Why Fewer University Students Are Studying Mandarin (economist.com) 69
Ten years ago there was a growing interest in Mandarin, as China's influence and economic heft increased. Now Mandarin-learning is declining in many Western countries. In America, enrolment in university Mandarin courses fell by 21% between 2016 and 2020. An anonymous reader writes, citing an Economist story: That may be because job markets have changed. Translation tools like ChatGPT mean low-level Mandarin skills are not needed anymore. Bilingual Chinese graduates fill most roles that require a higher proficiency. But Western students may also be put off by China's government, which has become more oppressive in the past decade, making living in or working with China seem less appealing.
This shows that China's soft power is weak. But it is also a problem for Western governments, many of which say they need more Mandarin speakers. The CIA, for example, wants to double the number of Mandarin-speakers it employs. As China and its rivals struggle to get along, there is an ever greater need for mutual understanding. Being able to talk to each other might help.
This shows that China's soft power is weak. But it is also a problem for Western governments, many of which say they need more Mandarin speakers. The CIA, for example, wants to double the number of Mandarin-speakers it employs. As China and its rivals struggle to get along, there is an ever greater need for mutual understanding. Being able to talk to each other might help.
Second-hand knowledge (Score:2)
I worked with someone who studied Mandarin for years. Presumably, there is a certificate that you need to get from the Chinese Gov't to do business in Mandarin. All I know is he worked on learning the language for years, maybe that's part of the reason too. I think it's called the BCT (Business Chinese Test). [csulb.edu]
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Rhyming again (Score:5, Interesting)
The same thing happened after the 1989 Tiananmen Massacre.
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Obvious reason ... (Score:5, Funny)
Ten years ago there was a growing interest in Mandarin, ...
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so we could understand the swear words on Firefly.
I'll take great sci-fi shows that died too early for $500 Alex.
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"All good things must come to an end" (Score:1)
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Well, frak that...
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Well, frak that...
Or, frell that. I'm partial to both. :-)
Eh? (Score:2)
"This shows that China's soft power is weak. But it is also a problem for Western governments, many of which say they need more Mandarin speakers. The CIA, for example, wants to double the number of Mandarin-speakers it employs".
So, logically, it must follow that Western governments want China's "soft power" to become stronger.
Although I don't think it can be in China's interest for the CIA to have more people who speak its language. Quite the contrary. One of China's greatest advantages is that it must be
Re: Eh? (Score:1)
No. Some of us are learning Mandarin for adversarial purposes. I can't speak for the CIA but I think their motivation is basically the same as mine for cybersecurity: Keep your ear to the ground. I have little/no interest beyond that.
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One of my college TA's had a free ride because he was learning Pashtun. I don't think the CIA wanted him to keep his Pashtun skills up to support southern Afghanistani tribal power in the early 1990s.
Re: Eh? (Score:2)
Curiously, any Westerner that can pass as a Chinese is called "Chinese" or "Chinese-something" in their countries.
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sorry I don't have upvotes (Score:3, Funny)
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Re: Eh? (Score:2)
Until the moment they start to talk. Then, it becomes instantly obvious they're American, Canadian, etc. unless their parents were literally immigrants who spoke Mandarin at home.
Even American & British English still reveal where you grew up . A kid born in Florida to British-immigrant parents might cultivate a posh RP accent that's good enough to fool other Americans, but his word choices & usage will still give him away as non-British.
Just to give one example, saying with a posh accent, "My mum's
More oppressive in the past decade? (Score:4, Interesting)
More worthless group think echo chamber tripe from Teh Economist. China has not become "more oppressive" in the "last decade." Thirty two years ago China was crushing students with armor.
As to the point of the story, people aren't studying Mandarin because the Chinese are studying English and so you don't need Mandarin for 99% of you're dealings with China, and the last 1% you can paper over with Google Translate. It's not about "soft power" or any other gobbledygook that exists exclusively inside your head. It's just not worth people's time to learn entire languages for no benefit.
Re:More oppressive in the past decade? (Score:5, Insightful)
And learning a second language is far from not beneficial. You don't really understand your own language until you've learned at least one other. BTW, the majority of people in the world are bilingual. Monolingualism is the anomally & societies that promote it are culturally & intellectually impoverished as a result.
Re: More oppressive in the past decade? (Score:3)
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Please name anyone in history who has learned an "entire language."
Groot -- and his companions?
Rocket Raccoon: Well [Groot] don't know talkin' good like me and you, so his vocabulistics is limited to "I" and "am" and "Groot." Exclusively in that order.
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But that is soft power. It's worthwhile for French or Japanese people to study English because the internet is mostly English, international business is done in English, the most popular global cultural products are in English, etc. Meanwhile, basically nobody outside China cares about Chinese works (I'm saying this as a part time Chinese translator).
Also, there's 3.4 million Americans who speak Mandarin or Cantonese or some other dialect fairly well or fluently. There's very few jobs that really need Ch
Re:More oppressive in the past decade? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure the CCP has always been despotic. But a lot has happened in the years since that make the CCP in 1989 look quite good.
- Hong Kong returned and now completely subjugated.
- African belt and road initiative (power projection)
- Massive attempts to wipe out minority communities and culture (Uyghurs and others)
- CCP's companies supply tech to virtually everyone these days such that we are completely dependent on them, although they are just as dependent on the west to fund what growth they do have.
- brazen intimidation of expats (who are often citizens of western countries) with illegal police stations.
- manipulation of foreign media and even governments and elections to control what people outside china think of the CCP.
- the traditional, moderating check on power limiting a president to 10 years has been dismantled by Xi, who's now dictator for life.
But on the bright side, Xi and the CCP's hold on power is tenuous as the economy crumbles, and unemployment and discontent rise among the young people. So I think encouraging others to learn Mandarine is a good thing. It will help the west connect better with Chinese people and earn their respect. But I agree learning it for business reasons is probably not so great these days.
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Esperanto.....Klingon....etc.
Absolutely yes, more oppressive (Score:2)
You have got to be kidding me. Which is it: are you an ignoramus or a shill?
Though there were certainly exceptions, during much of Zemin's and Jintao's administrations, China seemed to be moving towards more personal freedom and towards less oppression of groups not closely aligned with the Party and Han supremacy. These leaders and their premiers also seemed less interested in consolidating autocratic power for themselves. In foreign policy it seemed quite possible that China's development would be a globa
More schools should teach it! (Score:4)
I'm in Ontario, Canada, where we force school age children to learn the outdated and obscure "Quebec French" language / dialect. We do this because of a terrible decision to worship everything French simply to appease a cultural demand from part of our country, that our coward filled government bows too constantly.
If you look at language popularity by number of speakers, French is a ridiculous language to indoctrinate a young child on, when it's not the primary language of the country:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Whereas Mandarin is a very sensible choice, because the chances you need to use Mandarin over an obscure French dialect is likely, and yet in Canada we brainwash children into believing the French language is special. We should switch our language studies around, so children take Mandarin as the secondary language, and save French for secondary and post second language study.
Objectively the number of times I've had to use French in my daily life since primary school, to have a serious discussion, maybe 5, and only because I got connected to the wrong call centre line, and in 1 case, literary 1, to sleep with a hot French girl. The number of times I've used Mandarin, which I'm not fluent in but can get by, dozens of times, if not 100+.
Re:More schools should teach it! (Score:5, Interesting)
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If you want to appeal to practicality, you should learn Spanish. There are increasing numbers of hispanic refugees going through the USA to reach Canada. You can walk to someplace people speak Spanish.
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Los the myth (Score:5, Insightful)
Ever since the 1970's, there were myths that the USA was losing it's position and that other countries were overtaking it.
For a while people thought Japan would take over, then later on China became the boogeyman. Someone even made this wierd commercial pretending to be the future where China was America's master.
Some decided that speaking Chinese would give you the same kind of benefits in the future that non-Americans currently get for speaking English. That is, being able to talk with the large, wealthy, powerful nation that has a disproportionate political power.
That myth has lost it's luster. With China's economic downturn, people no longer think that the US is doomed to become China's servant.
With India landing on the Moon, they have in many ways taken over China's old position as the up and coming nation. If India did not already have a large English speaking population, I suspect that college kids would now be told to learn Hindu.
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I suspect that college kids would now be told to learn Hindu.
That would be Hindi.
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It's not necessarily a myth or a random prediction. The primary basis of economic power is population size, and China have the biggest one. It's not a fluke that China was an economic powerhouse and a dominant power for much of history.
Japan on the other hand had a smaller population than the US and much less land and resources, so that prediction had much less merit.
Even if China doesn't become the biggest superpower, it's obvious they will remain one of the major players regardless. Just like the US will
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What a load of nonsense. China's economy in "downturn"? You mean on track for 6.3% growth this year, instead of the 7.5% they were predicted? Most Western countries would kill for 6.3% growth.
As for India's Moon landing, China already landed a rover on the moon. Years ago. They have a space station too, and have now demonstrated most of the technologies needed to land humans on the Moon.
The reason Mandarin is now less popular is because of years of anti-China propaganda. Some of it is justified, the governm
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1) 6.3 growth? what propaganda mill have you be reading.
Read this: https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/21... [cnn.com]
2) I do not deny that China did REAL well 20 years ago. It even did reasonably well 5 years ago. That was when China built the craft that landed on the moon. But that was 3 years ago. Over the past 3 years, their growth has vanished.
3) China clamped down hard on everyone, particularly their tech guys, sending several of them to jail. Their stock market fell. The real estate industry discovered that sell
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This is why we keep getting beaten. Look at 5G, or EV batteries. China was dismissed as only being able to copy, and then suddenly they have the key patents and the best products, and we are years away from catching up.
Need vs Want (Score:3)
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Agreed. Not to mention, you are going to be competing with millions of Chinese that know better Mandarin, the Chinese culture better, and good enough English.
A company is going to want their external communication to be native so a native chinese speaker with passable english is a better candidate for most chinese speaking jobs than a native english speaker with passable chinese.
The only real exception is CIA and other national security type jobs and even then most positions, a native chinese speaker migh
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Agreed. Not to mention, you are going to be competing with millions of Chinese that know better Mandarin, the Chinese culture better, and good enough English.
It's correct that any American who learns Chinese as a secondary language will never approach native fluency. Even those that are really good will never pass for a native. But that's not the purpose. The reason for learning Chinese is to add a communications skill to existing American skills and background to produce a set of skills that no native Chinese has. This enhanced skill set has benefits for Americans who wish to interact with or analyze Chinese, either for business, cultural, governmental, or
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It is unwise to study a language spoken... (Score:2)
Or maybe because it's not offered? (Score:2)
West Virginia University is planning to make big cuts to programs, including their entire foreign language program. The GOP has been meddling in public education all over the country and it wouldn't surprise me if language education is getting cut elsewhere.
https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]
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But this cutting of liberal arts programs at universities? It’s not because of conservatives. The problem is that
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The problem is WVU is not the republicans. It's the crappy university president. He's not an educator, he's a fund-raiser parasite. WVU could balance its budget by firing his "friends".
Hey Slashdotters: is *YOUR* (current/former) university infected with a fund-raiser? Was that the most important aspect of the university hiring committee? If your university president isn't a (current/former) educator, your university has been infected with a fund-raiser. Expect bad things to follow.
It's also just really hard. (Score:3)
Re: It's also just really hard. (Score:1)
Strange narrative. (Score:1)
US is claiming that China is the West greatest challenge, perhaps ever.
When USSR was the West's greatest challenge, Russian was very popular language to learn, if for no reason than to able to know more about your so called enemy.
Re: Strange narrative. (Score:2)
Arabic and Pashto were popular courses of study about 20 years ago too. Funny how that works.
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I don't think that is true. It so happens that my high school did offer Russian, but that was very rare. Usual fare was German, French, Spanish.
In colleges, government demand for spies may have been different, but I did not see much interest in Russian there, either, compared to the same three above.
Well, there is this (Score:1)
Why would anyone want to do business with this dic (Score:1)
*Taps forehead* (Score:1)
Multilingualism (Score:2)
...boosts brain power by forcing the brain to develop more connections and, according to some reports, encouraging neurogenesis (ie: more brain cells).
What the West absolutely should not do is allow any nation to basically out-power them in mental capacity. It is absolutely critical that the West encourage people to think and develop, rather than stagnate and let their brains rot.
correct perception (Score:2)
Apparently, the effect is the result of the correct perception that demand for Mandarin is decreasing, while forgiveness of student loans is also decreasing.
The NSA needs more Mandarin speakers (Score:2)
because talking to each other might help mutual understanding"