Intel Delays Groundbreaking Ceremony for Ohio Plant Amid Uncertainty Over Chips Legislation (wsj.com) 63
Intel has told lawmakers and officials that it is delaying indefinitely the groundbreaking ceremony for a planned multibillion-dollar chip-manufacturing facility in Ohio, signaling frustration over uncertainty in Congress about legislation that would provide support for the U.S. chip industry. From a report: The ceremony had been tentatively scheduled for July 22. Intel informed the office of Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine and members of Ohio's congressional delegation on Wednesday that it was delaying the groundbreaking "due in part to uncertainty around" the chips-related legislation, known as the Bipartisan Innovation Act, according to an email reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.
Intel still plans to build the facility and hasn't pushed back the start of construction, said Intel spokesman Will Moss. Intel, which announced the plant plans in January, said it intended to invest at least $20 billion in the Ohio facility, with construction expected to begin in late 2022 and production to start in 2025. The company said in its announcement that spending on the Ohio project could reach around $100 billion over the next decade, but that the expansion depends in part on progress on the U.S. chips legislation.
Intel still plans to build the facility and hasn't pushed back the start of construction, said Intel spokesman Will Moss. Intel, which announced the plant plans in January, said it intended to invest at least $20 billion in the Ohio facility, with construction expected to begin in late 2022 and production to start in 2025. The company said in its announcement that spending on the Ohio project could reach around $100 billion over the next decade, but that the expansion depends in part on progress on the U.S. chips legislation.
Leeches gonna leech (Score:5, Insightful)
Intel had $8 billion in free cash flow in the previous quarter [intc.com]. Intel also said they will be spending 80 billion euros over the next decade for their semicondutor operations throughout the European Union (that's 10 billion euros per year for those keeping track).
And yet, somehow, Intel can't find the money to create a fab in the U.S. because it will go broke unless the U.S. taxpayer coughs up billions of their dollars. If Intel is that bad off, let them fail. Enough with corporate socialism. Intel needs to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and stop being a welfare queen.
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so let RED chain pay them to put spy tech in the c (Score:2)
so let RED chain pay them to put spy tech in the chips in there cheap labor plant in chain as that is the way to build chips with the most profit.
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And by treated better you mean more welfare payments. Multi-billion dollar companies can't exist without begging for handouts. Got it.
Re:Leeches gonna leech (Score:5, Insightful)
Either accept this as a reality or cede everything to other countries. You want a domestic chip industry of any relevance, then Congress will need to open its wallet.
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Either accept this as a reality or cede everything to other countries. You want a domestic chip industry of any relevance, then Congress will need to open its wallet.
We don't have to keep pouring carrots into the trough. We can use the goddamned stick instead. It's past time, especially for an illegal monopolist like Intel. They leverage their position in CPUs to wedge their way into other markets. They're doing it right now to push Arc on OEMs. It's criminal behavior according to US law, but who bothers to enforce laws anymore?
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And by treated better you mean more welfare payments. Multi-billion dollar companies can't exist without begging for handouts. Got it.
Arguably one of the US's biggest weaknesses is the combination of the belief that all private / public partnerships is a form of handout along with the belief that private investors deserve the lion's share of the economic benefit in the economy. It is the worst of both worlds, yet it is how the US operates for the most part.
Private industry in the US would not be a fraction of what it is today without significant government spending in education and research in the post WW2 years, all of which have seen ex
Re:Leeches gonna leech (Score:5, Informative)
Intel is also getting subsidies from the EU.
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Eh well
The fact is that Intel does not have the most compelling cutting-edge nodes anymore. Any government courting them is a waste. Maybe the United States can justify the practice to itself out of some sense of jingoism, but the EU may as well throw its money at GlobalFoundries. It'd be about as fruitful.
Anyone looking for real cutting-edge silicon manufacturing had best court the likes of TSMC or Samsung.
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And notably Intel didn't say they won't build it, they said they're delaying it because they don't know what the government is going to do.
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Which is a distinction without a difference. They're still waiting to see if they can leech off the taxpayers.
In cases like this, if the taxpayers put up a single pfenig of money, they should get an interest in the company. Let's say a 5% stake. It's our money, we should be rewarded for being forced to hand it over to a private company who goes out of its way
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Solution (Score:3)
Then the solution would be to throw a tariff of 70% on any products built with chips from South Korea, or an equivalent tariff on things using subsidized chips from Japan. Any equivalent product from the US shipping to Japan or South Korea then gets subsidized with the tariffs.
If other countries want to subsidize their industries, that's fine, but the US should make up the cost in tariffs to keep the playing field level. But we do it the stupid way. We currently subsidize US cotton growers, *and* Brazilian
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So no, tariffs are no solution at all.
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Well that's a profoundly stupid solution. Products built with chips from South Korea and Japan would still be sold throughout the rest of the world without tariffs, the tariffs would be paid by U.S. manufacturers and consumers making
Tariffs Don't Work Like That (Score:3, Informative)
"... the US should make up the cost in tariffs to keep the playing field level ...
The confusion over how tariffs work is understandable, especially since Trump put such extensive efforts into generating more confusion.
A US tariff on a commodity from 'Country A' is not paid by 'Country A', it's paid by US consumers. The idea is that it raises the US consumer cost enough that it's no longer the cheap to buy from 'Country A' so the US consumer will buy from a US supplier instead. For example if Korea sells a
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If other countries want to subsidize their industries, that's fine, but the US should make up the cost in tariffs to keep the playing field level.
It is not that easy to determine what is considered a subsidy.
Is social security provided by the government as opposed to company pensions a subsidy?
Is universal healthcare a subsidy?
Is a public education system which produces educated employees for companies a subsidy?
Is a functioning judicial system protecting intellectual property a subsidy?
It isn't as simple as just saying direct investment into a specific company is considered a subsidy, but everything else governments do to support private companies a
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And notably Intel didn't say they won't build it, they said they're delaying it because they don't know what the government is going to do.
According to the summary they aren't even delaying the construction of the facility they are just delaying the ceremonial groundbreaking that these types of projects tend to have. The summary states that Intel still plans to build the facility and they aren't planning to delay that construction.
Intel still plans to build the facility and hasn't pushed back the start of construction, said Intel spokesman Will Moss. Intel, which announced the plant plans in January, said it intended to invest at least $20 billion in the Ohio facility, with construction expected to begin in late 2022 and production to start in 2025.
Negotiation (Score:2)
We've seen this from pro sports franchises and other industrial companies before: deliver tax benefits for us, or we take our facilities and jobs elsewhere. And, to apply pressure on you, we'll dangle the thing you want in front of you, and yank it away unless you deliver.
It's corruption right out in the open.
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Intel sure is getting a lot of government funding (Score:5, Interesting)
The EU and the United States are pumping an ungodly amount of money into Intel fabs while Intel continues buying more wafers from TSMC. Hmm.
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China's already moving in that direction, Russia will be sooner or later given the current trade restrictions. Both are doing it for their own national security purposes. Once both of them start their own fabs, the other countries of the world that have a bone to pick with Western countries will gladly buy from China or Russia instead. Think the OPEC nations for example. O
A Brief Look Back (Score:1)
Which is why they should both start implementing legislation to ban all imports of foreign made chips. ...
Up until the late 80's early 90's it was standard DoD policy to require only US made chips and computers for weapon systems. This made perfect sense from a security standpoint and from a technology standpoint this worked well and the US Military represented State-Of-The-Art technical superiority, expensive as hell but the best there was.
A funny thing happened; when the fundamental technology of chip ma
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The world has changed, you can't go back because it was never viable in the first place.
Funny you say that, because the world has changed yet again.
As I said in the previous post, many countries, especially our enemies but some of our allies as well, are tired of the US's stranglehold on the Global economy, and the US's willingness to use that stranglehold to it's advantage during times of conflict. There is also concerns of self-reliance in times of crisis that the current Global economy has proven itself to be unable to handle effectively.
The only reason the Globalization you described
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How will AMD be a loser? AMD isn't even in Si manufacturing anymore. None of that really makes sense, especially with TSMC and Samsung increasing their foreign footprints.
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TSMC: Taiwan, In case you haven't noticed recently, Taiwan isn't in the best position to be free from Chinese influence. [cnn.com]
Samsung: South Korea, again, not in the best situation either. [bbc.com]
Just because they have foreign footprints doesn't mean they will observe the national security requirements of those foreign nations. All it would take is a $5.00 wrench and some gover
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You have it backwards. AMD buys wafers from manufacturers. They only have ever done business with two of them: Globalfoundries and TSMC (okay they might have some minor projects with Samsung but nothing major). GF is out of the cutting-edge node business so they're out of the picture. Realistically, AMD can only license from one foundry: TSMC. Samsung isn't quite keeping up.
TSMC is struggling mightily to remain an international corporation, and as I mentioned, they are increasing their footprint in for
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It wasn't Biden's idea. The chip companies have been lobbying Congress. Jesus, you are a broken record.
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the people with the strongest opinions about government have no fucking clue how it works
this is your brain on alternative media
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"I know how the government works"
falls back on the same hackneyed Markov chain responses. will also continue to vote for people who cause the thing they're mad about
you are not a serious person
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I voted for Trump
did not fix it
"but ill vote for him again because he gives me a little jostle in my nethers when talks about libs"
not a serious person
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Thank god the Republicans never give government money to corporations. All we need to do is vote in an all Republican congress and all our problems would be solved over night.
P.S. Just in case it wasn't clear the above is a sarcastic reply to an obviously flawed argument.
How about the important info? (Score:5, Informative)
So that is great and all, but how about including the important information in the summary instead of just the first paragraphs and then linking to a paywalled article most people can't read? So what exactly are they worried about? Are they worried the legislation will or won't pass? What is in the legislation? What is the concern about the legislation? This isn't so much a summary, but 2 paragraphs that tell us nothing about the actual issue.
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Sounds like they're not changing or delaying their plans but the Administration doesn't want to lose their photo op if/when a bill passes. So this is all political posturing.
Re:How about the important info? (Score:4, Insightful)
What they're worried about exactly is that the US won't continue to hand them money to do what they should have been doing for years anyway, and which they can already afford with their own money.
Intel has fallen into the next-to-last phase of existence, where their primary purpose is to consume pork.
The last phase is patent troll.
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I give up, what money has the U.S. government handed Intel? This bill hasn't yet passed.
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you know what, maybe I am off base, i am having serious considerations this is actually an AI chatbot.
Re: How about the important info? (Score:5, Informative)
Funny thing, the facts show otherwise [themilsource.com]. But you knew that and are simply spouting the normal fascist tripe.
It should be noted, the last three Democratic presidents all inherited a recession from their Republican predecessors.
You will need to go back to rioting with your Antifa buddies
As opposed to rioting with white supremacists and fascists trying to overthrow the government?
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Patent troll, lol. You don't seem to know what that means. Hint: The worldwide leader and innovator (yes, I know they're behind now but that's a fairly recent event) who has been the dominant factor in developing and driving transistor technology since its inception can't, by definition, be a "patent troll' with the things they literally drove into existence.
So even if your risible fever dream came to be and they sold everything and lived off patents, they wouldn't be a "patent troll" because they are legit
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Patent troll, lol. You don't seem to know what that means.
You definitely don't know what a quality comment looks like. Keep trying though, I guess.
Hint: The worldwide leader and innovator (yes, I know they're behind now but that's a fairly recent event)
So you mean you know they're not the worldwide leader or innovator, but called them that anyway? Open your mouth wider.
who has been the dominant factor in developing and driving transistor technology since its inception can't, by definition, be a "patent troll' with the things they literally drove into existence.
A patent troll is someone who exists only to sue, nothing more and nothing less. And by continuing to fail to even catch up, that's the way they're headed. They can't succeed on their own merits any more. But then, that's been true for decades. Intel's market position depends on anticompetitive behavior
Too big to pre-fail? (Score:3)
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Is your small business literally a lynchpin of the global and domestic economy?
(Bashfully) Yes. But seriously, if Intel couldn't remain profitable, a competitor would surely step up to fill the void--no wasteful, potentially corrupt government games required.
If so, you probably have a pretty good shot, but I doubt selling shoddy, misaligned 3D printed buttplugs will meet this criteria.
Nice. Ours are not misaligned though.
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Not just wafers (Score:2)