Checks Will Be Phased Out in Australia By 2030 (abc.net.au) 227
Australia is set to be a cheque-less society by the end of the decade, if the federal government has its way. From a report Treasurer Jim Chalmers announced on Wednesday morning that his government would be moving to phase out cheques by no later than 2030. "We know that usage of cheques has been declining," he said. "This is largely because digital transactions are easier, cheaper and more accessible. "In fact, 98 per cent of retail cheques could be serviced through internet or mobile banking."
Because cheques only account for only 0.2 per cent of all payments, according to figures from an Australian Banking Association (ABA) report. Cheque payments are also more expensive to process compared to other payment types -- and it's been that way for some time. A report for the Reserve Bank of Australia in 2008 -- that's 15 years ago -- said it was costly then, saying it cost financial $4.22 to process cheques.
Because cheques only account for only 0.2 per cent of all payments, according to figures from an Australian Banking Association (ABA) report. Cheque payments are also more expensive to process compared to other payment types -- and it's been that way for some time. A report for the Reserve Bank of Australia in 2008 -- that's 15 years ago -- said it was costly then, saying it cost financial $4.22 to process cheques.
Ill prepared Aussies? (Score:2, Interesting)
So basically Aussies will be completely unprepared for life in Canada or USA, if they choose to emigrate?
(When I went to Canada I was bemused at the antiquity of the banking system, checks and wire transfers such that it actually cost MONEY to send MONEY from my account to my friends account).
Re: Ill prepared Aussies? (Score:2)
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Or you just have to look across the ditch to New Zealand, they dumped cheques years ago when the last person who still knew how to write one died of old age.
And no-one noticed their absence.
Re:Ill prepared Aussies? (Score:5, Informative)
Don't really know what you're on about with your comment. Phone books think that checkbooks are antiquated and should be relegated to a museum of payment history.
My wife and I write maybe 5 checks a year, living in the US. Maybe.
Everything else including mortgage payments is done via electronic payment - usually ACH transfer from our checking account to the recipient. Person-to-Person uses something like PayPal / Apple Pay / G Pay / Venmo / etc. Even the odd service call to our house results in payment through Stripe or some such on the service provider's phone against a credit card.
We literally will last for a few years on one checkbook with 50 checks, and usually our checkbook ends up getting reprinted or replaced because our address changes, not because we ran out. And then the rest of the old checks go in the shredder.
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Person-to-Person uses something like PayPal / Apple Pay / G Pay / Venmo / etc.
This is really interesting. So you'd never think to use a bank to transfer money to a friend or relative? It has to go through a 3rd party, corporate service?
Is that because of fees, or because people don't trust the banks for this sort of thing?
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Those services make it easy and have low or no fees.
The only checks I write are to my grandmother, who refuses to do anything online because someone might see her bank account information, but writes checks for everything.
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The point is bank transfers should be easy and have zero fees for consumers, just like the whole SEPA zone.
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The point is bank transfers should be easy and have zero fees for consumers, just like the whole SEPA zone.
Which is why I wonder how Bitcoin is expected to 'take off' as a universal cashless system, when their transfer fees are unpredictable, can rise to insane levels suddenly, and costs the same no matter how much you are transferring from one wallet to another.
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I may be naive, but I use a couple of layers hoping it's protection against a mistake or criminal theft. IE, I don't want my direct bank info out there to whomever.
The only real safe way is to have separate accounts at different banks, and transfer what you need into the account that's drawn on by creditors.
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Yup, scammers will use bank transfers. Much of the time they just need account and routing number, which is printed on the check. Some banks get smarter about this and you have to do some trial transfers first to approve inter-bank transfers first. But scammers are good at getting permissions though, after which they'll slowly drain some money out. Also I've seen what looks like money laundering being done this way.
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It has to go through a 3rd party, corporate service?
The 3rd party service is free (for my uses) and quick. The bank service is slow and expensive. Hell, my bank just implemented such a service a few months ago. Without even looking, I can safely assume that the 3rd party, corporate service is cheaper and faster.
I once tried using an interbank service to transfer money between bank accounts. It took a week for the money to transfer, whereas I needed the money to be transferred in no more than three days, and came with a free to pay for the dismal failure. It
Re:Ill prepared Aussies? (Score:4, Informative)
No more than three days? The US banking setup is stuck in the 1970's.
It's within 10 seconds for most banks inside the SEPA zone. That's any country in Europe to any other country. Within 10 seconds.
If the bank has antique systems or it's over a million or so the bank will fall back to the old SEPA system and it will turn up next business day.
Re:Ill prepared Aussies? (Score:4, Informative)
It has to go through a 3rd party, corporate service?
The 3rd party service is free (for my uses) and quick.
In the UK, the bank's service is free and immediate. I can also initiate international wire transfers using the bank's website.
Giving my details to a third party: that is less than optimum for security.
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My bank uses Zelle for person-to-person transfer.
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Oh, my bank offers that too, but the only people I ever see actually using Zelle are people trying to scam me because apparently Zelle isn't interested in policing their platform.
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Nobody polices their platform. Such fluff just gets in the way of profit making. This includes Apple.
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It's mostly because when I'm selling someone something off Craigslist or whatever, I don't want to have to go to the bank, when we're both standing there with phones that can read QR codes and get it done immediately for no overhead cost.
Going to the bank is like going to the post office - we have a million better ways to take care of most of the business that used to require physically going there. Now you only need to go down there for very specific edge-case items, like depositing large amounts of money
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I can send money from my UK bank to someone else using the bank's app on my phone. No need to involve a third party.
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That's because, unlike the U.S., your banking system isn't a dinosaur currently sinking into the tar pit.
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That's because, unlike the U.S., your banking system isn't a dinosaur currently sinking into the tar pit.
I really feel for that tar pit.
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I have bank accounts in both the US and the UK and I have in the past had accounts in Italy and France, so I am more qualified than most to know how bad banking is in the US!
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It's starting to happen, but it's not yet universally available.
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This is really interesting. So you'd never think to use a bank to transfer money to a friend or relative? It has to go through a 3rd party, corporate service?
Is that because of fees, or because people don't trust the banks for this sort of thing?
I've never seen a bank that makes that easy. I've never seen a way to do an ACH transfer from a personal account. Businesses can do it, but it's meant more for batch processing, like payroll. You got a fee for doing a batch plus a fee per transaction in the batch. Can't easily do one offs.
You can do wire transfers, but it's usually $30+ to send one and around $15 to receive one.
It's usually fee tho to request the bank print a check and mail it to someone for you.
Even just moving money between your own accou
Re: Ill prepared Aussies? (Score:3)
That is literally insane. You know it's not that crazy in the rest of the world, right?
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Most of my jobs have asked for a voided check in order to set up direct deposit. Other than that, I think the last time I wrote a check was in the process of selling one house and purchasing another. Of course I've received checks, such as when a doctor overcharged.
Re:Ill prepared Aussies? (Score:4, Informative)
I'm 38 years old. I have used fewer than 8 cheques in my life (the free cheques I was given when I opened my account).
Also, I've never paid for an Interac etransfer in Canada. I double-checked and apparently there are bank feres for it from lots of banks, which surprised me. I've never seen that be friction. But okay, apparently that does happen.
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Based on those figures 99.8% are already unprepared, so not much difference.
I can't remember even hearing about cheques, as an actual thing people use here (Norway), since the late 80s/early 90s. When it comes to banking, NA is for some reason decades behind in technology. A friend of mine has a vacation home in the US, and the stories I hear of his struggles when it comes to things like paying for utilities is the stuff of legends.
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Does he live in the backwoods of some 50s thinking state? I pay all my utilities here in LA online either by credit card or bank account.
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Based on those figures 99.8% are already unprepared, so not much difference.
I can't remember even hearing about cheques, as an actual thing people use here (Norway), since the late 80s/early 90s. When it comes to banking, NA is for some reason decades behind in technology. A friend of mine has a vacation home in the US, and the stories I hear of his struggles when it comes to things like paying for utilities is the stuff of legends.
I associate my bank account with my utility account. I can set up autopay or make one-time payments from the utility company's site or app.
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It was funny when my parents sent through checks for Christmas presents, anyone below 30 hadn't seen cheque before and didn't know what to do with them. I just exchanged them for cash and rang my parents to explain that cheques are like valve and tube TVs. Vaguely interesting but not useful in today's world.
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Checks are safer to send in the mail than gift cards or cash. That's why older people put checks in the grandkids birthday cards.
Meanwhile, I'm trying to get my mom to use checks more - I can track them much more easily than if you uses her easily scammed/lost/stolen credit cards. It often takes me more time to try and do one-time payment online for a bill she has overdue than to write a check from her account (joint owners). Some places don't trust you to make an online payment if you don't have an acco
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Eh? Cheques are hardly used much at all in Canada. And I don't know when you came here, but our banking system is way ahead of the USA. We can send money using Interac e-transfers to anyone with an email address for free. And we had chip-and-PIN credit cards many years before the USA.
Even in the USA, you have to pay for wire transfers.
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It's worse than you think in the U.S. ATM cards are chip and pin but credit cards are chip and signature or even just chip sometimes.
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How long ago was that? I haven't written a cheque in more than a decade. I'm not sure of anybody that would take it.
Some banks were dicks and charged a dollar for person-to-person Interac transfers, but there have been accounts with free transfers for at least twenty years, and I think all the big banks basically stopped charging several years ago.
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Anyone from Europe under about 40 might have seen their parents using checks when they were a kid.
In an electronic age checks are beyond pointless.
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So basically Aussies will be completely unprepared for life in Canada or USA, if they choose to emigrate?
I can't even remember the last time I had to write a check. Or, for that matter, use actual cash.
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Checks can be vital. Ie, my mother got a new bank account, and it's taking some time to get her deposits sent there. We got one today despite it being 6 weeks since filling out the direct deposit form.
Also I think automatic payments blind people to what's happening. Out of sight, out of mind. So again with my mom, I set it up myself for some things for her because if she did it herself she would immediately forget it. I've got a friend who paid for some monthly service for at least a couple of years af
Re:Ill prepared Aussies? (Score:4, Informative)
We are almost entirely chip-and-signature in the US. You have to request chip-and-PIN, and even then it's used pretty much only for pulling cash from ATMs (you've just taken out a 28% interest loan) or for overseas transactions where chip-and-PIN is the norm. I think many (perhaps most) terminals won't even know how to request a PIN for a credit card transaction.
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We are almost entirely chip-and-signature in the US. You have to request chip-and-PIN, and even then it's used pretty much only for pulling cash from ATMs (you've just taken out a 28% interest loan) or for overseas transactions where chip-and-PIN is the norm. I think many (perhaps most) terminals won't even know how to request a PIN for a credit card transaction.
SIGNATURE????? Actual signatures that you write with a pen using your hand?
I keep hearing that the USA is technologically advanced, perhaps this is as false as the idea that Russia is a major military power?
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Sometimes a pen, often a stylus so you can write a signature on a screen that looks nothing like your actual signature.
But yeah, no PIN. The banks said they didn't want to confuse customers. I think it's really because high-end customers associated PINs with debit cards that only plebs would be caught using.
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We're chip-and-nothing in the US more often than not.
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That's a merchant and processor decision. Processors allow for merchants to skip signature up to a certain amount, though merchants may be on the hook for at least partial charges from stolen cards. There's a convenience store near me that requires signatures for anything over $20, but my normal grocery store seems to require it only over $50. The amounts are definitely going up over time, though.
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For $20 I'll just pay cash. Even that won't freak out Europeans, I used cash there all the time without headaches.
No worries. (Score:2)
Will the banks lower their rates once checks are no more? Nope.
Will merchants lower their prices when they no longer have to cover the cost of checks? Nope.
What will the lottery do? Here's a credit card with a 50M limit! Not likely.
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What will the lottery do? Here's a credit card with a 50M limit! Not likely.
Read the fine print. Most lotteries pay out a relatively low amount per year over the course of several years. Choosing a single lump sum means you receive significantly less.
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Almost all lotteries here just pay out the lump sum. There are certain lotteries here that do have staggered payments as prizes (but there are circumstances when they could cause you to lose other income [7news.com.au])
They still have checks?? (Score:2, Redundant)
I'm in Europe, and I haven't seen a check for at least 20 years. I cannot even remember when it was, but probably in the nineties. So I'm surprised to learn that some countries still use them.
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Re: They still have checks?? (Score:2)
Here in the UK, there are no fees for bank transfers. When I bought my home and needed to transfer the deposit and taxes to my solicitor, I just transferred it to his account. As it was tens of thousands of GBP, I did it over three days or so due to (pretty high) daily limits, although maybe I could have talked to the bank to do it in one go.
I donâ(TM)t remember the last time I wrote or received a cheque. Maybe not in the last ten years. Theyâ(TM)re inconvenient, slow and insecure. Another exa
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Well, I've transferreda bit in the US and never paid fees for this. The snag is that it's slightly slow (2-3 days or so). Also how to exchange the information to do a transfer safely and securely - because if you can transfer into an account you often can also transfer out. Maybe being able to transfer out is the big mistake in the US, and other countries disallow this?
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So you use cash a lot? Or how do you pay an individual (housekeeper, plumber, etc)? Setting up an online payment system is painful and insecure. I'm a techie, which is why I don't like online payments.
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Finally catching up with NZ (Score:3)
Re:Finally catching up with NZ (Score:4, Insightful)
Here in Europe, I think we did so somewhere in the 1990s. Welcome to the present.
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I got one about 20 years go from some people that had invited me to the US and paid for the trip. My bank here had to physically ship it to a US Bank they had a partnership with specially for cashing checks. Took 6 weeks, but no extra charge.
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I once did some work for a US company and they cut me a check. Took me a while to get them to understand that to me that's a very nice looking piece of paper with some funny numbers on, but nothing I can monetize easily.
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I got one about 20 years go from some people that had invited me to the US and paid for the trip. My bank here had to physically ship it to a US Bank they had a partnership with specially for cashing checks. Took 6 weeks, but no extra charge.
Those numbers across the bottom of the check are your bank's routing number, your account number, and check number. That's enough information to initiate an electronic fund transfer (EFT). In fact, if you pay with a check at Walmart, they turn it into an EFT. I will say that it's a pain to deal with international checks. When we send money to my wife's family, we use Xoom or other services which take less than one business day.
Re:Finally catching up with NZ (Score:5, Informative)
Re: Finally catching up with NZ (Score:2)
Sounds like banking is shit where you live. We just do account to account transfers, no fees or delays.
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No fees in US that I've seen. But there is a delay. I think some delay is necessary for security - do both sides trust each other, is there a scammer or other middleman involved, do we know that the actual account holder is trying to send the money, etc. "Instant" transfers seems scary - at least have a 5 minute delay to at least pretend there was due diligence with other people's money. Otherwise - whoops, I double clicked instead of single clicked, now I sent too much money; or whoops, my ex used my a
Replaced with Osko (Score:2)
Cheques... yeah, time has passed... (Score:5, Informative)
I moved into my new house 15 months ago, and I got new cheques. Yesterday I had to actually write a cheque to mail to my local police department for an alarm permit ($30). I gave them cheque #001. I have a lifetime supply of them, apparently.
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In my city, an alarm permit is only required for commercial buildings, not for residential.
Today's checks are like 1970s telegrams (Score:2)
They have very little utility value but they are good for things like gifts for special occasions.
With phone-deposit, the recipient can take a picture of the check to deposit it, then keep the original as a memento.
Outside of Christmas, birthdays, weddings and the like, I expect to write less than a handful of checks a decade for the rest of my life.
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Given my credit card gets hacked every year or so I'm going back to checks more than I was.
Estimated tax payments to the IRS are by check, property taxes are by check, and the IRS just sent me a check for my tax refund. (They waived a penalty for reasons I don't fully comprehend. ) insurance bills are also by check, they are once or twice a year and it's more trouble to fight through the web pages than it is to mail the check.And donations to charity are by check. And the irrigation district water bill too.
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These are issues with your Government and banking system, instead of voting based along party lines vote to fix your institutions.
You should actually say what country you live in but I assume its the US as the financial institutions and associated Government agencies are pretty backward.
In Australia, tax payments are via EFT (electronic funds transfer), refunds are EFT, insurance is via EFT or credit card. The Australian Government has adopted the European PEPPOL system for electronic transfer of business d
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They can also take the check, copy down the routing and account numbers, and draw out an infinite amount from your accounts online. Whee, our banking system is so crap. (Most electronic checks are instantly approved, because it's actually very hard to verify if the recipient has the funds, aside from some third party systems, like Plaid, that actually verify this.)
* If they want to go to jail forever, for bank fraud. Because, we'd rather have silly punishment systems, instead of technologically secure syste
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No they can't. Literally every cheque you gave anybody had those numbers. They aren't a secret. They are not that easy to use. It's much harder than a credit card to compromise.
A what? (Score:2)
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Cheques were phased out here in New Zealand *years* ago. We're plastic/internet or cash (and increasingly the former rather than the latter).
As usual, mainland Australia is about a decade behind its Western Isle.
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Isn't New Zealand the Eastern Isle? It's to the east?
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In NZ, Australia is referred to as The West Island
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It may be worth mentioning that if you go west far enough from Australia, you'll eventually reach New Zealand.
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Nah, you're taking the short-cut! Go West young man! :-)
"I don't want them dippin' into my account" (Score:2)
My roommate uses the debit card tied to her checking account for groceries and the like. However, she refuses to set up automatic payment to utilities because "I don't want them dippin' into my account." She prefers to write checks, put them in envelopes, buy stamps, and mail them. She appreciates being able to limit the amount of payment to the amount written on the face of the check. And she would prefer disconnection of service over failure to make timely payment over not having enough money in her check
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However, she refuses to set up automatic payment to utilities....
Tell her she is missing an option: a monthly, manual one time debit payment. I don't do automatic utility payments either, but resorting to checks is ridiculous.
Virtually non-existent in Europe (Score:2)
SEPA in Europe basically means nobody uses cheques there. If you owe someone money in the Euro zone you can transfer to their bank account with their IBAN even if they're in another participating country. So if I were renting a villa in Spain I could pay the owner from my Irish account with no hassle.
Costly? ATM 's now (Score:2)
Cheques in Australia (Score:2)
Business use is near zero, other problems exist (Score:2)
The only people who use checks in Australia are the elderly, and they're surprised when tradesmen and other businesses don't accept them and use mobile payment devices. The company that I work for has revenue of about 50M and hasn't accepted or written a cheque in 10 years. Everyone cringes when they see one of the grey generation pull out their chequebook with a flourish.
That being said the Australian Government needs to create a solid digital identity framework and issue identity smartcards with PKI capab
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At a place I worked we'd have lunch trucks come by on Fridays for awhile. Sometimes it was a disaster - some yuppie with a truck would only accept iPhone payments, and appear baffled if someone wanted to pay with cash or credit card. They should have just put up a sign saying "No food for people over 25!"
My last domino tumbled a few months ago (Score:2)
The garbage company here changed some things that make it no longer worthwhile to mail them checks. I forget why I was still doing it (crappy web site? Service fee?) but it was the last check I routinely wrote. The other dinosaur that goes along with that is stamps. I have a partially used sheet of "Great Outdoors" Forever stamps tacked up on my bulletin board. It's a shame this didn't happen right after I bought the "Japanese Friendship" stamps. Those looked really nice and if the check-writing and m
I don't see a real replacement in the US (Score:2)
I have written very few checks in the last 20 years, but here's an example.
I bought a used car from an individual. What other way is there to pay an individual a few thousand dollars? I wasn't going to carry that much cash.
Companies can take plastic, but individuals can't.
I'm never ever giong to tell my cell phone any banking information, and the popular cash apps have lower limits anyway.
Re: I don't see a real replacement in the US (Score:2)
Bank transfer. Simple, quick and safe.
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The last time I bought a car from an individual, we met at my credit union's office and they handled everything:
Paying off the former owner's loan (held at a different bank or credit union).
Setting up my new loan
Registering the transfer with the DMV.
Switzerland (Score:2)
When I lived in Switzerland 15 years ago, they were completely check free. Everything was sent electronically.
Can't believe that the US is still using checks. PITA
What about small businesses (Score:2)
for example the guy who mows the lawn, and the guy who shovels the snow off the driveway in the winter.
Oh I guess thats not an issue in Oz, the sheep eat the grass and its too hot for snow...
Putting a stop to the gorcery store check writers! (Score:2)
Toddle in and take five minutes to write a check for a two dollar candy bar while everybody waits.
I've never head a good reason why they couldn't use a card, other than they just can't be told.
What about bank checks and large transactions? (Score:2)
I don't know anything about how the financial system works in Australia, but from a USA perspective I don't think we're remotely ready for this when it comes to major transactions.
Every time I have bought or sold a house, there has been at least one large bank check involved. What replaces that? Every time I have bought a car, there has been a large bank check involved. Some dealers might take $5K or so on a credit card, but that's nowhere near the price of a new car. In both of these cases, the deed/
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...and DRAIN their account...
Do you think governments don't already have that ability, and haven't had it since the invention of banks?
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...but they're surely being metaphorical. Right?
Sometimes. I know people who still get paid via paper checks. It's a puzzling anachronism, but it still happens.
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Actually, in the US, some people DO NOT HAVE bank accounts. These people need to receive their pay as a physical check.
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No they don't.
Other countries manage to make this work, it's simply inertia.
A country simply make a law saying that payment via EFT can be a requirement for holding a job. Job done.
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A country simply make a law saying that payment via EFT can be a requirement for holding a job. Job done.
Are you also going to mandate that banks must open a checking account for anyone who walks in and demands one?
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Well, we say paycheck, and it's mostly a holdover saying, like dialing a phone number, while there hasn't been an actual dial on any phone I've used for the last30 years or so.
I haven't had an actual paper check for pay in about 13 years, though I do get a paper "stub", which is shows a record of hours of work, vacation, holiday, etc. and all the deductions like SS, Medicare, insurance, etc.
At the last employer I was getting a p
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It's like a silly paper IOU, that is between banks, and that your bank allows you to write. Because: signatures are trusted like gold, in our legal system. (Who knows why. It's not like you can't construct a signature robot. Oh wait, I know. It's because legacy systems exist forever, because nobody bothers to change them.)
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You pronounce it "check". It's pronounced and used exactly the same way as our North American friends use checks.
Spelling it cheque is useful from my perspective because it disambiguates it from the other meaning of "check".