EPA Tightens Rules on Pollution From Vans, Buses and Trucks (nytimes.com) 63
The Biden administration has strengthened limits on smog-forming pollution from buses, delivery vans, tractor-trailers and other trucks, the first time in more than 20 years that tailpipe standards have been tightened for heavy-duty vehicles. From a report: The new rule from the Environmental Protection Agency is designed to cut nitrogen oxide from the vehicles by 48 percent by 2045. Nitrogen dioxide is a poisonous gas that has been linked to cardiovascular problems and respiratory ailments like asthma. The rule will require manufacturers to cut the pollutant from their vehicles starting with the model year 2027. But the new rule is not as stringent as one proposed by the E.P.A. in March, which would have cut the pollutant as much as 60 percent by 2045. And the agency stopped short of âârequiring that truck manufacturers also cut greenhouse gas emissions associated with burning diesel fuel or convert their fleets to electric models.
I hope (Score:2, Offtopic)
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nothing like being in back of an 18 wheeler in a hot day for nice breathing.
Try being stuck behind a school bus. Do they even have emissions regulations on those things?
Re:I hope (Score:5, Insightful)
If you ever want to experience what it was like in the US before the Clean Air Act, go to a third world country and get stuck on a road behind a truck.
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Re: I hope (Score:1)
What about the "light truck loophole" (Score:5, Insightful)
The whole reason the market for fuel-efficient compacts, regular sedans, and minivans has been hollowed out is that the rules for pickup trucks are different. We seem to be able to push EVs, but can't fix this obvious loophole we created in the first place? Is the F-150 just too politically untouchable?
Re: What about the "light truck loophole" (Score:2, Insightful)
Work vehicle should require a CDL and not be allowed to park in a residential area. Boom solved.
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My dad is electrician, so actually has a need for a truck over a car or van, where would he park it? Are parents going to need to get a 3rd car? A second for my father so he can drive to and from his trucks parking spot?
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Pfft, electricians do not need a pick-up truck to do their job. Over here, both independent electricians and electricians working for larger companies are mostly seen in small vans similar to Renault Kango Express, Mercedes Citan, Peugeot Partner etc. And for those who need a larger vehicle with an open tray, vehicles like the Mercedes Sprinter are more popular than pick-up trucks, here, and do the job just as well.
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My brother is also an electrician, and he specifically prefers a van over a truck. Because he wants his stuff, both tools and supplies, protected from the weather and theft. Now, cargo van over passenger van, so could fall under the CDL thing.
But on-call for emergency maintenance is a thing, so isn't parking a company van with the stuff for that at the house. So banning CDL vehicles from residential areas would need a lot of exemptions. I mean, what if a house needs work?
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I fully understand that a van is often more useful than a pickup truck for a lot of people to do work while a pickup truck would be less useful.
Some pickup trucks even have a very short bed that even would make a wagon passenger car more useful, but in the US wagons aren't cool while a pickup with a useless bed is cool.
The VW Transporter, Ford Transit, Mercedes Sprinter and Peugeot Boxer are popular for electricians, plumbers and similar. In the event that they'll need to transport larger stuff then they'll
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Some pickup trucks even have a very short bed that even would make a wagon passenger car more useful, but in the US wagons aren't cool while a pickup with a useless bed is cool.
It's more that a US wagon would be counted as a car, for things like emissions and mileage, while a pickup with a mostly useless bed(you can still toss a few things back there), still counts as a pickup, IE commercial vehicle, for that stuff, and is thus much more lightly regulated. Ergo, the useless bed pickup actually ends up being cheaper than the station wagon.
Basically, the longest thing my brother MIGHT need to haul is 10 foot sections(3 meters) of pipe for conduit. That can be handled in the back o
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> They usually drive some kind of van with a lot of storage space. This seems way more useful to me since you can store tools and materials in them and lock the car.
How do they transport bails of hay, boilers, hardpack, or stacks of plywood?
Do the forklifts maneuver the crates into the van? Is fill all shoveled by hand?
Re: What about the "light truck loophole" (Score:4, Informative)
That said, those commercial vehicles require regular medical exams and have strict logbook requirements along with special licensing. That seems reasonable for other classes of commercial vehicles.
I expect some sharp person to ask what I would do if (when) I need to haul a couple of sheets of plywood or some other odd thing. I have a simple answer, I hook my utility trailer behind my car. To address the obvious, Yes, I do think a person should also need a license endorsement for a trailer.
Finally, to dig this even deeper, once a truck, always a truck. Most SUVs skirt safety and fuel consumption laws by being rated as trucks in the federal certification stage, this went so far down that the PT cruiser, a not-so-big car, was actually a truck. It used that status for the aforementioned reason, to skirt safety and consumption laws. This stunt is pulled for nearly every SUV on the market. The solution is simple, once a truck, always a truck, that presently means GVW taxes, and should have licensing, log, and driver training requirements.
Would that be a problem for me, as my car happens to be an FJ Cruiser? Yes it would. But that inconvenience would be a small price to pay for a generally safer driving environment. A trend toward safer vehicles that are appropriately sized for the use they see, not bigger ones, would be welcome as I ride my bicycle to work (why ride a bicycle? If you knew what kind of mileage that FJ gets you would understand, but really, I just prefer to ride my bicycle. . . or motorcycle, the motorcycle gets a lot of use too)
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Do you not have delivery services in the US? If I needed some sheets of wood I'd probably just get them delivered.
I wouldn't want to give up that freedom. I want to pick a car I like driving and that is selected for comfort and style. Don't want to get it messed up carrying cargo that scuffs up everything. Having to own a utility vehicle is a burden to me.
Plus it's usually cheaper overall for people who only occasionally buy stuff like that.
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Just add a trailer hitch on your car and rent a trailer for those occasions.
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The delivery services are pretty good. They are generally operated by well trained drivers who seem to love their job and take pride in how good they are with a crane. The builders merchants usually deliver with a grab lorry and that's pretty neat since they can drop tons of stuff over the pavement and directly into my tiny front garden. The crane head comes probably within 30 cm of my house and they can stack dumpy bags perfectly.
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Yeah, and you need it this afternoon and they can deliver it next Monday. Or, it's gonna be $$$$$ to deliver it 'cuz you're way the out in the boonies. I was 20 miles out of town at the last house. Try and get Pizza Hut to deliver there. Not happening. Yeah, Lowes and Home Depot can, but not necessarily when you want it. And it took me 3 weeks to get my 75" TV delivered and installed from Best Buy 20 miles out of town. People need to have their own vehicles unless they live across the street fr
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Ok but dude if you're eating so much pizza that you need it delivered by HIAB then your problem isn't really the lack of capacity in lesser vehicles.
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The "once a truck always a truck" might be something that's US specific.
Other countries might have different regulations and can allow for re-typing of vehicles, so if you chop the rear end off from a passenger car then it can be re-typed as a truck.
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Work vehicle should require a CDL
CDL doesn't break down as work/personal. And a Class A CDL can be pretty cheap to obtain (about $30 in my state). That'll cover most bro-trucks.
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> Work vehicle should require a CDL and not be allowed to park in a residential area. Boom solved.
Labor-class men with work trucks don't provide services to you. Boom, solved.
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Are we going to keep pretending that pickup trucks are "work vehicles" so they don't have to follow the same rules as cars and minivans?
As in emission rules? Do they not?
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The whole reason the market for fuel-efficient compacts, regular sedans, and minivans has been hollowed out is that the rules for pickup trucks are different. We seem to be able to push EVs, but can't fix this obvious loophole we created in the first place? Is the F-150 just too politically untouchable?
The rules hollowed out the pickup market by stopping production of "light" pickups in favor of heavier pickups with worse fuel economy that produce more pollution. I get to see this first hand with my 2002 Sonoma, which was replaced after 2003 with a heavier pickup, and now looks tiny compared to the smallest currently produced pickups.
Was it the intention of your rules to mandate heavier pickups with worse gas mileage that produce more pollution? Because that is what they did. Of course the rules also h
Re: China (Score:1)
China is trying to industrialize and even with those coal plants, they are doing it much cleaner than we did.
Also, Biden has done more to push back against China than any president
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Biden has done more to push back against China than any president
YES. Outlawing internal combustion engines and requiring battery/solar powered everything is pushing "back against China" bigly!
Now, back to sniffing other people's hair...
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Citation? Data? On this list [factsinstitute.com] the US ranks 23rd, China 121st.
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We're working on it. Wind and solar everywhere you look. Give us time, we won't be using any of that "burning" stuff.
Different rules by vehicle type? (Score:3)
Why not tax emissions (highly), and let the market work out where that pollution should come from. We've already had accurate emissions measurement equipment for years.
Once a year you get your car exhaust measured (as you already doing most states for purposes of inspection), multiply that by the change in odometer, and multiply that by the emissions tax rate.
EVs would pay a tax of zero, which would encourage their adoption. "But power plants pollute!" you might say. That's true, but power plants are already required to buy pollution credits very similar to what I describe above. This seems like an unobtrusive tax, simple, easy for an individual to optimize, and benefits the environment to boot.
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31 states have extra EV registration fees (Score:2)
Special Fees on Plug-In Hybrid and Electric Vehicles [ncsl.org].
So over half the states are charging extra annual registration fees to make up for what the EV owner would have paid in gas taxes.
Sadly many of these fees are punitive - last year we successfully fought one propo
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Why not tax emissions (highly), and let the market work out where that pollution should come from. We've already had accurate emissions measurement equipment for years.
Once a year you get your car exhaust measured (as you already doing most states for purposes of inspection), multiply that by the change in odometer, and multiply that by the emissions tax rate.
EVs would pay a tax of zero, which would encourage their adoption. "But power plants pollute!" you might say. That's true, but power plants are already required to buy pollution credits very similar to what I describe above. This seems like an unobtrusive tax, simple, easy for an individual to optimize, and benefits the environment to boot.
We have taxes on gas already. I guess that means if I have a heavy polluting but gas-efficient car, I get off cheaper, but don't think a lot of those exist.
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I guess that means if I have a heavy polluting but gas-efficient car, I get off cheaper, but don't think a lot of those exist.
Ironically that's exactly what you have today. NOx emissions are related somewhat to pressure and temperature during combustion. The most fuel efficient engines are typically those that burn at the highest temperature and pressure.
This is also largely why there's such a focus on diesel. Diesel temperature and pressure of combustion are higher than that of gasoline, it is one of the reasons you get so much better mileage out of it. ... It also is the reason why diesel engines create significantly higher NOx
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Simple, by placing a regulation on the manufacturer you avoid two things:
a) The poor people being disproportionately affected (those who can't afford to replace their car).
b) The rich people not giving a flying fuck (and continuing to emit because they are privileged fuckers who don't care).
By placing a requirement on manufacturers this issue largely goes away, and before you say "but it'll cost more". ... Will it? Economies of scale are still a thing and complexity doesn't mean expense, if it didn't auto t
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Why not tax emissions (highly), and let the market work out where that pollution should come from. We've already had accurate emissions measurement equipment for years.
Where is the rent seeking in that? It would be politically unacceptable for lack of rent seeking. The same applies to a carbon tax.
The EPA started to ramp up their... (Score:3)
...enforcement right after Dave Sparks (Heavy D) was caught by the EPA blatantly turning tucks into coal rollers on the T.V. show Diesel Brothers. If anyone is to blame, it's people like him. He is a greedy person and got caught, the rest of the modified automotive industry is paying for it. Please remember, there ARE responsible "car guys" that are able to modify their cars without violating environmental laws unlike Dave Sparks.
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The EPA started ramping up their enforcement and rule making the second Congress gave them explicit power to do so this year. There's been a ton of things on the back burner because Court challenges and what not were slowing down implementation. After the whole WV SCOTUS case that took power from the EPA, Congress got wise to all the "but, but, but. . ." that was coming from those opposed to the EPA. And so they passed about 200 some odd pages of new law that dealt with nothing but granting explicit powe
This is near and dear to my heart (Score:5, Insightful)
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Few things annoy me more than being stuck behind a vehicle dumping thick black smoke
Problem is that this isn't what the EPA is cracking down on. They are going after NOx. That tends to be produced by diesels running on the lean side to burn up particulates. The thick black smoke trucks are running rich, cool and producing much less nitrogen oxides.
Re: This is near and dear to my heart (Score:2)
If you are so smart, why don't you explain the chemistry of NOx production, its relationship to combustion temperature and how that is affected by air/fuel mixture ratios.
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> Few things annoy me more than being stuck behind a vehicle dumping thick black smoke for me and my family to breathe in.
Call me crazy, but I hit the recirculation button and feel grateful that somebody's driveway is being repaired.
I don't live in the most ideal world I can imagine.
I still don't understand... (Score:2)
...why none of those big trucks, buses, etc go for a series hybrid [wikipedia.org] (there are some being used, but not enough). Big equipment uses it (check the link). Seems simpler that the current hybrid/electric cars. I think that would be great on big trucks. Have a smallish diesel engine with a generator that powers/charges battery/drivetrain when needed.
Amazon are doing their part (Score:1)
Meanwhile here in Europe..... (Score:4, Informative)
I'm suspicious (Score:2)
This ignores the much more significant health effects of soot and sulfur oxides, which come primarily from diesel, used by trucks and construction equipment. They have a good lobby.
This may simply be a back door way to try to limit CO_2 emissions.
Not To Worry (Score:2)
2045? They will _ALL_ be electric by then. Battery advancements are occurring at breakneck speed, with solid state, and sodium-sulphur, and graphine and etc. etc. being built and improved every day. Cars are expected to reach price parity in 2026, and trucks can't be that far behind. Electricity as a fuel is about 1/3 to 1/4th the price of petroleum, which means petroleum is dead as a doornail in the near to medium future. Burning _anything_ is going to be a major money loser compared to electric
What micron size is black soot? (Score:1)
What size particles kill you or reduce your life expectancy?
https://people.eng.unimelb.edu... [unimelb.edu.au]
Soot particle emissions from diesel engines raise health and
environmental issues, primarily due to its micro and nano-scale
sizes that can penetrate into human respiration systems [1].
Therefore, engine developers work towards new generations of
diesel engines achieving low soot emissions. While the overall
amount of soot particles have been reduced significantly, an
outstanding issue is that soot particles emitted from