Brexit Row Could Prompt Exodus of Senior Scientists From UK (theguardian.com) 152
The UK is facing an exodus of star scientists, with at least 16 recipients of prestigious European grants making plans to move their labs abroad as the UK remains frozen out of the EU's flagship science programme. From a report: Britain's participation in Horizon Europe has been caught in the crosshairs of the dispute over Brexit in Northern Ireland, meaning that 143 UK-based recipients of European Research Council fellowships this week faced a deadline of either relinquishing their grant or transferring it to an institute in an eligible country. The UK government has promised to underwrite the funding, totalling about 250m pound ($307m), but a growing number of scientists appear likely to reject the offer and instead relocate, along with entire teams of researchers.
The ERC said 16 academics had recently informed it that they intend to move their lab abroad or are in negotiations about doing so. These researchers, and some others, have been given an extension before their grants are terminated. Moritz Treeck, a group leader at the Francis Crick Institute in London who is due to receive $2.1m over five years from the ERC to study the malaria pathogen, is among those contemplating a move. He said a major downside of the UK offer was the lack of flexibility about moving the funding internationally.
The ERC said 16 academics had recently informed it that they intend to move their lab abroad or are in negotiations about doing so. These researchers, and some others, have been given an extension before their grants are terminated. Moritz Treeck, a group leader at the Francis Crick Institute in London who is due to receive $2.1m over five years from the ERC to study the malaria pathogen, is among those contemplating a move. He said a major downside of the UK offer was the lack of flexibility about moving the funding internationally.
Frozen out? Or opted out? (Score:5, Insightful)
the UK remains frozen out of the EU's flagship science programme
Frozen out? Really? So I assume there are a number of other non-EU countries that are participating?
Knowing nothing about it, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that, no, there aren't. Oddly enough big political spending projects tend to focus on buying good will from populations that can influence the politicians' power.
Which would mean that the UK isn't "frozen out" - it *opted* out.
Now maybe I'm wrong about that in this case, but it seems like every few days I see a new story slanted towards how the mean old EU is bullying the poor UK by not continuing to extend them the benefits of EU membership. "Oh no, we're having to deal with all the shit that everyone warned us about" gets really old.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
Which would mean that the UK isn't "frozen out" - it *opted* out.
I'm inclined to avoid characterizing it as either. I'm guessing that "unintended consequences of the decision" would be a better description.
Few that promoted for or voted for "Brexit" had a clue just how it would unfold and how wide ranging the effects would be.
Re:Frozen out? Or opted out? (Score:5, Insightful)
It was a consequence that was debated intensely before Brexit and the Brexit lobby claimed it would all work out. So it was an ancicipated (by 48%) but unintended (by 52%) of voters.
Re:Frozen out? Or opted out? (Score:5, Insightful)
Few that promoted for or voted for "Brexit" had a clue just how it would unfold and how wide ranging the effects would be.
Nobody needed to know the details of "how it would unfold or how wide ranging the effects would be". Anybody with a modicum of life experience should know that such big moves almost always have unforeseen and undesirable consequences. And I don't recall Britain launching years-long studies to make even an educated guess at what the fallout might be. They got pissy and full of bravado, and they loaded and fired a gun without checking whether or not it was pointed at their foot. Now they're limping. How badly and for how long remains to be seen.
Re: (Score:2)
Britain didn't even stick to what the official Vote Leave campaign advertised brexit to be. We were not supposed to lave the Single Market at all.
Re: (Score:2)
>Few that promoted for or voted for "Brexit" had a clue just how it would unfold and how wide ranging the effects would be.
I'll maybe believe that of a lot of the "voted for" crowd - though they have no excuse since they were roundly warned of the consequences but chose to ignore them. Wilful ignorance never an acceptable excuse.
Those promoting it though? I'm fairly certain they knew perfectly - you don't get into the halls of power without being reasonably well-informed about politics. Just because t
Re: (Score:3)
I suppose Joe Average voter might not have realized the consequences, but anybody who was paying attention did. There were a lot of articles in the years leading up to the referendum on this exact topic.
I'm kind of surprised it took so long actually. I thought all this had already shaken out.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Frozen out? Or opted out? (Score:2)
Sixteen scientists found better funding in another country and are considering moving.
Re: Frozen out? Or opted out? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
The vindictive cunts are the fucking retards that brought about the brexit disaster, and now try to blame the EU for their huge mistake. Decisions have consequences, suck it up princess.
Re:Frozen out? Or opted out? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure they did - and they still do. But the EU lowered trade barriers and improved cooperation between member countries. You can hardly expect to continue benefiting from that when you're no longer a member. Those benefits were kind of the point of the EU. You're on the outside now - why would anyone believe the politicians and pundits when they claimed you would get special treatment compared to other non-members?
Re: (Score:2)
>The EU has only existed for 31 years
European Economic Community was founded 1 January 1958..
> Prior to that, European countries traded
Yes, but at volumes that were a really small fraction of now.
UK is seeing first hand why that is the case, as EU has removed almost all the bureaucracy of cross border trade within EU, the change to being outside is.. huge.
>European people traveled and European scientists engaged in research.
Yes, but almost all of it was within one country. There were extremly few p
Re: (Score:2)
I don't understand this...Switzerland hasn't ever been part of the EU, and indeed they recently withdrew their application, yet their GDP per capita is higher than all but one EU state. I don't see how being outside of the EU can be so bad. Furthermore, there are a number of non-EU countries that are way ahead of the entire EU in terms of science, technology, and engineering, including the US, China, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and a number of others.
Re: (Score:3)
It is because of different factors:
Switzerland: it is mostly it's banking sector, they have some other things too, but if you look at their trade or manufacturing situation, you can see the problems they have. And they are definitely ahead of EU in most things, only money really. (BAnking is the reason why Luxemburg, is rich per capita too)
US: Several factors, including taking a lot less damage in WW2, They do have NAFTA as trade area similar to EU, huge transportation advantage in the Mississippi river,
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Note that I used "Had" in the work ethic for Japanese and how they have fallen behind more and more.
Japan today is not the one that got high rise in production in the past. Japan also has a huge demographic crisis and is running out of workers.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, we could form a protest march through London... except the new Police Powers Bill has made it illegal.
Re: (Score:2)
seriously?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
But it is not only a UK problem. They are everywhere. I do have the impression though that Brexit and Trump increased awareness. The more moderate people are realizing this is not the way. Fingers crossed...
Re: (Score:2)
Yep.
Before Brexit: Blame the EU for everything you don't like.
After Brexit: Blame the EU for everything you don't like.
Re:Frozen out? Or opted out? (Score:5, Informative)
EU exit and the Northern Ireland Protocol [nidirect.gov.uk]
It was signed and agreed as part of the main Withdrawal Agreement. It has the status of an international treaty. However, now that the UK has left the EU, the government (that signed the Protocol) have decided they don't like it, and unilaterally want to change it. This hasn't gone down well with the EU (which is understandable), and one of the consequences has been that the UK's participation in the EU's "Horizon Europe" program has been delayed until the issue is resolved. I would imagine that if the UK Government decide to proceed with their unilateral action, the UK's participation in the Horizon program will be terminated.
I suppose the simple message is; if you sign an international agreement, it may be best to keep to it if you want to maintain good relationships!
Re:Frozen out? Or opted out? (Score:5, Insightful)
What's worse, it's painfully obvious that the UK government never had any intention of upholding their end of the deal WRT the NI protocol.
The plan was obviously to sign up to it in order to get the Brexit deal out of the door, and then immediately rip up the NI protocol. Not amend or improve it, rip it up. Completely.
Of course they're claiming now that it doesn't work at all, yada yada. Maybe if they hadn't started to whine before the ink was dry on the signatures, and maybe if they had left the portions of the protocol alone that clearly have negligible practical implications (the ECJ role mostly), they'd have a shred of credibility left.
But the ideologists couldn't wait. The UK has acted in rottenly bad faith here.
Re:Frozen out? Or opted out? (Score:4, Insightful)
A Sky News journalist had the balls to ask Boris Johnson if he was furious with Boris Johnson for signing this terrible, unworkable deal.
Our reputation is in the toilet now. It's clear that the Withdrawal Agreement was made in bad faith, with no intention of keeping it. It's not the only example, the government recently lied in court that the UN Human Rights Commission said that their deal with Rwanda to accept people claiming asylum in the UK was fine, when in fact the UN told them it was illegal.
The only trade deals we have managed to do have been one sided. The Australians could hardly believe what we signed up to. Of course we might not have been serious about actually sticking to it. Who is going to want to do a deal with us now though, when we quite openly and brazenly break treaties we signed just months prior.
Re: (Score:2)
In fairness to the guy, once Brexit was passed by voters, there was no good option.
Re: (Score:2)
Then he should not have lied about how good it was going to be and the 350GBP million a week we where going to save and spend on the NHS instead. Boris campaigned for Brexit, on the basis that it was going to be fantastic for the UK, so the fact that is not is in part at least his fault.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Frozen out? Or opted out? (Score:5, Informative)
the UK remains frozen out of the EU's flagship science programme
Frozen out? Really? So I assume there are a number of other non-EU countries that are participating?
Yes: Armenia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, the Faroe Islands, Georgia, Iceland, Israel, Kosovo*, Moldova, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Norway, Serbia and Turkey. https://ec.europa.eu/info/news... [europa.eu]
Associate membership is a thing: https://ec.europa.eu/info/site... [europa.eu]
However, these things have to be negotiated and whilst the UK is trying to pull a Vader over the Northern Ireland Agreement ("I have altered the deal"), it's pretty hard to get any new agreements signed (who would have thought).
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, there are many other non-EU countries participating. The UK has agreed as part of the Brexit negotiation to become an associate country, which would allow them to take part in Horizon, in return for paying in.
Unfortunately, this was all agreed at the last minute in principle. From the UK side it was never clear where the money was going to come from (i.e. existing science budgets or previous EU budgets) which obviously makes a difference to UK science. In addition, it was an agreement in principle. Sin
Re: (Score:2)
... it seems like every few days I see a new story slanted towards how the mean old EU is bullying the poor UK by not continuing to extend them the benefits of EU membership.
Perhaps it's because I thought Brexit was stupid and short-sighted - just like its main architect BoJo - but I didn't read the story as painting "the mean old EU" as a villain. I read it as "Britain surrendered their membership in the EU so they no longer enjoy membership benefits". If anything, this is a cautionary tale about the dangers of trying to eat your cake and have it too.
Re: (Score:2)
Frozen out? Really? So I assume there are a number of other non-EU countries that are participating?
Knowing nothing about it, I'm going to
...say something provably ignorant and wrong, which you could have avoided trivially with a quick google search. Are you new?
Now maybe I'm wrong about that in this case, but it seems like every few days I see a new story slanted towards how the mean old EU is bullying the poor UK by not continuing to extend them the benefits of EU membership.
That's how you're reading it. As I read it, the UK fucked themselves. And while we know you didn't RTFA (you were too lazy to google, you certainly didn't read the article) the article itself doesn't give the UK a free pass.
Re: (Score:2)
Like I'm going to bother digging around for details on internal politics on the other side of the world. This is Slashdot, be glad I read the summary.
I did clearly state the ignorance of my opinion - I figures that makes me far more honest than most, and would hopefully
>That's how you're reading it.
Oh? Does "frozen out" not carry malicious overtones where you're from?
Re: (Score:2)
Nah, here it just means you washed your car between mid September and late June.
If only someone had seen this sort of thing coming (Score:2)
Oh wait...
I like that literally nobody wants Brexit (Score:2, Insightful)
Assuming their democracy survives they'll rejoin in 10-15 years when those old coots die off. Assuming it does.
America's pretty touch and go. The more I learn about Jan 6th the more I understand we came a
Re:I like that literally nobody wants Brexit (Score:5, Insightful)
However, once the vote had taken place, "Brexit" was taken by many in the governing party and others to mean the hardest Brexit possible, which in the end was what they went for but was not necessarily what everyone voting for Brexit voted for. (It also didn't take into account the sizeable minority who - like me - voted to remain in the EU).
We are now facing the consequences of this. Caveat Emptor applies, I'm afraid!
Re:I like that literally nobody wants Brexit (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem was that at the time of the vote what "Brexit" meant was never fully explained to the voters.
If you don't understand something, you vote against it. Unless, that is, you're an easily led simpleton.
But the problem wasn't that it wasn't fully explained to voters, the problem is that the pro-brexit crew willfully and deliberately lied to voters again and again.
Re: (Score:2)
Unfortunately the British electorate didn't understand the Alternative Vote either. While far from perfect, it is a lot better than what we have now.
Sometimes it's a good idea to listen to experts, but as we know, idiots had had enough of them and thought they knew best.
Re: (Score:2)
Sometimes it's a good idea to listen to experts, but as we know, idiots had had enough of them and thought they knew best.
I just don't get why anyone still listens to BJ. That guy has conclusively proven that he is on the wrong side of every issue. I get Trump, because he's a good manipulator of crowds of idiots, but BJ can't even do crowd work. His followers have to manipulate themselves.
Re: (Score:2)
I disagree that Brexit was not fully explained as much as the pro Brexit side lied about the benefits while omitting or minimizing the disadvantages. For example the pro Brexit side has tried to paint poor UK as being under the thumb of "Brussels" when it came to EU regulations while omitting the fact that as a member of the EU, the UK always had a hand in drafting those regulations. While it is true than leaving the EU meant the UK never had to follow EU regulations again, the pro Brexit side downplayed th
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
The Brits decided to leave, the EU wished they wouldn't but the Brits listened to dolts like the former alleged president. He hates anything with adult oversight like NATO and the EU because he cannot pick off stragglers and declare astounding victories over stupid small-ball. The Yank's police are currently being modified, it takes time. Unlike what you and your moron hero believe, "fixes" do not come overnight so that one can crow about what a great bigly victory they've achieved.
The U.S. didn't come wit
Re: (Score:2)
it (the US) came within a hair's breath of civil war
Um, no. Not even close despite what some would have you believe. The majority of the Republican party abandon that idea and Trump before Jan 6 and many of those that didn't abandon him on Jan 6. The only reason that politicians still think Trump has the ability to change an election is because they use Twitter where only the crazies talk politics. Only in close primaries does Trump have any sway. Trump's support hasn't been very helpful during the current primary season.
Re: (Score:2)
Assuming their democracy survives they'll rejoin in 10-15 years when those old coots die off. Assuming it does.
Whether it will or not is an open question, but I guarantee you they're not getting to keep the UKP next time if they do...
Re: (Score:2)
Veterans are civilians, but that aside all throughout the history of the US you have the occasional president that isn't a veteran. The second president wasn't a veteran, for example. In all there have been 16 presidents who weren't veterans, so they definitely are the minority as that is roughly a third of the 45 total (Grover Cleveland was 22nd and 24th, making Biden the 45th rather than the 46th.)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
More conspiracy theory junk. Go vote for Trump, loser.
Is this some sort of 5D chess where you deny reality and then try to shout loudly that everyone else is a conspiracy monger with the hope you can drown out the truth? Takes a special kind of wanker to be so cynical.
https://www.electoralcommissio... [electoralc...ion.org.uk]
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-... [bbc.co.uk]
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/... [bbc.co.uk]
Now go crawl back under your rock.
Re:I like that literally nobody wants Brexit (Score:5, Insightful)
That's pretty much how it works. In the recent fight to protect rail transit in Santa Cruz (which, BTW, the rail side won) I've recently been accused of being a "Trumpist" for promoting rail and in general public transit, a solidly liberal value. And there's piles of dark money that were poured into the anti-rail pockets, and when you point that out they accuse you of being a conspiracy theorist. It's not a conspiracy, it's a fucking fact that anonymous parties dumped hundreds of thousands of dollars into trying to shut down rail in just this one county. They took out multiple full page ads in the local garbage paper (The "Sentinel", known locally as the "Senile", is incompetent at everything from journalism to print alignment) which also printed without comment a number of their blatantly fraudulent editorials.
It is, plain and simple, the Goebbels tactic of accusing your enemy of whatever you are doing in order to make them look weak when they accuse you of the same thing. It is a literal Nazi tactic which everyone seems to think it's OK to use now.
Re:I like that literally nobody wants Brexit (Score:4, Informative)
It is a literal Nazi tactic which everyone seems to think it's OK to use now.
You are correct that the NAZI's used it. It comes from Marxism however. It is one of the few parts of Marxism that the NAZI kept along with the word Socialism. Marxism has a propaganda component that includes this and several other familiar but underhanded tactics. But being accused of being a Trumpist for supporting rail, now that is really crazy.
Re: (Score:2)
But being accused of being a Trumpist for supporting rail, now that is really crazy.
What's really special is that I was accused of this by Brad Kava, Chair of the Journalism department at Cabrillo College, on a public discussion on Facebook.
I went to Cabrillo briefly as a teenager, and it was a universally poor experience. Yuba College in Marysville turned out to be a much better school. I see they're still maintaining their low standards at Cabrillo.
So while I'm not a Marxist (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't recall anything about this kind of propaganda. Marx did have feelings about who should be approached to carry out the revolution (not the peasants). He might have had feelings about how they should be approached, but given that he published al
Re: (Score:2)
Consequences.. (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
But that's OK because in the 6 months back home they'll be able to have crown marks on pint glasses and buy stuff in pounds and ounces. Oh you say that was in fact never banned?
huh.
Re:Consequences.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Nobody is learning anything. Learning requires admitting that the decision was wrong. Cognitive dissonance is the strongest force in the universe. When people experience it, they double down.
Re: (Score:2)
Obviously not understood by the brexiters at the time of voting, learning the reality of its meaning now though.
Project fear you mean?
More like project reality in hindsight to everyone and foresight to remainers.
The ignorant voted to leave the EU (Score:5, Insightful)
If you study the EU, its structure, formation and development, you find that the whole campaign to leave was a pack of lies or at best misrepresentations of the truth:
Claim: "Wahhh whaaa we are being subject to laws from those horrible Jonny foreigner" truth "The UK was THE leading contributor/protagonist in the development of the EU laws"
Claim: the EU is undemocratic", truth: The EU structures were set up specifically to retain the primacy of the member states democracies
Claim: All those 'orrible types from Eastern Europe are coming here and getting benefits for free. Truth: Free movement is only available to those who can either support themselves or have a job - the problem was the UK didn't apply the rules to remove people falling outside those categories, also, government WANTS immigration (immigrants pay taxes after all)
Summary conclusion: main rationale for Brexit, presented by the idiots clamouring for it, was an illusion.
Re: (Score:2)
Claim: the EU is undemocratic", truth: The EU structures were set up specifically to retain the primacy of the member states democracies
That's a flat out lie.
Re: (Score:2)
You're right, EU laws have primacy. However, it's also democratic by the usual standard, it's a representative democracy. Frankly I don't think that's particularly democratic, but few agree with me. Today we have the tech to let literally everyone vote individually. Not doing that isn't democracy, IMO.
However, since almost everyone disagrees with me, most people would assert that the EU is democratic.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Really not sure why I even bother replying to a poster who didn't take even 1 second to think before posting a clearly ignorant answer.
Do me a favor and don't post again prior to engagding neurons.
Re: (Score:2)
A couple of other gems:
- Red London busses were painted with the slogan "350 million GBP per week to NHS with Brexit" (NHS = National Health Service), Just a single day after the referendum, the leader of the Brexit party was asked about it and he said it was not something that he himself say and it was a mistake!
- The cries about foreigners "taking our jobs" or "our benefits" were also ludicrous for an additional reason: the majority of immigrants in the UK were not from Europe, but from Commonwealth count
Re: (Score:3)
Did you vote Boris Johnson as PM? What about the House of Lords? And let's not forget the queen.
There are no border checks within the EU
There are no border checks in Schengen Area of which UK decided to stay outside.
Re: (Score:2)
Claim: All those 'orrible types from Eastern Europe are coming here and getting benefits for free. Truth: There are no border checks within the EU so this is true.
Why would you need border checks to know whether you're giving benefits to a British national or not? Even England isn't that incompetent. You're bad at trolling.
Re: (Score:2)
Did you vote for Dominic Cummings? Or any other civil servants?
Ursula von der Leyen was selected by the European Council, which is made up of the heads of state from all the members. She was confirmed by the European Parliament, which is made up of MEPs elected directly by the citizens of the EU.
Her job is to do what the European Council selected her to do, like any civil servant. Her power is greatly over-estimated, and the directly elected Parliament can reject any legislation she proposes. It's her job t
Re: (Score:2)
Truth: There are no border checks within the EU so this is true.
That is wrong, idiot
You do not even know the difference between the EU and the Schengen are.
You USSR comparison is just idiotic
If you do not know how the voting process in the EU and its "departments" work: then read it up, or, stay an idiot
Re: (Score:2)
The objectives of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization â" in particular its purely defensive tasks â" are, in view of the world wide political tension, in full harmony with the natural interest of the German nation which, after a dreadful experience gained in two World Wars, is longing as ardently as any other nation in the world for security and peace.
Konrad Adenauer, Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany speaking at the accession of West Germany to NATO Paris, 9 May 1955
They should not be wary of senior scientist exodus (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: They should not be wary of senior scientist ex (Score:2)
Nah plenty of jobs these days
It's better than that (Score:2)
Real creativity declines with age. If the UK loses 'senior' scientists who are the pillars of their organisations, they will stop holding up their institutions and blocking the view.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't think that's true. The obligation to sit on committees increases with age. I know lots of older scientists who never got the bump to faculty who are wildly creative. That's probably why they never got the bump to faculty....
And in other news... (Score:2)
Brexit is simply the freedom to self-rule (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The President and the members of the Senate are elected. (I think you probably already know this!)
Similarly with the EU. The President of the European Commission is proposed by the European Council, which is composed of the heads of state or government of all the member states (all subject to elections in their own countrie
So, let's figure out the benefits of Brexit... (Score:3)
... /me thinks ... hmm. Dum di dum, la la laa.
A few minutes passes...
Nope, I've got nothing.
What I find so exasperating, is that as an ideological move Brexit is akin to shooting yourself in the foot or lopping of your nose to spite your face.
The _only_ possible even slightly rational explanation I can find for this incredible act of self-harm, is a few people got extremely rich off the back of it - or rather, even richer.
The other explanations beggar belief and clearly exist within some alternative reality, where the British Empire is alive and well and the entire world is knocking on our door for trade.
So, here's the deal - or the lack thereof - we give up our seat at the head table of a trading block that collectively has one of the highest GDP's globally, in the hope that countries outside of the EU will flock to us with trade opportunities.
I believe it was hoped that the biggest of them all, the USA, would welcome us with open arms and setup favourable trading deals left, right and centre.
Clearly, US business is thinking "Oh, gee, looks like our favoured entry point into that huge EU market, the UK, now has excessive tariffs and regulations - sorry guys, love you and all our Atlantic cousins, but business is business..."
Seriously, why would any US business or any other large economy outside of the EU, want to deal with a market of 70 million when there's a market of 500 million and you don't need to jump through extra hoops by going via the UK.
And trade is just part of it - a very big part - but there's so many other factors.
Young people in the UK once had free access to study and work in all of the members of the EU - that's 27 countries.
We once had a healthy student exchange, a healthy back and forth of people seeking work, with ideas and different cultures and all that exciting stuff.
Now we find ourselves back in the days before 1972 - and the late 60's and early 70's in the UK were bleak and dire.
Brexit has erected huge barriers of red tape and bureaucracy for not only trade, but free movement of people - it's a disaster in the making.
And is it any wonder that senior scientists are wanting to leave? - it's a no-brainer, when all that red tape and bullshit bureaucracy gets in the way of science, there's only one thing for it - move somewhere where there's less of it.
The UK is in a slow death spiral.
There are only a few key things keeping our heads above water:
1. London is still a global financial capital - a very dodgy one, with some very dirty money, but a key player globally - for how long though?
2. The UK is still amongst global leaders in providing higher education and research - but how many of those educated here stay and provide services for the UK? - very few, they all come and study here and take those skills back home.
3. The UK is still a reasonably popular tourist destination, despite being ridiculously expensive - but tourism is a fraction of our GDP.
There's only one solution.
Re-negotiate and rejoin the EU single market. We will most likely get massive penalties for it, billions of pounds, because whilst the EU would welcome us back, it would come with a hefty price.
That's it - the only solution is to admit the folly, admit Brexit was a huge mistake.
It needs to happen in the next few years before the depth of damage cripples the UK economy for decades - it may already be too late.
And whilst we have the Tories with their stupid moronic "Brexiteer" brigade still calling the shots, there's no chance.
So, I watch as my country slowly returns to the dark days of the 1970's - sure, the rest of the world is heading down the same path, but this country has a double whammy to deal with.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Seriously, why would any US business or any other large economy outside of the EU, want to deal with a market of 70 million when there's a market of 500 million and you don't need to jump through extra hoops by going via the UK.
The EU is nothing more than a huge collection of "hoops" outside companies must jump thru to do trade inside the EU. The most recent example is Apple being forced to redesign the charger port on their iPhones or to treat Dating apps in the Netherlands different than any other apps anywhere else in the world.
The EU market has many hurdles to entry, and has a propensity to impose huge penalties on outside companies.
Re: (Score:2)
That is called "copium"...
Re: (Score:2)
Seriously, why would any US business or any other large economy outside of the EU, want to deal with a market of 70 million when there's a market of 500 million and you don't need to jump through extra hoops by going via the UK.
The EU is nothing more than a huge collection of "hoops" outside companies must jump thru to do trade inside the EU. The most recent example is Apple being forced to redesign the charger port on their iPhones or to treat Dating apps in the Netherlands different than any other apps anywhere else in the world.
The EU market has many hurdles to entry, and has a propensity to impose huge penalties on outside companies.
My point is simply about the size of the market and that the UK is better inside, than outside.
You TOTALLY missed my point about "jumping through hoops" - it had NOTHING to do with what you have stated.
Do some research - it's to do with the fact that a US company that once went via the UK into the EU now has blockers - extra tariffs etc. - it's not a direct connection.
The UK _was_ a preferred entry into the EU market for the US, because, you know, we're buddies, same language, similar culture, if you are de
There's a very dark spectator sport out there (Score:3)
It's watching which of Italy and Illinois will go bankrupt first from their massive unfunded pension liabilities. When the day comes that the taxpayers of Germany finally realise they've been subsidising Italy for too long, the effect will be nasty. Of course the present generation of leaders will have retired by then, having kicked the ball down the road during their time in office - and found themselves comfortable boltholes for their retirement.
Re: (Score:2)
There's only one solution.
Re-negotiate and rejoin the EU single market. We will most likely get massive penalties for it, billions of pounds, because whilst the EU would welcome us back, it would come with a hefty price.
That's it - the only solution is to admit the folly, admit Brexit was a huge mistake.
It needs to happen in the next few years before the depth of damage cripples the UK economy for decades - it may already be too late.
And whilst we have the Tories with their stupid moronic "Brexiteer" brigade still calling the shots, there's no chance.
So, I watch as my country slowly returns to the dark days of the 1970's - sure, the rest of the world is heading down the same path, but this country has a double whammy to deal with.
It needs to happen and it will happen. But the UK first needs to get rid of all the extremely self-absorbed rich morons that were voted into power and that will take time and it will need for things to get much worse. The last thing a stupid person (voter in this case) is willing to admit that they made a gross mistake. So when the UK rejoins the EU, it will be as a beggar and there will be no special conditions or rights for it, unlike what it had before.
What I am wondering is whether the Scots (that seem
How is this surprising? (Score:2, Insightful)
Academics - who live primarily by sucking funding from cash cows like the government to do what they do - are following the biggest cash cow.
Even an academic could have predicted that.
Interesting funding policy (Score:2)
In the US we fund countless research around the world (for example, virology studies in Wuhan, China),I find it interesting that other "more enlightened", "more sophisticated" nations like the EU members and UK place residency restrictions on funding scientific research.
It is interesting to note that the UK was willing to match the lost funding for researchers, but the researchers apparent want the flexibility to relocate their laboratories in other countries as they see fit:
Moritz Treeck, a group leader at the Francis Crick Institute in London who is due to receive $2.1m over five years from the ERC to study the malaria pathogen, is among those contemplating a move. He said a major downside of the UK offer was the lack of flexibility about moving the funding internationally.
Why believe any of this? (Score:2)
It's all just propaganda. How could anybody not see that by now?
Entirely as expected (Score:2)
After the majority of the UK voters decided that doing it to themselves with a wire-brush was a good idea, of course anybody sane that can is leaving. It is an expected, well-known effect.
The nature of the EU (Score:2)
Most commenters here don't seem to understand the nature of the EU. Its confusing because it has some elements which are considered liberal-left in the Anglosphere, and others which are considered right wing neo-conservative.
Its evolution is towards a United States of Europe. But its not now, and will not be if it ever gets there, a democratic entity on the Anglo Saxon model. Direct elections are to a powerless Parliament, a Parliament in name only, which cannot initiate legislation, which cannot even de
Re: Of course (Score:2)
Join the campaign against vacuous Subjects! (Score:2)
Or maybe you just like feeding trolls?
So let's see how deep the vacuum extends into this large discussion...
Not so bad this time. Turns out AC lost and it didn't propagate much. Only one visible after this reply.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Of course (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
France is a rich country that treats poorly its researchers in general. To the point a Ph.D can be detrimental to your career if you are an engineer. Also they have a complex system of prestigious schools which mean those who get a degree outside of such elite institutions are often paid less. Very true for engineers.
Belgium is also a weird case where researchers and academics are generally not treated very well. Except the medical ones. It is not for a lack of money, it is just a poor societal choice.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: It's the EU's money. (Score:2)
The major EU countries of France, Germany and Italy may be surprised to hear they have royalty.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The U.S. spends money on biological science in far away countries to understand their diseases before they get here. And until the former alleged president got his panties in a twist, it worked quite well.
The rest of your screed is hopeless to untangle, dunno why you thought it worth to write.
Re: (Score:2)
If there were a conspiracy around Covid the US would be in on it so your rambling makes no sense at all. It's not paranoid enough.