FTC Settles With Weber Grills Over 'Right To Repair'

Weber-Stephen Products, the maker of Weber grills, has agreed to scrap some warranty rules as part of a settlement with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC) over consumers' right to repair products that they purchase, the agency said on Thursday. From a report: Under the settlement, Weber will no longer require consumers to use Weber parts as a condition of remaining under warranty and will add language to its warranty to that effect, the FTC said in a statement. The FTC has pressed companies to drop rules that void warranties or otherwise punish customers who use independent repair shops or third-party parts to repair a wide range of products. The agency made a similar deal with Harley-Davidson in June. read more It also settled with a company that made Westinghouse outdoor generators.

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[spire3661]

Oh look, another ignorant fool who doesn't understand that without oversight these companies would destroy us chasing a dollar.

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[rahmrh]

Voting with your $$ does not work, since this is a simple thing for all of the manufacturers to do exactly what Weber did and it makes them more money since the eliminate/take over all of the 3rd party suppliers. So the companies have every reason to behave badly if the law does not prevent them.

The end game is your automobile warranty is void, as we know you did not always buy genuine gasoline.

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[DrLudicrous]

The only thing ignorant here is the general tenor of your comment. It presumes that companies will respond if you leave them. Unspoken is that this requires Nâ1, which is rarely the case. See: cell phones. With limited options, companies have little incentive to compete by not imposing such a lucrative revenue stream.

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[guruevi]

Plenty of choices in cell phone markets, from the working ones (iPhones) to the cheap ones (Android) to the repairable ones (which nobody buys and run some variant of Linux desktop).

You claim there is a problem where there is none because you don't like certain choice. Weber is far from the only grill company, it's literally some sheet metal welded together, there is nothing complicated to build your own or make a new brand, margins are going to be razor thin as a result. People buy Weber, not for its repai

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[jythie]

Well, that is the funny thing about laws. They do not just apply to 'critical' companies and products.

Re:so stupid

[thegarbz]

If you do not like the terms, simply do not buy it.

From who? Companies aren't there to please you and will collectively fuck you over. Hell if it weren't for government's competition laws they'd actively work together as a cartel just to fuck you over even more.

 

Wow...all without some useless government parasite involved

I really wish people who call the government parasites have all their government services removed. Maybe when you no longer have internet (funded and built by governments), or power (funded and built by governments) the world will be a better place for not having to listen to your bullshit.

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[SirSpanksALot]

Doesn't matter - you're not allowed to void warranties for using 3rd party parts. This was settled law in 1975... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

What DRM does this BBQ have?

[tiananmen tank man]

N/t

like cars they can't void warranty for jiffy lube

[Joe_Dragon]

like cars they can't void warranty for useing jiffy lube and not the dealer.

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[jythie]

I think the key here is 'warranty', meaning Webber is initially agreeing to repair or replace parts at their cost if something goes wrong, but then refusing to do so if the owner has swapped out other parts. So put on a cheap after market handle and now they will not replace the expensive control systems if they break.

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[freeze128]

The handle better not be an integral component of the expensive control systems.

Westinghouse outdoor generators?

[Anonymous Coward]

The same company that makes them also makes a set of Onan portable inverter generators, and also Pulsar generators. Overall, they are not bad... for badge-engineered stuff from China. If one wants stuff from China with no real name, might as well buy at Harbor Freight, buy the extended warranty, and get a new generator every few years when the old one dies (provided you re-buy the extended warranty each time, because once it is used, it is gone.)

If you want something that will be more easily repairable, g

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[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

The same company that makes them also makes a set of Onan portable inverter generators, and also Pulsar generators.

Pulsing Onanist would make a good name for a sarcastic character in an MMORPG.

Already not allowed under Magnuson–Moss

[Jaime2]

The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act of 1975 says specifically "Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty."

So, apparently the FTC entered into negotiations with Weber and "settled" on having Weber comply with an act of congress that has been on the books for almost fifty years. This was reported in the context of right-to-repair, so I'm curious if Weber made a deal to actually honor the existing law if the FTC would back off on its right to repair demands. Seems like a pretty weak deal if that's even remotely close.

Re:Already not allowed under Magnuson–Moss

[msauve]

>The Magnusonâ"Moss Warranty Act of 1975 says specifically "Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty."

It doesn't say that, anywhere. And that paraphrase is selective and misleading. What the act actually says is:

No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name;

So, under the act, they certainly _can_ require their branded replacement parts and/or services be used, as long as those parts and/or services are provided free under the warranty.

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[msauve]

Guessing the "right to repair" came in something like this: Someone's grill breaks on a holiday weekend. Even though the failure is covered under warranty, the owner wants to use their grill and kludges an immediate repair themselves. Weber then denies any further warranty service because the warranty terms weren't followed.

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[tlhIngan]

Guessing the "right to repair" came in something like this: Someone's grill breaks on a holiday weekend. Even though the failure is covered under warranty, the owner wants to use their grill and kludges an immediate repair themselves. Weber then denies any further warranty service because the warranty terms weren't followed.

Perhaps. But the thing is, you're not allowed to invalidate the entire warranty over that repair. You can show a repair will not be covered under part of the warranty.

A car is an easy ex

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[msauve]

>Can the manufacturer deny warranty coverage on the car because you changed the radio?

Yes, if that's what the warranty terms clearly define. Feel free to cite appropriate law/regulation if you disagree.

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[Jaime2]

Are they provided free? Of course not. The act was specifically worded that way to get warranty writers to stop requiring specific products and providing a very easy remedy for anyone that does... they give their product away for free.

At the time, auto manufacturers were already set up to make the claim "we're not requiring our parts". They did this by creating companies to sell parts - GM had AC Delco, Chrysler had Mopar, etc. The exact wording in the act was intended to close this loophole.

The paraphrasin

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[msauve]

You fail at reading comprehension.

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[larryjoe]

>The Magnusonâ"Moss Warranty Act of 1975 says specifically "Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty."

It doesn't say that, anywhere. And that paraphrase is selective and misleading. What the act actually says is:

No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name;

So, under the act, they certainly _can_ require their branded replacement parts and/or services be used, as long as those parts and/or services are provided free under the warranty.

Does there exist a loophole where it would be legal for the vendor to require using branded parts that are provided free of charge and then proceed to make the the procurement of those parts onerous?

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[Jaime2]

It's not the manufacturer's responsibility. However, federal law requires that the manufacturer show that the Frankensteining caused the damage. Otherwise manufacturers would say things like "Our grills were never tested with veggie burgers" and use call that a misuse of the product and deny warranty service.

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[msauve]

>federal law requires that the manufacturer show that the Frankensteining caused the damage.

Stop making things up. The law says no such thing. If an auto manufacturer wants to say your engine warranty is void if you hang fuzzy dice from the mirror, they can. They just have to express it in clear terms.

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[ageoffri]

You need to go read the Magnusonâ"Moss Warranty Act for the US. It does put the requirements of proof of burden to the auto manufacturer.

I've known people who have had to fight the dealer since ignorance is common around this law. Nearly everyone I've known to push it, has won.

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[msauve]

Citation needed.

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[thegarbz]

Stop making things up. The law says no such thing.

"(c) Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by Commission
No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if—
(1) the warrantor

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[tomhath]

Even worse, someone makes a half-assed repair and the grill explodes and burns the owner's three year old daughter - is Weber liable? Probably, even if the jury says Weber is 5% responsible and the homeowner is 95% responsible, Weber pays.

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[thegarbz]

If you make a product and someone Frankensteins it with other parts how the heck is that your responsibility? It's a BS argument that "the part that broke was unrelated" .. it still means you have to waste time ruling that out.

That's not the issue here. The likes of Weber (and other companies) use any modification however irrelevant to the underlying problem as some excuse to not honour a warranty claim, even when said fault is clearly the manufacturer's fault.

The argument is not BS at all. It's a legal fucking requirement that the manufacturer prove that the modification caused the issue.

Was it worth it to Weber?

[tbuskey]

I bought a gas Weber in 2007. I recommend them to everyone.
I've replaced the gas tubes 4 times, the grills twice and the flavorizor bars above the tubes 3 times.
I once used genuine Weber parts, but Weber flavorizer (just a long piece of steel folded into a tent) bars are too thin. An aftermarket brand lasted twice as long because they used thicker steel.

I'm well past any warranty so there is no advantage for me to use genuine parts.
I'm glad there is a market for non Weber made parts so I can choose the quality of a folded piece of stainless.

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[sconeu]

In the market for new flavorizers... mine are burnt through. What brand did you get?

Paint in the ass

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Not-Weber, but my daddy once won a prize from a business meeting he attended. It was one of those cheap grills like a large pan on a tripod, of the kind you find at the drug store or supermarket.

This one was the deluxe version, though! It had a tin half-cylinder about a foot and a half long, to bolt on as a windbreak, with a half-roof on it, all a pretty green.

We were going to grill, so I took it in the back yard and put it together. I filled it with coal, squirted on some lighter fluid, and lit it.

It st

Weber can go fuck themselves

[thegarbz]

Having moved to another country with a Weber Baby Q in toe only to be greeted with a slightly different gas fitting for a gas regulator that doesn't fit on bottles in the new country you would think that it would be a simple case of calling Weber and ordering the spare part. Nope. Told by Weber I'd need to buy a new grill.

Sorry but no, $10, a knife, and a hose clamp later I have an appropriate aftermarket gas regulator, a Weber grill that works 100% identically including getting to the same temperatures at the same settings as previously, and I'm the proud owner of an expanded shitlist of companies to boycott from hereon forward.

And before anyone says anything about different fuel mixtures, no, I checked it. Same fuel, same regulator pressure and flow rate, just different fittings. Fuck Weber.

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[drinkypoo]

Fuck Weber or whatever, I give zero fucks about them. But there are liability issues involved, listings requirements for insurance no doubt, and if the fitting is NPT in the US and metric in the RoW then no doubt they don't want to be involved with the swap.

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[thegarbz]

But there are liability issues involved

No there isn't. I'm talking about the Weber BabyQ model sold in one country vs another. They are 100% engineered for local regulations and I'm talking about getting the appropriate part for compatibility with the appropriate country.

Hell in most cases it's perfectly fine to even change the gas mixture. Know someone who moved to Germany who did the same trick I did, only his regulator ran at a different flow, different pressure (though only marginally) and switched from pure propane to a propane butane mix.

Never bought Weber Overpriced

[bsdetector101]

Never bought Weber cause I thought they were extremely overpriced. Whatever meat I grill probably tastes as great as something done on a Weber !