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United States

Taiwan President Says She Looks Forward To Producing 'Democracy Chips' With US (reuters.com) 72

Posted by msmash from the marching-ahead dept.
Taiwan looks forward to producing "democracy chips" with the United States, President Tsai Ing-wen told the visiting governor of the U.S. state of Arizona, Doug Ducey, on Thursday, the latest in a string of senior officials from the county to visit. From a report: Taiwan has been keen to show the United States, its most important international backer and arms supplier despite the lack of formal diplomatic ties, that it is a reliable friend as a global chip crunch impacts auto production and consumer electronics. Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co, a major Apple supplier and the world's largest contract chipmaker, is constructing a $12 billion plant in Arizona.

"In the face of authoritarian expansionism and the challenges of the post-pandemic era, Taiwan seeks to bolster cooperation with the United States in the semiconductor and other high-tech industries," Tsai said at the meeting in the presidential office in Taipei. "This will help build more secure and more resilient supply chains. We look forward to jointly producing democracy chips to safeguard the interests of our democratic partners and create greater prosperity."
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Taiwan President Says She Looks Forward To Producing 'Democracy Chips' With US More

Taiwan President Says She Looks Forward To Producing 'Democracy Chips' With US

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  • Chips (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Crowded ( 6202674 ) on Friday September 02, 2022 @12:45PM (#62846861)

    They better be as yummy as "Freedom Fries".

  • Democracy chips (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Joce640k ( 829181 ) on Friday September 02, 2022 @12:48PM (#62846881) Homepage

    Are they referring to the injectable mind-control chips they use in the "vaccines"?

  • Sorry (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Chips? Taiwan can expect a fat zilchynada from the US. We all know the USA will do absolutely zero. The proper move for the USA to protect Taiwan is to work with Taiwan and EU intelligence agencies to support anti-Xi people/organizations within China. That's what China and Russia did to gift us with Trump .. why can't we do the same to them? Except not put a nationalist looney. For fucks sake, the CIA has a $XX billion dollar budget and they really don't seem to know anything about China and have zero conne

    • Taiwan can expect a fat zilchynada from the US. We all know the USA will do absolutely zero.

      The US has sold a lot of really nice weapons to Taiwan.

    • For fucks sake, the CIA has a $XX billion dollar budget and they really don't seem to know anything about China and have zero connections there. It's like everything they know about China is stuff they see on the news or on google maps satell.

      And how would you know what the CIA knows. I am betting that as an intelligence agency, the CIA does not divulge what they know about other countries and what assets they might have in other countries. Heck, the CIA had agents in the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Did they broadcast that to the world? No. Did you ever think there was a reason for that?

      • Re:Sorry (Score:5, Informative)

        by Entrope ( 68843 ) on Friday September 02, 2022 @02:16PM (#62847127) Homepage

        The CIA used to have a well-developed network of agents in China. Then they screwed up in a phenomenal manner. https://foreignpolicy.com/2018... [foreignpolicy.com]

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dgatwood ( 11270 )

          Seems like their first mistake was using a bespoke system instead of relying on an end-to-end-encrypted messaging system that is also used by the general public, so that there's no suspicious encrypted traffic that looks different from anybody else's. Hide in plain sight.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Entrope ( 68843 )

            China blocks [protocol.com] those kinds of apps at the Great Firewall. You can't hide in non-existent traffic.
             

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by dgatwood ( 11270 )

              China blocks [protocol.com] those kinds of apps at the Great Firewall. You can't hide in non-existent traffic.

              If I understand correctly, there are a couple of different levels of access. The sorts of contacts that the CIA would probably want to work with are likely to be higher-level government officials, etc., which I would assume would have similar access to what foreign visitors have.

              Also, AFAIK iMessage is still allowed, and it is end-to-end encrypted as long as you turn off iCloud backups.

    • Haha, we have been doing that since way before China was communist. Seriously they haven't done a thing to us. Why do we have to get into a conflict with them? So that our rich people can get richer? At what cost? If China wanted to destroy Taiwan, they could do it in a single day. They don't want to do it. The only reason behind our push for a conflict with China is the fear of losing our tittle as world's largest/first economy.

      • Destroy Taiwan in a day... sure... if they nuked it.

        Actually taking it over is another story. With current forces and tech they'd lose and it would be very costly.

        And on top of that, even if they took over Taiwan militarily in a month, which would be a miracle, where do you think a fuck ton of china's food and energy comes from? That's right, the sea and other countries. They'll be out of food and energy in no time.

        China is not attacking Taiwan and sure as hell can't take it over in a day. That's sheer

        • China is the asshole of the classroom, no doubt. But he is the big asshole that was held back two years and has a beard in sixth grade. Taiwan has no chance if China puts his heart into conquering Taiwan. The US would enforce sanctions for a total shrinkage of 10%ish of the Chinese economy, China would face a few more protests, and it would take up to a couple of years plus a couple generations for the cultural genocide but China very much could accomplish it.
        • A war at this time isn't a good Idea (it never is). It's like last century is repeating itself. Pandemic, Depression, Racism and War. You talk about Fentanyl, read about the opium wars. I fear that this time around a war will not go in our favor. BTW going to war for IP theft is just going to a war so that a billionaire can keep his pockets lined.

          • I agree with you. War is the option of last resort and no I was not in any way suggesting nor do I believe we should engage in military conflict over IP theft. No one I know of thinks that.

            As far as a China vs Taiwan+US+maybe other war goes...

            China has the obvious advantage in range. They have zero modern combat experience, never performed an amphibious invasion (a super complex and difficult military tactic you don't just magically do on any random Tuesday), their weapon systems sound ominous on paper,

            • You're assuming the US would start world war III to defend Taiwan. Take away that one massive assumption and your whole scenario falls apart. If Taiwan has to defend itself, even with American toys and American intelligence, it's not going to be able to do things like blow up the three gorges dam. All it's going to be able to do is make it a very expensive war for China. Not that Taiwan has actually declared independence from China.

              China can easily blockade Taiwan and easily get troops over to it once line

              • I think the US simply -has- to defend Taiwan. Directly and all in.

                Anything less and the entire western alliance system collapses if we become untrustworthy to defend our allies after we've said so countless times. Becoming a paper tiger joke to the world is far more expensive than fighting China over Taiwan.

                Why would we -not- fight China? At things stand now we will win. It won't be easy but we'll win. If we want to go there and guarantee a win we can wreck their entire country by doing things like des

      • Taiwan is a very good ally of the United States who does not wish to be part of the Chinese Communist Party (a brutal authoritarian dictatorship - that was actually improving for a while, but President Pooh Bear totally reversed all of that progress).

        We are willing to protect Taiwan because it's morally right, economically beneficial, and strategically wise from a military standpoint.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by ecloud ( 3022 )

          We are willing to protect Taiwan because it's morally right, economically beneficial, and strategically wise from a military standpoint.

          Puh-lease. These are politicians and the military you are talking about: they don't have morals, and they want more control of things themselves. "Supporting democracy" is just how they sell to the proles certain plans that they already made.

          Currently it seems like a little chip-production protectionism is in vogue (although I suspect that won't continue indefinitely: the oligarchs steer the government towards globalism, most of the time; whereas protectionism is a kind of market inefficiency, most of the

      • If China wanted to destroy Taiwan, they could do it in a single day.

        Vladimir, is that you?

        • The point is, They don't want to cause damage to the Taiwanese. We are more dangerous to Taiwan than China, cause we like to stir trouble wherever we go, without thinking about the consequences.
    • The highest compliment you can pay to an intelligence agency is to say, "What, those incompetent fucks? They couldn't outglow a match struck in water. Ignore them"

    • Chips? Taiwan can expect a fat zilchynada from the US. We all know the USA will do absolutely zero.

      Nah - not only is Taiwan economically important, but militarily the island is too strategic to the region to let China control it. The US would intervene militarily in the event of an attack, which is why despite every time being "This is the last straw!!!!!" (eg, the Soviet proverb of China's Final Warning [wikipedia.org]). all China does is posture and do "exercises" rather than actually attack Taiwan. Its basically Operation Temper Tantrum from them.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      That's what China and Russia did to gift us with Trump ..

      Oh please! Just stop! We did it to ourselves.. All his corrupt predecessors gifted us with Trump. I watched it happen for 60 years. Or do you believe we're really so weak, then indeed we are doomed

  • Delicious with a little salsa and cheese.

  • "In the face of authoritarian expansionism" (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Somervillain ( 4719341 ) on Friday September 02, 2022 @01:20PM (#62846963)
    Sadly, I had to think a minute to wonder if she was referring to ours or theirs. Yup, China is a LOT worse, but now that many politicians actively support voter disenfranchisement and consider election rules their own party put in place as "scams" when they lose...and seem to really be doubling down against democracy and the will of the voter...We have a significant portion of the population claiming the last election was "rigged" with no reasonable information suggesting so based on wishful thinking. We have an ex-president flirting with pardoning people who engaged in a deadly criminal insurrection....probably dozens of other worrying examples as well...

    I feel like Americans complaining about authoritarian expansionism is like Louis CK complaining about Bill Cosby's conduct. One is MUCH MUCH MUCH worse than the other...but man...we used to be a much better role model in the whole democracy thing.

    • but man...we used to be a much better role model in the whole democracy thing.

      When

    • Let's all hope the mid terms and 2024 Presidential doesn't set the stage for our trip into the abyss.

      Democracy - the least worst system.

    • Re:"In the face of authoritarian expansionism" (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Whateverthisis ( 7004192 ) on Friday September 02, 2022 @02:41PM (#62847195)
      Tammany Hall (1850's to about 1940's).

      Rod Blagovich trying to sell Obama's vacated Senator seat (2014).

      The Teapot Dome Scandal [wikipedia.org] of 1921-23.

      Watergate.

      The numerous scandals [wikipedia.org] of the Grant administration, 1868-1876.

      McCarthyism.

      The US has always had it's fair share of issues, from outright corruption to trends towards authoritarianism and fascism from both the Left and the Right. And yet, the US is better. Why? Because we're open about our faults and acknowledge them. And more importantly, our interests are not so entrenched that even a guy as bad as Trump can be eliminated from office and held accountable through an admittedly messy, long, loud, political, legal process, and that power can transfer back without violence.

      Xi and many in the CCP are just as corrupt, particularly given the egregious human rights abuses that the CCP overseas. Do you really think any members of the CCP can be removed from power all the way to the top and held accountable for their actions without a violent coup?

      Any system will be ruined by humans, because humans are just fallible beings. The thing about the US system is that those fallible beings can be removed and a new regime put into place in a peaceful transfer of power. One can argue Jan 6, but that only proves my point: when an outgoing administration incited violence to hold on to power, it still lost and the victorious administration won in a peaceful way. In that one element alone, the US system is a shining beacon on the hill.

    • we used to be a much better role model in the whole democracy thing.

      America has always been an oligarchy, and it has literally attacked democracies in other countries because their increase in democracy decreased their alignment with our interests. America's success has been founded in large part (in addition to even more divisive stuff I won't go into now) on squandering natural capital.

    • Sadly, I had to think a minute to wonder if she was referring to ours or theirs.

      What the hell are you talking about? The last time the US permanently acquired any territory following what could even remotely be considered an act of aggression was the Tripartite Convention in 1899. Ever since then it only acquired a few territories designated to its jurisdiction by the UN after WWII, all of which have been ceded as we had always planned to do.

      Sure, you could argue that the US is imperialistic, though that's not always a bad thing. The sanctions we placed on Russia are by definition an a

    • if we survive the next 3 election cycles it'll be time for a New New Deal. That's why you're seeing so many anti-democratic attacks. The 20,000 or so at the top with all the power don't want to let it go. They're greedy. Enough is never enough. It's time for a rebalancing and they know it. So they're trying to shut down our Republic.

  • A bold statement (Score:5, Interesting)

    by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Friday September 02, 2022 @01:24PM (#62846981)
    'Freedom Chips' is a funny phrase but standing inTaipei and criticizing 'authoritarian expansionism and the challenges of the post-pandemic era' (i.e. slapping China in the face) is a bold stance.

    Honestly I'm impressed. If she can say this and follow through with it then China clearly has less power over her than it exercised over Jack Ma.

  • they would produce sun chips, I much prefer sun chips to any other kind of chip, even potato chips.
  • We call them Freedom Fries.

  • Time for Migration? (Score:3)

    by heretic108 ( 454817 ) on Friday September 02, 2022 @09:53PM (#62848215)
    Now could be a really good time for Taiwan to start moving its plant to USA, and cut a deal with USA to get an allocation of land with a semi-autonomous administrative district. Then, China can have Taiwan with the compliments of the entire west. They can have that little island, with all the charred concrete rubble of demolished buildings.

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