Silicon Valley Hit With Widespread Power Outages After Storm (bloomberg.com) 80
Large swaths of California's tech hub Silicon Valley remained without electricity after the latest atmospheric river brought heavy rain and high winds that toppled power lines. From a report: Almost one-third of the homes and businesses in Santa Clara County -- home to tech giants including Apple Inc. and Alphabet's Google -- were without power as of Wednesday morning, according to PowerOutage.us. More than 180,000 customers in the San Francisco Bay Area were blacked out as of 10 a.m. local time. PG&E, the utility that serves most customers in the region, said the storm was stronger than forecast and resulted in hundreds of trees or limbs striking power equipment and disrupting electricity service. The utility has sent additional crews into the hardest-hit areas.
Of course! (Score:3, Insightful)
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Well their power grid is so reliable that in 12 years they are going to have 100% new electric vehicles only.
Reliability and capacity are two different issues.
California already has the generating capacity for EVs.
EVs don't require a reliable grid. My EV has a range of 240 miles. My daily driving is 20 miles. So as long as the grid is back within 12 days, I'm fine. Otherwise, I can charge at work.
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Re:Of course! (Score:5, Insightful)
No they are making gasoline powered generators not legal to sell in 2028. Diesel and propane generators are not affected.
Their reasoning is because a gasoline generator run for an hour generates the same amount of pollution driving 300 miles in a Toyota Camry.
Just like how California mandated better automobile emissions. The manufacturers bitched and moaned and yet somehow as if by magic cars got more efficient.
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Well, then I really hope their power isn't out for very long.
When hurricane Ida knocked down major transmission lines to New Orleans and surrounding cities, power was out for well over a month for many areas....and the area was dependent upon people being able to readily drive out and in carrying gasoline to run those generators that many depended upon in the middle of summer to keep fo
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Oh shut up with your fear mongering. Florida of all places has mandates for home backup generators to be propane powered because of the flooding.
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Government mandates? That's Ron DeSocialist for you!
Re:Of course! (Score:4, Insightful)
Not everyone has, nor can afford a permanent home generator attached to the house....
Lots of folks rent too and have to do the cheaper portable ones.
And it's not fear mongering.
I was simply relating a real life example that happened only a couple years ago...real life pal.
And...no matter where you live in the US, you pretty much are at risk for some type of catastrophic event which will knock out power, potentially for an extended period of time.
Where I live...hurricanes. Where you live...well, something.
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I have it on good authority that no one really cares about renters except the landlords, and only to the extend they pay their rent on time.
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Hm well not intending this to sound horrible but why should landlords care about their renters beyond their contractual and legal obligations?
Should renters care about landlords beyond their contractual and legal obligations?
Renters who don't like their place should leave. That's the one huge benefit of being a renter. You can just go.
When I rented I adhered to my contract and no more. I would -never- be a landlord because who wants to deal with renters?
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Florida of all places has mandates for home backup generators to be propane powered because of the flooding.
You're conflating permanent backup generator installations with the typical sort of portable generators sold at hardware stores. Florida has no plans to regulate gasoline-powered portable generators, and even "portable" is a bit of a misnomer as some of them can be quite large.
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Yes, that's the other problem with gasoline. You can't store it onsite because it breaks down, so it's not a good fuel to keep on hand for emergencies. Same with diesel. So you're forced to find a working gas pump in an emergency.
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But fortunately, gasoline is readily found and transported from just outside an emergency zone, like we had to do after Hurricane IDA for example....not so simple to do with propane and diesel, as mentioned is harder to find than gas.
And when emergency hits...usually gasoline tan
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And, to your point, sunlight is even easier to get, and distributed widely.
At the point where we can charge houses with electric vehicles, even easier to transport, since the transport *is* the energy storage mechanism, and then you can go to wherever there is energy having been harvested/stored, and use that. If you have two cars (or have a friendly cooperative neighbor), you can have one available to you, and one charging elsewhere during such events.
I wish we were moving faster in this direction.
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oof - you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. :/
Feel free to see how "easy to get" sunlight is over the course of a 5-day blizzard. Panels work great under 6' of snow, right?
CA runs across practically the entire latitude of the USA, and contains immensely varied terrain including an awful lot of mountains. (psst - it also has people who live in apartments - some of whom don't even drive Teslas! Incredible, but true).
Each sentence of your post made my eyes roll even harder than the one before
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I read that if you're out in the sun for an hour it will disable your Covid chips.
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I'm guessing you are not really familiar with the da
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Add some fuel stabilizer and gasoline can last for several years.
Re: Of course! (Score:2)
Yeah Star Tron baby!
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You can't use kerosene in most diesel generators, it has too little lubricity and also burns too hot. It works in some old military multifuel units. However, you can keep diesel (the petro kind anyway) for a long time if you use a dewatering agent and a biocide.
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Yes, that's the other problem with gasoline. You can't store it onsite because it breaks down, so it's not a good fuel to keep on hand for emergencies.
It depends on whether you're dealing with expected or unexpected outages. In Florida, storms come with significant advance notice, allowing time to stock up on gas. If it turns out you didn't need the gas for a generator, it can be "disposed" of by using it in your vehicles.
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I saw a ton of those generators on auction sites going for $300 or so. Should have picked one up but didn’t have the means to haul it. They were practically new with 10 hours of run time. National Guard surplus.
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Under the California law, you can still run the gasoline-powered generator you own. You can still buy generators that run on propane, dies
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You can still buy portable gasoline-powered generators over 25 HP.
Except that gasoline-powered generators that big don't really exist in practice. A 25 HP generator would probably produce about 18 KW of power. The largest generators sold in most stores (Lowe's, Home Depot, etc.) are only about 12.5 KW when run with gasoline, with about a 16 HP engine. They deliberately chose that size to eliminate approximately everything on the market.
Larger gasoline-powered generators do at least theoretically exist; Generac claims to make them. But if my experience trying to get wh
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Runtime isn't even the biggest problem. You know what causes 100% of the power outages in the Sierra Nevada? Snow.
I'm no mechie, but I'm pretty sure a diesel generator isn't going to be much good to me when it's 0F outside.
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Just like how California mandated better automobile emissions. The manufacturers bitched and moaned and yet somehow as if by magic cars got more efficient.
Emission standards did not make cars more efficient. They made gas and catalytic converters more expensive in California. Cars got more efficient because the technology improved.
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The technology was pretty stagnant in the US until cheaper more efficient Japanese cars zoomed up in the market. Before competition the auto makers were pretty lax. Even after this improvement in cars the market for fuel efficient cards still stagnated a bit, and even today the auto makers focus too much on the SUVs and big pickups, gas guzzlers, because the profits are biggest on those. Cars really only get efficient when the market demands efficiency.
Probably the smartest thing Tesla did was make their
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Re:Of course! (Score:5, Insightful)
No, they plan on restricting sales of gasoline backup generators by 2028. Diesel and propane generators will still be legal to sell. Only gasoline powered generators are being targeted because they produce far greater emissions than diesel or propane.
Re: Of course! (Score:1)
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The sales ban only covers the small, under 25 HP, portable generators, anyway, so that's not it.
I've never seen a large stationary generator that runs on gasoline. I've seen plenty that run on diesel and almost as many that run on natural gas.
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Diesel is much more dirty than gasoline.
Only if your diesel generator is from 15+ years ago, in which case it would be completely unaffected by legislation to ban sales of new generators.
Modern diesel generators are much cleaner, and more environmentally friendly on nearly every metric than modern gasoline generators. They are beaten only by gas generators like propane or natgas powered ones, but even then diesel beats them in CO2 emissions too.
The only reason gasoline generators still exist is because people insist on buying the cheapest crap th
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Only portable gasoline generators under 25 HP, to be more specific.
That's basically equivalent to saying "gasoline generators". There are a very, very few portable gasoline generators with larger engines than that, and they're all special-order products that aren't available in most stores. The largest generators you can buy off-the-shelf have roughly 16 HP engines.
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This is the same California that wants to make it illegal to sell backup generators... right?
Yes. It is also the same California that wants to make it illegal to have natural gas service to homes and businesses.
Oh, and we can include New York and so many other states in this. There's a storm out on the East coast at this time too causing issues there.
I'm used to power outages from living on a dairy farm in the Midwest USA. I still saw power outages after moving off the family farm into a suburban home. I even recall a power outage while attending university, apparently an underground transforme
Re:Of course! (Score:4, Informative)
It's not so serious here as some imply. Nobody is going to freeze in Silicon Valley, we don't need warming centers. We have not reverted yet to cannabilism.
Part of the reason for many rules in California are historical - remember LA smog was the joke of the world (except in Beijing and Mexico City). But the smog has gone away. There's clear air most days (except for wildfires). This would _not_ have happened without regulations. I know the word "regulation" gives some people hives, but the pollution problem would never have been addressed if it were left to the free market to handle on its own.
Also, we have natural gas heaters in California, and biomass heaters, and plenty of fireplaces (though we also have no-burn days to reduce particulates in the air). In the city though many of these are impractical; what works when you're in a small town or farm isn't the right solution for a city.
Many of the problems here are business oriented, not from regulation or government. Too many power lines above ground; more vulnerable to outages and more vulnerable to starting wildfires, and that's the utility's own problems as they don't want to cut into profits by burying the lines.
What you see here is just more anti-California schadenfreude, people will start tweeting "told you so!" before they even read past the headline and see the reasons. Just like when Texas has some problems we all revert to schadenfreude at their naivete as well.
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I remember LA smog. The burn. I suspect it caused or contributed to my asthma.
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Too many power lines above ground; more vulnerable to outages and more vulnerable to starting wildfires, and that's the utility's own problems as they don't want to cut into profits by burying the lines.
No, it's everybody's problem. Trust me, when you get evac'd from those fires, and the smoke stretches out over the *entire length* of the country, it's everybody's problem.
Not burying cables along side the *residential* streets is prime 100% USAian stupid. Storms cause hundreds of downs here every year. They take 6-8hr each to repair, in conditions that would leave you with wet trousers in seconds. Overtime alone must add up to more than re-siting those somewhere sane, i.e. underground.
No other country in t
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I mean the "problem" here is who created the mess, and the owner of that problem are the utilities, even if others suffer the consequences.
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Every heat pump will have some kind of backup heat that burns something.
Probably has more to do with an air-source heat pumps becoming less efficient at the kinds of temperatures that aren't uncommon in a Midwest winter. Some installations will be backed up by an electric heating element, but gas is a lot cheaper.
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Not exactly. They're making it illegal to sell gasoline-powered portable back-up generators under 25 HP. Large or stationary emergency generators and small portable propane, or diesel generators will still be legal to purchase. Allowing propane and natural gas generators seems consistent, they're cleaner than gasoline, but having an exemption for diesel makes no sense to me.
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This is the same California that wants to make it illegal to sell backup generators... right?
No, only the type of generators you shouldn't be using in an emergency and should be in your prepping kit. Propane generators are fine, as are diesel if you insist on having the downsides of a fuel source you can't obtain while a power is out.
Is this news? (Score:5, Insightful)
Storm takes out power lines. Recovery takes finite time. Does this merit international headlines?
Re:Is this news? (Score:4, Insightful)
God is punishing California for having a global scale economy based on liberal policy and strong worker's rights?
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It also doesn't hurt that much of CA has a favorable climate, so those who are living on the street do not have to worry about freezing to death 3 months out of the year.
I guess CA could use that money and just bus them all to Texas.
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I guess CA could use that money and just bus them all to Texas.
Speaking of which, around 20% of them were bussed in...
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Calfornia population is huge. Look at per-capita amount rather than raw numbers. Perception is a problem too - some states and cities deliberately hide the homeless. I guarantee you there are homeless in Dallas and Des Moine and Miami. Also California is easier to be homeless in because it's warmer, you're less likely to die overnight by sleeping outside.
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God is punishing California for having a global scale economy based on liberal policy and strong worker's rights?
God didn't cause these idiots to dispense with fossil fuels, nuclear fission power plants, and hydroelectric dams. Their over reliance on intermittent wind and solar power, poor planning on an electrical grid, and so many other poorly made decisions are coming to bite them in the ass. This is just just plain cause and effect.
Power is going to be out a few hours up to maybe two days for some people. The problem was mostly power lines falling down due to the wind. What do any of the problems you mentioned have to do with neighborhood power lines falling down? Yes, the local power grid could have been improved, but at a cost that might or might not be prudent given the probability of power outage and the relatively mild outage period.
What are the main problems resulting from the power outage? Some people who have medical needs
strong worker's rights? (Score:2)
Not strong worker's rights for Uber and Lyft "contractors".
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This outage has 0 to do with solor or wind. That's just a stupid idea. The electrical grid is the way it is purely because of the utilities, not the government. The biggest problem the government had was being too hands off in the past, when it was much more fiscally conservative, and too trusting of utilities to do the right thing. The problems were not created by over-regulation as many conservative pundits like to claim without proof, and the improvements have come about due to regulations and enforce
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Yes, extremes are bad, regardless of which extreme.
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And what state are you from?
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Storm takes out power lines. Recovery takes finite time. Does this merit international headlines?
In a 3rd world country, no.
Paywall (Score:2)
How about a paywall-free link?
It is not a power outage! (Score:2)
Cables in trees (Score:1)
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Whose bright idea was it to dangle electricity supply cables in, through, & around trees?
More likely, the trees grew after the power cables were installed.
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They should have been buried in the first place but around here some are not so they're out there cutting tree branches regularly which I'm guessing is more expensive over time than doing it right in the first place but fits nicely into the monthly opex budget whereas the one time up front cost of burying did not.
But wait!! (Score:2)
Don't they all drive electric cars and have household battery backups to keep the power going?
Solar plus battery for the win (Score:2)
I have a relative who lives in San Jose. I convinced her to get solar panels and backup batteries for her house, and now she's glad she has them.
Yesterday, her dryer stopped working. She asked her handyman friend to figure out what was wrong, and the answer was: you are in a power failure and you didn't realize it!
She has a solar power system sized to meet 105% of her needs (based on her last few years of power usage), plus a couple of 10 kWh backup batteries. As is common practice, her main electrical p
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Sure, if you've got the money. I don't know if I'd call it a "win", but the wood stove kept me warm and if I don't open my freezer it will keep for 3 days. This was battle-tested during the week long "PSPS" (Public Safety Power Shut-off). After day 3, you need to put dry ice in your freezer. It's "expensive" but nowhere near solar+generator when you consider how seldom this happens.
The refrigerator was the weak link. It can't stay cold as long as the freezer. Fortunately the last run was due to snow,
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I'm glad that with simple ingenuity you were able to get by. My relative is rather older than you are, and really not in a place where she can do all that, and Silicon Valley isn't really known for snow.
Also, that dry ice trick is a good one-- I already knew it-- but if there is a massive, widespread power outage you just might drive over to the store and find they are fresh out of dry ice due to the other people who know that trick.
As I said, her monthly payment is low enough and the cost of electricity w
Silicon Valley is sure having bad times. (Score:2)
Layoffs, bank, power outages, etc. :(
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Layoffs, bank, power outages, etc. :(
Yeah...what's next? Rampant crime in the streets? Tax-paying State residents leaving in droves (if they can)? Oh wait.