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Wikipedia

Russian Fines Wikipedia Over Military 'Misinformation' (reuters.com) 76

Posted by msmash from the when-in-Russia dept.
The Wikimedia Foundation was fined 2 million roubles ($27,000) by a Russian court on Tuesday after the authorities accused it of failing to delete "misinformation" about the Russian military from Wikipedia, the courts service said. From a report: Shortly after Russia invaded Ukraine last year, Russia introduced sweeping new laws restricting what people can report about the conflict, fining or blocking websites that spread information at odds with the Kremlin's official narrative. Wikimedia, which owns Wikipedia, was already fined last year after it failed to delete two articles related to the war, including one on "evaluations of Russia's 2022 invasion of Ukraine." The latest fine was imposed after the authorities accused Wikipedia of "spreading misinformation" in articles about Russian military units, Wikimedia Russia said.
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Russian Fines Wikipedia Over Military 'Misinformation' More

Russian Fines Wikipedia Over Military 'Misinformation'

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  • Expected Wikipedia response ... (Score:5, Funny)

    by UnknownSoldier ( 67820 ) on Tuesday February 28, 2023 @04:48PM (#63330969)

    [[citation]] /s

  • That's what liars do (Score:2, Redundant)

    by oblom ( 105 )

    The KGB-Mafia state is actively cutting all informational ties with the rest of the world. The ultimate goal is to disconnect from the global internet and create a tightly controlled russian segment of the network. The psychopaths in charge want to continue to gaslight russian populace into accepting alternative version of reality.

    • They are going to keep the channel to Tucker Carlson and FOX News alive though. Can't get a better, western useful idiot [wikipedia.org] than good [newsweek.com] old [theguardian.com] Tucker [independent.co.uk].

      • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

        by Pascoea ( 968200 )
        This is what qualifies as a "Troll" these days? (Post is at a "Score:0, Troll" as of now) I guess the mods are butthurt that Tucker and his ilk are being outed as exactly what we thought he was: nothing more than an actor willing to say whatever it takes, even if he knows it to be a lie, to get eyeballs. [theguardian.com]

        • There's also the Tucker Carlson defense. From the judge in a slander case against Fox: "Fox persuasively argues, that given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer 'arrive[s] with an appropriate amount of skepticism' about the statement he makes." In other words, he lies and everyone is expected to understand this.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by Pascoea ( 968200 )
            Don't take this as me supporting that assclown, but wasn't it Rachel Maddow's team that coined the "nobody would take us seriously" defense?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by q4Fry ( 1322209 )

      The KGB-Mafia state is actively cutting all informational ties with the rest of the world. The ultimate goal is to disconnect from the global internet and create a tightly controlled russian segment of the network. The psychopaths in charge want to continue to gaslight russian populace into accepting alternative version of reality.

      The objective is to make a really big North Korea?

    • The thing is, that battle is already lost.

      TV is for old people in Russia. That's the general sentiment among the young. They know that they're being bullshitted by state TV and they don't like it. What you have in support for government and its war is from the older (40+) population, with the young (-30) not only fearing that they could get drafted next but also having quite ready access to foreign information. If you think you have a "boomers" versus "millennials" situation here, you have no idea what's br

  • F*cking Totalitarians (Score:4, Insightful)

    by presidenteloco ( 659168 ) on Tuesday February 28, 2023 @04:51PM (#63330991)
    They can only conceive of wikipedia as another totalitarian organization like they are. The possibility that it's run by consensus and imany individual contributions doesn't even occur to their medieval minds.

    • They can only conceive of wikipedia as another totalitarian organization like they are. The possibility that it's run by consensus and imany individual contributions doesn't even occur to their medieval minds.

      Not just totalitarians, actual effing neo-Nazis. The Wagner group is named after Richard Wagner because of his Nazi association [wikipedia.org], and the founder has literal Nazi tattoos [romea.cz].

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • Nit pick: Wagner is an infamous antisemite, but he pre-existed the Nazi party, dying 40-50 years before its formation.

          The connection to the Wagner Group and its Nazi views is that Wagner was Hitler's favorite composer. (Wagner is famous for some extraordinarily dramatic operas, which, alas, despite the deep shittiness of the man himself and the fact Hitler agrees with me on this, are incredible pieces of music.)

          I think "Nazi association" is the proper phrasing to use. Richard Wagner was an antisemite, but the reason Wagner Group adopted him wasn't because of the antisemitism directly, it was because Wagner became associated with the Nazis.

          • Comment removed based on user account deletion

            • I disagree, because the OP's phrase "his Nazi association", which to most people would imply he was a member of the Nazi party, not that some Nazis liked him and therefore some might say he's kinda sorta "associated" with the Nazis. Associated is too strong a word, and even if it wasn't, in context it's being used in a phrase most commonly associated with claiming someone is a member of a group.

              I think it's accurate, his name is associated with the Nazis... but easily misunderstood, so I'll agree it should have been rephrased for clarity.

            • I disagree, because the OP's phrase "his Nazi association", which to most people would imply he was a member of the Nazi party, not that some Nazis liked him and therefore some might say he's kinda sorta "associated" with the Nazis. Associated is too strong a word, and even if it wasn't, in context it's being used in a phrase most commonly associated with claiming someone is a member of a group.

              I associate with associations of associates. Wrap your mind around that one. /head explosion gesture...and a grin

    • Russia is not totalitarian, their leaders have started cosplaying a totalitarian state after the fuckup in Ukraine, but have no real ideology behind them. It is an authoritarian cleptocratic shithole. Even the Soviets stopped been totalitarian after Stalin's death and in a truly totalitarian system the whole russian elite starting with Putin would have been executed long ago.

  • Common tactic from liars (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Is it even surprising that people who want to shut down discussions without making an argument are all notorious liars? People who are telling the truth can just back up their story with facts and explain how things work instead of needing to shut down uncomfortable discussions before people start thinking unapproved ideas.

  • Russian censorship, go fuck yourself!

  • Whack-A-Tube (Score:4, Funny)

    by geekmux ( 1040042 ) on Tuesday February 28, 2023 @05:00PM (#63331017)

    Go get 'em Russia. I'm certain once you silence Wikipedia that'll be the end of that.

    Nah. Why would anyone else be talking about this? You're only a nuclear superpower recently removed from nuclear treaties engaged in ground warfare with another country, ready to perhaps get this conflict over with once you tire of the perceived weakness.

    Wiki. Odin and done.

    (Meanwhile, in America)

    Dude, have you seen that Netflix murder thing? Hit YT, that dude's on trial like live n' shit...

    • Go get 'em Russia. I'm certain once you silence Wikipedia that'll be the end of that.

      ...

      What never seems to sink into the minds of the obsessive (because obviously intelligence doesn't factor in) is that bringing something to light and saying it needs to disappear makes MANY more aware of, and interested in, actually taking interest in it.

      So is he trying to prove his own BS or making a mockery of America (er, free countries in general) by suing for frivolous and absolutely pointless and self-destructive reasons (but not enough to hurt)? Real question here!

  • Would Russia blocking Wikipedia harm Putin? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Khopesh ( 112447 ) on Tuesday February 28, 2023 @05:03PM (#63331027) Homepage Journal

    If Wikipedia ignores this, the only consequence I can think of is that Russia either blocks the site or MitM [wikipedia.org]s it to serve filtered versions of the pages in question, which people would presumably notice (given the obvious SSL downgrade attack [wikipedia.org] or invalid SSL cert ... unless Russia has its own root CA [wikipedia.org] to sign it with).

    I wonder what the consequence would be of either of those approaches. Putin is already unpopular with those who don't take the biased news they're fed and the cracks are showing even among those that do (remember all of those traffic jams at the borders when he announced a new draft?). Could losing Wikipedia be the straw that breaks this camel's back?

    Then there's the consequence of letting the fine go unpaid. What message does Russia not collecting its debts send to the world?

    • Re:Would Russia blocking Wikipedia harm Putin? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 28, 2023 @05:20PM (#63331077)

      which people would presumably notice (given the obvious SSL downgrade attack [wikipedia.org] or invalid SSL cert ... unless Russia has its own root CA [wikipedia.org] to sign it with).

      Funny story that.
      Since the start of the embargos, no CA has renewed any certificates for Russia based companies or government entities.
      Their servers have been throwing SSL errors for some time now.

      Russia did start up their own CA after this, but it is not trusted in any browsers.
      A user must install their root certificate manually.

      Since their citizens have been "trained" to click through certificate warnings for a year now, the chances of a forged certificate being detected are extremely low.
      Anyone using the Russian CA is already vulnerable to interception and rewritten data for any website the government chooses to MitM.

      As it is a given no one, including wikimedia, is going to pay any fine (depending, it may be illegal to do so), the ground work to do this is already laid out.

    • So long as there is a Russian branch of Wikimedia they can seize its assets and imprison its employees. I was a bit surprised by the mention of Wikimedia Russia, I thought they had pulled out already.

  • Russian military training includes a lengthy exercise where each officer is expected to demonstrate to his commander, the proper procedure for fucking a sheep.

  • In future related news ... (Score:5, Funny)

    by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Tuesday February 28, 2023 @05:18PM (#63331073)

    Russia invades Wikimedia, loses there too.

    • I actually noticed a considerable drop in bullshit posts on Twitter and Facebook during the past year. I guess the posters have been drafted.

  • Hoping Wikipedia lets Russian editors change pages, then lets Ukrainian editors roll them back. :-)

  • "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist...."

  • ... our western "misinformation" warriors are like the Russians in this regard.

    In related news, apparently it's okay this week to say that covid came from a lab leak! Seems like 5 minutes ago that was "misinformation" that had to be kept off social media by any means necessary. And it wasn't Russians doing that.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Pascoea ( 968200 )
      That statement is barely one step above "speculative", so there's still that. The Energy Department used the term "Low Confidence" to describe their findings. That doesn't inspire a lot of, well, confidence.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sfcat ( 872532 )
        True, but it also means that there is even less confidence that it came from an animal outside of a lab. That's pretty big considering it started out as only crazy people think it came from a lab and they should be banned/cancelled. I can only think of a few political issues in my lifetime where the Overton window in the US moved so quickly (gay marriage is the other one that comes to mind).
      • Yet the FBI has been saying the same thing as they carry out their investigation.

        I find it suspicious that those who shout the loudest against the lab-leak theory either have a vested interest in it not being seen as a leak, or are basing their analysis on data provided by those with the aforementioned interest.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by Pascoea ( 968200 )

          Yes they have been saying pretty much the exact same thing: "most likely a potential lab incident". FBI's actual words. Still not inspiring a lot of confidence.

          And before you say it, I have absolutely no vested interest in whether COVID originates as lab leak or a "natural" method. Even if they were able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it originated via a lab leak, so what? Do you honestly think we'd ever see a red cent of compensation from China? Are we going to go to war with them over it? Not a

      • That's old news. the FBI now says "likely"
        https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/28/politics/wray-fbi-covid-origins-lab-china/index.html

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Pascoea ( 968200 )
          The FBI actually said "most likely a potential lab incident". Still not inspiring a lot of confidence.

    • yeah, there's word that China could possibly start selling weapons to Russia for the war in Ukraine, and next thing you know, oh hey, a couple of our intelligence agencies might have just figured out where covid came from. I think these official statements have more to do with our relationship with China than it does with the Jim nobody voter. It's politics all the ways down.

  • My Head Hurt (Score:3)

    by lsllll ( 830002 ) on Tuesday February 28, 2023 @05:56PM (#63331173)
    My head hurt reading that heading and couldn't get past it. Was it referencing one Russian person? Is "Russian" an adjective here and we're missing the noun? The "n" somehow squeeze itself to modify "Russia"? Damn. I'm lost. Perhaps had I read the first couple sentences of TFS I wouldn't have to drink myself into oblivion tonight. Yes another excuse to start drinking now ...

  • Russian Fines Wikipedia Over Military 'Misinformation'

    Perhaps it was meant to read Russian Court Fines?

  • Do they think they have a monopoly on that or why?

    • Do they think they have a monopoly on that or why?

      They have always, and always will, have a monopoly on that. [insert Cyrillic wise-man-said BS here]

      I MitM'd that for ya.

  • I'm curious what effect the decision of a Russian court can have. Russian courts only have jurisdiction within Russia. Their decisions are only enforceable outside of Russia if the courts of other countries recognize them. Since this kind of censorship is impermissible in many countries including the US, their courts will not enforce the Russian court's ruling. The effect is therefore presumably limited to the Russian Wikipedia entity.

    • Re:effect of Russian decision (Score:5, Informative)

      by xaosflux ( 917784 ) on Tuesday February 28, 2023 @06:27PM (#63331287) Homepage

      The "Russian Wikipedia" is just an edition of Wikipedia written in Russian, it is not the Wikipedia "of Russia" any more than the English Wikipedia is the Wikipedia "of England".

      • The WMF (Wikimedia Foundation) has local chapters in each country, and there is one in Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] This entity could be fined, which would be a way for Russia to close it since the local org certainly won't have any funds to pay the fine.

        Anyway TFS says the fine applies to the WMF, which is headquartered in San Francisco.

        • And WMF won't (well, shouldn't) pay, so Russia will go after the domestic subsidiary. So long as it exists and has assets anyhow. That could be rectified.

      • The "Russian Wikipedia" is just an edition of Wikipedia written in Russian, it is not the Wikipedia "of Russia" any more than the English Wikipedia is the Wikipedia "of England".

        I thought the Russian version of Wikipedia was one single page. And that page says all you need to know. Ever.

  • good luck collecting, Ivan.

  • Much like the US and UK, I see Julian Assange is still in jail.

  • In Soviet Russia we delete you!

  • It's just the court of Little King Vladdy-pooh.

    • It's just the court of Little King Vladdy-pooh.

      Xi is Pooh, Vlad is Eeyore. Look at any picture of them together and tell me that is not true.

  • The Russian people have agency. They always did. (Score:5, Informative)

    by couchslug ( 175151 ) on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @01:53AM (#63331973)

    Russia is an enemy of secular democracy and freedom in all its forms past and present. Putin is a symptom, not a cause. The Russian population strongly support the invasion of their neighbors which is why they eagerly executed those invasions past and present.

    Dissenters exist but most who leave are just trying to dodge participation. Lenin, Stalin etc on to Putin didn't shoot anyone. They gave the general orders their population eagerly carried out. The Russian people have agency and it is ordinary Russians who bomb, shoot, murder, rape, de-house, traumatize etc their Ukrainian victims yet again as if Holomodor was not enough.

    As eastern Europe from Finland south found out the hard way there is no benign version of Russia. The Russian people are who drive the few decent Russians into exile, or Novichok, imprison, beat and otherwise effectively smother every attempt at reform. Russia today is as it was throughout its past, a menace to Europe and the world. Putin is merely reminding what everyone should never forget in the first place.

    Nuclear war being inconvenient for all concerned Russia like the Soviet Union must be contained and prevented from again metastasizing. Previous victims of Russia like Poland, the Baltics etc understand this by bloody experience but the further afield one goes the easier it is to deny for ideological reasons or plain stupidity.

    That Sweden and Finland want to join NATO is telling for even they now understand there is no hope for reforming Russia. There is hope for containing it while its own actions solve the Russian demographic problem and its racist policies alienate its oppressed minorities Moscow use as cannon fodder. The reason so many dead don't look like typical Muscovites is they are not. Peoples far to the east have no conflict with Ukraine and the first and last contact many have is dying on the field of battle for Putin's lies. Some will inevitably take offense.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/feat... [aljazeera.com]

  • Wikipedia IS loaded with misinformation. Anything political or sociological is suspect. But really, Russia fining Wikipedia for misinformation is a pot meets kettle moment.
  • he is just the umpteenth nationalist puppet, happy to be one, replaceable if necessary, self-centered and megalomaniacal, like any other para-democratic nationalist ruler; obviously the dictatorial ones are even worse, and Putin is somewhere in between democratic and dictatorial (given the trend of elections in Russia). the royalist ones no longer exist since the end of the second world war (either they are fake or they have become dictators, in the sense they have always been)... but be careful, this puppe

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