New White House Partnership Aims To Speed Construction of Offshore Wind Farms (theverge.com) 49
The White House and 11 governors from East Coast states forged a new partnership on Thursday to build up domestic supply chains for offshore wind farms and related infrastructure. From a report: The new Federal-State Offshore Wind Implementation Partnership includes governors from Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Rhode Island. As part of the announcement, the Biden administration committed to the facilitation of "timely and effective permitting and environmental reviews" for offshore wind projects and lease sales. In the past, permitting has been a significant bottleneck for advancing offshore wind projects. Crucially, President Joe Biden also moved to ease another major bottleneck: securing the specialized ships needed to erect turbines as tall as skyscrapers in the open ocean. Projects compete for time with the few installation vessels available worldwide, which number just over 30. The US faces additional restrictions because of the Jones Act, which stipulates that ships moving between two points in the US need to be built, owned, crewed, and registered in the US.
Offshore wind farms on the east coast. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Offshore wind farms on the east coast. (Score:5, Interesting)
Well! except where the rich have their mansions and beach houses.
"to build up domestic supply chains for offshore wind farms and related infrastructure"
(Translation) "We'll sign up for a 'Green' bill and pretend we care by labeling our bolts and nuts 'Green' and charge 3x more while sucking on the Federal teat-of-needs, and pretend you didn't hear that part about 'related infrastructure' as we build another gas-powered plant, and pay out handsome executive bonuses with taxpayer money."
Yes, I'm sure this will go about as well as that Broadband rollout we taxpayers have funded about 3 times over now.
Don't worry about their houses. They certainly aren't.
Re:Offshore wind farms on the east coast. (Score:5, Informative)
https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/All... [ny.gov]
Close Enough (tm)
I mean they're just not spoiling anyone's view, being way out there. A 1MW turbine is about 320 feet tall, so anything over ~24 miles off shore will be completely below the horizon. Most of these locations are 30 miles or more off shore.
=Smidge=
Pres. Obama is not putting up a wind mill (Score:1, Offtopic)
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It's not really feasible to put wind power in for an individual home. It's normal to have large propane tanks for houses on islands and in rural areas to use propane tanks. Insofar as it replaces electricity generated from bunker fuel it's a positive.
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Musk does the same: https://mobile.twitter.com/Elo... [twitter.com]
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As Reich says, you want cheaper government, take the welfare away from the Corporations.
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LOL. Right, that's a Democrat only trait. I haven't seen a politician on the national stage in my lifetime that doesn't work more for their donors than for their constituents. Democrats, Republicans, Independents, it doesn't matter. The campaigns require such massive amounts of money that even the most well-intentioned rube to jump into the game ends up selling their soul by the time they get elected. It's a beautiful system if you want to ensure that only psychotic, deranged, mentally damaged assholes are
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Everything needs fossil fuel to build. What matters is that once it's built it produces clean energy and helps reduce emissions elsewhere.
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The point is we need fossil fuel to be cheap and plentiful to pull this off at massive scale, strangling it like Biden administration has done without plan in place was stupidity. And this is only for 30 GW of non baseline power by 2030, off by order of magnitude to make serious dent and not the base load we need
Serious plan is needed, not this penny-ante crap.
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base load, baseline energy also used, stop being a pedant.
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> The point is we need fossil fuel to be cheap and plentiful to pull this off at massive scale
We really don't, though? I mean yes it will take an energy investment to transition to an alternative, but the idea that "we need fossil fuel to be cheap and plentiful" is self-defeating because the more expensive and scarce it becomes, the more pressure there is to transition away from it.
Like literally the opposite of what you said...
> strangling it like Biden administration has done
[citation needed]
=Smidge
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We really do, building out green infrastructure including storage and transmission will require massive use of fossil energy under a plan that bootstraps and transitions.
There is no alternative.
And by the way each and every wind turbine, solar panel, storage battery you see was built with 80 percent fossil energy use. It takes more than 3 years for an EV to work off its carbon load debt. You want to change that it will cost fossil fuel use, that's reality.
Don't be a greentard like the Biden administratio
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> Green has to be bootstrapped, and right now we're choking the energy feed to that process
I already acknowledged that it requires an energy investment.
The part you're not getting is that the cheaper fossil fuels are, the LESS renewables are built, and the MORE public money is required to make it happen. Cheap fossil fuels means no investment in renewable energy, because there's no economic benefit.
I'll say that again in all caps so you don't miss it this time:
CHEAP AND ABUNDANT FOSSIL ENERGY IS A BARRIE
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The term baseline power does not exist.
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oh look a wee little pedant.
Base load, baseload, base energy, baseline energy, all the same idea. Wind and solar without storage can't give it and we need it.
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Yeah,
you damn idiot are you to stupid to read up what "base load" actually means?
Every damn plant can give base load - dumbass
Hint: neither does the term "baseline" exist, nor does "base load" mean what you think it means.
But as you would not grasp it if you read wikipedia, I give you a small mental challange:
Take a sheet of paper. Start left (that would be Midnight) draw a random curve from left to right (right would be midnight next day).
Find the lowest point in your curve. Draw a horizontal line at that
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Here's a paper that quantifies the approximate CO2 payoff period for wind turbines across a range of rated output powers (pdf sorry):
https://www.longdom.org/open-a... [longdom.org]
TL;DR: It's quite favorable.
(H/T to https://twitter.com/McClellanO... [twitter.com])
They need more than that (Score:5, Insightful)
Cape Wind was a project to put up a 454 MW offshore wind project in Cape Cod. The area had some of the most consistent, strong wind. You know what also is good in that area? Rich people sailing. This project was stalled by everyone from Ted Kennedy to the Koch Family fought to keep their wealthy estates free of clean power that polluted their views and sailing. Even when Obama stepped in and forced the issue, making sure the project would go forward, the wealthy folks there sued the permitting of the projects repeatedly, delaying construction. The project ultimately failed to hit their construction milestones and the customers pulled out of the power purchase agreements, killing the projects.
It's interesting how NIMBYism is a bipartisan issue, particularly when you're a wealthy politician or donor.
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The development rights auctions for development of wind power off the cost of NYC and Long Island earlier this year were the most expensive land leases in US history.
There's 4,300 MW of wind being developed and installed right now off the cost of New York, (half of which is expected to be online by 2025) with a target of 9,000 MW by 2035.
Cape Cod's 454MW is peanuts. Let the NIMBYs NIMBY, they can afford to buy the stupid expensive nuclear power from Millstone.
=Smidge=
Re:They need more than that (Score:4, Informative)
There's a potential 4,300 MW in all of Long Island's pipeline of projects. They just "broke ground" on South Fork wind, which is only 130MW, 1/3rd of Cape Wind's project (you can't compare Long Island's potential wind to a single project in Cape Cod). The rest are still in permitting. South Fork Wind was originally Deepwater Wind which started permitting in 2013, and was only finally approved due to the usual lawsuits and permitting issues in 2021, and was renamed because the original company couldn't hold it together and it was bought by a Danish firm and renamed. Orsted has the financial backing to keep a project going because permitting in Europe is way more permissive, and htey don't have Kennedy's and Koch's stalling things.
fingers crossed that Sunrise Wind gets going. That'll put Long Island on the map at 900+MW of offshore wind. That's slated to go next year.
Do Both... (Score:1)
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I did not vote for any of these corrupt asswipes. I voted for Trump.
You voted for a corrupt party out of force. Just like every other voter did.
Part of the sales tactics of politics, is convincing every citizen that Us vs. Them is actually necessary and beneficial, when clearly it does nothing than serve as a Mass Distraction device while those in power (and their donors of course) rob you blind.
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Couldn't agree more about the entrenched families in DC, but Drain the Swamp needed a better tactic.
Given what our "leaders" did (or didn't) do to get into their positions of abuse today, I'm willing to bet someone could run on the single promise of establishing term limits and win.
It's not corruption that maintains the swamp. It's established and entrenched corruption, and we need to remove the adult children from office. If you're old enough to wear diapers and can't pass a drug/sobriety test is a suff
Off shore wind costs too much. (Score:2, Informative)
How about we compare offshore wind to other options on costs?
https://www.iea.org/reports/pr... [iea.org] (You only need to look at the chart to get the idea, not read the entire article.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] (Link is to global studies but poke around for national studies if you like.)
It bothers some people if I mention Lazard, and bothers others if I don't. This triggers people either way, I just include it for completeness. If you believe it is crap then ignore it. If you grab on to something out of
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Keep posting replies. It helps my Slashdot "karma" and bumps up my comments where more people can see them.
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The interesting thing to note in that wikipedia article and specifically the chart you referenced, is that
over the period, 2010 to 2019 it shows the installed capacity for all power sources has increased, but both onshore wind and solar have each individually increase to now exceed total nuclear capacity, while greatly decreasing in price per MW greatly, while nuclear has also grown but increased greatly in price per MWh.
it's hardly a ringing endorsement for nuclear power.
Why offshore? (Score:2)
> 1/4 of the land area of US can provide 60% capacity factor with sufficient hub height. Why invest money on wind deployments that cost 3x more?
Cost / benefit of offshort wind? (Score:2)
I have never seen a full-scale analysis of offshore wind. Yes, there is a lot of wind, but: the installation is a massive project. Pouring the footings, building the towers, laying the cables. How much energy will one of these generators produce in its lifetime? How much energy does the installation require?
I'm actually pretty skeptical...
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The bigger the cheaper they are to run. It makes money; you go look. The foundation can be used longer than the blades which need replacing. The next gen can be floating and anchored which allows for cheaper placement in deep water - it's basically the same tech oil rigs used.
How about you apply that skepticism to nuclear power because as far as I've read they never made any money without heavy subsidies including ridiculous massive subsidies for waste and insurance. It's just further proof you don't actu
Those who are S.O.L. (Score:2)
If you run a business that needs the same parts as those wind farms, you are going to be SOL trying to find them. That might include car makers or Abrams tank builders.