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China Supercomputing United States Technology

US Eyes Expanding China Tech Ban To Quantum Computing and AI (bloomberg.com) 47

Posted by BeauHD from the what-to-expect dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: The Biden administration is exploring the possibility of new export controls that would limit China's access to some of the most powerful emerging computing technologies, according to people familiar with the situation. The potential plans, which are in an early stage, are focused on the still-experimental field of quantum computing, as well as artificial intelligence software, according to the people, who asked not to be named discussing private deliberations. Industry experts are weighing in on how to set the parameters of the restrictions on this nascent technology, they said. The efforts, if implemented, would follow separate restrictions announced earlier this month aimed at stunting Beijing's ability to deploy cutting-edge semiconductors in weapons and surveillance systems.

National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, in a speech last month on technology, competitiveness and national security, referred to "computing-related technologies, including microelectronics, quantum information systems and artificial intelligence" as among developments "set to play an outsized importance over the coming decade." He also noted the importance of export controls to "maintain as large of a lead as possible" over adversaries. Expanding the wall around advanced technologies risks further antagonizing China and forcing other countries to pick sides between the world's two top economies. The new ideas have been shared with US allies, according to the people. Officials are still determining how to frame the controls on quantum computing, which will probably focus on the level of output and the so-called error correction rate, the people said. [...] The Biden administration is also working on an executive order for an outbound investment review mechanism that would scrutinize money heading to certain Chinese technologies, and the quantum computing and artificial intelligence controls could be included, one of the people said. That could incorporate some aspects similar to a measure pushed by senators Bob Casey, a Pennsylvania Democrat, and John Cornyn, a Texas Republican.
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US Eyes Expanding China Tech Ban To Quantum Computing and AI More

US Eyes Expanding China Tech Ban To Quantum Computing and AI

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  • Do it (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RemindMeLater ( 7146661 ) on Friday October 21, 2022 @05:05PM (#62987079)
    China has clearly shown it does not care for international norms or good relations. See its rampant intellectual property theft, its claim to the entire South China Sea (they lied about militarizing the islands), its illegitimate claim to Taiwan and plans to violently seize a peaceful democratic nation, its subjugation bordering on genocide of the Uyghurs, its oppressive surveillance state of its own people. Why help them in any way? They are not our friends and never will be. Ever.
    • Every Day Low Prices?

      • wallmart rolling back unions, workers pay, us jobs.

        • While it was cheap Chinese goods that enabled Walmart, it was Chicago school of Economics [wikipedia.org], which has taught generations of business people that their ethics lie in reducing costs (gutting unions) and returning shareholder value (over societal norms of paying taxes) that has really hurt the American people

          Sure, China is a threat to American hegemony on the global stage, but current US business practices do more harm to the average American than anything that China could pull off (including dumping tons of f

    • Not even Taiwan itself claims to be an independent Nation. After Mao's forces defeated Chiang Kai-shek, then President of China, he and his forces retreated to Taiwan and not only did he not declare Taiwan independent he continued to claim to be the legitimate President of China. In-fact for most of the Cold War, the U.S recognized his government as the legitimate government of China. This all changed following Nixon's visit to China in 1971. The U.S agreed to recognize the Communist government and to abide
      • Of course Taiwan can't claim to be independent! They have a cocked and loaded gun pointed at them. CCP hates having a flourishing democracy on their doorstep as an alternative to their fascist, kleptocratic rule.
    • äåoeå¾zæoeæ"æoeåç£äYäæoefçSå-åç£
    • Haha, US pointing fingers at China for clearly showning it does not care for international norms or good relations? It's the pot calling the kettle black. If there is a country that bullies the rest of the world, it's the US. Always meddling in other countries politics, while whining when others do it to them. Illegally invading other countries under false pretences. Blocking other countries from developing nukes while continuing refreshing and expanding their own. Acting like they developed technology, whi

    • China has clearly shown it does not care for international norms or good relations.

      Whereas the US has been a model international citizen? bit of the pot calling the kettle black there.

    • Why help them in any way? They are not our friends and never will be. Ever.

      I wouldn't go that far, but it certainly doesn't make sense to help them while they still have this government, because any "help" will quickly be diverted into harm.

    • What are you talking about? How do you think US became big? by being honest, decent and moral?

      Look, what you are saying is just propaganda, US propaganda. It's OK, every nation have its own agenda and they deliver it through propaganda. China does it too. Right now, there's a Chinese posting exactly the same thing as you did. Just replace China with US and Taiwan with Hawaii.

      I mean, I don't give a fuck about US nor China, it's all human, all too human. It's not about right or wrong, good or bad, free
      • blah blah, it's always the same. I never claimed the US is flawless. Far from it. But the US doesn't engage in genocide, brutal repression, doesn't make insane territorial claims like that of the south china sea, doesn't threaten to invade a peaceful democracy. The US comes to the aid of Ukraine, aids Taiwan in its fight to live free from CCP hell.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by 1s44c ( 552956 )

      You blame China for all these terrible things but seem to have forgotten that every empire has, or is, also doing equivalent things.

      International Norms are exactly things you listed, sadly.

  • We won't know if they're actually banned it until we open the box to reveal the hackers already swiped the secrets anyhow.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      Ah shit, I used kwantum grammer ther. A forward-only arrow of time means Slashdot has no Edit and no Undo.

  • ... sounds like doing them a favor. You could just as well put homeopathic medicine on the embargo list, having similar practical consequences.

    • ... sounds like doing them a favor. You could just as well put homeopathic medicine on the embargo list, having similar practical consequences.

      Right. It seems to me that the PRC's technological dominance would lie not in big-ticket high technology but in those little IC-enabled devices, including the so-called Internet of Things. I'd be more afraid of what would happen if the PRC did start mass manufacturing backdoored "smart" bulbs, plugs, sensors, etc. Imagine some unglamorous hack that would trigger a blackout not in some high security military facility but in a few high-volume meat processing plants. Bye bye Big Mac.

  • This is short-sighted (Score:4, Interesting)

    by aldousd666 ( 640240 ) on Friday October 21, 2022 @05:23PM (#62987121) Journal
    Even if the US manages to stifle Chinese tech development via foreign supply chains, it's inevitable that they will actually figure this out for themselves. And when they do, they will be considerably less magnanimous than they are now to us. I don't agree with any of China's policies, virtually NONE. But this is a silly strategy to try and 'reign them in.'

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ffkom ( 3519199 )
      Indeed. And the outcome of wars will not be decided by whether chips in the weapons were produced with 5nm or 15nm structures.

      • It sure will in 5 -10 years when the US is fab-ing in sub-nm and China is still at 15nm

        • Except that technology isn't american. And I'll bet the Chinese will figure it out too, or already have, or just steal it, just like US an Chinese companies are already stealing from each other. Funny thing is, a lot of US technology was actually invented by chinese people working for US companies.
      • Perfectly viable weapons chips have existed well larger than 90nm.

    • Everything is about profit as makes sense, but China is an enemy society actively genociding Uighers.

      Cold War containment WORKED. Detente was a horrible mistake funding far more than Beijing's genocidal military and police apparatus cost. US trade enables the enemy. Stop wanting trade. It doesn't really promote peace, that wishful thinking naive drivel on a good day.

    • Sure, just like that advanced tech that Russia keeps fielding in Ukraine...

      FYI, the world spins on the doo dads the US licenses to them, when the US cuts you off, all the spinning stops (or at least wobbles a bit)

    • Both afraid to say we're just too far away
      From being close together from the start
      We tried to talk it over but the words got in the way
      We're lost inside this lonely game we play
      From, George Benson "This Masquerade"

      One internet is impossible.

    • Even if the US manages to stifle Chinese tech development via foreign supply chains, it's inevitable that they will actually figure this out for themselves.

      Eventually, yes.

      The idea is for the US/EU to get (whatever) before China does. First mover advantage is a real thing.

      The cost is that overall development of (whatever) will be slower because we don't share with each other: science works best in an environment of free and open exchange of ideas.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by narcc ( 412956 )

        science works best in an environment of free and open exchange of ideas.

        Most things do. The problem is getting everyone to cooperate fairly. See, when everyone else is playing by the rules and acting in good faith, it's easy to get away with cheating. It's why we find misconduct even in science.

        The problem here, I think, is one of culture. We celebrate success and venerate the successful. Even when that success is unearned, gained by unethical means, and even when their continued success is actively harmful. We're a sick people.

        If we could get back to at least a genera

    • A large percentage of AI researchers are Chinese grad students, whose work often forms the basis of USA startups as well as Chinese startups. If the export controls prevent these students from exporting their knowledge to China or to even be trained in the USA then expect a big decline in USA AI startups and in enrollment in graduate studies in universities. Although other rules have already made it difficult for foreign students so enrollment is already declining. The USA used to be accused of a "brain
  • The old man who owns /runs TMSC. He they don't have to destroy the chip foundries on the way out the door, because they won't have the brains to run it.. Plus tiny variations in the supply chain raw materials and your wazooed. So... technology know how is hard to get. Those limiting factors alone are enough to render technology like AI worth protecting.

    • I would be surprised if they don't load HF up in the sprinkler system just to take the first wave of mainland experts out

  • The Chinese menace will not be taken seriously (Score:3)

    by couchslug ( 175151 ) on Friday October 21, 2022 @06:37PM (#62987251)

    ...by most people until it attacks Taiwan.

    There is too much money on the line for principles to matter much so they have not so far. China is an enemy society, not a society with a temporary enemy government. Ask Hong Kongers how that works in practice, or Uighers but access to concentration camps may be problematic.

    • ...by most people until it attacks Taiwan.

      Never gonna happen.

      The CCP is patient. Look at what happened with Hong Kong... they got it eventually. They can afford to wait 100 years or more, expanding their influence in the region, until a generation of Taiwanese come of age who think "Why did we ever fight with the mainland? We are better off as one nation."

      If the China attacked and took Taiwan by force now, it would be a pyrrhic victory. They would have to blast it to barren rock -and Taiwan would level several coastal cities in retaliation. Th

    • Well, if the US keeps provoking China over Taiwan it would not be a big suprise if China would take back Taiwan. Most countries in the world still acknowledge Taiwan as being part of China.
  • It really doesn't matter at all. You're all well on the way to self destruction and technology is the key factor in it all. See you on the other side. Or not.

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