Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
News

'Germany's Half-a-Trillion Dollar Energy Bazooka May Not Be Enough' (reuters.com) 322

schwit1 writes: Germany is bleeding cash to keep the lights on. Almost half a trillion dollars, and counting, since the Ukraine war jolted it into an energy crisis nine months ago. And it may not be enough. "How severe this crisis will be and how long it will last greatly depends on how the energy crisis will develop," said Michael Groemling at the German Economic Institute (IW). "The national economy as a whole is facing a huge loss of wealth."

The money set aside stands at up to 440 billion euros ($465 billion), according to the calculations, which provide the first combined tally of all of Germany's drives aimed at avoiding running out of power and securing new sources of energy. That equates to about 1.5 billion euros a day since Russia invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24. Or around 12% of national economic output. Or about 5,400 euros for each person in Germany. Germany wants renewables to account for at least 80% of electricity production by 2030, up from 42% in 2021. At recent rates of expansion, though, that remains a remote goal.

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

'Germany's Half-a-Trillion Dollar Energy Bazooka May Not Be Enough'

Comments Filter:
  • Chickens come home (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 16, 2022 @09:43AM (#63135114)

    "Hey, let's turn off all these nuclear plants and buy all our gas from Russa. What could go wrong?"

    • by JaredOfEuropa ( 526365 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @09:45AM (#63135120) Journal
      They had plenty of warning from energy experts, decades ago.
      • by saloomy ( 2817221 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:47AM (#63135316)
        They had plenty of warning from Trump 4 years ago. They snickered at him.
        • by skam240 ( 789197 )

          To be fair Trump's presentation leaves an epic shit ton to be desired.

          • by tgeek ( 941867 )

            To be fair Trump's presentation leaves an epic shit ton to be desired.

            Which is bigger: an epic shit ton or a metric shit ton? (Personally, I prefer imperial shit tons - but I'm an old geezer)

    • by e3m4n ( 947977 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:04AM (#63135168)
      they just put their priorities out of order. The number one priority is energy independence. Its a colossal national security component. Once you have that, then you can begin to phase out less desirable sources, so long as you never violate energy independence. The last thing the german people need is to get duped into condoning another genocide simply because another country is holding their energy hostage. Im all for expanding all forms of clean energy, esp ones that are distributed and allow for redundancy. But to cut off other sources prematurely at the expense of energy independence can have dire consequences... like "stop supporting ukraine or i cut off your gas" or "pay 3x the previous rate to support our invasion and annihilation of our neighbors". It puts them in a weak posture.
      • And what power plants would that be aside of coal? Germany has barely any oil and as far as I know no uranium at all.

        • And what power plants would that be aside of coal?

          Wind. Especially offshore in the North Sea.

          • If wind was actually blowing, Germany wouldn't have an electricity problem as they already have more installed capacity than the typical consumption. Instead it's now at... 2% capacity factor [imgur.com]

            • by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

              So thwy should use solar, duh! Solar and wind complement each other after all! /sarcasm

              Not every country can be energy autark. But for crying out loud at least diversify your sources...

              Everyone acts like your friend in Europe until their asses are sat on that hot stove and suddenly mask shipments get diverted at ports.

              Cooperation is great. Trust growing from cooperation is great. But being utterly dependent on somebody else WILL put you in deep doodoo sooner or later even with absolutely no malice involved.

          • by guruevi ( 827432 )

            Germany is relatively landlocked with the area that connect to the North Sea, there are islands that would prevent such massive infrastructure and the other side in the Baltic Sea where such operations could be easily affected by Russia (as they already showed willingness to do with Nordstream 2)

            • by ghoul ( 157158 )
              How much Koolaid do you have to drink to believe the Russians would blow up their own pipeline when they can simply switch off the valve? It was obviously a western terrorist act but then again we dont call terrorism when its done by Western terrorists.
        • Coal is not a bad energy source - they just have to fit proper water scrubbers in the smoke stacks.
        • by e3m4n ( 947977 )
          mosts peeple do not even realize that the united states is technically a collection of 50 independent countries... referred to a sovereign states. But the umbrella of the federal government makes things like currency, trade, national defense, transportation, energy, water, and conflict resolution between states streamlined. "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare,
          • by Joey Vegetables ( 686525 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @11:19AM (#63135438) Journal

            That was in fact the original design, but people have been conditioned today to believe that the federal government is supreme and that the states are merely subservient divisions thereof. Public "education" working exactly as designed.

            The EU member states should really try to learn from this experience, lest the same thing happen to them.

          • by t0qer ( 230538 )

            >mosts peeple do not even realize that the united states is technically a collection of 50 independent countries... referred to a sovereign states. But the umbrella of the federal government

            Nah I'd say we're more like an HOA at a gated community. We collect HOA fees (taxes) and dole them back out to states based on who broke the least number of rules. A large portion of said taxes go towards maintaining the private driveways and landscaping (Interstate highways, parks) and Barney our security guard (The

      • Whats more important? That children in the Donbass study from Ukrainian language textbooks as Zelensky wants or we dont destroy the earth with global warming?
        Russian Gas was helping transition Europe to renewables and now we are throwing it all away so Zelensky can force local governments in the Donbass to use Ukrainian language textbooks instead of Russian textbooks as they have been using for over 200 years. Most of the Donbass was captured from the Ottomans and settled with settlers from Russia. It wa
    • by Inglix the Mad ( 576601 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:07AM (#63135176)
      Yeah, I'm not overly fond of nuclear power in some ways... the waste is extremely difficult to deal with putting it politely... but insofar as I know Germany had reliable reactor designs and they weren't built in areas susceptible to calamitous natural disasters. Nuclear power, while not ideal, could have kept the lights on, and the heat going, starving an aggressor nation of money.

      No civilization ever uses less power overall unless it is in decline. ALWAYS have surplus power, and keep planning for more power to be added. Use multiple sources, retire some only after ensuring you have adequate replacements on-line and tested... with extra in reserve.

      Heaven knows we pay enough for power... the energy companies and governments could make sure it's not in short supply.
      • Waste is a non-issue. Just put it in a warehouse on-site.

        Electricity usage in most of Europe stabilized or even went down over the past few decades due to big improvements in efficiencies. But obviously we still need a lot and will need more as transportation is getting electrified.

        So about that 440B number. Guess how many new plant you could build for that? Many. Even the ridiculously overpriced OL3 unit in Finland only cost ~10B and makes 1.6GW. Assuming nobody would learn anything from building dozens of

    • Putin spending millions and millions of dollars to fund supposedly "Green" groups that really just advocate against the middle and working class sure did pay off.

    • by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:39AM (#63135292)

      Wind and solar could go wrong. Since the goal is "renewables" which means "intermittents", which means "CCGTs burning gas to replace them when it's not windy nor sunny".

      The story brags about "42% of electricity generated from renewables". What it omits is that they now have well over 200% of installed nominal capacity in renewables, which could barely produce 42% on paper because Germany is neither very windy nor very sunny. And that much of that number is "surplus Germany couldn't use, because it was windy everywhere, so it had to be exported". And then it wasn't windy, and there would have been no power if not for CCGTs. It would have been blackouts.

      And as long as policy is "more intermittents", the problem is only going to get much, much worse, because damage intermittents do to stability of national grid as a whole is cumulative. The more you have, the less stability you have, even if you do have access to cheap natgas to spin those turbines. And when you don't have access to reasonably priced gas, you're just fucked.

    • by znrt ( 2424692 )

      actually, that decade long strategy was working pretty well until scholz reversed it and started pandering to all the nato bullshit, and it would have worked even better with nordstream-2. which was the whole point, of course, with the added bonus of a massive transfer of public treasure to private hands, business as usual. worry not, the elites will stay warm and cozy.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 16, 2022 @09:47AM (#63135130)

    I remember their smug laughs as Trump warned them of precisely this. I feel bad for the german people that their leaders are so blindingly incompetent as to dismiss the warning because they didn't like the source.

    Maybe they'll choose better leaders in the future.

    • by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:00AM (#63135160) Journal

      I remember their smug laughs as Trump warned them of precisely this.

      Everyone warned them of this.

      I feel bad for the german people that their leaders are so blindingly incompetent as to dismiss the warning because they didn't like the source.

      They had a booming economy from the cheap Russian energy, so I don't feel too bad for them. I feel worse for the Ukrainians, due to Germany funding the Russian war machine in exchange for cheap energy.

      • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:27AM (#63135232)
        Russia's war machine wasn't funded by anything. It's currently made up of 80 year old tech getting it's ass kicked by the 30 year old tech we're giving Ukraine. Their oligarchs took the money for themselves.

        What Germany was trying to do was make Russia dependent on foreign trade so that they could cut them off from the global economy and force Putin to back down.

        With a sane person that would work. But Putin's dying and that's made him crazy. This is his last great hurrah for Mother Russia. His legacy. Or it was suppose to be. Basically an end of life crisis only instead of a Ferrari it's hundreds of thousands dead and displaced by a dictator.

        Which sadly is what happens with most dictators. You give somebody that much power and you are *fucked* when their brains go in old age. I'm just hoping my country doesn't make the same mistake with Trump or Ron DeSantis.

        • What Germany was trying to do was make Russia dependent on foreign trade so that they could cut them off from the global economy and force Putin to back down.

          Yeah but instead they got to the position where he could cut them off and gave a ton of money a bunch of which did go towards his rather poorly equipped military. Trouble is even with the oligarchs and corruption, it's still big enough to cause a lot of misery.

          • Only because they didn't think Putin was that crazy. The mistake they made was thinking that Putin was still rational. What they didn't realize is he's dying and he's losing his marbles as he dies.

            Normally he would be worried about the massive economic damage to his country but he's not planning on living long enough to care. Either that or he's completely lost the plot Howard Hughes/ Spruce Goose style.

            What I'm saying is Germany was wrong but only because they thought they were dealing with the rat
            • > The mistake they made was thinking that Putin was still rational. What they didn't realize is he's dying and he's losing his marbles as he dies.

              What sources? He seems to be dying of numerous diseases but can't find any reliable sources, the most credible seem to say the contrary:

              During this summer when the rumours seemed to peak:
              https://www.politico.com/news/... [politico.com]

              And in early December, a humorous piece:
              https://www.forbes.com/sites/b... [forbes.com]

        • by guruevi ( 827432 )

          Well, the Germans are pretty dumb for thinking that in a global economy, Germany, one of the smaller countries on earth could cut them off, when Russia borders a few of the largest countries and also some of the most impactful economies on earth (China, Japan, Finland , Norway, Ukraine) and through its various ally/puppet border states also has access to the Middle East, Africa and the rest of Asia.

          Germans, their delusions of grandeur has cost them already 2 World Wars and soon a third.

          Everybody dies, Putin

      • by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:29AM (#63135242)

        They had a booming economy from the cheap Russian energy

        They could've had an even cheaper source of energy: Nukes that were already built and running with the sunk costs already spent.

        Buying gas from Russia wasn't a mistake. Depending on Russia because they shut down all the alternatives was the mistake.

      • Actually, energy prices, gas and electric, industrial and consumer, in Germany always have been in or around the top five in Europe. Germany does not have, and for a long time has not had, cheap energy.

        Almost everyone was buying plenty of Russian resources, not just the ones you happen to dislike. Germany is merely one of the players in this.

      • Yes, but you didn't get smug dismissal and patronizing laughter at Mr Obama, did you?

        I wonder why that is? Perhaps 'enlightened' European diplomats confused the messenger with the message? How...superficial and pedestrian.

    • It was generally believed Trump said this to promote American LNG. Because America first. He didn't give a shit about Germany. Not that the Germans were right in becoming so dependent on Russian gas, but I wouldn't say that taking Trump seriously is a more stable solution.
      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Looking at how things worked out, I'd say that choosing Putin over Trump was a dumb decision. The German people are certainly paying for their TDS.
      • by jwhyche ( 6192 )

        It was generally believed Trump said this to promote American LNG. Because America first. He didn't give a shit about Germany. Not that the Germans were right in becoming so dependent on Russian gas, but I wouldn't say that taking Trump seriously is a more stable solution.

        I would say that taking Trump seriously would have been a far more stable solution. Despite what Trumps motivations could have truly been. If his statement was to be solely to support American LNG, and the Germans heeded it, they wouldn't be freezing over there now. Despite what you feel about America, we usually have a habit of supporting our Allies and generally do not start wars of conquest.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Opportunist ( 166417 )

      Well, who could have foreseen that the village idiot was actually right once with one of his warnings?

      • Well, who could have foreseen that the village idiot was actually right once with one of his warnings?

        Anyone could have foreseen it.

        Warnings should be judged on their merits, not on who is doing the warning.

        • by Ichijo ( 607641 )

          Warnings should be judged on their merits, not on who is doing the warning.

          This 100%, because even a stopped clock is right twice a day!

      • by sfcat ( 872532 )

        Well, who could have foreseen that the village idiot was actually right once with one of his warnings?

        It wasn't just Trump, every US president for the last several decades issued the same warnings to Germany and the EU. As well as energy experts, the engineers who work on their own grid, etc.

  • by ickleberry ( 864871 ) <web@pineapple.vg> on Friday December 16, 2022 @09:54AM (#63135146) Homepage
    For moving to renewable energy in Europe long before the war started. Everyone of course knew their dirty secret that they were becoming more and more reliant on Putin gas when the wind wasn't blowing but people prefered to focus on the positive.

    Now it looks like it was all part of a carefully crafted plan by China and Putin to get rid of Germany's manufacturing industry
    • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:05AM (#63135174)

      Now it looks like it was all part of a carefully crafted plan by China and Putin to get rid of Germany's manufacturing industry

      The plan was crafted by the west. Buy assets from China / Russia in an effort to spread democracy based on the theory that wealth stabilises nations. The theory was wrong.

      Hindsight is an amazing thing. People are oh so clever when commenting about the past, but not so much when planning for the future. Germany didn't have a "dirty secret". It had a policy widely supported and in line with much of the rest of the western world. And while this article may be about Germany's economy specifically it's asinine to pretend that this is a Germany problem.

      Wars have massive economic and social affects including on countries who do business with and aren't directly in conflict with the countries at war. Putin has set the entire world back decades, whether that be Germany's economy struggling without gas, grain and cooking oil shortages in the 3rd world even going so far as to affect Australia, or by exposing silent allegiances in nations increasing geopolitical tensions between 3rd parties such as Iran and USA as each country has conciously backed a different party in the war.

       

      • by fazig ( 2909523 )
        I can agree that the delusion started in the West. But the Kremlin certainly did its own part to further the development in its favour.
        A consistent propaganda campaign that served to distract from everything bad the Kremlin does by immediately pointing fingers at other issues around the planet, leading stupid people to believe that the real actual true problems and evils come from the nebulous "West", suppressed a lot of valid criticism as Russophobia.

        Even today I see the propaganda efforts play out in m
      • by mobby_6kl ( 668092 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @11:06AM (#63135388)

        Hindsight is an amazing thing. People are oh so clever when commenting about the past, but not so much when planning for the future. Germany didn't have a "dirty secret". It had a policy widely supported and in line with much of the rest of the western world. And while this article may be about Germany's economy specifically it's asinine to pretend that this is a Germany problem.

        No hindsight required. Russia invaded Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014 and everyone just found it more convenient to pretend they didn't see anything.

      • It's hindsight when everybody can look back in history and say, "well golly, we really blew that one! if only we'd been able to see X, then we'd have known what we were about to do was wrong..."

        It's not really the same thing, however, when there were people back then pointing out how foolish the plan was, and they were routinely denounced as stupid, or narrow-minded, or "war mongers", and told they were not "seeing the big picture" no matter what arguments they made and what evidence they produced.

        In cases

    • by Pinky's Brain ( 1158667 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:20AM (#63135216)

      Wind/solar doesn't make them more dependent on gas, all that did was make their electricity prices sky-high. Shuttering Nuclear and Coal makes them more dependent on gas, that's orthogonal.

      Spinning up some gas turbines to cover the transition from wind to coal power, when coal power is still present, is a drop in the bucket compared to industry and heating use of gas.

      • by sfcat ( 872532 )

        Wind/solar doesn't make them more dependent on gas, all that did was make their electricity prices sky-high. Shuttering Nuclear and Coal makes them more dependent on gas, that's orthogonal.

        Spinning up some gas turbines to cover the transition from wind to coal power, when coal power is still present, is a drop in the bucket compared to industry and heating use of gas.

        Those gas turbines provided 20% of Germany's total power. The renewables that cost $500B Euros, those provided 4%. When you ask a German why they shuttered their nuclear plants and why not build more, they say it is because of cost. So no, I don't think you can just hand wave away the impact of renewables on Germany's energy policies. They took the capital that should have been used for nuclear and wasted it on renewables. That's the impact and it isn't orthogonal to them shuttering their nuclear plant

  • by Train0987 ( 1059246 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @09:56AM (#63135148)

    What happened to these Slashdot classics?

    October, 2015: "Wind Power Now Cheapest Energy In UK and Germany; No Subsidies Needed"
    https://hardware.slashdot.org/... [slashdot.org]

    May, 2016: "Germany Had So Much Renewable Energy That It Had To Pay People To Use Electricity"
    https://hardware.slashdot.org/... [slashdot.org]

    May, 2017: "Germany Sets New National Record With 85 Percent of Its Electricity Sourced From Renewables"
    https://hardware.slashdot.org/... [slashdot.org]

    March, 2021: "Wind Replaces Coal As Main Source of Power In Germany"
    https://hardware.slashdot.org/... [slashdot.org]

    There's a bunch more from 2022 but they seem a bit more, ummm, panicky.

    • by quantaman ( 517394 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:09AM (#63135182)

      What happened to these Slashdot classics?

      October, 2015: "Wind Power Now Cheapest Energy In UK and Germany; No Subsidies Needed"
      https://hardware.slashdot.org/... [slashdot.org]

      May, 2016: "Germany Had So Much Renewable Energy That It Had To Pay People To Use Electricity"
      https://hardware.slashdot.org/... [slashdot.org]

      May, 2017: "Germany Sets New National Record With 85 Percent of Its Electricity Sourced From Renewables"
      https://hardware.slashdot.org/... [slashdot.org]

      March, 2021: "Wind Replaces Coal As Main Source of Power In Germany"
      https://hardware.slashdot.org/... [slashdot.org]

      There's a bunch more from 2022 but they seem a bit more, ummm, panicky.

      FTA:
      Despite these efforts, there is little certainty over how the country can replace Russia; Germany imported around 58 billion cubic metres (bcm) of gas from the country last year, according to data from Eurostat and German industry association BDEW, representing about 17% of its total energy consumption.

      I don't think many countries can lose 17% of their energy supply without getting panicky.

      • by synth7 ( 311220 )

        Even if Germany replaces the lost grid power with a different source, the need for petrochemical resource influx is still enormous based upon the structure of Germany's heavy industry and manufacturing ecosystem. The oil and natural gas is an input into manufacturing plants that produce plastics and chemicals that are feed-stock for more advanced products. The lack of power is only a part of the issue why the German industrial machine is well and truly screwed.

    • Fortunately for the block heads there are several European countries that are exporting electricity.
    • by Meneth ( 872868 )
      Germany doesn't have an electricity problem. They have a gas problem, because they burn gas directly, for heating, cooking and other purposes. These gas-burning devices cannot quickly be replaced by electricity equivalents.
      • by jwhyche ( 6192 )

        These gas-burning devices cannot quickly be replaced by electricity equivalents.

        Yeah, they can. I just left an apartment that my primary source of heat was a gas fireplace. I don't have a fireplace in my new apartment. I like fireplaces. I went down to home depot and bought an electric fireplace. It sits in the corner looking like a tacky electric fireplace but keeps my office warm. Total time, including trip to soul sucking bit box store, about 30 minutes.

        I'm not saying that all Germany needs to do is pop down to the local walmart and buy electric heaters and all thier proble

        • by sfcat ( 872532 )

          I went down to home depot and bought an electric fireplace.

          That electric fireplace probably uses 9x the energy as your old gas powered one. So no, it definitely isn't a solution. And it isn't simple as you suggest. That "solution" would likely massively increase (3x) the CO2 emissions that heating your apartment requires.

      • Germany doesn't have an electricity problem.

        Look at this map https://communitiesforfuture.o... [communitiesforfuture.org] .Germany is full coal&gas for electricity, so it is a total failure. The Green's country is one of the biggest co2 emitter, lol.

    • Those are all correct. I think you're trying to imply something that isn't the case. Germany very much is transitioning the renewals on the back of wind power and solar. That process is a bit slower than it probably should have been. Hindsight is 20/20.

      Germany's mistake as I mentioned elsewhere was assuming Putin was a rational actor. What they didn't realize is that he's dying and has gone off the plot as a result. The war in Ukraine is doing a massive damage to Russia both economically and militarily.
    • Maybe they printed them out and are burning them for heat?

  • by WankerWeasel ( 875277 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:00AM (#63135162)

    Wait, I thought high energy prices were Biden's fault? That's what the sticker at the gas pump told me.

    • Wait, I thought high energy prices were Biden's fault? That's what the sticker at the gas pump told me.

      Biden doesn't determine German energy policy. You can still blame him here.

    • by nagora ( 177841 )

      Wait, I thought high energy prices were Biden's fault? That's what the sticker at the gas pump told me.

      America doesn't have high energy prices.

    • by JBMcB ( 73720 )

      That's dumb. It's Biden AND Trump's fault for having the fed double the money supply when supply chains were constrained. When inflation is creeping up you don't announce trillions of dollars of deficit spending.

  • They need to build around 30 GW of off shore wind power in 8 years, if private companies have to deal with greenies every step of the way it will never happen. Government needs to step up, have some balls and ram it all through. Start building, you don't have time for multi-year environmental impact assessment. Change the law, squash lawsuits, disobey the EU courts if they get in the way and just build it.

    The only way to meet the schedule, is Trumpian style governing ... or FDR style governing if you prefer

    • P3 Is likely faster and cheaper once you strip the legal hurdles. It isn't like you build a wind turbine with a lot of manual labor.

    • by necro81 ( 917438 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:49AM (#63135332) Journal

      The only way to meet the schedule, is Trumpian style governing

      Trumpian style government fashioned itself as imperious: I declare and it's done. In practice, the man and his bootlicking enablers were so incompetent that very little of substance actually got done. About 40% of the time something was declared and then never actually followed through. Another 40% of the time it was declared and immediately shot down by the courts. About 10% of the time something was declared, and almost immediately taken back. The other 10% actually happened.

      In specific terms of energy policy: just how much executive action during the Trump administration actually took place that made a material difference? And how significant were any of those actions to the real things that drive energy: incentives and market forces.

  • Most of Europe (Score:4, Interesting)

    by kubajz ( 964091 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:14AM (#63135196)
    Not sure why the article specifically mentions Germany, as many European countries are in the same situation. There are even ones with less renewables and more dependency on Russian gas. Some countries, however, were a bit smarter. For example, in 2014, when Putin annexed Crimea, Poland decided that Russian gas was a major strategic risk, and today they have a new pipeline from Norway and a huge liquid gas sea terminal in the north. But I cannot blame Germany, because I never thought Russia would actually start a war... I think not many people did.
    • Hmm, we were planning a Russian holiday, then Putin got another brain fart.
    • Re:Most of Europe (Score:4, Insightful)

      by fuzznutz ( 789413 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:33AM (#63135260)

      But I cannot blame Germany, because I never thought Russia would actually start a war... I think not many people did.

      It's not like they had a track record of doing exactly that. [cough] Chechnya, Afghanistan, Crimea[cough]

      • by sfcat ( 872532 )

        But I cannot blame Germany, because I never thought Russia would actually start a war... I think not many people did.

        It's not like they had a track record of doing exactly that. [cough] Chechnya, Afghanistan, Crimea[cough]

        You forgot Georgia and Armenia.

    • For example, in 2014, when Putin annexed Crimea, [...] But I cannot blame Germany, because I never thought Russia would actually start a war...

      I can blame them because Russia did start a war in 2014. It turned out differently that time because Ukraine wasn't in a position to fight back. They knew, everyone knew that Putin was happy to invade places. Somehow, Putin invading more of Ukraine yet again came as a total shocking surprise to Germany.

    • by guruevi ( 827432 )

      Really? They annexed Crimea in 2014 with minimal opposition from the West and nobody thought they wouldn't just keep going? It's like saying that giving up the protectorate over Hong Kong wouldn't have resulted in its immediate annexation.

  • by PPH ( 736903 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:17AM (#63135204)

    Panzerfaust, bitte.

  • enough to fund a couple of nuclear power plants.

  • Solar sucks in Germany it's north and it's rainy. Also not super windy there. So trying to build wind and solar is going to be very expensive because you have to build more for the same capacity, the US on the other hand has plenty of energy corridors for both solar and wind
    • by necro81 ( 917438 )

      Solar sucks in Germany it's north and it's rainy

      Not according to Fox News [youtube.com]!

      (Further context on this hilarious alternative fact [youtube.com].)

    • by sfcat ( 872532 )

      the US on the other hand has plenty of energy corridors for both solar and wind

      No, it doesn't. Doesn't really matter where you put renewables, they don't work. Unless you are a small volcanic island or have a small population with a lot of hydro, nuclear needs to be a huge chunk of your baseload generation. Renewables can't provide baseload. If California shuts down diablo canyon, PG&E won't be able to keep the power on in California and California is about as good as it gets for renewables. It has lots of sun, plenty of wind and lots of natural gas. Even there it doesn't wo

  • by Lavandera ( 7308312 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:48AM (#63135322)

    Germany and EU pays price for being blind since 2014...

    Russian invasion started 8 years ago.

    In these years instead of diversification of energy sources Germany was building Nord Stream II

    Oh how convenient EU lived at a price of Ukrainian, Georgian, Chechen, Byelorussian blood...

  • Oh please (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TheNameOfNick ( 7286618 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @10:49AM (#63135334)

    Scaring people with big numbers is a cheap trick. Germany's gross domestic product was €3.6 trillion in 2021. Most people aren't even throttling their heating. Yes, there's a lot of complaining, but there's always a lot of complaining. It's Germany.

    Fuck Putin, that little bitch. It doesn't matter what it costs. Russia will be much worse off when this is over.

  • Religion (Score:4, Insightful)

    by groobly ( 6155920 ) on Friday December 16, 2022 @11:50AM (#63135540)

    Germany's decisions were not made based on rational evaluation; they were made based on religious fanaticism. In fact, Germany has an entire very powerful political party based on religions fanaticism. No, not the *Christian* Democrats; it's the Green Party.

    It's interesting that as a population turns away from traditional religions such as Christianity or Judaism, the newly liberated still yearn for religion, and many have found it in Climatism or Wokism to guide their moral compass.

  • Absorbing East Germany meant absorbing hundreds of thousands of pro-Soviet Ossis and not just the infamous Stasi, or the Berlin Wall border guards who shot those trying to escape to freedom.

    Integrating subversives into the German economy ensured energydependence on Russia and wishful thinking obviously played a part. In consequence Germany became dependent on the existential enemy of European culture, Russia, whose NeoSoviet leader Vladimir Putin took full advantage.

    Serious aggressive EU investment in dive

"If value corrupts then absolute value corrupts absolutely."

Working...