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United States Earth

As Sea Levels Rise, the East Coast is Also Sinking (arstechnica.com) 131

Climate scientists already know that the East Coast of the United States could see around a foot of sea-level rise by 2050, which will be catastrophic on its own. But they are just beginning to thoroughly measure a "hidden vulnerability" that will make matters far worse: The coastline is also sinking. From a report: It's a phenomenon known as subsidence, and it's poised to make the rising ocean all the more dangerous, both for people and coastal ecosystems. New research published in the journal Nature Communications finds that the Atlantic coast -- home to more than a third of the US population -- is dropping by several millimeters per year. In Charleston, South Carolina, and the Chesapeake Bay, it's up to 5 millimeters (a fifth of an inch). In some areas of Delaware, it's as much as twice that. Five millimeters of annual sea-level rise along a stretch of coastline, plus 5 millimeters of subsidence there, is effectively 10 millimeters of relative sea-level rise.

Atlantic coastal cities are already suffering from persistent flooding, and the deluge will only get worse as they sink while seas rise. Yet high-resolution subsidence data like this isn't yet taken into account for coastal hazard assessments. "What we want to do here is to really bring awareness about this missing component, that based on our analysis actually makes the near-future vulnerability a lot worse than what you would expect from sea-level rise alone," says Manoochehr Shirzaei, an environmental security expert at Virginia Tech and coauthor of the new paper.

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As Sea Levels Rise, the East Coast is Also Sinking

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  • From TFA:

    The good news is that subsidence can be halted, first by stopping the overextraction of groundwater, then ideally by pumping water back into the ground.

    It's not so easy to get water for this purpose though, maybe they should just buy ice from Greenland (before it melts anyway) and drag the bergs to SC, then pump the melt into the ground.

    • by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Thursday April 27, 2023 @10:15AM (#63480588) Journal

      > and drag the bergs to SC

      But SC banned all drag.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by cayenne8 ( 626475 )

        But SC banned all drag.

        Only for children.

        • That's got to be a violation of freedom of expression, and possibly separation-of-church-and-state, being it's religion-motivated. I can understand them banning outright nudity, but "sexual dance movements" is too vague and open-ended.

          You troglodytes are silly. Reminds of the time you tried to ban rock-n-roll in the 50's and 60's.

          • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

            by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 )

            That's got to be a violation of freedom of expression, and possibly separation-of-church-and-state, being it's religion-motivated. I can understand them banning outright nudity, but "sexual dance movements" is too vague and open-ended.

            You troglodytes are silly. Reminds of the time you tried to ban rock-n-roll in the 50's and 60's.

            In addition - women have long dressed in men's clothing. Is the religious right going to start outlawing that?

            Are we coming to an age where in the states where separation of church and state is gone - will women have to wear only dresses?

            Then we'll have to ban men in kilts, I suppose.

            All this could be avoided if the men who are triggered so much would just admit that they get off watching RuPaul's Drag race.

            • Then we'll have to ban men in kilts, I suppose.

              Worse, they'll make us wear undies beneath the kilt!

              • Then we'll have to ban men in kilts, I suppose.

                Worse, they'll make us wear undies beneath the kilt!

                Sacrilege!

            • will women have to wear only dresses?

              They should consider themselves lucky that the American Taliban, who want to keep them all pregnant and in the kitchen, does not force them to wear burkhas.

              • will women have to wear only dresses?

                They should consider themselves lucky that the American Taliban, who want to keep them all pregnant and in the kitchen, does not force them to wear burkhas.

                That is the incrementalism where these nutcases end up.

              • by dryeo ( 100693 )

                They'll have a different name and slightly different look.

            • by dryeo ( 100693 )

              Wasn't that long ago that women were banned and fined for wearing pants.

              • Wasn't that long ago that women were banned and fined for wearing pants.

                In some places, yeah. I have a picture of my mother in the 1940's in Philadelphia posing by a fountain, wearing pants.

                I never did quite figure out why the religion assholes would object to women in pants. Seems that even those hot ankles are covered up, preventing a wanton display of their pulchritude.

                • by dryeo ( 100693 )

                  I guess it was more like a century plus when the clothing laws were very strict, though I think even then drag was acceptable.
                  Some people just seem to be control freaks. What gets me is how they equate freedom with taking away others freedoms.

          • Growing up, my mother thought television like All In The Family was inappropriate for children (even high schoolers). Not because it was liberal, but because it was not a proper sort of moral lesson of the perfect family who never bickered. I think there are a lot of people that way who want to rigorouslly control what children see, conservatives and liberals bother trying to keep kids hidden in a bubble that hides any inadvertent harm or exposure to different ways of thinking.

    • by Anonymous Coward
      If the east coast is sinking, and the ocean is rising, then why someone "so smart" as King Obama bought a HUGE mansion along the east coast? LOL
      • Because the rich folks will just make the government (aka we the people) pay for keeping their homes safe.

      • by lenski ( 96498 )

        In response to a similarly uninformed comment here on slashdot many years ago, I recall studying this question.

        Most of Obama's land, and in particular the location of the mansion and its surrounding yard, is at or above 52 feet above sea level. There are paths down to the shore so it's not exactly 100 percent.

        The point being that unlike the assholes who expect to be protected after buying property on barrier islands in the carolinas and other areas that are well known to be hurricane and flood targets, the

      • Did you notes the rates?

        That motherfucker, his children and his grand children will be long dead before it's any kind of real threat to his house.

    • Re:counteract? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Marxist Hacker 42 ( 638312 ) * <seebert42@gmail.com> on Friday April 28, 2023 @12:58PM (#63483524) Homepage Journal

      Either that or just abandon those areas and move inland to places more than 200 feet above sea level. It's not like we don't have hundreds of thousands of square miles in the United States that are underpopulated.

  • Satellite radar (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Geoffrey.landis ( 926948 ) on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:51AM (#63480534) Homepage

    Yes, we are now getting good measurements by satellite radar: https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-05... [usgs.gov]

    This has been known for a while (e.g., https://www.nature.com/article... [nature.com] ), but the measurements are now getting a long enough time sequence to show the effect pretty clearly.

    • by HiThere ( 15173 )

      IIUC, what they're saying is not that the information is new, rather than just more precise, but that it's not being counted into the predictions of things like "future danger of flooding".

  • by FudRucker ( 866063 ) on Thursday April 27, 2023 @09:55AM (#63480550)
    and they are smooshing it down too much, half the people on the east coast should move to St. Louis or Chicago to balance the continent, i would suggest the west coast but that's overpopulated already
    • by King_TJ ( 85913 )

      Nah.... the people of St. Louis don't want them. Trust me. I just moved back from that area recently, myself. Most of us were under the impression the DC area at least has been sinking for a long time.

    • So this is how I understand it. Correct me if I've got it wrong. There's a big tectonic plate that extends from New York to Los Angeles. The east coast pumped all the water out of the ground and the plate started to sink. California never had any water in the first place so it was pretty light.

      So, here's my proposal. We just need to get the east coast folks to take a week long vacation in California. Stop off in Chicago to pickup bottled water. When we get everyone to California, it should sink back d

  • by avandesande ( 143899 ) on Thursday April 27, 2023 @10:19AM (#63480602) Journal
    It's nice that they left out that the north american continent is moving west and that the east coast is shrinking because of it.
  • That is the real question. Resell them land inland maybe? Condemn their existing properties? are also a few more questions.

    • by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Thursday April 27, 2023 @11:51AM (#63480888)
      I suppose every problem has some pockets of opportunity, but the real real question is "who's going to pay for this," because on the whole it will be catastrophically expensive. While these processes are gradual, most of the damage will occur in fits and starts - during storms. Is the federal government going to be on the hook for trillions of dollars in erosion control and freebie flood insurance for locations that simply aren't long-term viable any more? Politically, "helping people" is a no-brainer. But it would be better to let the market decide what places are worth re-developing, and to what level.
      • by DarkOx ( 621550 )

        The problem is the market can't decide.

        The market says - redevelop because there will be value there and the losses will always get socialized because 'helping people is a no-brianer', some of the free-after-the-fact disaster insurance needs to come with strings, ie there is a sunset date that gets attached to deed after which it revers to federal park land or something..

        At the very least we need to the actuarial tables set the flood insurance rates. Which of course does rapidly get rapidly priced into prop

    • by jonadab ( 583620 )
      I think the plan is to publish an endless stream of news stories about it.
  • Skeptical (Score:2, Interesting)

    by SuperKendall ( 25149 )

    We are supposed to accept as "fact" that sea level will rise a foot in 30 years, when the data going up to 2019 showed the actual rise was around 1/16 of an inch per year [scienceunderattack.com]...

    Yes sea levels are rising, but don't let the doom merchants mislead you as to the amount of increase, which is easily handled by modern day tidal engineering... Amsterdam exists.

    • Re:Skeptical (Score:5, Insightful)

      by srmalloy ( 263556 ) on Thursday April 27, 2023 @10:39AM (#63480662) Homepage

      We are supposed to accept as "fact" that sea level will rise a foot in 30 years, when the data going up to 2019 showed the actual rise was around 1/16 of an inch per year [scienceunderattack.com]...

      And accept as "fact" the sea level rise as measured locally, which includes the local land subsidence, as solely water-level rise, and then the 'discovery' of the land subsidence, which is then added onto the sea level rise that already includes the subsidence, and chickenlittle around screaming about how this makes the problem of sea level rise even worse.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by CAIMLAS ( 41445 )

        Hilarious, and likely accurate, observation.

        Very little different than these same people ignoring the "carbon cost", as well as the disproportionate ecological damage, of EVs.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      1/16 inch (1-2 mm) for 1901 to 2018 is correct. After 2019 it's over an 1/8 inch (3.7 mm) per year. We predicted an increase in the rate of sea level rise. And it's actually happening now. That's science, and you'll need to work very hard to disprove what all of us have been able to measure from direct physical observation.

      Climate change is fact. Sea level rise is a fact. The details of the cause and the schedule are still up for debate. Even if climate change is not entirely man-made, it's accepted that it

      • Either get on board or get out of the way.

        I agree. Those opposing nuclear fission as an energy source are in the way.

      • It is now the year 2023, 27 years from the year 2050. The claim in the GP post is that we will see "over a foot of sea level rise by 2050". The evidence cited in this comment is "1/8th of an inch per year". Well, one of you is wrong, because 1/8th of an inch over 27 years is 3.375 inches, not 12 inches.

        Furthermore, even using 1/8th of an inch rise as an average is also just wrong. Sea levels rise and fall at very different rates, because the land is moving relative to the water level, among other factors. T

    • Re:Skeptical (Score:5, Informative)

      by sonlas ( 10282912 ) on Thursday April 27, 2023 @10:56AM (#63480716)

      We are supposed to accept as "fact" that sea level will rise a foot in 30 years

      Nope, it is backed up by scientific research [nationalgeographic.com]. Of course, you can still hope it won't happen, but this is the equivalent as putting your fingers in your ears and go "lalalalalalala".

      The problem with sea rise, is that it is small by human measures (~3.2mm/year if I recall correctly). However it is accelerating, and already more than doubled since 1880.

      which is easily handled by modern day tidal engineering...

      Yet flooding in Venice is worse every year [bloomberg.com], despite huge engineering efforts to protect it.

      Talking about Amsterdam too [weforum.org].

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        We are supposed to accept as "fact" that sea level will rise a foot in 30 years

        Nope, it is backed up by scientific research [nationalgeographic.com]. Of course, you can still hope it won't happen, but this is the equivalent as putting your fingers in your ears and go "lalalalalalala".

        To be fair, that is pretty much what a large part of the human race is doing. And another large part is grasping at straws like geoengineering. Anything to just not have to change their ways or do anything actually effective about the problem.

    • You don't understand how acceleration works?
      Since 1880, we've measured over 8 inches of seal level rise. The thing is, 3 of those inches happened in the last 25 years, and the rate now is somewhere around twice what it was in just 2018.
      That acceleration is what should be worrying you. The graph is not just linear, it's curving up.

      • You don't understand how acceleration works?
        Since 1880, we've measured over 8 inches of seal level rise. The thing is, 3 of those inches happened in the last 25 years, and the rate now is somewhere around twice what it was in just 2018.
        That acceleration is what should be worrying you. The graph is not just linear, it's curving up.

        I have a question about this acceleration, at the current rate of acceleration how long would it take for this rate of sea level rise to reach the speed of light?

        An interesting bit about steam locomotives from long ago was the faster they went the more traction power they produced. Steam locomotives were quickly replaced by diesel-electric locomotives because the power of an electric motor is largely independent of how fast it goes, and with traction power being important in getting a locomotive moving out

        • For sure, it's not just going to curve up FOREVER.
          We can't just assume the acceleration will keep on at the current rate.
          Of course, it could curve up even faster, too.
          The thing is, we are very, very sure that a lot of the forces involved in causing that graph to shoot up are man-made.
          So here's the thing: if you want to propose that the rising sea level will slow DOWN, then you have to propose a decent hypothesis as to what change we can make to cause that to happen.
          So what is your hypothesis? What will we d

          • Your sig boldly proclaims "We solved global warming, now stop scaring everyone's kids to death over it.". So, how exactly did we solve it, and if we solved it, why is the sea level rising at faster and faster rates?

            Nuclear fission as an energy source.

            We solved the problem of rising sea levels from global warming, with global warming caused by burning fossil fuels, in the 1950s. Practical application of nuclear fission as an energy source was demonstrated with the USS Nautilus (SSN-571) in the 1950s, and that technology was further developed and demonstrated as practical in relatively short order through civilian and military nuclear reactors used to produce electricity and propel naval vessels. The sea level is stil

            • I agree that we aren't building enough nuclear power capabilities currently. That is what we should be doing.
              I just don't see how *not* building nuclear (pretty much what we are currently doing is not building nuclear, right?) is supposed to stop the raising sea.

      • by HiThere ( 15173 )

        I don't think you can assume smooth rates of sea level rise. Some of the predictions for Antarctica are a bit sudden. I haven't seen anything similar for Greenland, but I see no reason to doubt that they could happen also.

        IIUC your predicted "acceleration" is a best case scenario. It could happen, but there's no reason to really expect it (except as a long term average).

      • Fear not! We the people will happily keep voting the exact same way and the rich will have government bail them out. All is going according to plan!

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Well, you can complain about that when it does not happen. Incidentally, sea-levels are not the same all over the planet. They depend a lot on local conditions. This was just recently discussed here.

      The fun thing is though that climate changes in the short term (30 years is "short term" for something like this) are already all locked in and there is nothing that can be done about these anymore.

  • Now it's not just New Orleans that is sinking... it's everywhere on the coast. So write some hit songs.

  • > Climate scientists already know that the East Coast of the United States could see around a foot of sea-level rise by 2050

    [who?] as they say.

    I'll bet 'em each a hundred bucks that the East Coast doesn't get a foot of sea level rise by 2050.

    In other words, this submission starts off with a blatant lie (and no, you can't hide behind 'could' among decent people). Not an auspicious beginning.

    Anyway, ocean water used to flow north into Lake Champlain (NY/VT/QC) so it's full of giant ancient fish and such*.

    • According to this NOAA report from just last year, "Rise in the next three decades is anticipated to be, on average: 10 - 14 inches (0.25 - 0.35 meters) for the East coast." So, a foot sounds more like a median estimate rather than an extreme.

      Personally, I may live to find out, but I'll be awfully old.

  • and good riddance, where it's illegal to discuss climate change. Think they'll get it when the're treading water? Nah.

    • Re:Good bye Florida (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Baron_Yam ( 643147 ) on Thursday April 27, 2023 @11:29AM (#63480814)

      Pretty much all urban areas of Florida are going to get hard hit by climate change, because the majority of them are already pretty close to sea level.

      Florida is not just sinking geologically, but socially.

      No matter how bad it gets... they're still mostly going to be smart enough to migrate elsewhere, and they'll bring the poisoned culture of ignorance they're currently enhancing and reinforcing.with them when they do.

  • Lambert is a stones throw from Charleston, I think the project did go ahead anyway. https://www.live5news.com/2022... [live5news.com] Still, they have a point, solar uses a vast amount of land and will get more and more expensive with each new project, as the cheap land has already been put into service.
  • The lag of climate change makes it dangerous in it's own way, but when you can sink half a state into the ocean purely by agriculture long before sea level rise gets to it, it does call into question its ultimate significance.

    Which is not to say I don't think we should fight climate change, it's something to do while all the less tractable problems drag civilization down regardless. Only singularity can save us now though.

  • Not long ago, satellite studies showed sf bay area has far more subsidence than actual sea level rise. I would not be surprised if much of what is attributed to sea level "rise" is actually subsidence. There are also places where sea level is "falling" due to upthrust of surrounding land.

    • I would not be surprised if much of what is attributed to sea level "rise" is actually subsidence.

      They're looking at it from space, not from the land. They can tell the difference.

      There are also places where sea level is "falling" due to upthrust of surrounding land.

      Few. Few places.

    • by HiThere ( 15173 )

      You do know that much of San Francisco (and a lot of the other Bay Area) is built on land fill don't you? Subsidence should be expected.
      What you should check is whether the foundations of the skyscrapers are sinking. Those were anchored in the underlying rock.

      • Bedrock also moves in seismically active regions.

        • by HiThere ( 15173 )

          Yes, but the motion of the bedrock *is* the motion of the tectonic plate. It also move in regions that aren't seismically active, though more slowly. E.g. the northern part of North America is still rising after the melting of the last glaciation.

          Land fill subsiding, though, is a strictly local thing.

  • ...someone proves that this sinking hasn't always been going on, I'm going to simply file this with all the other 'climate change histrionic falsifications and half-truths', m'kay?

    Coastlines change over time.
    If I had to guess why the coasts of the US are sinking into the sea, it's because so many people hope they do.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I’ve been listening to climate change alarmists for 40+ years. Every time the next horrible milestone is just a couple decades in the future. None have ever occurred. It reminds me of cult leaders who speak of a rapture for his followers. Every time a date is missed, he chastises the unbeliever and sets a new date. Meanwhile, both cult leader and climate scientist / leader profits off the gullibility of the followers.

  • But the east coast IS sinking. Florida, too, but all of the "soft" ground is sinking.

    Look at photos of Fort Denison, in Australia's Sydney Harbor. That structure is at the same water level as 140 years ago. Sea levels aren't rising, and it's an enormous hoax to claim that they are.

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