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India Set an 'Incredibly Important Precedent' By Banning TikTok, FCC Commissioner Says (techcrunch.com) 67

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
India set an "incredibly important precedent" by banning TikTok two and a half years ago, FCC Commissioner said, as he projected a similar fate for the Chinese giant Bytedance app in the U.S. From a report: Brendan Carr, Commissioner of the FCC, warned that TikTok "operates as a sophisticated surveillance tool," and told the Indian daily Economic Times that banning the social app is a "natural next step in our efforts to secure communication network."

The senior Republican on the Federal Communications Commission said he is worried that China could use sensitive and non-public data gleaned from TikTok to "blackmail, espionage, foreign influence campaigns and surveillance." He said: "We need to follow India's lead more broadly to weed out other nefarious apps as well," he said. Carr's remarks further illustrates a growing push among U.S. states and lawmakers that are increasingly growing cautious of TikTok, which has amassed over 100 million users in the nation.
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India Set an 'Incredibly Important Precedent' By Banning TikTok, FCC Commissioner Says More

India Set an 'Incredibly Important Precedent' By Banning TikTok, FCC Commissioner Says

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  • There's not much new to be said on the topic. This isn't unique to Tiktok. Other apps such as Facebook have just as much, if not more of your information. Google has even more since it's getting data from every layer of your phone OS. All social media platforms are used for political manipulation of the masses. I'm not actually sure if it's advertising or control that make up the primary business model. The real motivation here is that Tiktok won't bend the knee to the USG the same way as the other apps,

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by DrMrLordX ( 559371 )

      Various three-letter agencies likely use this information as it suits them. Tiktok isn't theirs to manipulate. That makes it a problem, at least in their eyes.

      • It may not be theirs to manipulate, but any exploit in the TikTok software or architecture is to their advantage. They can (possibly) just sit MitM and collect data on our children, teens, and adults without their consent.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        The good ol' whataboutism argument. Everyone someone talks about china, the "what about the US? They are evil incarnate" replies pop up like macros.

        FB/Meta goes to a government that doesn't have any interest in ripping apart India's sovereignity. Tiktok goes to a government on the border with India that has been on a low-key skirmish with them for decades now with constant fighting. India is doing the right thing, especially because they really don't want any intel that can help power a major incursion

        • I never said it was bad or good, it's just real. They don't control Tiktok so they don't like it. You don't expect them to gore their own ox, do you?

      • Apple, Google, FB, LI are open kimono to USA agencies, via PRISM, and Tiktok provides that surveillance service to Chinese gov alone. Hence the petulant stance.

    • Re:Why can mobile apps do this? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by allcoolnameswheretak ( 1102727 ) on Monday January 02, 2023 @11:25AM (#63174012)

      But TikTok is an app controlled by a Chinese company. Which effectively means that it is controlled by the Chinese government. Which is an authoritarian government that is competing and sometimes hostile to the West, and western values, like Democracy, liberty of the individual, and free speech. And this government is also allied with equally authoritarian nations who are some of the greatest enemies of Democratic nations, such as Iran, North Korea and Russia. The latter of which is waging a brutal war of territorial conquest against its democratic neighbouring country of Ukraine. As punishment for aligning with the EU and the West instead of Russia.

      Also lets remember that most Western social networks and other Internet companies are banned in these repressive countries.

    • Re:Why can mobile apps do this? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Monday January 02, 2023 @11:43AM (#63174042)

      I keep a Leatherman multi purpose utility knife in my car. While I could use it as a deadly weapon, or I could injure myself if I misused it. But having access to Good enough tools for most small jobs that may unexpectedly appear, makes it worth its risks.

      While having access to such tech on your smart phone can be open to abuse, they also add access to a set of software that that for the most part is good enough for most of our needs.

      I have a tuner app, that allows me to more easily tune my instrument to the correct pitch, this app needs access to my phones microphone.
      I have an app that tracks the statistics of my hike where I went how far I hiked, how much elevation average speeds... That needs access to the GPS
      My work envrionment is a Microsoft shop so we use Teams, for video meetings. That needs access to the Camera and Microphone
      When setting up a WiFi location in my house, I may use an app that can see the single strength in all my rooms to find the best spot.

      Your Mobile Device is basically the Swiss Army Knife (or a Leatherman) of computing. Preventing 3rd party apps from access to such features, would prevent the devices utility to be fully utilized. We already complain how Apple and Google overly restrict our access to the phone, imagine if they lock down the phone further so we could only use the prescribed apps, or just some games on the device.

      • Re:Why can mobile apps do this? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by jm007 ( 746228 ) on Monday January 02, 2023 @12:48PM (#63174196)

        I get where you're going with the analogy, but an important difference is that with the leatherman, YOU are the sole decider of if/when/how each tool is used

        if the multi-tool were designed in such a way that in order to use the screwdriver you had to also open out the blade and awl, you would have to now think about the dangers of those sticking out when all you needed was the screwdriver.... wtf?

        finer-grained access and understanding of app permissions -- with the ultimate goal of giving the user that same kind of choice -- is what I'd prefer; if the user cripples the app, then so be it, at least the user is the one deciding; opt-in features (a la carte) already has precedence in some apps, eg, features can be unlocked depending upon pricing tiers (common in desktop apps) so the concept of limited functionality can be part of the overall design, not an all-or-nothing false dilemna

        and since I'm rambling, many times I've downloaded an app for a specific use (tuner, gps tracker, wifi signals, etc.) and been prompted to give permissions to something totally unrelated, like my contacts, messages, etc.; now it *may* be innocent because the app has a feature to let you 'share' something with others, but if all I want is the tuner feature, then forcing me to accept on good faith all the other permissions is above my risk tolerance, so I usually have to hunt for alternatives

        given how much info/data is on our phones these days, there is too much at risk for me to trust some distant 3rd party motivated by profit or worse; the multi-tool analogy is the ideal, but what we have now is actually far short of that

        • The permission model has been pretty fine-grained since Android 10 or so, and by Android 12 it really has all of the things I want (My device is Android 11, though, heh.) What 12 has that 11 doesn't is third party app stores as first class citizens, there's a permission to allow them to upgrade apps silently. Android 10 has such useful features as allowing camera or GPS only when the app is in the foreground.

          Sometimes apps refuse to work even if you don't grant them permissions they don't need, and then you

    • As others here have also stated, Tiktok's the wrong kind of intrusive, blanket/dragnet surveillance. Repeat after me: "Sillicon Valley surveillance good. Chinese surveillance bad."

  • Follow India's Lead... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Comboman ( 895500 ) on Monday January 02, 2023 @10:21AM (#63173912)

    ...because when I think about computer security, I think of India. Those helpful people in the Mumbai call centers are always ready to remotely log in to my computer and remove all those viruses the browser pop-ups warn me about.

    • Re:Follow India's Lead... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) on Monday January 02, 2023 @11:27AM (#63174014) Journal
      Have you wondered why all those scammers call Americans and not other Indians? Have you wondered why these scams dont work well in India?

      Do you know Indian companies do not have a public portal and an internal portal? Even employees working in the office sitting in their own desks constantly have to get OTP (one time password) to anything.

      The security measures discovered and developed in India will become prevalent here too. The education of public about info security, passwords etc is quite high there. Indians can set up their credit cards to ask for clearance for every transaction. It is common for people to "push" cash from their smartphones to the vendor, unlike vendors "pulling" cash from your credit/debit cards as they do in USA.

      USA has developed into this duopoly of two credit card companies, they tolerate fraud as cost of doing business and allow enough oxygen for scammers to thrive in USA. The 50$ liability limit on fraudulent charges is one of the root causes for the lax security in USA. People don't care because it is just 50 $ max. Companies dont care as long as their fraud rate is not higher than their competitors.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by spitzak ( 4019 )

        I'm pretty certain Indian scammers scam Indians and many other nationalities. The main selection criteria is that the target has to use a computer and speak English. Do you have any proof that their schemes don't work as well in India as in the USA? It seems doubtful.

        • Indians are very wary and careful. They are constantly exposed to scams, not just on the internet or smartphones. So they are very very careful.

          There are lots of scams in India. Indians do get scammed a lot. But usually it is direct and personal, not remotely through internet. It is difficult to explain it to Americans. My uncle would watch like hawk the mechanic fixing his scooter, worried he might swap out genuine parts from his beloved Bajaj Chetak and replace it with a substandard used part. When the

          • Indians are very wary and careful. They are constantly exposed to scams, not just on the internet or smartphones. So they are very very careful.

            There are lots of scams in India. Indians do get scammed a lot. But usually it is direct and personal, not remotely through internet. It is difficult to explain it to Americans. My uncle would watch like hawk the mechanic fixing his scooter, worried he might swap out genuine parts from his beloved Bajaj Chetak and replace it with a substandard used part. When the whole society is alert to scams to this level, the scams too are very sophisticated. If you call a random Indian, claim to be an Income Tax officer and threaten to send police after him, he would laugh derisively, "What you talking man? My name is Venkatasubiah Naidu, not William Jefferson! Get out of here!"

            I don't doubt anything you said here. It is a narrative that presents a theory of Indian consumer behavior that is both plausible and possible.

            Nevertheless, it still does not provide a proof to answer the original question, which I quote below:

            Do you have any proof that their schemes don't work as well in India as in the USA?

            It is important to understand that I am neither doubting or supporting either party in this conversation. However, it is also important, if not more so, to be able to present proof when requested. If you don't have that proof, then it is fine to say so and to say, f

      • Those scams are not so prevalent inside India due to #1 people in the USA and the UK having much more money than the average Indian so much better chance of getting a hit and #2 the moment they start to scam that much inside India they would awake the Indian police that right now don't care since it only affects foreigners.
        • Sooner or later they will hit an Indian American who could be married to the niece of a local Member of Parliament or the Inspector General of Police. You could imagine a phone call, "Uncle Manish? This is Shubhatra. Please let us know when you would be free around June next year, we want to make sure you can attend Sohni's arangetram. Uncle, we need your help. Some scam center from India has scammed Vijay and we lost some cash....", and sleepy policemen in Delhi suddenly taking some scamcenter seriously.
          • one could dream, but then that will take out one of thousands of such centers so unfortunately just a blip on the radar.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kbahey ( 102895 )

        Have you wondered why all those scammers call Americans and not other Indians? Have you wondered why these scams dont work well in India?

        I think there is a more practical and mundane explanation: jurisdiction ...
        If a call center in India starts scamming Indians, it will be shutdown in no time, and the owners and operators will be in prison awaiting trails.

        When the victim is overseas, the police in India has no incentive to act, or they act slowly. The overseas police has to initiate action with India's poli

  • India will lead in security counter measures. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) on Monday January 02, 2023 @11:19AM (#63173994) Journal
    India never had a sophisticated id management or credit reports system.

    The scammers have lots of opportunities there. The policing of India is very difficult. It is highly under policed compared to the west. Its 144 officers per 100,000 makes it 128th out of 146 ranking [wikipedia.org]. It records security camera in all toll gates and city roads, scans license plate, tracks cell phones, gets access to call logs and records.

    Terrorist bombings used to be as common in India as mad man going on shooting rampage in America now.

    This is the place most effective policing procedures will be discovered and refined. What works and what does not, they will figure out. What works there might not be acceptable to the West today. India does not consider privacy to be any fundamental right, General attitude is, for the benefit of the community and nation sacrifice privacy, it is ok.

    But every technological advance is immediately exploited by the scammers and it takes law and the society time to get used to it and develop counter measures. In time West will sacrifice much of the privacy concerns and adopt most of what gets developed in India, with regards to policing and technology.

    • your assumption that the Indian establishment is uncomfortable with the amount that its criminals are milking the USA for is optimistic. It's a nice source of bribes for police officers, a nice little earner for the criminals, and keeps many over educated and underemployed young people out of the elite's hair.

      • They are not really seriously upset Americans are scammed. Heck, how many Americans care about the exploitation of other countries? Why would Indians care about Americans being scammed?

        American and Canadian immigrants send cash back home that funds violent "liberation" movements. Kashmir, Khaslistan (Punjab), Elam (Sri Lanka), Eritria (near Somalia) just off the top of my head. Did you care? Did you even know? Why expect Indian Police Officers to save your tail?

        It is in their interest to make sure this s

    • Comparing number of officers per capita seems like a loaded metric for countries like India.

      1 officer per 100k means something very different in a densely packed city than it does - for example - across the tundras of Canada.

  • "[Android] operates as a sophisticated surveillance tool"

    FTFY

  • So sad.

    Now all the Democrats have to fabricate new evidence that causes them to change their minds about how dangerous TikTok is.

    And all the Republicans have to figure out some way to tell us Trump fixed all the China problems, so everyone should use TikTok now.

  • Wow, cutting edge comments from the FCC on something that happened YEARS ago. LOL.

  • Don't forget they banned legit VLC because people were shipping counterfeit VLC with malware.

    So Indian people could only get the malware versions, not the legit version.

    This isn't an example of genius, even if TikTok is a CPC psyop.

  • Just say that right-wing extremists are using the platform to spread disinformation and hate speech about an election and Google, Apple and Amazon will de-platform them in nothing flat. It won't take any legislation; the courts won't intercede, and it'll stop.

    *cough* Parler *cough*

    • Just say that right-wing extremists are using the platform to spread disinformation and hate speech about an election and Google, Apple and Amazon will de-platform them in nothing flat.

      You mean breaking the law? Yeah, they will kick them off their store for that. However, Google doesn't prevent you from sideloading, nor does Amazon.

  • Right the US should be following a country that isn't ranked very high in terms of first amendment type issues. It's ranked amongst the bottom for freedom of press. They have cut off internet to large sections of their country like in Kashmir, etc.

    But the US is becoming more and more authoritarian everyday, so perhaps India, a third world country with third world issues should be its role model. Next we should be following what other banana republics are doing in S. America.

  • You can't eat your cake and have it too... The same with global economy: globalism is good and nice when American companies dominate the market, but when a foreign one (Tiktok now, Huawei and Samsung before and such), protectionism goes in full gear. What's next, ban on Chinese electric cars?

    • Are you joking about cars because that's going to totally happen and has way more levers to pull to get the desired effect...

      this is basically pure economic war that has been developing against all Chinese electronics for a decade or so... which has certain logic in supply chains but effectively ignores we did this to ourselves.

  • I'm not quiet sure how twitter, facebook or others would be exempt.

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