Strongest Sign Yet Australia Heads Toward a Totally Cashless Society? (9news.com.au) 180
The Australian news service 9News reports on the "strongest sign yet" that Australia is headed toward a "totally cashless society... the number of notes in circulation officially declining for the first time since dollars and cents were introduced in 1966."
According to data from the Reserve Bank of Australia (RBA), more than a billion dollars worth of physical cash disappeared from circulation in the last financial year, a shift that's likely to make life more difficult for the elderly and for those in the regions. Authorities say less cash will also hurt the nation's criminals, who rely heavily on its use, making it harder for them to make transactions undetected...
The RBA's survey of consumers' payment trends revealed that a third of Aussies now consider themselves "low cash users" — meaning they claim to use cash for less than 20 per cent of all their in-person transactions. In 2019, about half of the nation's residents were reported as such... It's expected that cash use will continue to decrease in the coming years, similar to the use of cheques, which are set to wrap up completely in the country by 2030.
The RBA's survey of consumers' payment trends revealed that a third of Aussies now consider themselves "low cash users" — meaning they claim to use cash for less than 20 per cent of all their in-person transactions. In 2019, about half of the nation's residents were reported as such... It's expected that cash use will continue to decrease in the coming years, similar to the use of cheques, which are set to wrap up completely in the country by 2030.
Bad example. (Score:4, Insightful)
sweden already did this (Score:2)
actually sweden is the example
frankly australian banks have very little clue about outflows and blindly allow transfers without real authorisation (cryptographic) they will allow a internet transfer without a key just a SMS and when SMS can be spoofed it allows all kind of proxies to be setup and real loss's to the consumer
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because while you can claim you didn't make the transfer, the money is gone already. you may get it back, but it'll take weeks.
also the reason why credit cards are better than debit in this regard. when there's a fraudulent charge on your debit card, the money is already gone. if it's to your credit card, it's still the bank's money, not yours.
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Yep, that's the reason I've long refused to have a debit card....I stick with plain credit cards and ATM card for when I want cash out.
I did run into one thing recently that was new...I was looking to make a large ticket purchase.
I have the cash in hand, but when offered things like 24mos
Re:Bad example. (Score:4, Insightful)
Indeed. On the other hand "first declining since 1966" and "totally cashless" seem to be pretty far removed from each other...
Re:Bad example. (Score:5, Interesting)
Australia have always been a test ground for new technology. Our retail banking system is far ahead of the USA's fragmented system and most aussies use NFC for retail transactions....
but as the parent says, cashless is a huge danger because you can suddenly become person non grata.
It's already happened in canada, where bank accounts were closed for merely donating to the trucker protest.
Don't think for one second a private bank will either de customer you or a govt command a bank to freeze your account, then you're back to barter!
Re:Bad example. (Score:5, Informative)
Re: Bad example. (Score:4)
It also happened recently to Nigel Farage, leading to quite the unlucky scandal and the resignation of the NatWest CEO. Tommy Robinson faced similar issues. If they can do this to public figures, imagine what they can do to private individuals with few resources?
A cashless society is something dictators of the past could only dream of.
Re: Bad example. (Score:2)
> So if all the banks close your accounts because you made a social media post that offended whatever the latest pet absurdity they are supporting, or you support a political party they donâ(TM)t like, what will you do? After all private institutions have no obligation to you.
Thatâ(TM)s the point. Banking is both essential and has high barriers to entry. It would be reasonable to legally enforce neutrality. Providing banking services doesnâ(TM)t require expression on the part of the bank n
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Australia have always been a test ground for new technology. Our retail banking system is far ahead of the USA's fragmented system and most aussies use NFC for retail transactions....
Erm... Which Australia are you talking about?
Australia has always been behind the rest of the world. Usually the last developed country to get anything. Compared to the European and UK banking systems of 8 years ago, the Australian banking system is positively antiquated. It wasn't until a few years ago when you could near instantly send money to another bank account, the UK has had it's Faster Payments system in place since before I got here in 2015 and still in Australia it "may" take 24 hours for a t
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This is like the prepper hoping that an asteroid or zombie apocalypse starts just to validate their opinion and tell others I told you so.
There's nothing terrible about a society being cashless. Australia is far behind many other countries in this regard. There are many people in the world who simply do not handle cash anymore and have shown to be perfectly functional. I myself haven't touched cash other than on holidays or on business trips in other countries for about 3 years now.
Re:Bad example. (Score:4, Interesting)
For a society in time of war being targeted by foreign actors willing to hack and destroy online services (incuding banking), power stations and communications satellites, being cashless can get pretty confusing pretty quickly.
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Only time I use cash is to reload the card for washing clothes since they give a 10% bonus and there is an ATM on the way.
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I hope they get there as quickly as possible. That way, the rest of the world will have a real world example of what a terrible idea it was.
And exactly how terrible is it?
I mean other than being more difficult to hide drug purchases and tax evasion and what not.
There were other reasons checks died (Score:2)
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When I was there in the 1990's I never bothered with cash and never noticed the EFT-POS fees he's complaining about either.
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At no point in my travels in Australia have I ever come across a minimum spend for eftpos either, and it appears I'm much older than you.
And Commonwealth English is not US English.
Or as it's known everywhere: Simplified English.
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Minimum card spend was a thing. You tended to see it in smaller business rather than larger chains. It's pretty much disappeared completely since Covid.
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He can't even spell cheque correctly.
Check is a legitimately recognised spelling. While being predominantly American English it is starting to be seen more and more in British circles simply because Americans are about the only people still using the thing.
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my favorite is watching this british youtuber living in america, talking about "why do americans spell X word as X' " and in ALL cases, it's the americans using the original spelling of the word and the "britsh english" was the one that changed the spelling over time.
Re: There were other reasons checks died (Score:2)
Yep. American English was occasionally simplified, but in more cases British English was deliberately made more poncy so as to reflect how superior the British thought they were to all other peoples... Somehow, even after photography became widespread and they could find out they were the most inbred people on the planet.
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No it's not. It's just another example of how many people can't spell. e.g. using "loose" for "lose", "moran" for "moron" etc. etc.
"Check" and "cheque" are two totally different words, with two totally different meanings.
Merriam-Webster begs to differ: https://www.merriam-webster.co... [merriam-webster.com]
A similar situation exists with "airplane" and "aeroplane". Either spelling is accepted in Commonwealth countries, although here in Canada the former is much more common. In the States, the latter is seldom used and would probably strike many people as simply wrong, even though it isn't.
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Re:There were other reasons checks died (Score:4, Informative)
These weren’t bank fees, but a state-level tax. It varied by state/territory, so it’s possible you were in a state without one. I was in the ACT in the late 90’s and I remember it well. My bank set me up with a seperate cheque and ‘savings’ account and when I wanted to write a cheque I moved money across from the savings account to minimise exposure to the tax.
I don’t know that it has a serious impact on the decline in cheque usage though - New Zealand had a similar decline, but no similar tax (there was a 5c stamp duty on each cheque at one point, but it wasn’t the pain point that the Australian definitely-not-a-tax was.)
I’ve found the Wikipedia article on it too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_account_debits_tax [wikipedia.org].
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How do you imagine they paid their bills?
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By the late 90s I for one paid most bills by direct debit. All the major utilities in Australia were able to run the bank tapes needed to enable this.
A few other recurring payments were taken care of by automatic payment (fill in a form at the bank, pay a small setup fee and the money comes out your account each fortnight or month)
Cheques were for one-offs and irregular bills - like say from a plumber or builder.
Checkbooks work during network outages (Score:2)
They work in natural disasters and save money where businesses charge extra for credit card purchases.
I have two cards, checking and carry about a grand in cash (its not some weird flex, no one else sees it) for cash buys of tools and equipment from private sellers.
Re:There were other reasons checks died (Score:4, Insightful)
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I thought it was still spelled "cheque" in the U.S. Huh.
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If I was posting in a forum that was, say, French or German only, I would do my best with my schoolboy French and German to try to accommodate the primary users of the forum (though when I've been in France and Germany, almost everyone I've met has better English than my command of the local language). Since US English and Commonwealth English are mutually intelligible, apart from minor squabbles over words such as "fanny", "biscuit", and "thong" - I literally consider it to be pretentious nonsense to attempt to emulate a different English dialect in a specific thread. I am speaking my language - US English - and others are speaking theirs - Commonwealth English - and the differences between these are well understood. Referring to those differences as errors is ludicrous, since nobody is truly confused; it is pedantry bordering on racism.
Language pedants are supremely ignorant about language. Particularly that they wail and gnash their teeth that everyone isn't speaking the exact kind of English they learned 10/20/30 odd years ago.
The first thing is that English is malleable. You can completely massacre it and a competent English speaker can still understand the message. This is the real power of the English language and what will keep it in usage as the international language of business for decades, if not centuries after the power of
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Irregardless is not a correct word. Fight me.
Re: There were other reasons checks died (Score:2)
All I see is words whose meaning is perfectly obvious in context.
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It's always been "check" in the US.
I have never seen it spelled "cheque" anywhere in the US, not at a bank, nor in general use by the population here.
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" I can live with the loss of "u"s in valour and colour"
color is OK, after all it is a reserved word in some computer languages. But honour has a u (without it its a women's name) but Labour must have a u and the Australian political party doesn't.
( I have never been to Australia, but I was born across the ditch:.)
"A check is a type of valve, or a mark you put beside a right answer or in a box on a form."
The mark you put for a right answer is a tick
But you are right about the thing you put in an envelope t
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Not in the US, it is a "check".
And when checking the box...you use a "checkmark".
So Oz is becoming even more of a nanny state (Score:2)
These weird new types of states that are just as controlling as say Iran or Saudi Arabia in some respects, but give you many of your rights, and the ones you don't have are "for your protection" - it's just so weird and creepy and 1984esque.
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Re:So Oz is becoming even more of a nanny state (Score:4, Insightful)
Soooo let me get this right, people choosing not to use cash makes them a nanny state?
You didn't get it right.
Choosing to not use cash is just choosing to not use cash.
The government forcing you to not use cash, for the stated purpose of looking at all of your transactions to make sure they are not for "criminal purposes", is a nanny state.
The term "nanny" is given to a person that looks after a small child not able to take care of themselves, usually when the parents have another task to do where they can't look after the child.
Choice isn't involved, the child has no say, just like the government forcing things on you.
Their stated goal is to stop criminal transactions. Do you often make criminal transactions? No? Well your government doesn't believe you are capable of making that choice, which is why they are making it for you.
That's what makes the government likened to a nanny.
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Soooo let me get this right, people choosing not to use cash makes them a nanny state?
No. Australia being a nanny state makes it a nanny state. You know, the kind of state that has laws on the book saying parents can be arrested if their 11 year old walks to school by themselves, and that every house regardless of who owns it or is in it needs a pool fence with a child proof gate.
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We have no government run bank, other than the reserve bank.
And yeah, this move to cashless is coming strictly from consumers. Frankly its easier, and safer, to just carry my phone around .
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Re: So Oz is becoming even more of a nanny state (Score:2)
When you make it not a right you are also forcing the use of electronic payment methods on people. That's why you have to preserve not just even but ESPECIALLY unpopular rights.
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I'm Australian.
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What a mangled point you're trying to make.
Trend seems odd (Score:2, Insightful)
Same here actually (Score:2)
I only use cash on rare occasions such as tipping hotel staff or stuff like that. Most days I have zero cash in my wallet so don’t try to rob me.
Re: Same here actually (Score:2)
Suddenly? The idea is generally that bank notes must be accepted to settle debts. Some of us even have it written on our money. That's the point of an official currency, you can use it to pay rent or bills or taxes and no one can tell you that you can't. And you can also use it to buy necessities. It's what gives faith in a currency.
Banks and Retailers (Score:3)
Less cash benefits Banks and the larger retailers. So they are punishing customers by increasing fees for using cards. It’s gotten to the point where I am tempted to go back to cash.
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Less cash isn't much of a benefit. No-cash is a *huge* benefit. Much harder for theft (both internal and external), no need to balance the till, no need to keep a float, no need to actually go to the bank.
You know, you can close up shop at 5 and actually leave at 5 rather than running errands solely required because you need to have cash.
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Why aren't the fees regulated? In the EU there was a crackdown on fees. Not just for banking and card transactions, but for things like international roaming costs that in reality cost the telecom companies close to nothing.
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You do not understand what the end goal is, so you are happy with cashless transactions.
The end goal is to analyze all of your spending habits to be able to charge you the maximum amount that you can afford.
In other words, you are helping to create a world where price is relative to your ability to pay rather than the cost of the item/service itself.
So you might have to pay $2,000 for a pair of socks whereas I might have to pay only $1699. It should be noted that the price to make the socks was $19. But don
Extrapolation is strong in this one... (Score:5, Insightful)
> Every year since ï1966 when the country transitioned from pounds and shillings to decimal currency, the total value and number of notes in circulation increased.
> That all came crashing to a halt in the 2022-23 financial year, with a sharp decrease in $50 notes especially.
So every year for 57 years it went up, and this year it went down, and that is then immediately extrapolated to "they're going cashless, mark my words!".
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Re:Extrapolation is strong in this one... (Score:4, Insightful)
In NZ at least (and I would have assumed Australia to be the same) ATMs now dispense $20s and $50s, whereas they used to only dispense $20s, so I would assume that, combined with inflation, has made $50s much more common. In other words, the $50 note is the new $20 and should be much more common as a result.
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The ATMs I use in Germany, usually have 5, 10, 20 and 50 EUR notes. In the more well-off towns they have 10, 20, 50 and 100 instead.
cheating spouses, your days are numbered! (Score:3)
Well the card record show you bought flowers, bought earrings, then dinner at that new expensive French restaurant.
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If you want to hide your purchases from your bank record, buy a gift card and use that to pay.
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Well the card record show you bought flowers
Why would the card record show that? It's entirely optional for you to use the same cashless system as someone you're hiding something from. Get a second card and another account.
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But cash is SO much simpler to use in this scenario....
None of the hoops you are suggesting they'd need to jump through.
Alternate currencies (Score:3)
I imagine there will be an influx of people working for currency substitutes - not gold or silver - but beer, tobacco, and contraband. It will mostly be prepaid credit cards at the start until the feds put some sort of controls on those. If you want someone to build you a back deck with no receipts (i.e. under the table), you might have to supply him/her with something of value with which they can quietly raise rent and grocery money.
Re:Alternate currencies (Score:4, Insightful)
I imagine there will be an influx of people working for currency substitutes - not gold or silver - but beer, tobacco, and contraband. It will mostly be prepaid credit cards at the start until the feds put some sort of controls on those. If you want someone to build you a back deck with no receipts (i.e. under the table), you might have to supply him/her with something of value with which they can quietly raise rent and grocery money.
This is the primary motivation. The under-the-table economy is huge and government would love to be able to track every dollar that ever moves from person to person. Wanna pay the neighbor kid to mow your lawn or shovel your snow? Now he needs a bank account where he can start paying fees and maybe even taxes before finishing grade school. Might as well learn early about the all seeing eye of the state.
Yet another sign (Score:3)
The media in Australia are owned by a very small group of vested interests who have resorted to fearbaiting the elderly to maintain a market share.
Ozzie money (Score:2)
Whose portrait will they put on the notes and coins when they become a Republic?
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US heading for cashless society too (Score:3)
wherein nobody will have any cash.
We need cash to buy drugs (Score:2)
Seriously, here in Sydney the only reason people hold cash is to pay their dealer. Or so I've been told ...
And the only time we ever see a cheque is when we get a refund from a company who hopes we won't bother to cash it in. Actually, most young Australians probably don't know what to do with a cheque.
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Do Australian mobile banking applications allow you to deposit a check by photo?
Probably. I don't know - I've only received a cheque once in the past 20 years.
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No need for panic, not happening anytime soon (Score:5, Interesting)
We'll stay a low-cash country, not no-cash. It's not just drugs (which are very popular here), pretty much any small business pays casual workers cash-in-hand. Not only would there be massive pushback from small business owners on a cash ban but it would be difficult to actually enforce. Even if you stop making new physical currency you still have to somehow collect the billions of dollars already in peoples possession.
If you think that will be easy, think again. Banks have been closing down branches for the last 20 years so it's not like you can always just walk in somewhere with grannies big jar of pennies and expect someone to actually count it. There's not even a guarantee that everyone has a bank account (we have rural, homeless, indigenous, elderly people who have never used banks - don't trust them, don't have an address, don't have ID, no local bank, etc).
I've only been in one business that was card-only and it was an American donut franchise - so, nothing of value lost there.
Frankly, the death of cash has been greatly exaggerated.
Cashless? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Market Driven (Score:2)
I'm sure the o
Consumption of drugs (Score:3)
They mean, prevent consumption of illicit drugs.
The Australian government has a restricted cash policy towards known addicts. This is viewed with suspicion because street markets, some buses and most school activities are cash-only.
I think about 10 years ago, there was an Australian article about street buskers needing to carry an EFTPoS machine to receive their gratuities.
Shops, however, enjoy not having to carry cash, trust employees with it, then count it and bank it.
That is not even close to Scandinavia (Score:2)
> meaning they claim to use cash for less than 20 per cent of all their in-person transactions.
Ok, they have a little way to go to catch up with the likes of Norway
> only 3 to 5% of all transactions are carried out using cash.
https://monevium.com/blog/top-5-european-countries-with-cashless-societies/ [slashdot.org]
and that data seems to be from 2019 (pre-pandemic). I suspect it is even less cash transations now.
One reason to hesitate with cashless. (Score:5, Insightful)
Say what you want about reserve currencies and inflationary politics, at least in a democracy there are mechanisms to address the problem. The same problems will recur in a thoroughly cashless system, but with total opacity and zero accountability. You can't punish them by taking out your money because there wouldn't be anything to take out.
Legal tender is an underappreciated political concept. It stops businesses from defrauding the entire economy and robbing consumers with private Funny Money. A fully cashless system would have to do a lot of very complicated things to offer the same protection.
Cashless could work (Score:2)
I think it was Mondex that tried a cashless system in Swindon, UK, whereby everyone had a digital card on which you could deposit cash. You could then treat it like cash, transferring to other people's cards, etc, all without any central bank involvement. A system like that could possibly be made to work today.
However, that's not the approach being followed by most attempts at going cashless, which tie people to the grid (bitcoin) or to a bank (debit card, credit card).
Sweeden is already cashless (Score:2)
Sweeden has been mostly cashless for a very long time. Most banks do not have nor do they accept or handle cash, most stores do no accept cash. The same trend is following in Denmark and Finland. Canada is also extremely cashless, with cash expected to make up 3% of transactions by 2025.
TL;DR, I don't know why this story is highlighting Australia as a leader here. They are catching up.
In my opinion, one of the fulcrums for moving all cashless is having a fictionles, fairly private, and 100% fee-free way to
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Indeed.
Cash here is so rare, that they made a news spot about Swedes and cash recently. They asked random strangers on the streets if they could recognize the various bills, almost no one got it right.
Personally I've not seen cash physically for the last 10+ years. Last time I used cash was when some stranger purchased a test-instrument from me and decided to give me old cash for it. The cash was so old it was almost expired, but I could still use it in ONE store to buy a 3D printer, but technically they we
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*you don't immediately pay a direct fee
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firstly no you don't pay a fee everytime you use a cashless system, sometimes you do but most major department stores, supermarkets etc do not charge a fee.
The stores pay the fee. It is hidden in the cost of whatever you are buying.
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You really adore that boot on your neck, don't you?
Re:I'm surprised *anyone* uses cash in Australia (Score:4, Insightful)
Government's favorite way of banning things is by claiming "only criminals use them".
Sad that you're incapable of seeing the red flag.
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And to be fair, if only criminals do use something then there's a good justification for it to be banned. It doesn't stop criminals, but it does make it harder. Not everyone in the world has an insane distrust for their government rooted in a history of telling the king to fuck off and then fighting a civil war. Many countries do not consider banning things a red flag.
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You misunderstand. The Australian government isn't banning anything. If anything, it's encouraging the use of cash by taxing electronic transactions higher (at least, for those people who "forget" to report cash transactions to the tax office).
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Only reason I carry cash is an emergency $50 I keep on my person (and not in my wallet).
Apart from that, I'd really rather not use cash. If I needed to be circumspect, though, the easy way to do so is to buy a Visa gift card and use that to buy dodgy shit. Also limits your exposure to card skimmers and such.