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California City Discovers It Doesn't Actually Know Where 60% of Its Recycling Goes (nbcnews.com) 92

Palo Alto, California began investigating where its recycling goes over four years ago, reports NBC News. The results? Palo Alto's best reckoning, today, is that about 40% of its recyclable material stays in North America, where it's supposed to be processed according to strict environmental and labor standards. The other roughly 60% goes abroad, mainly to Asia, with next to no transparency about its fate.

Experts say cities and towns across the United States would probably have similar difficulty in determining how much of their recyclables are actually recycled. "If you keep stuff out of landfill but just dump it in Laos, that's not achieving a good goal," said Martin Bourque of the Ecology Center in Berkeley, California, a group that advised Palo Alto in its pursuit of transparency. "That's not what the whole idea was of recycling."

The main obstacle that Palo Alto encountered was that the half-dozen companies that trade the city's recyclables on world markets declined to name their trading partners, citing business reasons. Unable to force disclosure, Palo Alto city staff concluded they are stuck. "It is not possible to definitively determine whether the materials are being recycled properly or whether they may be causing environmental or social problems," they wrote in a report published this year....

Palo Alto officials said they've taken two lessons from this saga. First, they want to recycle more in the U.S.... If made permanent, staff said, the change could increase the average citizen's recycling bill by about $33 a year. The second lesson, City Manager Ed Shikada said, is that Palo Alto can't transform the global recycling system alone. In March the city began talks with other interested California cities to discuss possible reforms at the local or state levels. The group includes San Jose, the largest city in the San Francisco Bay Area, and about a dozen other Northern California municipalities. Shikada said they might seek to expand recycling capacity in California, for instance, or ask lawmakers to impose new transparency requirements on companies that export recyclable goods.

The article cites World Bank estimates that only about 9% of waste ultimately gets recycled in East Asia and Pacific region. "The balance goes to landfills and incinerators or into nature, with local and global consequences.... Research suggests countries in Southeast Asia rank among the top global sources of ocean plastic."
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California City Discovers It Doesn't Actually Know Where 60% of Its Recycling Goes

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  • Executive summary (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Sunday December 04, 2022 @04:02PM (#63102110)

    They were only able to track 40% of their recyclables. They can't track where 60% ends up going.

    Given past discoveries about recycling sent overseas, the assumption is that 60% is NOT being handled responsibly. But they don't actually know.

    • by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Sunday December 04, 2022 @04:13PM (#63102146)

      They were only able to track 40% of their recyclables. They can't track where 60% ends up going.

      Given past discoveries about recycling sent overseas, the assumption is that 60% is NOT being handled responsibly. But they don't actually know.

      If the companies aren't forthcoming on where the recyclables are going you can bet the stuff isn't being recycled. If it was being recycled they'd eagerly come out and say so.

      Claiming they can't say because of business reasons is a cop out. The city should drop them, find new companies to recycle and include as part of the contract a requirement to disclose where the recyclables are going.

      • Re:Executive summary (Score:4, Informative)

        by brantondaveperson ( 1023687 ) on Sunday December 04, 2022 @05:02PM (#63102294) Homepage

        Yes, they should, you're right.

        However, the reality is that if they were to try that, they would find that most of what they're trying to recycle, can't actually be recycled. That would be... embarrassing.

        • Politicians in general tend to favor the coverup rather than just admit they might be wrong. We also share some blame in that as well, it's politically inviable to admit mistakes becasue your opponent will use it against you and chances are you won't get the votes despite the fact that most people would say being able to admit and correct mistakes is a redeemable quality in people.

      • Re:Executive summary (Score:5, Informative)

        by rudy_wayne ( 414635 ) on Sunday December 04, 2022 @07:13PM (#63102626)

        The city should drop them, find new companies to recycle

        Find new recycling companies .... where? This is the inconvenient truth -- proper recycling, *PROPER RECYCLING*, is not an economically viable business.

        Nobody is willing to start a business so they can lose money, and the *ONLY* way you make money in the recycling business is by cheating -- saying that you are recycling but actually just shipping stuff off to a landfill in a foreign country.

        • by chthon ( 580889 )

          Isn't it? I am working on two projects that exactly do that, handle accumulation, sorting and processing of waste. The people who finance these projects aren't exactly philanthropists. But it sure seems that processing waste is a viable business.

          • it sure seems that processing waste is a viable business.

            There are legal mandates for trash sorting, but there's no legal mandates for actually making sure that the sorted trash gets recycled, and nobody can do it profitably. All plastics can be recycled unprofitably through fluid bed pyrolysis, so it's a matter of will and not technology.

        • People aren't going to like the alternative to recycling. Cutting off the consumption end of things, with some pretty serious economic consequences given the last 75 years of being a consumer dominated economy. Producing things is too much work compared to stocking shelves with cheap junk and blasting their brains with marketing to buy it.

        • by jonadab ( 583620 )
          You can turn a profit recycling metals and glass, as long as you refuse to take paper and plastic.

          I'm not saying there aren't other things you could do that would make you even MORE money; there are. But that's true of a lot of things that people do for a living anyway.
      • by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Sunday December 04, 2022 @08:23PM (#63102740) Journal

        The city should drop them, find new companies to recycle and include as part of the contract a requirement to disclose where the recyclables are going.

        They aren't going to find companies that actually recycle un-separated trash at a reasonable cost. Anywhere.

        • You know, screw all these robots that play chess and patrol parking lots. What we really need are robots that can reliably separate out recylables from trash, and do it by type of material.

          • by jonadab ( 583620 )
            > What we really need are robots that can reliably separate out
            > recylables from trash, and do it by type of material.

            This exists, and is what recycling companies already do.

            The first thing you do is break/shred the trash into reasonably-sized pieces. This is easy to do automatically and makes the remaining steps easier.

            Next, separate out the iron and most of the steel, using electromagnets. This is easy and profitable. You get a tiny percentage of other metals in the resulting steel (either becaus
      • by jonadab ( 583620 )
        > The city should drop them, find new companies to recycle and include as part of
        > the contract a requirement to disclose where the recyclables are going.

        I can tell you what's happening:

        The metals and glass are separated out by various (mostly automatic) means and recycled, because they're worth money. That's the good news.

        The plastics are shipped to the third world, where somebody who makes less than a dollar a day picks through them looking for the 1% of plastics that are actually legitimately recy
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Recycling, done properly, is VERY expensive, and that makes the outcome is inevitable. No matter how much everyone CLAIMS to be serious about recycling, no one has the guts to demand that we actually do it properly.

      Any politician who comes out in favor of a REAL recycling plan, and all the associated expense, will quickly find themself voted out of office and replaced by a politician backed by the big polluters.

      And so, everyone always takes the safe, cheap, easy way out. Send all your trash to some
  • by jacks smirking reven ( 909048 ) on Sunday December 04, 2022 @04:02PM (#63102114)

    Probably time to give up on the hope of recycling plastic and really that's what these recycling stories center around since metal will always be valued to recycle. Paper and glass also are much easier to recycle and don't carry the same environmental risks.

    Especially seems like the shady efforts to recycle plastic have led to more of it contaminating the environment than if we just properly landfilled it in the first place.

    More effective is just regulate packaging and single use to move industries to just use less plastic for things that could be replaced with paper and metals.

    • Haven't some EU countries had success burning their plastics and generating some electricity? Better than a landfill.
      • Some do for sure, I know that has it's other issues to manage but it has potential.

          Landfills also generate electricity as the decomposition generates methane that is burned for energy.

        Either way both are a controllable end of the waste chain instead of this mystery box scenario that recycling is creating.

        • by drnb ( 2434720 )

          Some do for sure, I know that has it's other issues to manage but it has potential.

          Landfills also generate electricity as the decomposition generates methane that is burned for energy.

          Either way both are a controllable end of the waste chain instead of this mystery box scenario that recycling is creating.

          Well the plastics in the landfill are not generating much of the methane. :-) Also, I think the places burning plastic are burning all sorts of trash. Including things that could decompose. So incineration may be a win for more than plastics.

      • Actually, I've had an increase in garbage disposal tax because the city now provides too little plastic to the disposal companies to run their burners without adding gas, and gas is expensive.

        Recycling is expensive if you don't burn the plastic. And the burning is generating heat that can be reused (if designed up front), so not a total loss.

    • by stikves ( 127823 )

      With some minor notes.

      "Hard" plastics are easy to collect. Requires a bit of effort to handle. But can be done.

      "Softer" ones, like store bags are harder to collect. Will routinely "fly off", and end up in random places, including the nature and oceans. As you said, they could easily be replaced. (I would guess, almost with certainty, the initial push for plastic bags were "for the nature", killing trees for paper after all).

      So, how is it going to be processed?
      Recycling does not work due to 40+ different ext

      • (I would guess, almost with certainty, the initial push for plastic bags were "for the nature", killing trees for paper after all).

        Yes, plastic bags were sold as environmentally friendly, you don't cut down trees and you use less water. Except the bags get loose (as you say) and you wind up with plastic bag forests.

    • There's a company in Australia that's getting some serious backing who claim to have the world's most advanced hydrothermal liquefaction technology. The company is called Licella, and basically, they turn plastic back into oil [licella.com].

      There's so many question marks, of course, and I have no idea whether it will ever scale enough. They've been working with Nestle and Dow, but that could just be a token investment on their part to greenwash their waste.

      Still, I hope they succeed. Nobody wants the inevitable micro

  • Why do they not know this information? It should have been in the contracts issued, but it would seem to have been "not wanted."

    • Because the city staffers say, "they're stuck".

      Which I take to mean that they know exactly what's going on but know that charging $33 extra will mean heads roll and pensions terminate.

      Virtue signaling is all well n good until there's a price to pay. Then it's mighty inconvenient and they're just stuck. Can't do a thing! Throw hands up and done. Golly!

      • by ls671 ( 1122017 )

        I use my recycling bin but I have no illusion with regards to what percentage is actually recycled. I just figure that it will make my trash easier to sort out.

        • Same here. The boxes n paper stuff tends to be bulky so nice big blue bin is a convenient way to not have to empty the kitchen trash every 5 seconds. I'd still have 2 cans but it fits better this way.

          When I lived in NYC years ago you could see the trash barges going to New Jersey every day to fill the dumps. Yech, some basic recycling will cut down on that sort of thing, too.

    • by jonadab ( 583620 )
      > Why do they not know this information?

      Politics. Since the eighties at least, if not longer, people haven't been allowed to admit that certain things aren't actually recyclable in practice, because the liberals will shout at you and make your life hell. That goes double for anyone working in politics or government. It's actually politically safer to say "we don't know for sure where it all goes" rather than "most of the plastic ultimately gets incinerated". This is *why* recycling companies ship stu
  • by gurps_npc ( 621217 ) on Sunday December 04, 2022 @04:15PM (#63102154) Homepage

    It is not that hard to put in rules like "Hey, you want to do business with us, you have to tell us X, you are not allowed to keep it as a business secret?

    And judges should simply tell everyone that a contract only gives monetary penalties, while judicial penalties are imprisonement until you break speak.

    There is no law that says a contract lets you not obey a judge's direct order to respond to a question.

    • by jonadab ( 583620 )
      > you are not allowed to keep it as a business secret

      That would be politically ruinous for the city officials, because then they would *officially* know that most of the plastic is getting incinerated, and that would be very bad, possibly career-ending. It's not politically acceptable to know the truth about plastic recycling (namely, that it's not actually practical). It goes against the inviolable sacrosanct doctrine of the political left. You *have* to pretend that it's being recycled.

      And you can o
  • Also how many degrees of separation the company is from the majority of the actual physical recycling. Nobody would knowingly sign up for a company that does nothing but transport your garbage into a vast chain of other transport companies that ends in an open-air dump in China. They would reward a company that can advertise the majority of its waste being fully processed within 100 miles of collection.
  • by drnb ( 2434720 ) on Sunday December 04, 2022 @04:23PM (#63102186)

    "If you keep stuff out of landfill but just dump it in Laos, that's not achieving a good goal," said Martin Bourque of the Ecology Center in Berkeley, California, a group that advised Palo Alto in its pursuit of transparency. "That's not what the whole idea was of recycling."

    Those are different values than the Biden Administration. It seems the Administration considers it a great win when you can outsource the pollution and superficially improve the domestic statistics. Look at oil production. It's good to shift production from the US to Venezuela and Saudi Arabia. It makes the US stats look better. It doesn't matter that domestic consumption is the same. Greenwashing for the political win.

    • It doesn't matter that domestic consumption is the same.

      Except for the extra fuel burned to ship it here instead of using what's here. (And the CO2 from that goes into the same atmosphere, so it's a substantial lose for those who were trying to reverse global warming by shutting down US oil production.)

      And then there's the ocean and other pollution from oil processing under some other countries' more lax standards (or enforcement).

    • Can't you wait til you find an article directly related to Biden's energy policy to take shots at him? You analogy is quite a stretch.

      • by drnb ( 2434720 )

        Can't you wait til you find an article directly related to Biden's energy policy to take shots at him? You analogy is quite a stretch.

        Actually it's not. Its contrasting those attempting to actually made a difference with those trying to manufacture the perception of making a difference while in reality they are just moving nastiness out of sight.

        The comment is really about Bourque, someone doing the right thing. Biden is just a well known example to contrast against.

  • Seems simple to me. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Fly Swatter ( 30498 ) on Sunday December 04, 2022 @04:31PM (#63102218) Homepage
    If a recycler won't tell you where it goes, they no longer get your business. I thought California was tough about this.
    • If a recycler won't tell you where it goes, they no longer get your business. I thought California was tough about this.

      No you don't understand. It's no longer in your hands and now you get to claim the moral high ground. "We recycled responsibly, we paid someone to do a thing!" *takes breath* "OMG China is so polluting there's plastic going in the oceans, how dare they!"

    • If a recycler won't tell you where it goes, they no longer get your business.

      And if *NO* recycling company will tell you exactly what they do with the trash they handle .... then what?

      • Pay all the homeless to recycle it. Solve two problems at once.
        • They might not want to. Is trash collection handled by private companies? Trusting the free market to perform public service is generally not a great idea, as private companies do not care about public interest and will degrade service quality in order to be more competitive and earn public contracts. Doesn't the city have its own trash collection and management department? Where I live it does and it's great.

          • "trash collection" and "recycling things once collected" are two different things and it is entirely possible that a city might have its own trash collection department that trucks its garbage and recyclables to different third party private companies. For example several independent towns might contract to send all their trash to a single privately run landfill destination that isn't in any of those towns. And even in areas where city-run trash collection exists, private collection services still exist to
  • by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Sunday December 04, 2022 @04:36PM (#63102226)

    They need a *giant* blue bin -- I know 100% of my recycling goes into my regular-sized one. :-)

  • by hdyoung ( 5182939 ) on Sunday December 04, 2022 @05:16PM (#63102328)
    Only the metal get reliably recycled because it's really valuable. The rest of it mostly gets landfilled. Glass just isn't all that valuable, the paper is too contaminated, and there are simply too many types of plastic. Recycling is a great idea. It truly is. But the waste stream is too varied. Only the most orderly, compliant societies can manage high recycling rates. I think that Japan and Germany are pretty good at it?

    But a lot of places have chaotic societies and failed governments. Expecting recycling beyond metal is just a pipe dream. And the US? Don't make me laugh. I'm a proud, patriotic US citizen. I love my country. And I support second amendment rights. But let's face some cold hard facts about ourselves. You can't even convince the average American to take a deep breath and think for a second BEFORE he shoots his assault rifle at an elementary school. You think we're gonna be able to teach Jim Bob to separate out the polyethylene terepthalate from the polystyrene? Not in a million years.

    downmod in 3....2....
    • Most places from Europe to California will collect separated plastics but even those are too contaminated. Just 1 bottle cap in a bag of recycled plastic bottles is enough contamination to make the entire thing go to the landfill. So the separation is a feel-good measure at best, in most cases it contributes to the problem as now you need 2 trucks (or more expensive trucks that carry less) and 2 bins and 2 streams until it gets to someplace where itâ(TM)s all just combined again.

      Plastics, being hydroca

    • Only the metal get reliably recycled because it's really valuable. The rest of it mostly gets landfilled.

      Don't use your own shitty government to label a practice used successfully around the world. Metal may be valuable but that doesn't stop countries such as the Netherlands recycling close to 90% of paper and glass (and yes traceably).
      Plastic is a bit more difficult, but even then the answer is not landfill, but rather heat reclamation (reads: incineration) but the percentage of circular plastic is rising every day in countries that actually give a shit.

      • I'm curious to see a link. A quick search on Netherlands got me this, which state that all waste streams average out to 80%

        https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/socie... [www.cbs.nl]

        Except that includes ALL WASTE, including construction and demolition waste. That probably means that they're including recycled concrete, which weighs a TON and is actually really advantageous to reuse. That's great, but I bet that swamps out residential recycling, which is probably a LOT lower.
    • A simple solution is to add a $.15 tax on each bottle, fully refundable at a recycling center. If that isn't enough, keep raising the price until the problem becomes self-correcting. The product ultimately doesn't cost any more than it originally did, but not recycling gets to be expensive.

      The only problem is if it becomes economical to import garbage to recycle. Mexican cartels smuggling empty bottles across the border and Chinese fishing boats harvesting the Pacific garbage patch in order to get that b
      • A simple solution is to add a $.15 tax on each bottle, fully refundable at a recycling center.

        There are plenty of us on here old enough to remember when they did that for glass bottles in the U.S. You'd get charged a nickel or so as a deposit for your bottle, and you'd save them and take them back to the grocery store on your next visit and get your deposit back.

        Part of the problem is that nowadays, a lot of the stuff that was packaged in glass, paper, or metal is now packaged in plastic, so there are a hu

  • "If you keep stuff out of landfill but just dump it in Laos, that's not achieving a good goal,"

    If the recycling isn't really being done, it isn't just a wash. It's a massive loss: Millions of manhours sorting waste into black, green, and blue (or whatever) trashcans/dumpsters. Manufacturing and distributing extra cans and dumpsters multiplying the number at every waste-generation site. Three (for instance) trucks running each route instead of one. (I could go on.)

  • This is a really poor headline given that there is a decently large city in California called California City. Also silly considering just saying Palo Alto would be shorter.
  • The aluminum can is the clearly superior beverage vessel and there are those aluminium capped bottles as well if you need a lid.

    Who cares if i can't see it? Are you lying to me about whats inside. Bonus is that this will drive faster development of transparent aluminum.

    • Aluminum cans are coated internally with a protective resin to stop acidic drinks from eating the can. The formulations of those resins have changed over time because they've been found to leach nasty things into the beverage. It's far from settled that the current formulations are 100% safe. The superior drink packaging is glass because it's _more stable_ than either plastics, or aluminum cans that just happen to require an inner plastic layer.
      • Glass is better in some respects, but it's also heavy (higher shipping costs), takes up more room, and has more consequences for broken containers (i.e. shards of glass that can cause injury). It also has to be sorted by color for recycling.

        • by larwe ( 858929 )
          Totally true, the only thing I'll rebut there is that sorting glass by color is about 5 trillion times easier and more effective than sorting plastics by recycling number - not to mention, that 100% of the glass you sort can be recycled, vs. most of the plastics having no final destination other than landfill or "waste to energy" (= burning).
  • by BrendaEM ( 871664 ) on Sunday December 04, 2022 @08:56PM (#63102826) Homepage
    We don't need an unboxing experience, we need something sustainable.
  • by tiqui ( 1024021 ) on Monday December 05, 2022 @12:34AM (#63103154)

    There is no way they can possibly have been HONESTLY ignorant of this stuff.

    The politicians wrote, awarded, and were responsible for enforcing, the contracts with the garbage collectors. Those contracts either specified where the stuff went, or they did not. If the contracts did not, then the politicians were deliberately sloppy and did not WANT to know where the trash went. If the contracts specified where the stuff went, and it actually went somewhere else, then the politicians were lazy and CHOSE not to monitor whether the contracts were being honored, and having not monitored, were also not enforcing (if they chose this option, there was a REASON they chose it). You can GUARANTEE that, somewhere here, it will be discovered that politicians were giving the waste disposal contracts to political supporters, or relatives, or companies offering kick-backs, etc. There's a REASON they're now "shocked to discover gambling in the casino" (see: Casablanca) and it's almost certainly blood or money.

  • The US "recycles" 5-6% of plastics, and a large percentage of this is "recycled" by shipping it out. That's compared to tens of percents in the EU.

    US people, being a bunch of ego maniacs, then say something like "Palo Alto can't transform the global recycling system alone", where by "global" they mean the US, and where they discount, or, more likely, aren't even aware of, any good examples elsewhere.

  • Recycling is in great part a fraud. All of it. Cardboard is sometimes pasteboard, they say no it isn't recyclable. Most paper packaging ditto. Glass? Not worth it often. My municipality has been shortening the list for the past few years, since recycling isn't about saving the planet or reducing landfill volume, but it's about practical expenses offset by generated revenue.

    And most recycled material isn't worth it. Just ain't.

  • This issue has been well known for a lot longer than four years... It surfaced at least as early as the '70s and has been an ongoing battle for decades. The reason that these "recyclers" are continuously cagey about exactly where "recyclables" are going is that the vast majority of the plastic products we use on a daily basis are not actually recyclable. In order for the incredibly profitable ventures in charge of this entire mess to be able to perpetuate the myth that they're still somehow doing the right

  • " If made permanent, staff said, the change could increase the average citizen's recycling bill by about $33 a year. "

    Bwahahaha! ah, that's a good one. I would image $33\year with a margin of error of 1000%

  • Recycle a Global GPS tracker and find out where it is actually going. It could be dumped in the ocean and collecting in the Pacific Garbage Patch. If the GPS tracker floats you will have your answer. If it can get a signal out from under the pile of rubbish before it is buried or incinerated you will know that too. If things are actually recycled it may just wind up in someones home that is curious if it has any value. Sadly, if its buried under a landfill without being exposed in the process you might just

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