Driverless Bus Service To Start In Scotland In 'World First' (bbc.com) 63
Full-size, self-driving bus services will begin in Scotland next month in what is believed to be a world first. The BBC reports: Stagecoach said the route over the Forth Road Bridge would launch on May 15. The 14-mile route will run between Ferrytoll park and ride in Fife and Edinburgh Park train and tram interchange. Five single-decker autonomous buses will have the capacity for about 10,000 passenger journeys per week.
The vehicles have sensors enabling them to travel on pre-selected roads at up to 50mph. They will have two members of staff on board. A safety driver will sit in the driver's seat to monitor the technology, and a so-called bus captain will help passengers with boarding, buying tickets and queries. The UK government said Project CAVForth would be the world's first full-size, self-driving public bus service.
The vehicles have sensors enabling them to travel on pre-selected roads at up to 50mph. They will have two members of staff on board. A safety driver will sit in the driver's seat to monitor the technology, and a so-called bus captain will help passengers with boarding, buying tickets and queries. The UK government said Project CAVForth would be the world's first full-size, self-driving public bus service.
The world's "first" (Score:5, Informative)
In this case the first part is the size of the bus, not the fact that a self driving bus picks up and drops off passengers on a pre-designated route.
No where near as exciting as it sounds. There have been smaller self-driving buses in Perth since 2016.
Re:The world's "first" (Score:4, Informative)
There have been smaller self-driving buses in Perth since 2016.
Perth is a famous historic city in Scotland, not far from Edinburg, where the above service runs.
But I have a feeling you are referring to a different Perth.
https://rac.com.au/about-rac/a... [rac.com.au]
That one is a bit of a gimmick, but at least it does not have a "safety driver".
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Uber's system was insufficiently paranoid, and it had a key safety feature disabled.
Re: The world's "first" (Score:2)
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So no worse than a normal car then?
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Perth is a famous historic city in Scotland
Calling a place with a population under 50k a city is a huge stretch of the imagination. Small town at best, and yes I was talking about the 2million population strong actual worth of the name "city" in Australia. :-)
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While in general a city is just a large town, in some places the words ’city’ and ‘town’ have specific legal meanings. In New England, for example, a city is a municipality that has grown too large to be conveniently governed by a town meeting. There are many cities with populations below 50,000 and some few cities below 20,000.
Don’t assume that you know the usage of words worldwide based on your own experience.
Re:The world's "first" (Score:4, Informative)
In this case the first part is the size of the bus, not the fact that a self driving bus picks up and drops off passengers on a pre-designated route.
No where near as exciting as it sounds. There have been smaller self-driving buses in Perth since 2016.
Full size driverless bus trial 2021 in Malaga https://www.theguardian.com/wo... [theguardian.com]
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Did you ask about time crystals and perpetual mobile machines, or is your name just similar? Just saw a message about that a few hours ago, but the conersation was locked.
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The other thing is the speed of the bus. Nobody has done 80km/h in a heavy self-driving vehicle on real roads before.
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So... (Score:3)
A safety driver will sit in the driver's seat to monitor the technology, and a so-called bus captain will help passengers with boarding, buying tickets and queries.
So not driverless at all. Self-driving perhaps.
In any case if this is the norm, it's nice to see that artificial intelligence won't destroy jobs in reality, but rather will duplicate them.
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In any case if this is the norm, it's nice to see that artificial intelligence won't destroy jobs in reality, but rather will duplicate them.
This, rather obviously, is a pilot phase. In a few years that safety driver will obviously be gone if the tech works out. At the moment that driver is mostly there for show and if the bus decides it cannot go on by itself.
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So not driverless at all. Self-driving perhaps.
In any case if this is the norm, it's nice to see that artificial intelligence won't destroy jobs in reality, but rather will duplicate them.
Even better - it has created employment by doubling the the number of humans involved!
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it's nice to see that artificial intelligence won't destroy jobs in reality, but rather will duplicate them.
I remember reading a quote by someone talking about how accounting used to be done in the 50s. In reply to the fear of computers being able to do calculations putting out of work the rows and rows of people tallying ledgers manually they pointed to the fact that computers were mammoth machines which required many people to perform data entry and interpret results and also said that introducing computers to the accounting world would simply result in duplicating jobs.
The reality was obviously very different.
Driverless but not staffless... (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, I remember this from Copenhagen over 10+ years ago. They tested that there, worked fine, don't know why it stopped.
But back then they had staff in the bus too, so it kinda defeated the purpose.
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Wake me up when they invent muggerless muggings. Or stabberless stabbings. Then we can discuss the staff infection.
Re:Driverless but not staffless... (Score:4, Funny)
Stabberless stabbings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Muggerless muggings are fundamentally impossible, because it is only a mugging if somebody takes things.
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Muggerless muggings are fundamentally impossible, because it is only a mugging if somebody takes things.
A wave knocked me over and stole my shorts once. Fun times at the beach. Luckily, it was three mile beach, and not seacliff or something.
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Ok, I think I will accept that ;-)
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Death & Taxes.
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A security guard is cheaper and better equipped to handle dangerous passengers than a driver, who BTW is busy driving.
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Don't worry. Johnny Cab can be both.
Johnny Bus?
Re: Driverless but not staffless... (Score:2)
But will it still be voiced by Robert Picardo and whistle the Norwegian national anthem when it's bored?
Uses more people, not fewer. (Score:3)
They will have two members of staff on board. A safety driver will sit in the driver's seat to monitor the technology, and a so-called bus captain will help passengers with boarding, buying tickets and queries
Most buses in the UK only employ one individual, who takes the fares when the bus is at a stop and then drives it when all the passengers are on board. So it seems that this "driverless" bus will actually need more people to run it, than a normal service.
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The *correct* way to operate a self-driving car is for one person to constantly monitor the self-driving system and call out status (similar to pilots during takeoff). That is the driver monitoring will look at conditions such as any vehicles that might cro
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Why bother with the expensive computers and such, then?
Just have 2 human drivers. One drives, the other nags them like some old married couple.
Employs the same 2 people, costs less without all the computer junk, and safer because they're saying they can't trust the computer to such an extent that a human had to baby sit. How is a computer safer than the person who has over ride? The baby sitter by definition should be smarter than the baby.
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Self driving vehicles seem pointless if you still need a driver.
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Obviously.
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Right after those buses are cold fusion powered.
I estimate that is only about 10 years away.
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Hard not to notice that, but I'm guessing the plan is to remove the "safety captain" (really?) soon and the "safety driver" eventually.
And there is the human factor. I can imagine occasional mayhem in a bus full of people with no supervision. People making hella messes, assaults physical and sexual. A bus driver is an authority on a bus, the "Don't make me get out of my chair!" person.
People respond to that sort of thing, even though year, might be 50 people and one driver, they do.
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They will have CCTV with someone back at HQ watching several buses at once. Probably a PA system and remote control of the bus if necessary.
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They will have CCTV with someone back at HQ watching several buses at once. Probably a PA system and remote control of the bus if necessary.
So now we have a bus with a driver. Then a driver and an assistant. Next there will be three people.
It is apparently the actual goal is to hire more people? And what are the legalities if someone misses something - A place with 10 buses and ten drivers ends up having to employ 20 more people.
Because I'm not seeing the value here when this self driving bus ends up creating jobs, and not eliminating them.
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THis is, rather obviously, the set-up for a test-phase. You have no point.
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So it seems that this "driverless" bus will actually need more people to run it, than a normal service.
In many cases a person is used as a transition to get people comfortable with the fact that a person generally has less and less involvement in the process.
The "more people" running it are temporary.
Bus error (Score:5, Funny)
passengers dumped
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"Bus flattens baby carriage ERROR -9! Please report to your local systems administrator and reboot if problem persists."
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Mount a scratch passenger
Re: Bus error (Score:2)
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The gap between the carriageways is mostly filled by the support cables. There's some ironmongery there too, but since it has been horizontal slee
Re: Bus error (Score:2)
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I was under the impression that the rate of snapping of the main support cable strands was such that they were going to be losing structural weight as fast as possible. Which would sti
World first? (Score:2)
Not sure, but I think when I as a child and school pupil I was in many driver less busses ...
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You were a young hooligan, too? Yeah we broke into a few in the bus parking lot over the weekend but stopped because it wasn't as exciting as we thought.
driveless can't do stay over 50 at any cost! (Score:2)
driveless can't do stay over 50 at any cost!
Re: driveless can't do stay over 50 at any cost! (Score:2)
Why two staffers are chosen over one (Score:2)
A driver certified to operate a vehicle with passengers requires more training and testing than a driver certified to operate a vehicle of the same size but empty. The safety driver only needs move the bus if they throw all the passengers off, therefore the safety driver is cheaper than a regular driver. The bus captain needs no driving certification at all.
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I really hope you're trolling, because otherwise you're fucking scarily stupid
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A driver certified to operate a vehicle with passengers requires more training and testing than a driver certified to operate a vehicle of the same size but empty.
Maybe where you are, I don't know the law everywhere. But AFAIK most places a bus requires a commercial license any time it's operated commercially, which is true even if it's empty — as long as someone's being paid to drive it. And none of that applies to a safety driver, who is legally the same as an actual driver. The idea is that they step in if needed, so there will be passengers on the bus.
The bus captain needs no driving certification at all.
That's true. And in the long run, they won't need a safety driver, just a bus "captain". The bus can be ope
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" a bus requires a commercial license any time it's operated commercially"
Yes, there is a CDL class requirement based on the size of the vehicle, but then a passenger endorsement on top of that. (There can even be a separate endorsement for a school bus.) For example, in current systems if your mechanics have CDLs without the passenger endorsement they can drive a replacement bus out when a breakdown occurs and swap with the waiting driver but they can't pick up anyone along the way.
"so there will be passe
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The bus captain takes everyone off the bus to get the next automated bus on that route while the safety driver gets the current vehicle off the road or back to the garage.
You're assuming the only case in which a bus will need a driver is if it's broken down, but the bus doesn't need a driver if it's broken down, as it cannot be driven. The bus needs a driver only when the automation fails.
It's normal (Score:2)
After Brexit, it's either driver-less buses, or NO buses.
Have Mercy (Score:2)
Been Waitin For the Bus All Day
The long view (Score:2)
One day this will be regarded as little more than a horizontal elevator.
self driving bus with 2 drivers (Score:2)
So, the new self driving bus is able to replace the driver with 2 drivers. I am very impressed. This is a great labor-saving device.
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2. This bus never drops below 4% occupancy
3. Profit !
Worst of Both worlds (Score:2)
Why can't the staff drive the bus?
This way you're paying 2 people, installing an expensive expert system, AND taking on all the additional risks of Self driving technology.
Scotland sounds like it is literally losing the fucking plot these days
Predicted headline (Score:2)