Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading!

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
The Almighty Buck United States

Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting for Alternatives To the US Dollar (bloomberg.com) 221

King Dollar is facing a revolt. Tired of a too-strong and newly weaponized greenback, some of the world's biggest economies are exploring ways to circumvent the US currency. From a report: Smaller nations, including at least a dozen in Asia, are also experimenting with de-dollarization. And corporates around the world are selling an unprecedented portion of their debt in local currencies, wary of further dollar strength. No one is saying the greenback will be dethroned anytime soon from its reign as the principal medium of exchange. Calls for "peak dollar" have many times proven premature. But not too long ago it was almost unthinkable for countries to explore payment mechanisms that bypassed the US currency or the SWIFT network that underpins the global financial system.

Now, the sheer strength of the dollar, its use under President Joe Biden to enforce sanctions on Russia this year and new technological innovations are together encouraging nations to start chipping away at its hegemony. "This will simply intensify the efforts in Russia and China to try to manage their part of the world economy without the dollar," said Paul Tucker, a former deputy governor of the Bank of England in a Bloomberg podcast. Writing in a newsletter last week, John Mauldin, an investment strategist and president of Millennium Wave Advisors with more than three decades of markets experience said the Biden administration made an error in weaponizing the US dollar and the global payment system. "That will force non-US investors and nations to diversify their holdings outside of the traditional safe haven of the US," said Mauldin.

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Suddenly Everyone Is Hunting for Alternatives To the US Dollar

Comments Filter:
  • Not stronger (Score:5, Insightful)

    by WoodstockJeff ( 568111 ) on Friday December 30, 2022 @11:05AM (#63168160) Homepage

    The dollar isn't stronger. It's just "less weak" than the alternatives.

    • The dollar isn't stronger. It's just "less weak" than the alternatives.

      ^THIS^

    • It is a good time to convert $ to Euro.
    • Also, the Russian Ruble is NOT going to become a viable alternative, that's just ludicrous. Not even the Russian mercenaries want to be paid in that.

      The problem with Russian and Chinese currencies is that there is distrust of those governments. Of course, everyone distrusts governments, but Russia is essentially now run by criminals, and China is seen more as a place to sell to rather than invest in.

    • Let them eat DOGEX.
    • -1, uninsightful

      There is no definition for "strength" of a currency other than relative purchasing power.

  • by PPH ( 736903 ) on Friday December 30, 2022 @11:10AM (#63168166)

    ... to suggest Bitcoin.

    [ducking and running]

    • Unlike other cryptos, Monero is actually used as currency
    • by mysidia ( 191772 )

      If you're going to suggest Crypto, then at least suggest a stablecoin.

      Perhaps a coin backed by Multiple fiat reserves; instead of one Fiat currency?

      Say 100 Fiat currencies each weighted to represent 1% of the coin's backing.

  • Get the Sudis and all the world's commodity traders to accept payment in something else.

    I'll not hold my breath.

  • Everything in the US has skyrocketed in price so badly that traveling to the US is an utter waste of money.

    The cost of buying dollars is also way too far out of control.

    I used to source components for networks and high performance computers from the U.S. but thanks to unreasonable prices in the sense that the dollar is not worth anything anymore and somehow it costs too much to buy, I moved my procurements to Asia.

    My department is currently looking to move a $2billion procurement out of America and likely w
    • by nightflameauto ( 6607976 ) on Friday December 30, 2022 @11:23AM (#63168202)

      What kills me is how obvious this outcome was to those of us not deemed "monetary/financial experts." There was a nicely developing global economy where America was the gorilla standing on top of the universe with a big smile. We wanted more, letting our greed take the best of us, and our leaders thought the best way of doing that was by saying, "If we're number one? We'll take our ball and go home! Fuck everybody else."

      As I said when it was proposed and being batted around as a concept, with a world economy built on the US dollar, if the US starts pulling back the rest of the world will continue to move forward, while we stagnate or even regress, all while professing how amazing we are.

      And here it's happening. And the dumbest part of all is, we aren't moving manufacturing back to America as promised. Most of us are still buying foreign, even with the silly tariff nonsense that pretty much did nothing but increase prices for Americans and make the rest of the world pull away from us faster.

      What a well laid and executed plan. It's almost like our leaders are too dumb to see the obvious, or they were manipulated into doing the worst by somebody that wanted to take us down. Sadly, it could legitimately be either. It's not like we lack proof of corruption up at the top. Our entire government is based on bribery and lies. Any attempt to change it is met with the brick-wall of "but, but, but, like, some people are happy, man. You can't hurt them. The rest of you should just keep suffering because we got a few corporate sponsors that dig the status quo."

      Well, that went cheerful.

      • It's almost like our leaders are too dumb to see the obvious, or they were manipulated into doing the worst by somebody that wanted to take us down. Sadly, it could legitimately be either.

        Why choose? The two aren't mutually exclusive, and in my mind it's likely that both are true.

      • The tariff nonsense was so stupid. The Republicans abandoned that back in the early 19th century and were for free trade for so long, with mostly Democrats being protectionist. But protectionism is a bad idea. So the tariffs go up, local US businesses start losing money and are told by the orange man to suck it up and be "patriotic" because he had an ego beef with the rest of the world.

        And economists have long known that a strong currency is good for imports but terrible for exports and usually governmen

      • For unrelated reasons, I just finished reading the wiki about Love Canal in NY and I can't imagine that until we get a firm, cost-effective control on hazardous wastes, we won't bring manufacturing back to the US. Other countries make convenient and less expensive dumping ground for our hazardous waste. Why would any company in their right mind bring that cost and hassle back to America?
    • My department is currently looking to move a $2billion procurement out of America and likely will send it to China for networking equipment in Q1.

      Hope none of it is Huawei or Hikivision.

    • by narcc ( 412956 ) on Friday December 30, 2022 @12:07PM (#63168292) Journal

      Everything in the US has skyrocketed in price so badly that traveling to the US is an utter waste of money.

      You're a moron. Or liar. Probably both.

      Inflation is global, and it's not nearly as bad in the US as it is everywhere else in the world.

      • Proof: gas is now below $4 a gallon in LAS VEGAS

        • I've been surprised at the prices lately, too. Oil prices drove the last big inflation in the 70's, and they stayed high. I never expected them to go down.

  • by aldousd666 ( 640240 ) on Friday December 30, 2022 @11:25AM (#63168208) Journal
    The oft predicted collapse of the dollar hegemony is always 'within the next decade'
    • I completely agree, but at the same time it only has to happen once to be a real fucking problem.
    • The oft predicted collapse of the dollar hegemony is always 'within the next decade'

      Indeed, but this time it's not just doom-sayers, this time there's mitigating geo-political reasons why it not only may happen, but why it is actually a good idea for the coutnries involved (rather than some fever dream by some anti-gubbmit AC who failed economics 101).

      The current global upset spurred on by Russian and Chinese international relations should only be written off at your peril. Remember the story of the boy who cried wolf? What happened in the end? The sheep got eaten.

  • Looks like American defense contractors are going to be injected with even more cash for the foreseeable future. The dollar losing its underpinning as a bulk of the worlds finances is seen as a national security risk, or more appropriately a risk to the few wealthy stakeholders who underpin all their campaign finance and allow them to continue being elected which is fundamentally more important. They won’t let it go without serious fights on all fronts, and we’re all in luck because this is o
  • Third world corporations were supposed to have learnt that lesson last time that the dollar strengthened and lots of small countries currencies caught a cold. Sadly too many didn't, and we're here again.

    Until the American economy collapses - perhaps because the Congress critters fail to pass a debt increase motion, perhaps because the Big one finally hits California, or indeed elsewhere, the dollar will always tend to remain stronger than the rest of the world's currencies. This is because it is relatively

    • by sfcat ( 872532 )

      This is because it is relatively well insulated against external shocks - certainly compared to most serious countries.

      This is a good point that all the tankies and financial "experts" on this thread miss. The US economy is less dependent upon foreign trade that any other economy in the world by a wide margin. If the US tomorrow decided that it didn't want to trade with anyone outside of North America, it might create a lot of political complains but nothing of any consequence would happen. Between the US and Mexico, we have everything we need. The same can't be said for any other country in the world. If global trade

  • Suddenly? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Friday December 30, 2022 @11:36AM (#63168230) Homepage Journal

    That word does not mean what you think it means.

    There's been consistent demand for an alternative, but nothing has cropped up.

    For all its ills, the USD has been remarkably stable.

    • Not really. Demand for alternatives have been pitifully low for much of the 20th and the start of the 21st century. The past 2ish years has really seen an unprecedented change in geo-political relations between some of the wealthiest and most influential countries on this topic. Yeah the change is "sudden" in terms of what it takes to move the needle here.

  • Hyperbole Much? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TomGreenhaw ( 929233 ) on Friday December 30, 2022 @11:50AM (#63168250)
    Everybody? Not true at all. Maybe OPEC+ and China and a handful of pariah states have decided that they no longer wish to trade with the US, but they will soon discover that the flow of capital and access to western markets will drastically diminish thereby cratering their economies. A few neighboring states may also have to trade in multiple currencies. The reality is that they wish to manipulate their currencies to gain advantage and they will end up fighting each other.

    Nothing to see here. This is just more of the mountain of propaganda for countries too weak to compete in open markets.
  • I'm starting a fresh exchange based on superior technology. I'm calling it GUZ, easy trades including NFTs.
  • by hdyoung ( 5182939 ) on Friday December 30, 2022 @12:15PM (#63168318)
    In terms of controlling the monetary system, which country would you prefer to trust over Uncle Sam? The alternatives:

    Russia
    China
    A crypto system.

    I’m not claiming the the US is awesome. But those alternatives are just plain awful.
    • You're begging the question. Why does the monetary system need a global control? The reason smaller players have tied their economy to the USD is they were trying to game the system. There's no reason they can't trade themselves.

      Interesting you mentioned Evil-1, Evil-2 and Crypto on your list and ignored a currency run by an economy with a higher GDP than the US. It's a bit dishonest to suggest Russia, China, Crptyo but ignore the likes of the EU.

  • Even if they win the war they are still fcuked due to the amount of damage they have done to their own country. China have also fcuked up badly. Both nations are going downhill rapidly. The thing to worry about is how many nukes they'll launch to try and prevent their downfall
  • What countries? The link is paywalled and the summary reads like some whacked out libertarian screed. My guess is that these "world's biggest economies" are just China and a bunch of other small frie bad actor countries trying to skirt repercussions of their actions.

    • Re:"Countries" (Score:5, Insightful)

      by edi_guy ( 2225738 ) on Friday December 30, 2022 @01:09PM (#63168456)

      I did RTFA and yeah, aside from Russia and China the other countries mentioned are:
      "Bangladesh, Kazakhstan and Laos"
                Plus this gem:
      "Myanmar’s junta spokesman said the dollar was being used to “to bully smaller nations.”

      So blah, blah blah America is a bully, but honestly, who in their right mind would trust China over the USD for global currency. And Russia will soon become even more irrelevant as an economy if Europe can successfully wean themselves from the gas and oil. Let Russia and China share a bed together and see who is the bigger cheater/liar/bully.

    • by sfcat ( 872532 )
      It is a Bloomberg article. Bloomberg often does great financial reporting but sometimes they miss like this one. Bloomberg (the person, not the news organization he owns) invested a ton of money in China. The trade war cost him a lot. He is still pissed about that. He is trying to pressure the US government to back-off conducting a trade war with China at the same time as putting the screws to Russia. Nobody will listen except for the folks who also lost huge amounts of money in China and blame the US
  • by Whateverthisis ( 7004192 ) on Friday December 30, 2022 @01:01PM (#63168428)
    For those of you without a Bloomberg account, here is the exact same article reprinted for free via Yahoo! [yahoo.com].

    From the article:

    Premise: "Tired of a too-strong and newly weaponized greenback, some of the world’s biggest economies are exploring ways to circumvent the US currency."

    Reason why: "And corporates around the world are selling an unprecedented portion of their debt in local currencies, wary of further dollar strength."

    Support: "Now, the sheer strength of the dollar (1), its use under President Joe Biden to enforce sanctions on Russia this year (2) and new technological innovations (3) are together encouraging nations to start chipping away at its hegemony."

    1 is true. 3 isn't even remotely true nor is it supported in the article.

    2 doesn't make sense. The US used the Dollar and SWIFT transactions to encourage political support? So as a result people are exploring trade in RMB? Give me a break, China is way more overtly political with it's use of economic leverage, just look at how China uses it's loans via Belt and Road to influence countries, and the Chinese government has way more control over their own economy and policies than the US government has over it's economy. The RMB has not become a large part of the global economy precisely because of wariness of the authoritarian control of the Chinese government, it's currency manipulation and its opaque financial system. That hasn't changed at all.

    "While all these measures may have a limited market impact short term, the end result may be an eventual weakening of demand for the dollar."

    Ok, but the primary issue is a strong dollar, which is strong because there is high demand for the dollar. Weakening demand makes the dollar more attractive and the problem goes away, stopping any exploration of alternatives. A slightly weaker dollar doesn't change the fact that the US economy is where everyone wants to do business, so... these efforts driven by a strong dollar may make the dollar weaker thus eliminating the need for these efforts?

    This whole article and supposition is stupid. The US is an open economy. It's consumer market is enormous with a high spend rate. Everyone wants to do business there. The US government and it's financial system are far more fair, transparent, and easy to do business in if you're from another culture than Russia or China or Europe. A strong dollar right now is making people explore alternatives, sure, but the US dollar's position is built on basic foundations that still exist and are unshakeable by any other nation and will make the dollar still dominant for the vast foreseeable future.

    • Russian subversion tactics from the cold war only took a break they never stopped.

      The article seems like classic KGB tactics to me; get an agent placed in an editor position to promote subtle cultural damage and the people who propagate it. Hell, they seem to practically run Faux News now... and by run I mean they heavily influence it but let it somewhat take it's own course (with subtle guidance... a lot of it in this case.) Murdock doesn't need to be involved.

      I'm not even getting into the issues present

      • This I'd believe. I would only disagree with you that the subversion tactics took a break during the Cold War; rather I would say Russian subversion tactics, particularly through media manipulation and the internet, are stronger than they ever were even counting the Soviet Union. If the US is top dog and other potentially near peers want to compete with it on the international stage, they can't compete economically, they can't compete militarily, they mostly can't compete culturally (if you view Hollywood
    • I agree the premise seems nonsense.

      I propose a simple hypothetical. You have a giant pile of cash you need to convert into a currency for the next 10 years and you want to make sure it doesn't lose a bunch of value, where are you going to put it?

      The British Pound? Maybe, though after leaving the EU I'd be worried about their prospects.

      Japan? South Korea? I think they're both fairly stable.

      Euros? The EU is pretty big and stable, but also kinda new and the whole multi-country currency thing is still kinda new

    • I think you misread the premise of the article. It is not the strong dollar that prompted government to explore alternatives. It is the level of control US government has over dollar assets. While dollar as reserve currency is not in any immediate danger, the alternative reserve currencies are chipping away at US government geopolitical leverage. If renminbi emerges as viable reserve currency, China will be able to exercise much great control over developing nations than we would ideally like. This is a maj
  • If countries are concerned, they can always go back to the old standbys of gold and silver. Those are time honored currencies that, well, hold their literal weight in gold and silver. The U.S. still has nearly all the gold it stole from U.S. citizens ~90 years ago over in Fort Knox and isn't going anywhere very fast.

  • bringing 'freedumb' in 2023 then.
  • Simply using some currency besides the dollar for trading is extremely easy. The challenge is avoiding the dollar while at the same time selling to and buying things from the Western world. If Russia and China wanted to form their own trading block that had absolutely no trade with the West, they could ditch the dollar today. Unfortunately for them (even for China), their economies are still dependent on the West. China has been trying to decrease dependence on the West by encouraging domestic consumpti

  • He likes to pretend he is above the political fray. Yet, he is a reliable water carrier for the GOP, and seems to be entirely unperturbed by their descent into fascism.

  • This is what everyone wants. Oh, Russia? Destabilize everything so they come out on top of a giant cesspool of debt, sure, why not. China? Want that stable currency? Two options: massive economy + massive totalarian control of your citizens...good luck expect a revolution; OR massive economy + transparent controls.. good luck it ain't easy but we are doing it (barely).

  • My bullshit detector always beeps off the charts when I start seeing mutually exclusive attacks on something in major media. Especially from Gloomberg. In one breath the dollar is "crashing" and Soviet bread lines are imminent, and in the next the dollar is "too strong" and business is "fleeing" to find less overbearing currencies. I assume they're just making shit up as usual.

Avoid strange women and temporary variables.

Working...