covers mining operations that run on carbon-based power sources. Any that harness entirely renewable energy sources or an alternative to proof of work that requires less power won't be affected. Existing operations and those already going through a permit renewal process won't be impacted either.
Re: So, they are searching private dwellings, etc? (Score:1)
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Not to mention those businesses who a making big bucks mining, use a huge amount of power, if you were to try to do that at home, the power utility will notice it, and your home will probably will need a power upgrade, in which the utility may say you will need a license for that much power.
However this is also like many residential vs commercial zoning laws. You can run a business from your home, however if caught you can get in trouble, if that violates zoning laws. And chances are in nearly every neighb
Tell them you are growing marijuana. (Score:1)
If the electric utility asks why you are using so much electricity then just tell them you are growing marijuana. In a Democrat run state like New York they'd almost certainly leave you alone after that.
Re: Tell them you are growing marijuana. (Score:2)
At least with MJ you get a buzz.
With crypto we get a bunch of bullshit and insane, stupid crap like Bored Apes Yacht Club.
Re: So, they are searching private dwellings, etc (Score:2)
"Not to mention those businesses who a making big bucks mining, use a huge amount of power, if you were to try to do that at home, the power utility will notice it, and your home will probably will need a power upgrade, in which the utility may say you will need a license for that much power"
And the bitqoiners just can't get enough, and start tampering with the electrical system, running additional lines from the pole, bypassing saftey mechanisms etc, all of the usual cowboy work.
And then th
Behind The Meter (Score:5, Informative)
Distilling even further, it applies to permits: "FOR AN ELECTRIC GENERATING FACILITY THAT UTILIZES A CARBON-BASED FUEL AND THAT PROVIDES, IN WHOLE OR IN PART, BEHIND-THE-METER ELECTRIC ENERGY CONSUMED OR UTILIZED BY CRYPTOCURRENCY MINING OPERATIONS THAT USE PROOF-OF-WORK AUTHENTICATION METHODS TO VALIDATE BLOCKCHAIN TRANSACTIONS."
This bill clearly targets large power generation installations (which are already regulated) where the "behind the meter" usage supports mining. This means whatever you generate that you don't send back to the grid. They're asking for environmental impact statements before approving or renewing such permits.
It doesn't mention the level of power generation requires regulation in the linked regulation, but it certainly doesn't apply to adding a few solar panels on your roof or even a diesel generator in the back yard. This is targeting organizations that are building large carbon-based power plants, and again this is something that was already regulated. The only difference now is that if you're building the plant to supply mining operations, you're going to have to wait for approval.
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It doesn't mention the level of power generation requires regulation in the linked regulation, but it certainly doesn't apply to adding a few solar panels on your roof or even a diesel generator in the back yard.
Thank you for the Informative post. It says "CARBON-BASED FUEL", so that rules out solar panels. But where does it say that the geneeator in your backyard does not apply?
Or are you just wishing and hoping that NY will not use this law to begin arbitrary inspections of people's homes and buildings, claiming that they might be using too much electricity for unapproved purposes?
This seems like it would let the police or government show up on your doorstep, probably without a warrant (or a no-knock warrant), or
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You know, instead of just going on a stupid tirade, you could read the bill. The bill doesn't make anything illegal. It just says they will not ISSUE PERMITS for new power plants used for crypto mining. Permits are required for sites with more than 25MW of generation. No, your puny backyard generator does not count.
And what kind of idiot thinks solar panels are 'fuel'?
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You should seek professional help for your unbelievable paranoia.
No judge is going to issue a no-knock warrant for crypto mining. No-knock warrants are meant for exigent circumstances or to prevent destruction of evidence, such as flushing a brick of cocaine down the toilet. If you're running a crypto operation big enough to give probable cause for a warrant, you're not going to be able to forensically wipe the drives and dispose of all of that equipment in the time it takes for them to perform standard warrant service.
First of all, the block that you're computing is probably less than a megabyte. How long does is take to push a panic button and wipe out 50 megabytes?
Also, there is no such thing as "forensic wiping" in any serious sense. Years ago, it was theoretically possible to use technologies like Scanning Electron Microscopy to statistically recover partial data from disk drives that had merely written zeros on a deleted file. So the government developed this isea of re-writing multiple patterns of false bits over t
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establish a two-year moratorium on licenses for cryptocurrency mining operations
Now i would wager that a private dwelling is not applying for licenses as a "cryptocurrency mining operation"
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What's the difference? Is business co2 from bitcoin worse then individual johnny co2?
I still don't see how this is enforceable though.
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Re: So, they are searching private dwellings, etc? (Score:2)
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You posted exactly what I was thinking. What will I not be able to plug into my outlets next exactly?
Marihuana-growing lamps?
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If you're mining in any relevant volume of note, the amount of electricity draw will be pretty conspicuous. They can tell how much electricity you're using without kicking in any doors. They already have used meter reading to identify illegal indoor marijuana growing operations going back decades; there's precedent for this.
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This law limits behind the meter electricity usage, it won't show on the electric utility bill.
They don't want people running big generators or abandoned power plants for crypto mining.
If New York would only build more nuclear power plants then maybe they could get lower CO2 emissions, lower energy costs, and not drive businesses into other states. New York is going to have to build more nuclear power plants, see CO2 emissions rise, or see their economy shrink as energy supplies run thin. There is no four
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In what way does the law limit electricity usage? I think you're quite mistaken about that. Also, they don't even have to see your bill to look at the meter on the building.
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The petroleum companies won't even let them tap into Quebec's abundent hydro power, your dreaming if you think they'd allow nuclear
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The people that run the petroleum companies have to pay their electric bills like everyone else. They aren't going to stop nuclear power forever because even they have breaking points.
I have trouble believing petroleum companies give a dam about hydroelectric power. Petroleum is barely about energy any more, it's making money on lubricants, fertilizers, plastics, and chemicals of all kinds used to make all kinds of commodities.
If the petroleum industry has some say in this then they can't hold back demand
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Well here's an article about it, it was actually electricity for New England and $100 million was spent on the fight to allow the transmission line, with the chief opponent NextEra Energy Inc (NEE.N) which generates power using fossil fuels. https://www.reuters.com/world/... [reuters.com]
Short term profits win against long term plans and nuclear is a long term commitment.
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If you're mining in any relevant volume of note, the amount of electricity draw will be pretty conspicuous.
Yes like grow lamps. But we're not talking about big operations. We're talking about someone in their basement burning up a dozen graphics cards.
Although I think they could do an electricity "fingerprint". Or maybe just the EMI from the computers ("He has too many computers! One piece of Reasonable Articulable Suspicion.").
But the main giveaway is that they see you have a "backup" power generator in your back yard, that is in operation for no apparent reason.
I guess just do mining when there's a power outag
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Look for distinctive electricity usage patterns?
Or maybe watch for parties celebrating striking it rich? Well, virtual rich.
But I'm just here for the popcorn. Empty calories? More real nutritional value in the popcorn than in any of the cryptocurrencies.
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Has been going on for a long time to find people that grow weed indoors. I know of a few cases where they expected to find plants and found crypto-miners instead. It is basically a far too high and very constant base-load.
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They just want to bring back illegal math.
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In your rush to have a rabid knee-jerk reaction, you completely missed the keyword "licenses" there. Hell, you don't even need to read the article, you can just read the blurb here to realize that this is about commercial mining farms.
It is about unlicensed crypto mining, which includes what's going on in your basement. However, if you're sucking electricity from the grid, rather than running your own generator, this law might not apply.
I wonder what how the licensing arrangements work -- what percentage of your fresh new Bitcoins will be required to pay the license fee?
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It is not about 'unlicensed crypto mining'. In NYS, (and I imagine most other places) you need a permit to operate a power plant (defined in NYS as 25MW or more). They will not grant such a permit if your generation is for crypto mining.
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How is it legal for the state to tell you what to do with a freely accessible utility service you pay for on your private space/property?
Because resources are finite and your money doesn't give you the right to be wasteful at the expense of others. You may have enough money to buy every roll of TP on the shelves, but that's still wrong because other people need to wipe their rear ends, too.
There are established federal efficiency standards for vehicles, HVAC equipment, home appliances, and even toilets. Proof-of-work cryptocurrency is long overdue for the same level of regulatory scrutiny regarding its wastefulness.
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Well, while it might not be the nice thing to do...it IS perfectly legal.
Unless you are promoting that the government ration out and tell you exactly how much of everything you can buy with your money on the open market.
Err, in a free and open society,
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Unless you are promoting that the government ration out and tell you exactly how much of everything you can buy with your money on the open market.
Usually, businesses enforce rationing on their own so that people don't start asking for the government to step in. The power utility I have here in Florida uses progressive rates, where the first 1000 kw/h is billed at a lower rate than all usage above 1000 kw/h. This disincentives waste, while still being fair to people with lower incomes.
I'd completely support the idea of billing crypto miners at a higher rate, provided the extra money goes towards adding renewable energy sources to the grid. The real
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I'd completely support the idea of billing crypto miners at a higher rate, provided the extra money goes towards adding renewable energy sources to the grid.
Not all renewable energy sources are equal. For one thing they can vary widely on costs. There's many places to look for cost estimates but they have a general agreement that rooftop solar, solar thermal, biomass, and offshore wind are quite expensive. Here's one such source, scroll down for the helpful chart than read the entire article:
https://www.iea.org/reports/pr... [iea.org]
Subsidies for expensive energy doesn't lower the actual costs, it just hides the costs the economy bears in clever accounting. Solar is
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How is it legal for the state to tell you what to do with a freely accessible utility service you pay for on your private space/property?
Because resources are finite and your money doesn't give you the right to be wasteful at the expense of others.
Actually, that is exactly what money gives you the right to do. Comrade.
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This has been done for a long time now. For example, indoor Cannabis farms are usually found by the power profiles from the lamps used. In fact, several bitcoin farms were already found because they were mistaken for an indoor Cannabis farm. Also easier to get a judge to sign off on, at least where the anti-drug assholes are still criminalizing Cannabis.
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The answer is in the Slashdot summary above. Next time, read at least the summary, before you get your panties in a wad.
From the summary: "The legislation seeks to establish a two-year moratorium on licenses for cryptocurrency mining operations"
And when you say, "what you are doing with your electricity YOU pay for?", I am guessing you are implying that YOU should be allowed to do whatever
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Well, YES I do think so.
As long as you are doing a legal activity...and last I heard, running a program to generate numbers, etc on a computer was 100% legal.
As for the rest, we DO still live in a capitalist system last I heard.
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The bill doesn't say you can't mine bitcoin, it says you can't run a fossil-fuel based POWER PLANT for the purpose of mining bitcoin. As for as 'as long as what you are doing is a legal activity' - that is just dumb. The law makes it an ILLEGAL activity. That is what laws do.
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Funny, until recently, it was something most American Citizens, regardless of political persuasion freely used and was a recognizable thing to be watched for.
Hell, our founding fathers were quite familiar with it, and established quite a few safeguards in the set of the Federal Govt. to try to avoid it.
I don't believe there was a GOP way back then either.
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This is the way it's been for decades, it's the status quo.
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Don't be silly. "Government overreach" is doubletalk for "any government regulation I don't like."
Re:So, they are searching private dwellings, etc? (Score:5, Insightful)
You are undoubtedly modded as 'troll' because you didn't bother to learn anything about the subject before making your stupid comments. The law isn't prohibiting you from mining bitcoin, and it isn't telling you what you can do with 'a freely accessibly utility service that you pay for'. It is telling you you will not get a PERMIT to build a fossil-fuel based power plant for mining bitcoin.
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Wow..modded to zero as "troll"?
I guess the ultra left wing green crowd doesn't even want you to question things like potential govt overreach anymore.
Some people from both sides of the political aisle do this on Slashdot when they have mod points. I blame Reddit for perpetuating the belief that it is acceptable forum etiquette to downmod as a way of expressing disagreement.
If the topic is even slightly political, you basically have to browse at -1. Yeah, there's the occasional swastika "ASCII art" and dumb copypasta trolls, but there's also a lot of stuff that gets modded down only because someone had an axe to grind.
Re:So, they are searching private dwellings, etc? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm just wondering if you ever bother to either read or understand a story before spouting your usual irrelevant off topic bullshit.
Try reading TFS again, maybe you'll realise how stupid your question is.
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because it's new york. it's not quite california, but it's pretty close.
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Re: So, they are searching private dwellings, etc? (Score:2)
"I'm just wondering how the fuck officials in NY know what you are doing with your electricity YOU pay for?"
All they have to do is check if there is an unusually high load coming from a certain location.
They won't catch the lone PC doing a mining operation, but if you got a mining farm in your garage and you are making your neighbor's lights go dim, yeah you are going to have a problem.
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How is it legal for the state to tell you what to do with a freely accessible utility service you pay for on your private space/property?
Are you allowed to install a load of lamps and grow marijuana with this "free utility" on your own property?
NY State vs NYC (Score:2)
Kathy Hochul restricting cryptocurrency on the state level, when the current NYC Mayor, Eric Adams took his first paycheck in crypto [nyc.gov] seems to be the start of them being at odds again.
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There has always been tension between New York City and Albany (the state capital)
With 42% of the state population in New York City, the Mayor has a lot of power, and while the overall State other 58% in upstate has different issues then the NYC has. Means the laws passed in Albany are not always the best for NYC (from the mayors perspective). However because NYC does have a big concentration of population it does have a heck of a lot of sway what laws are passed in the State Government, meaning the genera
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Ohhhh, My State... (Score:4, Interesting)
So, about a month ago, I got a call from a pollster asking about my views regarding some potential climate change initiatives. Many of those initiatives involved banning sales of gas-burning things, namely stoves, water heaters, furnaces, dryers, and of course, cars.
So, I did a little research, and over 80% of the electricity in this state is produced by burning oil and natural gas. A handful of windmills and a token amount of solar panels and hydro round out the rest, but there doesn't seem to be movement in shifting power generation to green / renewable sources. Notably, "would you be in favor of building a new nuclear / wind / solar / whatever plant" wasn't a part of the survey, only banning things that burn gas, replacing them with electrical equivalents.
Thus, I was forced to conclude that burning natural gas and oil are only okay in New York when residents pay $0.13/kWh to do it, converting from heat to electricity and in most cases, back to heat.
That is how NY, one of the bluest states in the union, does 'green' - not solving the issues, just kicking the can. Today it's cryptocurrency mining that they can ban, and they probably won't get much pushback for it given the 'recession' the sector is facing. However, even if all cryptocurrency mining stops tomorrow, and if even a few percent of the gas dryers and furnaces and cars go electric as they seem to want to mandate, you can bet that net usage will go up rather than down, exacerbating the problem rather than actually solving it.
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What does that have to do with trying to reduce usage of a limited resource for mining Ponzi coins? Electricity usage has always gone up over time. Ever since it was made available to general public.
Trying to reduce waste and implementing more green generation are not directly relat
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The idea is that if, at some point, they do get off their ass and improve the "greenness" of the grid, the electrical appliances come along for the ride.
Same thing happened here in Florida. Back when the Tesla model S first came out, out of sour grapes (over not being able to afford it), I looked up how miserably bad our electrical grid was. I concluded that Musk was selling what would essentially be a natural gas powered car. In the years since, the grid has actually improved slightly (it's up to approx
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The idea is that if, at some point, they do get off their ass and improve the "greenness" of the grid, the electrical appliances come along for the ride.
Oh, I get what the idea is...but it's pretty terrible to be like, "we're going to force you to buy replacement appliances you don't need, to stop using you from burning fossil fuels that will still get burned, in the event we build a power plant we haven't determined, in a place we haven't agreed upon, whose power output we haven't meaningfully compared".
When the plan is formed that way, it's telling. If Kathy was like, "climate change is a massive problem; by the end of my term we'll find a solution for 20
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That is how NY, one of the bluest states in the union, does 'green' - not solving the issues, just kicking the can.
That's been the Democrat energy policy for the last 50 years. It's a "Meatloaf" energy policy, we can anything for energy but we won't do "that".
Ever since the Carter administration drove a stake through the heart of civil nuclear power the Democrat party has been kicking the problem down the road. They've done study after study that tell them what has to be done but so long as existing nuclear power plants keep running, providing 20% of our electricity, they keep kicking the problem down the road looking
Power Consumption of NYSE? (Score:2)
How does crypto mining energy consumption compare to Wall Street and NYSE energy consumptions?
I'd bet a crypto coin that crypto energy is negligible compared to 'established' financial energy consumption!
Maybe they should moratorium any increase in high speed trading!
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Total energy is always a pointless metric. One always needs to consider the utility of using that energy. What benefit that energy provides.
The NYSE provides a trading platform for stocks. Quite efficiently too handling several million trades a day.
Crypto mining provides fuck all for anyone. Quite inefficiently too burning several weeks worth of a household energy for each fuck-all transaction.
Maybe they should moratorium any increase in high speed trading!
Maybe they should moratorium on silly Slashdot posts.
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The markets benefit ordinary people, trillions of dollars of retirement account money in there, one estimate is 13 trillion.
If you haven't been contributing to your retirement however little a month, that's on you.
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Stocks are shares of ownership in a company that has worth and contributes to national income and GDP, bitcoin are shares of gambling token with no intrinsic worth and no utility.
Apples and kumquats.
oi where is your power usage loicense mate (Score:2)
imagine requiring someone's permission to use electricity the way you see fit
Dubious legality (Score:2)
I'm guessing the licenses referenced in the summary are for the power generation and not the mining operations themselves. It makes sense to regulate large-scale power generation for safety reasons, after all; that being said, on what legal basis can the State of NY prevent you from safely operating a power generation facility based on how you use the power? It's not like they're charging up a death ray or anything.
To make matters worse, mining operations are strictly under the umbrella of interstate comme
They'll move to commercial rates (Score:1)
I guess what they'll do is rent a lockup on an industrial estate.
In the USA, regulation usually hesitates when it comes to business.
Butthurt Bunny Huggers (Score:1)
So what happened was a company bought a shuttered 100 MW coal plant, converted it to natural gas and uses about 1/3rd of it's output for crypto mining behind the meter and puts the rest on the grid to be sold as wholesale power. Then some bunny huggers got butthurt because they said that the once-through cooling of this /plant was heating up Seneca Lake with and hurting the fish in a lake that has a surface area of 67 sq miles and an average depth of 300 feet. The reality is these plants discharge water t