Spain Puts Limits on Air Conditioning and Heating To Save Energy (theguardian.com) 165
Spain has announced new energy-saving measures, including limits on air conditioning and heating temperatures in public and large commercial buildings, as it becomes the latest European country to seek to reduce its energy consumption and its dependence on Russian oil and gas. From a report: Under a decree that comes into effect in seven days' time and applies to public buildings, shopping centres, cinemas, theatres, rail stations and airports, heating should not be set above 19C (66.2F) and air conditioning should not be set below 27C (80.6F). Doors will need to be closed so as not to waste energy, and lights in shop windows must be switched off after 10pm. The premises in question will be required to display signs or screens that explain the energy-saving initiatives. Although Spain is not as dependent on Russian energy supplies as many other EU countries, it has agreed to a 7-8% reduction in gas use. The measures, which were published in Tuesday's edition of the official state gazette, will remain in force until November 2023. "[This] lays out a series of measures to save energy and use it more efficiently, which are urgent and necessary when it comes to reducing energy consumption in general, and reducing our dependence on energy outside the Spanish economy," the decree said.
More countries should do this (Score:5, Insightful)
There are a few countries where it's common practice to freeze your tits off in the middle of summer because you didn't bring a jumper to the heavily airconditioned public building.
Offices too. I hate how cold our office is in summer. This ain't the 30s. I'm not wearing a vest at my desk.
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Others and I remember working in cold labs because of all the computers, etc. We had to wear jackets!
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If there is a technical reason for it then that is quite different. I'm not proposing butchers turn up the AC in their freezer either. :-)
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Offices too. I hate how cold our office is in summer.
Chance would be a fine thing. The office where I used to work (before WFH) is like an oven in summer and a freezer in winter. It is a typical 60's factory/office, with a big uninsulated roof, and big windows round the offices. We did get some AC for the office/lab area, but I would not say the result was comfortable, summer or winter.
Perhaps there is a problem that in a climate which is naturally uncomfortably hot, keeping the office air cool is a demonstration of superior social status.
France already started (Score:5, Informative)
Reminds me of Las Vegas where a few of the casinos had air curtains instead of doors. Walking on the sidewalk and you could feel the cold air gushing out. But don't blame casinos when there are brown outs. They're doing their part to conserve energy in a desert.
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I've done a few HVAC projects in hangars and locomotive maintenance shops, and they would often have their doors wide open in the middle of winter when it was well below freezing.
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I've walked down fifth avenue in New York during a hot summer and all the stores have their doors open. It advertises how nice and cool their AC is and makes you want to go inside.
Are spanish houses well insulated? (Score:2)
I had cousins that lived not too far from MorÃn and their house was awful for insulation. In the summer they needed AC all the time and in the winter had to rely on heat to keep the house comfortable. As I recall none of the windows were really well insulated (no double panes or anything), and the exterior door was uninsulated metal. The house did not seem to be well insulated at all. And this was in a fairly recently-constructed neighborhood, about 10 years ago.
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Is there something keeping you from blowing more insulation in? Access issues or something?
Where I live, renting a machine for doing the job costs $150/day and bales of cellulose cost $15 each for 48sqft coverage (I'd halve that for better r-vlaue though).
Ground-source heat pump FTW (Score:5, Interesting)
I live in the Seattle area, and I had a ground-source heat pump (GSHP) installed. It is extremely efficient.
In the ground behind our house there is about 800 feet (244 metres) of pipes buried below the frost line. The pipes are filled with a mixture of water and anti-freeze. The heat pump can transfer heat from the house to the yard or vice-versa to respectively cool or heat the house.
The web site for our GSHP says it should be 400% efficient as installed. What this means is that if our GSHP spends 100 Watts of electricity, it can move 400 Watts of heat around. (Obviously no closed system could ever be more than 100% efficient, and really couldn't quite be 100% efficient; but a GHSP is not a closed system, it's a system that steals heat from one spot to move it to another.)
The month of July was unusually hot for this area. In fact the temperatures were high enough that the weather service issued scary warning bulletins. We had about a week of temperatures in the 90 - 96 degrees F range (32 - 36 degrees C). (People in Arizona and Texas would laugh at bulletins for this level of heat, but it's way beyond what's usual for this area.)
Our GSHP reported that for the whole month, cooling our home to 74 degrees F (23 degrees C), it used 108 kWh of electricity. At our current electrical rates that's $12 worth of electricity. That's for the whole house; it's 2150 square feet (about 200 square metres).
Unfortunately it's not possible for someone in Spain to snap their fingers and magically get a GSHP. And, the expense of burying the pipes in the ground is significantly higher than the expense of an air-source heat pump or other solution. But our GSHP works so well that I have to hope that this technology will see wider use in the future.
And, if places like Spain installed more solar power, then on the hottest days they would have extra electricity to help their energy grid out.
https://www.epa.gov/rhc/geothermal-heating-and-cooling-technologies [epa.gov]
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This sounds like a solution which is more suited to rural than urban housing, and more than 80% of Spain's population live in cities. As an indication of how difficult it can be to bury pipes in the ground, there are well-off but older neighbourhoods in my city which still have septic tanks.
With respect to solar power: while you're not wrong, to put it in context Spain is in the top 10 countries for both percentage of electricity produced by solar power and total energy produced by solar power. And it gets
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This sounds like a solution which is more suited to rural than urban housing
It's certainly easier to retrofit in rural housing. My point is that maybe going forward when new buildings are being built, they could plan this in. Much easier to do then.
As an indication of how difficult it can be to bury pipes in the ground, there are well-off but older neighbourhoods in my city which still have septic tanks.
Interesting. Thanks for telling about it.
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While GSHP is a great technology it is also by far the most expensive to implement and most difficult to retrofit. It is also impossible to retrofit in inner cities making it a poor choice for much of Europe thanks to high urbanisation rates and the style of buildings. The focus here is on ASHP but even then they are finding problems with installing these as a retrofit.
Air-source heat pump FTW (Score:2)
GSHPs are the gold standard in terms of efficiency, but they also come with a much bigger capital cost, and are not possible in a lot of locations due to the land area requirements to run the loops or wells.
ASHPs are the "good enough" answer. They still capture the bulk of the efficiency gains, but have much lower capital costs. Their main problem is that they don't work at extreme cold temperatures, but that's limited to a relatively small area of the world, and in areas where you get extreme cold for only
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yes it carries on until November of 2023, its the second to last sentence you lazy fuck
Re: Why heating? (Score:2)
What you havent realized is that you will not be allowed to have a car. Your energy consumption will be rationed down to the point that you will not get enough of an energy allotment to charge one, so you will be forced to move into the city. Thatâ(TM)s the goal. Itâ(TM)s already being talked about - https://www.upi.com/Top_News/W... [upi.com]
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LOL! I been hearing that same load of nonsense from the kooks and crazies fro the last 40 years.
As an added bonus, your link doesn't even remotely support "your" silly claims.
We'll talk about how to make apostrophes work another day.
Re: Why heating? (Score:2)
I didnt claim that government one day will show up and confiscate private cars. They will simply manage private cars out of existence. First they will push the subscription model. They will ration energy. They will increase taxes and fees. Your house will be taxed based on its square footage. You will become weary of being nickel and dimed every month and will give up your car. The suburbs will become too difficult to live in and you will move yo a high density walkable city that some technocrat says is mor
Re: Why heating? (Score:3)
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Re:Never understood low AC settings (Score:4, Insightful)
82 is goddamned insane for an indoor setting! That's beach weather. So, sure... if shorts, flip-flops, and maybe a t-shirt are going to be acceptable office attire and offices install swimming pools or relocate oceanside so workers can take a dip to cool off every hour or so then yeah... set the thermostats to 82. Otherwise, things are going to get really sticky, dank, and smelly really quick. (And Spain is off my tourism list. I'll tolerate broiling hot weather on vacation, but not if I can't get at least an occasional respite from the dripping sweat.)
Hell... 82 degrees is too goddamned hot even outside... which is why it's beach weather in the first place.
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You're a whiner. 82 is barely considered warm for outside.
82 inside is warm because there's little air circulation. Move the air around and it won't feel like 82. More the mid-70s.
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No No. It'll still feel pretty warm and put me to sleep pretty darn quickly especially after lunch.
So move to Spain and have your siesta.
Re: Never understood low AC settings (Score:2)
During most summer days the AC only runs on the 3rd floor where my office is.
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82 inside is warm because there's little air circulation. Move the air around and it won't feel like 82. More the mid-70s.
I agree that a well-placed fan will provide active cooling. As an electronic designer, I come across data relating tolerable heat output to airflow. That is without the assistance of evaporating water (sweat). It is worthwhile installing a fan to stir the air in a sealed enclosure, to reduce hot spots. I believe this is the principle behind large ceiling fans often used in hot countries, if they can't afford AC.
Heatsink theory shows that heat is dissipated partly by radiation, but mostly by conduction to th
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That said, I don't like overly air conditioned rooms either. we usually set ours between 73 and 76 degrees (F-reedom)
Really the most important thing is that it runs occasionally to suck out the humidity.
At 82 it's basically not going to run after midnight or so, and I'd be sleeping in super saturated Georgia summer air, no thanks.
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Our ACs are all set to 80.6 Barbarian Unite (which is 27 Celsius, in case you were wondering). In the wintertime, the central heating unit is usually set to 71.6 (22 Celsius), but this upcoming winter we are going to set it to 66.2 (19 Celsius). It would be a wee bit uncomfortable, but it's a VERY small price to pay for freedom.
Just a few days ago, here where I live the temperature shot up to a maximum recorded of 107.6 (42 Celsius); going inside at 80.6 felt cold.
generally speaking, we're prepared to make
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Nah. 66.2 would be perfectly cromulent, indoor or out. I'm not sure of the indoor temperature at the moment. But it's 65 degrees and sunny outside where I am right now. And I was perfectly comfortable when I went out to receive a package in shorts and sandals and equally comfortable when I threw on jeans and real shoes to run out for lunch.
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65F is the perfect indoor temperature for me. Comfortable shorts and t-shirt temperature without sweating. Not chilly at all.
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I think you hit the nail on the head there. A lot office building are set pretty cold because traditional mens office attire is pretty warm even in summer.
I am traditionalist in a lot of ways but its probably time to really revist what is and isnt business attire. I am NOT suggesting we go sloppy casual and just say everyone is free to walk around in cuttoff jeans and t-shirt but some of the expectations around long sleeves, long pants and fitted/tailored garments in high summer need to be rethought.
Same i
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I think you hit the nail on the head there. A lot office building are set pretty cold because traditional mens office attire is pretty warm even in summer.
But think about the ladies in the office and the skirts & dresses that they wear, not to mention the paper-thin underwear they sometimes wear.
Imagine what such cold air will do to them!
Yeah...wait a minute.
Imagine what such cold air will do to those ladies!
Set that office AC to COLD? I'm all for it!
/sarcasm?
Re: Never understood low AC settings (Score:2)
So get back to licking already.
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Re:Never understood low AC settings (Score:5, Informative)
82 seems very warm for me. I am normally good with 69-74, which is generally comfortable with short or long sleeve shirts.
However the really low AC settings often used in Businesses are often from multiple factors.
1. Unequal power to cool the building. Air Ducts will blow cooler air closer to the compressor and warmer air near the end of its travel, so to keep an office at 75 at the end of the duct, it may be making an other room 66.
2. Normal Business attire. While most businesses no longer follow this, the building were designed for Men in Suite and Ties, which includes a jacket.
3. Big rooms are hard to cool. Offices and Cubes are rooms often larger than the standard 12x12 room for a house. Making a lot of cubic feet to cool.
4. Stores want people to shop. If it is a store setting. Going from a 90 to a 68 degree spot, is often a pleasant experience, and going from 68 back to 90 is something they kinda dread. So they will stay in the store and shop longer.
5. Heating is more expensive than cooling. A lot of building may have a 66 degree set year around, saving in heating during the winter, which is more of a savings then the extra expense in the summer.
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Heating is more expensive than cooling. ...
They need to move to the use of Heat pumps for heating, and Solar energy for heating can be captured inexpensively without needing photovoltaics, etc.
By using Heat pumps for heating can consume less energy than the amount of energy being moved from a ground source and stop burning fuel to release heat directly, then the heating won't be so much more energy intensive than cooling.
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Heat pumps are a better in general for generating heat... However they are still not efficient as cooling. I have a heat pump for my home, I still pay more for power to heat my home in the winder than AC in the summer for both extreme temps.
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The distance to the compressor has nothing to do with it, maybe the distance to the fan. But even then, where you have those sorts of uneven cooling & heating problems the real issue is either a poorly balanced system or a lack of good functioning controls.
This is true. But even so, it'
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> Heating is more expensive than cooling
--What are you on about? In winter I use a small electric heater in the room I occupy the most, and my electric bill in summer is HALF AGAIN MORE when my AC is running.
Winter: Under $100 usually
Summer: $150-190 with ONE AC unit running
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We had a meeting room that was minus 30 C in winter. Meetings were short.
"As you can see on the Solid Crystal Display screen..."
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82F, that is 27C. Wow, I would need a large fan with at least 20km/h airspeed blowing right at my face.
I have spent 6 hours or so in a datacenter with similar temperature (no fan though). After that, I did not need a jacket when I went outside and did not need heat when I was driving home - outside temperature was around 2C at the time.
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That depends on the individual and on the environment they are used to.
When I had a project in Phoenix, they would complain about indoor temperatures below 78F. But they're used to outside temperatures around 100F in the summer, with low humidity. I've also flown there in the winter when the low temperature was in the 40s (Fahrenheit) and the high in the 60s and they complained about how it
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For comparison I'm very comfortable and still wearing a t-shirt at 72, and while I'm somewhat ok with 80, it can feel oppressive and bog me down mentally if there's no airflow. That's also too warm for sleeping, but that may be because I'm accustomed to a desert climate with cold nights. We'll only close the windows (and maybe turn on heating) when the indoor night-time temperatures drop below 64.
My spouse likes it even colder, and used to keep her heating set at 15 C.
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The body adopts, and we have to adopt the temperatures.
When my school is set to 72 (later work), there is no way I can stay comfortable at home at 80, even if I was used to it before. By making all workplaces, malls, banks a uniform 72, they pretty much force our bodies to switch to winter attire in the summer.
It needs to be in lockstep. If all public places switch up to 80, homes and personal vehicles can also do the same.
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My preferred AC setting is no lower than 82.
It would be hard to down mod a bad post if it started at 82.
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You must be a scrawny vegan that gets cold super easily. My fat American ass would melt in 82 degree indoor air. 82 is fine outside only in the shade with a breeze. Proper indoor temperature is about 72 F.
Re:Never understood low AC settings Humidity? (Score:2)
27C or 80F is fine at like 20% humidity with airflow, not so much at +50% humidity with or without airflow. On really humid nights, like with a 74F dew point you either run the AC at like 68 to dry out the air, or get used to being wet and condensation on the walls.
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However I would perish under the 66.2 setting
Remember that those are public spaces, not private homes. You are probably going inside those places with full jacket, etc. 66.2 is reasonable.
Same for the other setting, you come from the street with ten more degrees so it feels cool there. Also a lot of the AC effect is the lower humidity, and you get that too.
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My preferred AC setting is no lower than 82.
You are a reptile, then. At that temperature, I would seriously consider cutting back the work load, and taking precautions to avoid dehydration.
I suppose it depends on what you are used to. My friend worked in the engine room of merchant ships many years ago, and I am assured that this is typically a very hot working environment. He loved the heat, and also had a aversion to heavy clothing. Roasting in the summer sun in the South of France was his idea of fun. He ended up so thoroughly tanned that he came
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I suppose it depends on a couple of things...where you live, wit
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My preferred AC setting is no lower than 82. [...] However I would perish under the 66.2 setting
See, and I'm exactly the opposite. I'd perish under 82, I need it to be at least ten degrees lower than that at night or I simply won't be able to sleep. But I'd be willing to do a sort of cap and trade system. I'd buy extra cooling units in the summer, and sell heating units in the winter. I'm perfectly happy with my house at 60 degrees in winter time.
Re: Never understood low AC settings (Score:2)
My thermostat is set to 65 in the summer.
It's going to stay that way too.
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any AC setting is going to also de-humidify to some extent
Not "Any" setting. If the thermostat set high enough so that it hardly ever runs, such as set to 83 while it's 80 degrees outside, then it won't be dehumidifying at a rate faster than moisture is coming in from outside air.
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this is why you also have your thermostat set to trigger if the inside humidity is too high - i have mine set to a range of 70F to 80F and a max of 55% humidity.. in the spring & fall it only ever cuts on to pull the water out of the air, else we would get mold here in NC where it can routinely be 90+% humidity
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Interesting.
I've never heard of or seen a thermostat that measures humidity!?!?
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Nests have for years - i don't' let it auto schedule, but i do like the ability to program them and also use them in IFTTT setups.
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any AC setting is going to also de-humidify to some extent
Not "Any" setting. If the thermostat set high enough so that it hardly ever runs, such as set to 83 while it's 80 degrees outside, then it won't be dehumidifying at a rate faster than moisture is coming in from outside air.
I'm going to sound like an asshole, but buy a dehumidifier. You set it to whatever, 50, 55, 60% RH instead of a temperature and just let it go to town. No more overcooling.
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but buy a dehumidifier. You set it to whatever, 50, 55, 60% RH instead of a temperature and just let it go to town
These are not a great idea.. less efficient than just running the AC, and Dehumidifiers will generate extra unwanted heat indoors. - A dehumidifier's mechanically the same as a Window Air-Conditioning unit, only they don't bother piping hot air from the high side outdoors.. the operation of motors will put out extra heat Indoors, and a dehumidifier has a heating element to heat the dehumid
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but buy a dehumidifier. You set it to whatever, 50, 55, 60% RH instead of a temperature and just let it go to town
These are not a great idea.. less efficient than just running the AC, and Dehumidifiers will generate extra unwanted heat indoors. - A dehumidifier's mechanically the same as a Window Air-Conditioning unit, only they don't bother piping hot air from the high side outdoors.. the operation of motors will put out extra heat Indoors, and a dehumidifier has a heating element to heat the dehumidified air coming out in order to avoid cooling the air. The A/C which exhausts heat outdoors is a smarter idea.
We were literally just talking about the situation where the AC thermostat is very close to the ambient temperate but the home is humid, so why is a small amount of waste heat a problem? 83/80 degrees, that was you.
You make it sound like a dehumidifier intentionally generates waste heat to compensate for its cooling, holy physics Batman, the heat is free. It's how a compressor works, a dehumidifier can't cool the air if it tried. It's a compressor with the hot side and cold side in the same box, it's lik
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so why is a small amount of waste heat a problem?
Because this pushes up the temperature indoors, and now the A/C's eventually going to have to kick on to compensate for the extra heat. They do deliberately heat in addition to the waste heat, because heating air reduces the relative humidity percentage of the air..
Cooling the air actually increases the Relative Humidity level of the air at the colder temperature up to 100% causing condensation and removal of water volume.. the humidity does not decrea
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That is untrue. An air system needs to bring supply air below 60F in order to get the space down close to 50% RH, even with an 82F space. Most systems are designed for around 55F cooling coil discharge air for that reason. But if you're doing the required ventilation, and only bringing the space down to 82F, then something has to give. Either you're delivering air that's not cool enough to do dehumidification, or you're cycl
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Re:Good for Spain (Score:4, Informative)
That generalisation doesn't apply to Spain. On the Atlantic coast houses might not have AC, but in the rest of the country AC is pretty common. OTOH this new law doesn't apply to domestic usage, so it's an irrelevance anyway.
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30C means a very big fan, with lots of airflow, to the point that it becomes difficult to have a conversation with someone due to the noise. I remember the time when I did not have AC at home and was sleeping with multiple fans on, in the noise that made it difficult hear people talking. When I did not have AC in my car, some times the only way to feel at least a little bit cool was to open all windows and drive at least 80km/h.
On the other hand, I am OK with the 19C limit in winter, IMO it can be dropped e
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At 10C (50F), you just might create problems with condensation and the like.
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I remember when I was a kid, that sometimes the classroom would be cold, IIRC the minimum allowed was 8C, below that we could go home. We just wore warm clothes.
My opinion about this was always "it is easier to warm oneself up than cool oneself down". I understand that it takes a lot of energy to cool down a large building, so I understand why the maximum is so high (at 27C, I would not stay in such a place for long unless they were paying me a lot, especially if it's hot outside as well).. However, the min
It applies to public & large commercial buildi (Score:2)
It's good to see European countries cutting back and making sacrifices before the crisis really hits. 80 may seem pretty toasty, but I had an entire summer with the AC set to 85. Sip some ice water and maybe turn on a fan and you'll feel fine.
Anyone who finds those ranges uncomfortable can work from home, if possible. Otherwise, you're only suffering during the work day. You can do whatever you want in your home if I understand the summary correctly. That's a nice compromise.
In the USA, a lot of offices are not very smart about AC usage. They just keep it running during a set schedule, including on holidays and often after hours. They also do little to control which rooms get AC/heat. So you end up with one central room that feels like
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Europeans don't put ice in their drinks. (their loss!)
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I don't know what your source for that is, but you should start adding at least a kilo of salt to any other information you obtained from the same source.
Slight Confusion (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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Luckily this will never happen in the US. Americans would set their AC to 65 just to rebel.
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They should have listened to Trump in 2018 and they would not be in this situation
Only on Slashdot will libtards downvote such a completely accurate comment. From the article mentioned by parent:
One of them captured the amused reactions of the German delegation as Trump said: "Germany will become totally dependent on Russian energy if it does not immediately change course. Here in the Western Hemisphere, we are committed to maintaining our independence from the encroachment of expansionist foreign powers."
German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas could be seen smirking alongside his colleagues.
Guess who is smirking now.
Regards,
A Biden voter.
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Ronald Reagan warned them in 1982. [nytimes.com]
The Reagan Administration has opposed the pipeline project, contending that it would make Europe dangerously dependent on Soviet energy supplies and that it would provide the Kremlin with muchneeded hard currency that could be spent on extra weaponry. . . . European governments, however, say that American fears about European dependence on Soviet gas supplies are ill-founded and exaggerated.
Broken clocks and Presidents (Score:2)
Guess who is smirking now.
Broken clocks are still right twice a day so I suppose it is only reasonable that broken presidents are right once or twice a term. However, just like the clock, it's no help to know that since you have no clue exactly when they are going to be right.
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Actually a lot of Germany's energy is coming from Russia and it would have been worse if NorthStream 2 had started delivering gas too. When Trump made his statement NorthStream 2 was on track to be opened by now.
As much as I hate to say it: Trump was right in that regard, even though he is a *@?!!! and I really hope that he won't get another term as POTUS. His first term has already caused to much damage, not just to the US but to humanity and the environment as a whole.
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They can move away from Russian natural gas; the big question is do they need to do this before winter or not. Yes, they should have done this earlier, back when Putin was still pretending to be everyone's friend. But that does not mean Trump was a stable genius who know all this stuff no one else did - Trump was, is, and continues to be a moron despite occasionally be right by accident.
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Re: Will they also ban Trump from being in country (Score:5, Insightful)
He said "totally dependent", which is a bit hyperbolic but can be interpreted a bit differently: if it's not 100% Russian gas, but it's enough for them to be ROYALLY FUCKED without the Russian gas, then it's still "totally".
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1) A link to a paywall site means little.
You can sign up for a free trial to get the content which would educate you. Or you could google. I mean there's no a single article published in the past few months that paint what is happening in Germany in anything other than dire.
Here's a hint for you apologists: What you think Trump meant is irrelevant. Germany has asked EU countries for a 15% curb in gas usage with the expectation that they will have to heavily gas ration in winter and that they will fall into recession exclusively due to the lack of
Re: Will they also ban Trump from being in countr (Score:2)
toÂtalÂly /ËtÅdlÄ"/
adverb
completely; absolutely.
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Do you live in a town hall or an airport?
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Unfortunately, it's been frozen into an icicle
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Euros consider suffering to be a virtue, so they love this desperation shit.
Re: Fuck you Spain. (Score:2)
Because a really smart Euro parliamentarian said they should increase the tax on Chinese solar panels and the other euro dicks voted it for in.
As a result the German solar panel industry is booming now.
Welcome to European democracy at work.
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Because a really smart Euro parliamentarian said they should increase the tax on Chinese solar panels and the other euro dicks voted it for in.
As a result the German solar panel industry is booming now.
Welcome to European democracy at work.
Afaik the EU tax on Chinese solar panels was in force 2013-2018 and no longer applies https://www.reuters.com/articl... [reuters.com] ;-)
There is however an EU tax on Chinese solar glass since 2014 https://renewablesnow.com/news... [renewablesnow.com]
Welcome to sourced claims
Re: Fuck you Spain. (Score:2)
Yes it no longer applies. But the only affect that it would have had during that time was reducing rather than increasing solar investment and reduction in the past means less energy in the present.
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Yes it no longer applies. But the only affect that it would have had during that time was reducing rather than increasing solar investment and reduction in the past means less energy in the present.
The complaint leading to the taxes was that China was subsidizing their production of panels to the detriment of other producers. I can certainly appreciate how an end consumer could see that as a windfall, but I expect elected leaders to do better. The idea of painting the Chinese government breaching trade agreements as something positive and the EU reaction successfully correcting the behavior as a failure of democracy is imho naive at best.
Re: Fuck you Spain. (Score:2)
Perhaps combating climate change is more important that trading regulations ?
Nah! That would be naive at best.
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I for my part agreed with the sentiment though, even though I can't say that I agreed on many things that came from Trump.
And I was also met with the usual knee-jerks of being a Russian people hater and shilling for US LNG, because you know, if you are critical of energy and heating policy directions your country has been taking for a while, then there is no o
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so why is it europe's fault that the us wanted so badly to poke russia in the eye, ahem, sorry, scratch that ... bring democracy (and nato) to ukraine?
this is a manufactured crisis. ukraine is just the pretext, europe is the actual playground and all (well, most) europeans are pretty much screwed and totally expendable anyway, who gives a shit if they are hot in summer or cold in winter.
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This has nothing to do with the US or NATO. No one was poking Putin in the eye, except himself. Ukraine was not a threat to Russia, whether they joined NATO or the EU. Neither is the US for what it's worth. It's all about Putin's vain glory. Thanks to the corruption of Putin's government and cronies, Russia is decades behind where it ought to be. Putin says he mourns this fact, but he himself has greatly caused it. Putin sees himself as the emperor, rebuilding a grand Russian empire. NATO is just an