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The Military United States

Pentagon Shoots Down an Unidentified Object over Alaska (nytimes.com) 150

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
The Pentagon downed an unidentified object over Alaska on Thursday night at the order of President Biden, according to a U.S. official. From a report: The U.S. official said it was not confirmed if the object was a balloon, but it was traveling at an altitude that made it a potential threat to civilian aircraft. Mr. Biden ordered the unidentified object downed "out of an abundance of caution," the official said. The action comes less than a week after a U.S. fighter jet shot down a Chinese spy balloon that had traversed the United States, according to three American officials. The latest breach, officials said, took place Thursday night, over Alaska. One official described it as a "fast-moving" situation that was still developing. It is not clear if the object was from an adversarial power, or a commercial or research operation that has gone astray, the official said.
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Pentagon Shoots Down an Unidentified Object over Alaska More

Pentagon Shoots Down an Unidentified Object over Alaska

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  • NORAD woke up (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

    You can tell that it was too long after 9/11 and Cold War, and NORAD just got used to not really serving its primary function.

    Good thing they got a low key wake up call instead of something more serious.

    • Re:NORAD woke up (Score:5, Funny)

      by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Friday February 10, 2023 @02:52PM (#63282657)

      Well, their primary mission for quite some time has been to manage the Stargates... maybe an off-world crisis had their focus.

    • Re:NORAD woke up (Score:5, Insightful)

      by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Friday February 10, 2023 @03:12PM (#63282731)
      I would not assume that just because they missed the balloons that they would have missed incoming aircraft or (god forbid) ICBMs. They are attuned to detect viable threats, and a hot air balloon is not one.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by q4Fry ( 1322209 )

        viable threats, and a hot air balloon is not one.

        I wonder if there's a Crichton-style thriller about high-altitude balloons as a vehicle for biological agent dispersal.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Jeremi ( 14640 )

          I wonder if there's a Crichton-style thriller about high-altitude balloons as a vehicle for biological agent dispersal

          Crichton abandoned that plot device after his editor pointed out to him that it would be much cheaper and more effective to just send your Anthrax spores (or whatever) via first class mail.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by q4Fry ( 1322209 )

            Mix it into powdered sugar and ship it to ten state fairs to sprinkle on the local fried whatever.

        • viable threats, and a hot air balloon is not one.

          I wonder if there's a Crichton-style thriller about high-altitude balloons as a vehicle for biological agent dispersal.

          That would have been in the 5th season of Farscape [wikipedia.org] ... :-)

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Kaenneth ( 82978 )

          a lot more UV light up there; but maybe if the dispersal happened at night?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by hey! ( 33014 )

          Well, in that case the villain of the novel wouldn't be China. If China wanted to deliver a biological weapon to the US, it could just the pieces here, hidden in the hundreds of millions of tons of Chinese imports that enter the US. They could then assemble the weapon here, and use the high level of freedom of internal movement in the US to put it exactly where it would do the most damage.

          It would make more sense for the villain in this piece to be North Korea, a country with stockpiles of anthrax, choler

      • just because they missed the balloons

        It has been established that NORAD "missed" them?

        • Unfortunately yes

          https://www.airandspaceforces.... [airandspaceforces.com]

          NORAD Missed Previous Chinese Spy Balloons: 'A Domain Awareness Gap We Have to Figure Out'

          Chinese surveillance balloons have previously entered U.S. airspace but went undetected by the Pentagon, the commander in charge of protecting American skies said Feb. 6.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by q4Fry ( 1322209 )

            I heard that the ones they missed in the past were at Guam and Hawai'i. U.S. airspace, to be sure, but the overflight takes much less time. I imagine the successes there emboldened whoever ordered the incursion into CONUS. If you know differently, please link.

        • Re:NORAD woke up (Score:5, Interesting)

          by MacMann ( 7518492 ) on Friday February 10, 2023 @04:30PM (#63283051)

          I saw an interview recently of someone that claims to know how our radar defenses work and he described a blind spot in the system. They are looking for aircraft and satellites. Aircraft will have a maximum altitude and a minimum speed. Satellites will have a minimum altitude and a minimum speed. A weather balloon will fly at an altitude above what an aircraft will fly, below any stable orbit, and move so slowly that it is not likely to raise any alarms. He didn't say this explicitly but I got the impression that the balloon could have avoided attention because it didn't appear as any known weapon, but perhaps as a weather phenomenon.

          NORAD may have seen it on radar but still not considered it a threat since weather balloons go off course all the time. This balloon was not recognized as suspicious until it was seen changing altitude and direction so as to fly over sensitive military installations. Or at least that's the story as I heard it.

          • During WW2 the Japanese used balloon bombs to bomb the mainland US, so this is a known method of attack.

            • Japanese balloon bombing was largely unsuccessful due to the unpredictability of the air currents. Roughly 10,000 balloons were used to kill somewhere around 10 people. That's not a great use of resources. With the advent of modern travel and the freedom of movement for foreign citizens, there are easier and cheaper ways to attack US populations.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            What about SIGINT though? With all the paranoia over Chinese products in telecommunications networks, drones and stuff, surely the US is monitoring all signals in its territory.

            Those balloons must be sending the data somewhere. Sounds like they are getting commands to steer them too. The US has a lot of SIGINT satellites and ground stations, but somehow missed all that.

      • Let's hope we didn't piss them off too much then, we can only handle a few incoming ICBMs at a time. I don't think people really understand how narrow the window of opportunity is to actually cap one of these suckers before it lands. We have a LIMITED ability to counter incoming missiles. That doesn't mean we automatically get them all. Even three in a row would be pretty tough to stay on top of... so if they've got 4... or 5.... we wouldn't know what hit us in the target zone. That being said, I think we

        • Re: NORAD woke up (Score:4, Interesting)

          by LindleyF ( 9395567 ) on Friday February 10, 2023 @05:23PM (#63283245)
          Ambiguity about the effectiveness of our interception capabilities is one aspect of deterrence. Fortunately, it isn't the only one.
          • The US nuclear deterrent is many hundreds of 12,000km range SLBMs carrying many more hundreds of steerable warheads.
            Interception capacity isn't a deterrent, it's an instigator.

            The solution to any interception regime is more missiles.
            Deterrence comes from second-strike capability, and that comes from SLBMs.

      • a hot air balloon is not one

        Certainly not, since a hot air balloon would soon descend when it ran out of fuel.

        To be fair, though, helium balloons are also not much of a threat, even though they can stay up for much longer.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gavron ( 1300111 )

        Semantics:

        This was not a hot-air balloon. Likely it was a lighter than air gass-filled balloon.

        First, there were no burners to heat up hot air. Second due to thin air, hot-air balloons are limited to around 65,000ft.

        That really doesn't matter for the "Chyna Balloon" nor the "object". They were in US Airspace without authorization to enter. The former was in Class Echo airspace and did not need a radio, transponders, or communication with ATC. The latter was in Class Alpha airspace and needed a transpo

    • go to defcon 2

    • NORAD was kind've intended to deal with, say, ICBMs, not so much "large balloons". Do balloons frighten you? Is it the association with clowns? ...should we put this down to childhood nightmares about Pennywise?

    • During the height of the cold war balloons regularly penetrated enemy air defense systems undetected. In part because radar systems assume that a nearly stationary blob at the edge of space is a glitch and filter it out.

      Balloons are notoriously hard to deal with. The Soviets even built a plane explicitly to shoot down balloons (but decided that SA missiles had evolved to a point that they were no longer necessary by the time they finished development, and it was re-imagined as a spy plane).

    • Re:NORAD woke up (Score:5, Funny)

      by larryjoe ( 135075 ) on Friday February 10, 2023 @04:27PM (#63283027)

      You can tell that it was too long after 9/11 and Cold War, and NORAD just got used to not really serving its primary function.

      Wait, I thought NORAD's primary function was tracking Santa Claus. They've done a marvelous job at that for many years!

      • This is why they were tracking him. It was only a matter of time.

        Santa was quoted as saying, "So there I was, minding my own business, flying back home to the North Pole after a quick visit to my niece in Albuquerque, and the next thing I knew, I was lying face down in the f**king tundra, Blitzen was dead, and some Air Force a**hole was asking me if I was a Chinese spy in Mandarin. So of course, I said, 'Bùshi, no, nyet, non', and the next thing you knew, I was face down in the f**king tundra agai

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gtall ( 79522 )

      Errrrr...you have private information that the Russkies missiles have been retired? Do tell. Maybe you work for NORAD? Nope, you wouldn't be posting here. So you are just talking out of your ass and know nothing about NORAD.

    • Don't worry, we'll ramp up and get this Cold War restarted by the end of the year. Jesus christ

  • Good work (Score:4, Informative)

    by Arethan ( 223197 ) on Friday February 10, 2023 @02:47PM (#63282635) Journal

    Finally a timely and appropriate response. We have airspace classes and IFF transponders for this very reason.
    If you're in the wrong air space and don't squawk Friend (or anything at all), you're a foe. Bye bye.

    Also, here's the paywall bypass
    https://archive.is/bmDx0 [archive.is]

    • Finally a timely and appropriate response. We have airspace classes and IFF transponders for this very reason.
      If you're in the wrong air space and don't squawk Friend (or anything at all), you're a foe. Bye bye.

      Also, here's the paywall bypass
      https://archive.is/bmDx0 [archive.is]

      What paywall? The article works fine for me. The problem must be on your end.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

      Let's hope you never end up in a plane that lost power.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by irving47 ( 73147 )

        Well, the comment above kinda glossed over the process. I'm pretty sure they would normally scramble fighter jets and get visual ID on anything low enough to be a civilian plane.

        • It's the US military. There's definitely a flowchart for these kinds of situations so people don't fuck up and make the wrong decision.

    • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday February 10, 2023 @03:20PM (#63282771)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • We must assume it was aliens until further information comes to light :-P

      • Re:Good work (Score:5, Informative)

        by q4Fry ( 1322209 ) on Friday February 10, 2023 @04:55PM (#63283159)

        A little more has come in. [airandspaceforces.com]

        National Security Council spokesman John F. Kirby described the object as unmanned, based on observations from fighter pilots that scrambled to meet it, and said it was “roughly the size of a small car,” with no indication of any surveillance payload or self-propulsion capability.

        The object was flying at approximately 40,000 feet, Kirby said, presenting a danger to civilian air traffic and necessitating it be shot down. It was first detected in the evening of Feb. 9, and fighters scrambled to observe it, Kirby said. At least one more flight was sent the next morning, and the object was then shot down off the northeastern part of Alaska, Kirby said, landing on frozen waters in the Arctic Circle.

        • It was first detected in the evening of Feb. 9, and fighters scrambled to observe it, Kirby said. At least one more flight was sent the next morning, and the object was then shot down off the northeastern part of Alaska, Kirby said, landing on frozen waters in the Arctic Circle.

          Oh great. Just great. Now we've armed the polar bears.

      • How about a photograph of the damned thing? It's not rocket science to take a picture of something flying at 40,000 Ft. Especially from another aircraft.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by fermion ( 181285 )
      I think the problem has been pilots wanted to get on TV by interviewing about their other worldly citing. Given these UFOs are advanced scouts to see how venerable we are to invasion, the only response is to shoot first.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Xylantiel ( 177496 )
      Sorry but shooting down unidentified objects is stupid. That's how you start unnecessary wars or kill civilians. Objects need to be identified as a threat before lethal force is used on them. I hate that the vocal idiots can force risky decisions like this.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by q4Fry ( 1322209 )

        They've flown fighters around it for two days. It didn't identify itself, and the Pentagon hasn't identified it to the public, yet. But you bet your ass they've been identifying the thing.

    • Re:Good work (Score:5, Informative)

      by hey! ( 33014 ) on Friday February 10, 2023 @05:37PM (#63283273) Homepage Journal

      It wasn't widely reported, but the balloon that got shot down last week was actually shadowed by US U-2s at it crossed the country. Some would count that as a timely and appropriate response. It's a common counter intelligence tactic; when you identify a spy you don't necessarily snatch him right away, you try to figure out what he's up to.

  • toy supply chain issues (Score:5, Funny)

    by bugs2squash ( 1132591 ) on Friday February 10, 2023 @02:57PM (#63282677)
    I guess santa won't be coming home from his trip to get parts

  • Cue fake outrage in ... (Score:4, Funny)

    by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Friday February 10, 2023 @03:40PM (#63282861)

    Republicans will now complain that Biden shot it down too soon
    -- before they had time to complain that he didn't shoot it down sooner. :-)

    • So you're complaining about how the other team will complain. But you did it first, so... your team wins? Never been sure how you partisan folks keep score

      • So you're complaining about how the other team will complain.

        Just noting that they *will* complain no matter the situation. And, sure, that can be applied to both sides, but Republicans are clearly the way more whiny and hypocritical bunch.

      • Never been sure how you partisan folks keep score

        I didn't realise commenting on the absurd state of politics makes you a politician. What next, the USA loses the next world cup because I shout at my TV?

      • So you're complaining about how the other team will complain. But you did it first, so... your team wins? Never been sure how you partisan folks keep score

        Funny how rebuttals coming from this direction are often just incentives to silence the criticism. Not "they're right to do so", but "you're bad for mentioning it." Those are basically empty calories when compared to a rebuttal like: "They're right to complain about shooting first because [INSERT COMPELLING REASON HERE]."

  • Pentagon starts to arm Goodyear blimps (Score:3)

    by jfdavis668 ( 1414919 ) on Friday February 10, 2023 @04:23PM (#63283009)
    Begin, the balloon wars have.
  • The Canadian Goose Flock Embassy demands reparations. Meanwhilethe Eskimos thank the gods for the tasty debris.

  • And he we are. When an early 80's pop song is now our reality. We are living in the weirdest simulation yet.

    99 red balloons
    Floating in the summer sky
    Panic bells, it's red alert
    There's something here from somewhere else
    The war machine springs to life
    Opens up one eager eye
    Focusing it on the sky
    The 99 red balloons go by

    99 Decision Street
    99 ministers meet
    To worry, worry, super scurry
    Call the troops out in a hurry
    This is what we've waited for
    This is it boys, this is war
    The President is on the line
    As 99 red bal

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ffkom ( 3519199 )
      Indeed - who would have thought that silly pop singer "Nena" would be the one to provide the best long-term geostrategic prediction. BTW: The original German version of the text is way darker and more elaborate in its prediction of a 99 years long war...
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • The return of Starman was faster than expected, so we shot him down.

  • And they shot this one down! I'm thinking there will be a lot of mysteries soled when they figure out what this thing was!

  • I can see the headlines now...

    "Peace Ambassador from Alpheratz blown to smithereens by American missile" ...
    "Angry aliens pledge to supply North Korea with weapons technology to easily take over the world"

  • I predict that the new object actually *was* a weather balloon, maybe even an American one. I wonder if the agency who sent it up will have the courage to say so. Pentagon wants it kept quiet because incident A makes Biden look like a fool, and incident B will likely also make him look like a fool.

    To add insult to prevarication, they are claiming that this time it was over water, so ok to shoot down right away, forgetting that the first one spent a long time over Gulf of Alaska. Is anybody buying that bu

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