US Suspends Federal Funding To Wuhan Lab Over Non-Compliance (reuters.com) 101
The U.S. has suspended federal funding to China's Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) for failing to provide documentation related to concerns over biosafety protocol violations at the facility that has faced questions for years over the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic. From a report: The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) also said it wants to bar the Chinese research body from participating in government procurement and non-procurement programs going forward. WIV has not received federal funding from the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the U.S. medical research agency, since July 2020, according to an HHS statement on Wednesday.
It actually WAS Trump's fault (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't put it on Biden. If anyone allowed the "China virus", bamboozled or not, it was Trump. Trump funded Wuhan for 4 years and gets off scot-free. Trump got rid of the federal pandemic preparedness program (almost like he knew the virus was coming). Trump allowed the pandemic and enabled the ensuing panic. Same way his federal agencies instigated the January 4 riot which right-wing idiots think Biden was president at that time. Biden did not become president until January 20th you idiots. Look it up. Maybe
Re:C'mon man... (Score:4, Insightful)
And decades later they are still holding on to documents about the Kennedy assassination.
Is anyone important from that era even still alive? Who are they protecting?
It's shit like that which feeds conspiracy theories. If you don't come clean and tell people what's really going on and _earn_ a reputation for being trustworthy then people will make up their own shit to fill in the blanks.
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Persons no, institutions yes, policies and procedures, doctrines, etc still in effect also yes.
As far as capabilities, methodology, and practices - I think its a pretty wild stretch to claim to much trade craft from that period isnt well known to anyone dangerous enough to be interested at this point all ready or has been replaced by more modern effective methods.
Call me a conspiracy nutter or whatever, I don't really care. I do think and will go on thinking the ONLY reason STILL can't see the JFK stuff is
What bothers me is we have real conspiracies (Score:2, Insightful)
But that's no fun. A conspiracy without a mystery is just a downer. A reminder that the world is a terrible place full of terrible people who do terrible things.
But China bioengineering a virus for war? Exciting! It also lets yo
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China, almost certainly, did not bioengineer this virus for intentional release. What the withdraw and lack of funding is about is the fact they have been covering up, hiding, stonewalling, or flat out didn't keep records. All things you DO NOT WANT in a bio facility that deals with viruses that could kill millions of humans. The question is - will eliminating this funding reduce that possibility to increase the possibility of that outcome?
You know what would have helped with that? (Score:1)
China's covering up that the wet markets & deforestation caused the pandemic. We know this because every epidemiologist on the planet has been warning us about them for decades!
China needs those things to keep their rural economy going, and they need their rural economy to keep going so that they can keep the populace pacified by overwork. Idle hands are the devil's plaything.
It's exactly the sort
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And decades later they are still holding on to documents about the Kennedy assassination.
Is anyone important from that era even still alive? Who are they protecting?
They are protecting the illusion of Democracy. If people really knew what happened, America would fall. Democracy was directly subverted on that day.
I thought you were way smarter than that?
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Nixon commited real and documented crimes. Trump is very much like Nixon in many ways. Nixon and Trump both valued personal loyalty to themselves, the person, over loyalty to the office of president or the country itself. They were both also obsessed with reelection, enough so to engage in crimes regarding elections.
This difference is there the Republicans turned against Nixon, they had the integrity to not try to cover up someone else's crimes even if it meant losing political power in congress or the ex
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Settle down, Trump was just continuing programs set up by the previous administration, as presidents often do.
Re:It actually WAS Trump's fault (Score:5, Informative)
Really? Why did Trump life the ban Obama put in place for gain-of-function research? Reference: https://www.science.org/conten... [science.org] 2nd reference: https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/dua... [umn.edu] Then why did he cancel the pandemic preparedness program setup by the previous administration. Reference: https://www.vanityfair.com/new... [vanityfair.com]
Again: Why was the gain-of-function research ban lifted during Trump's reign of terror? Why did he dismantle the pandemic response team?
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Is Congress finally making good on their threat to investigate Fauci?
Re: It actually WAS Trump's fault (Score:1)
He didn't "cancel" the pandemic response plan, he reorganized it, there is a difference.
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And the way he "reorganized" it was at least as bad as if it had been cancelled.
Neither Trump nor Biden are capable of leading a Cub Scout pack, let alone a nation.
Unfortunately, we're stuck with either "Team Blue" or "Team Red" so we're screwed either way.
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Why was the gain-of-function research ban lifted during Trump's reign of terror? Why did he dismantle the pandemic response team?
For me, your references paint a different story. The Obama admin allowed a panel to carve out exceptions to the ban, and then later, an Obama appointee at the NIH that trump left in place got rid of the ban entirely. And honestly I don't know what the PPP was, or what it could have possibly done to change the trajectory of covid-19. The linked article doesn't say exactly. But it looks like the answer is probably "nothing". The PPP can't To be clear I'm no trump fan, but I think his pandemic respons
Re: It actually WAS Trump's fault (Score:4, Insightful)
So Trump bears zero responsibility for policies carried out by his administration (even though many, even if he didn't know of them individually, would have been influenced by top level directives).
But Fauci is individually responsible for every action carried out by his department (even though we don't really know if he had any significant personal involvement)?
I see you took to heart that sign that Trump had on his desk "The Buck Stops ANYWHERE else but Here".
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Trump bears responsibility for not cleaning house when he took office.
Re: It actually WAS Trump's fault (Score:5, Insightful)
Every president in US history has taken the blame for everyting their administration has done. Truman even had the "The Buck Stops Here" plaque on his desk. Until Trump, where Trump blames all his administration for not being loyal enough to him, for being deep state stooges, etc. Hypocritical too since he clearly points blame at Biden and Obama for what their administration does while absolving himself of blame when his administration screws up. And for all those evangelicals out there, note that the biggest scorn you can get out of Jesus is scorn for hypocrites.
Actually Trump saved lives by closing early (Score:3)
rump got rid of the federal pandemic preparedness program (almost like he knew the virus was coming).
That is untrue. Departments were reorganized. The same people were doing the same job before and after, just under a different name.
Trump allowed the pandemic and enabled the ensuing panic.
That is untrue. He shut down traffic with China very early and took a lot of criticism from the Democrats for doing so. He ended us slowing the progress of the disease in the US which help prevent our healthcare system from being overloaded. In other words, he saved lives by closing early.
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The TDS strong in this one.
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1) The president cannot fund anything. Only congress can spend taxpayer money.
2) Congress always plays the same trick: they bring the president a budget at the 11th hour, the president can either accept the entire thing, or reject the entire thing and shutdown the federal government. Trump did a shutdown for a long time, but eventually had to give up.
3) Nobody knows what is in these colossal spending bill. The last one was 5000 pages long. Nobody had time to read it. Nobody would have read it if they did ha
Re: It actually WAS Trump's fault (Score:1)
So, remember when Trump was lambasted by the media for daring to say the virus came from China? Called xenophobic and whatnot? He could have slapped the documented proof of COVIDâ(TM)s origins, and people like YOU would have still called him a liar.
And I hate to tell you this, but funding Wuhan predates Trump. It stsrted under Obama, and along with the fact that the NIH was using a third party to slip funding to the lab, Fauci vehemently and public ally denied any connection, and denied the lab leak
Re:Covid came from the lab, cover up says say so (Score:4, Interesting)
We will never know the true origin of COVID. If there is an evidence it came from a lab, the Chinese are going to share it with anyone. There is no reason for them to, and many reasons for them not to.
It doesn't matter, even if we had hard proof it came from that lab there isn't anything we can really do with that information. Maybe protest at the UN, try to get some UN lab inspectors in there. Worked great for WMD.
What matters now is that we prepare for the inevitable next time.
I disagree (Score:2, Interesting)
The overwhelming evidence points to bats and pangolins and humans interacting with them both at wet markets and during deforestation. There's more than enough evidence to hold up in a court of law here, even if scientists will always hedge their bets because they don't like to think of anything as "proven" outside of a few truisms
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China is already under trade sanctions, they aren't working. There are already incentives not to destroy wildland.
They're weak sanctions at best (Score:3, Interesting)
We can carrot & stick too, we don't need all stick. We can provide subsidies and the like to help them clean up their act. But we've been warned about this for decade. So much so that when Obama handed Trump the White House the scenario used to train Trump in disaster management was a global
Ignore unsafe bio lab with bats a few miles away (Score:2, Troll)
The overwhelming evidence points to bats and pangolins and humans interacting with them both at wet markets and during deforestation.
There is much stronger evidence. A vial lab doing gain of function work a few miles from that wet market. A lab that was studying those bat. A lab that asked the US for help long before the pandemic, that admitted there were safety problems. A lap that career state department personnel said was unsafe before the pandemic. A lab who had several scientists get sick with covid sounding symptom immediately before the outbreak.
even if scientists will always hedge their bets
Our scientists did hedge their bets, they misdirected. When asked "if the lab was the
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the lab is in Wuhan because of course it is. It's a major city. Meanwhile right down the way you'll find caves full of bats people routinely go into along with the wet markets.
No, those caves are hundreds of miles to the south. There isn't a bat in the wild anywhere near Wuhan as they live in the south of China, nowhere near Wuhan which is in the north of China.
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And as I mentioned on another post the gene sequences all point to a naturally occurring virus that came out of bats and pangolins.
That's the dissembling US officials tried. Naturally occurring is not the issue, the lab collected naturally occurring sample and gene editing is not being claimed. Gain of function can be accomplished through natural processes.
The lab would literally be safe if they users just washed their hands while working on the virus. No matter how badly run the lab was I think it's safe to say they at least washed their hands after handling viral samples.
People at the lab said otherwise to visiting CDC officials prior to the outbreak.
I think it is safe to say you literally do not understand the methods of infection, safety requires more than washing ones hands frequently. One errant touching of eyes, nose, or mouth between hand wa
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We will never know the true origin of COVID. If there is an evidence it came from a lab, the Chinese are going to share it with anyone. There is no reason for them to, and many reasons for them not to.
It doesn't matter, even if we had hard proof it came from that lab there isn't anything we can really do with that information. Maybe protest at the UN, try to get some UN lab inspectors in there. Worked great for WMD.
What matters now is that we prepare for the inevitable next time.
Regarding "doing something": how about: not immediately modding troll anyone here who dares to suggest that as a possibility?
Also, compliant or not, how the hell are US taxpayer's dollars used to fund a Chinese lab?!
Re: Covid came from the lab, cover up says say so (Score:2)
If we knew the leak came from the lab, we could investigate HOW it leaked, we coluld modify/improve the safety protocols in the labs, and we could start vigorously enforcing those protocols by withholding funding from them.
Another pandemic may be coming, but let's not let history repeat itself, let's force the virus to find a new way out of the lab.
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If there is an evidence it came from a lab, the Chinese are going to share it with anyone.
The head of the WIV said she destroyed the bat virus samples just days after the outbreak. That would have been the evidence to tell us if it was a leak from a lab or not. There is absolutely no reason to destroy those samples from a scientific POV. And knowing if it was a lab leak absolutely does matter. It allows us to make better guidelines for preventing this from happening again. Not sure why you would think it wouldn't matter...oh yea...politics...
The real question (Score:2, Funny)
Is what Joe Rogan tells me to think.
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For me, it's Lex Fridman
wait why is the USA funding China? (Score:5, Insightful)
wait why is the USA funding China?
Re:wait why is the USA funding China? (Score:5, Informative)
The NIH provided funding to the US-based EcoHealth Alliance who then outsourced some of the research to the Chinese lab in question. The BBC has the rundown [bbc.com].
Re: wait why is the USA funding China? (Score:2)
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Because such gain-of-function research is banned in the U.S.A
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@Joe_Dragon [slashdot.org]: “wait why is the USA funding China?” Because such gain-of-function research is banned in the U.S.A
And that is a good enough reason to fund chinese bioweapons program?
Re: wait why is the USA funding China? (Score:1)
Bullshit - NIH lifted a "pause" implemented under Obama.
It was not a "sanction" (it was a pause in US funding - the lab was free to perform gain-of-function testing during the "pause", they just had to find someone else to fund it).
It was not put in place by Obama (it was from the NIH).
It was not lifted by Trump (it was lifted by NIH).
And according to Dr. Fauci no gain of function research was performed in Wuhan...
https://www.science.org/conten... [science.org]
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Nixon on Kissenger, failed 1960s/70s idea (Score:3)
wait why is the USA funding China?
Nixon on Kissenger, a failed idea from the 1960s/70s. The idea was that by engaging with China we could make it friendlier. This idea died during the Tiananmen Square massacred in 1989. But by then too many politicians were making lots of money off of China trade so they continued with "engagement".
All the favorable trade policies were premised on China being a poor developing nation. Again, for to continue padding their pockets, politicians continued these favorable to China trade policies well past Chi
Re: wait why is the USA funding China? (Score:1)
Because "science"? We fund millions of things around the globe, you'd be amazed whee your tax dollars are being spent.
Because in exchange for that (Score:1)
It's not a coincidence that shit got out of hand when we stopped funding China. There's an old saying in foreign policy: it's cheaper to drop food than bombs.
Orly? (Score:2, Informative)
If you have a dissenting opinion based on facts and science and evidence and investigations, that's not allowed and all your social media accounts were be banned. In fact, not only don't talk about this but keep voting for establishment, rich politicians.
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Dude, covid passes back and forth between humans and deer in the USA.
You don't need to invoke conspiracy theories to figure out how this works.
It also routinely teleports at distances of over 1000km, like from its natural reservoir to Wuhan. No lab workers gathering samples for study, then failing to contain them involved, nooooo sir!
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Guys, it's all a conspiracy and it's impossible that a virus they were studying specifically
You mean a class of virus, because there's zero evidence they were every studying the strain that caused COVID-19.
If you have a dissenting opinion based on facts and science and evidence and investigations
Which yours isn't, since you don't actually seem to understand there's no evidence they had the virus.
In fact, not only don't talk about this but keep voting for establishment, rich politicians.
Lemme guess, if you're American you plan to vote for the very rich Trump over the much less wealthy Biden.
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You mean a class of virus, because there's zero evidence they were every studying the strain that caused COVID-19.
Technically there is zero evidence WIV was studying any virus since they destroyed all their samples they were studying at the beginning of the outbreak. However, since when has intentionally destroying evidence for no scientific reason been proof it never existed? If anything, it is a giant blinking sign pointing at their guilt.
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You mean a class of virus, because there's zero evidence they were every studying the strain that caused COVID-19.
Technically there is zero evidence WIV was studying any virus since they destroyed all their samples they were studying at the beginning of the outbreak. However, since when has intentionally destroying evidence for no scientific reason been proof it never existed? If anything, it is a giant blinking sign pointing at their guilt.
I've no idea what you're talking about unless it's this [businessinsider.com].
If it is... I don't see the argument. Isn't asking labs not equipped to handle a dangerous virus to destroy samples of said virus exactly what you want them to do?
More to the point, you think this is them publicly announcing that they're destroying evidence? Why wouldn't they just order WIV to destroy their samples secretly? Like it doesn't even make sense as a conspiracy theory.
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If it is... I don't see the argument. Isn't asking labs not equipped to handle a dangerous virus to destroy samples of said virus exactly what you want them to do?
WIV is equipped to handle those types of viruses. That's why research on those types of viruses happens there. Also, they publicly announced it because otherwise we would expect them to exist and ask to see them. Your level of denial is quite spectacular. OJ supporters were more rational.
If you have a dissenting opinion (Score:2)
1. The virus lacks any of the markets of being tampered with or made by people.
2. The virus has all the markets of having originated from bats and pangolins in the region.
3. The only serious debate left is whether it came out of the wet markets, the rampant deforestation or a little bit of both.
Start with Rebecca Watson's YouTube videos on the subject. From there you'll find links to various papers on the subject. You could also use Google Sc
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1. The virus lacks any of the markets of being tampered with or made by people.
Agree, but this means it wasn't modified, not that it didnt come from
2. The virus has all the markets of having originated from bats and pangolins in the region.
by region you mean over 500 miles away? That's more than the distance of san francisco and vegas.
3. The only serious debate left is whether it came out of the wet markets, the rampant deforestation or a little bit of both.
Incorrect. Wuhan is still a very likely and plausible path. It's just not a virus that was altered. it's very possible that their wild caught virus they brought back to study/catalog escaped the lab (twice)
The bat version of this virus was brought back to Wuhan lab to be studied. Just because it doesnt show signs of being modified doesn't m
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How can you post this and not be downvoted to oblivion? I mean, I'm impressed.
I make such comments and end up -1 Troll every time.
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Because "The $cience(tm)" changed.
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Who gives the faintest shit what an Anonymous Coward says?
Hilarious you assert that account is 'new' - you're too much of a pussy to even make one.
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I love science. I'm a reasonably well informed amateur.
I just don't base my scientific understanding on the current fad, nor accept "received wisdom" as sacred.
200+ comment thread incoming (Score:1, Informative)
Current tech for manipulating viruses leaves clear traces. On a quick look there was what looked like some of those traces in COVID-19, after a bit of investigation the scientists who claimed they might be prese
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Just to get this out of the way, no, the virus was not man made. Or if it was China has secret biotech that is so advanced as to be indistinguishable from magic and instead of using it to make tons of money they decided to unleash a virus on the world that devastated their economy and people too.
Nice strawman you have torched there. Noone is suggesting Chinese made a de-novo virus from scratch - what people are suggesting is they were doing gain of function research on a natural virus, and failed to follow safety procedures, resulting in its release into the wild. But you knew that.
Current tech for manipulating viruses leaves clear traces. On a quick look there was what looked like some of those traces in COVID-19, after a bit of investigation the scientists who claimed they might be present came out and said no, our quick glance at the data was wrong, and the sequences were in fact naturally occurring. We know this because with our tech when we insert stuff into a virus it doesn't last. It's not naturally occurring, so after a few dozen generations it fades away.
Oh, another nice strawman there. Noone is suggesting they were doing CRISPR on that virus, only that they were passaging it in human cell cultures, resulting in evolutionary adaptation to human hosts. Guess what, evoluti
You're the one with the strawman (Score:2)
You don't need to spend hours of your life, just search YouTube for "Rebecca Watso
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Because COVID doesn't spread by touch (Score:1)
So now you're telling me you want me to believe that a bunch of virologist were out gathering viruses by hand for unspecified nefarious purposes and they didn't wash their hands?
Honestly that's such a silly point I missed it because I didn't consider it. If you told me Gargamel made the viruses to kill the Smurfs I think that would've been more grounded in reality. But even Gargamel would know to wash his hands...
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at least not very well. Handwashing with soap is enough to prevent it. So now you're telling me you want me to believe that a bunch of virologist were out gathering viruses by hand for unspecified nefarious purposes and they didn't wash their hands? Honestly that's such a silly point I missed it because I didn't consider it. If you told me Gargamel made the viruses to kill the Smurfs I think that would've been more grounded in reality. But even Gargamel would know to wash his hands...
Ah, so the people telling us to disinfect hands with alcohol (that left quite many people, myself included with some nasty sores) for 2 years were conspiracy theorists, and just soap would have been enough? And of course nevermind the airborne route? Yeah, at this point I'm done talking with you I guess.
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at least not very well. Handwashing with soap is enough to prevent it.
Ah, so the people telling us to disinfect hands with alcohol (that left quite many people, myself included with some nasty sores) for 2 years were conspiracy theorists, and just soap would have been enough?
I don’t know who those people were who were telling you to disinfect hands with alcohol, but yes, that it correct: soap and water is the preferred way to wash your hands to prevent spread of viruses. Alcohol is the second choice, if water is not available.
And this is not new; it’s been stated in pretty much every piece of advice on hand washing. I’m surprised you missed it.
"Washing hands with soap and water is the best way to get rid of germs in most situations. If soap and water are not
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No, it doesn't. Gain of Function is literally nothing more than setting up a specific environment to encourage evolution to proceed in a specific manner and then letting biology happen. There is no splicing, modification, or anything that would in any way be detectable. You might be able to see signs of GoF by looking for the types of evolution you might observe in a lab vs in the wild. But we're talking about a virus that already doesn't exhibit the spillover signat
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NIH (Score:1, Troll)
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With all the conspiracy nuts and fools in the USA, I sure hope REAL SCIENTISTS do their science by any means possible.
You're the idiot here (Score:2, Informative)
The "conspiracy nuts" are proven right, time and time again, to not trust a word that is said to them. If the government, science and media would stop lying, maybe they'd regain some credibility.
Fat chance. Lying to stupid people for immediate policy goals is ingrained in the character of our society now. Despite its corrosive long term effect on credibility.
Goebbels figured this out also, ultimately, but halfway measures intended to retain the ability to propagandize the masses failed him, and all the r
USA sends money everywhere (Score:1)
it is just as much Fauci's failt (Score:1)
Off topic (Score:2)
Less of a story than people think (Score:2)
Dictatorships do not like transparency at the best of times, and COVID-19 was not the best of times for China. So fairly early into COVID-19 China did what it always does and went into full info lockdown, including of course the lab.
So the US is suspending funding since no one wants to deal with a lab that's in the habit of covering everything up.
This isn't really evidence for or against the lab-leak hypothesis, it's just further evidence that China is a dictatorship who defaults to secrecy, and should ther
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you're funny, with Fauci funding that lab that was in the habit of covering everything up.
You virtue signal condemning China? pffft, they're not the problem here.
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you're funny, with Fauci funding that lab that was in the habit of covering everything up.
I'm not sure that's a coherent argument since it sounds like the lab wasn't in the habit of covering things up until they went into info lockdown mode after COVID.
You virtue signal condemning China? pffft, they're not the problem here.
China is a brutal dictatorship that engages in widespread IP theft, horrific human rights abuses, and actual genocide.
But I do agree they're not the problem here.
There's no evidence that COVID was a result of anything but them having a set of demographics and traditions that make cross over diseases more likely. And their response to COVID wasn't