Researcher Shows Bodies of Purported 'Non-Human' Beings To Mexican Congress at UFO Hearing (cbsnews.com) 175
A journalist and researcher on unidentified anomalous phenomena (UAP), or UFOs as they're better known, presented the remains of purported "non-human" beings to lawmakers in Mexico on Tuesday during the country's first public congressional hearing on the topic. From a report: Jamie Maussan brought two boxes containing what he said were the small, stuffed bodies of extraterrestrials recovered in Peru in 2017. He said carbon-14 dating carried out by the National Autonomous University of Mexico had determined the remains were 700 and 1,800 years old. Each of the figures has only three fingers on each hand and elongated heads, resembling, at least superficially, the Hollywood-born character ET.
"This is the first time it (extraterrestrial life) is presented in such a form and I think there is a clear demonstration that we are dealing with non-human specimens that are not related to any other species in our world," Maussan told the lawmakers, urging them to consider the topic, which he said should not be viewed as "a political topic -- it's a topic for humanity." He said DNA evidence could prove the specimens were not of this planet, but it wasn't clear if any such tests had been carried out. At least one previous claim by Maussan about purported "non-human" remains discovered in Peru has been debunked, though the specimens he presented Tuesday in Mexico City appeared different to the one he previously spoke about in 2015.
"This is the first time it (extraterrestrial life) is presented in such a form and I think there is a clear demonstration that we are dealing with non-human specimens that are not related to any other species in our world," Maussan told the lawmakers, urging them to consider the topic, which he said should not be viewed as "a political topic -- it's a topic for humanity." He said DNA evidence could prove the specimens were not of this planet, but it wasn't clear if any such tests had been carried out. At least one previous claim by Maussan about purported "non-human" remains discovered in Peru has been debunked, though the specimens he presented Tuesday in Mexico City appeared different to the one he previously spoke about in 2015.
I mean, would be interesting, but ... (Score:5, Insightful)
If this guy already made a claim before about extraterrestrial life that was debunked? Why would I suddenly believe him now?
It's great that physical evidence is presented that can be DNA tested and whatnot. But I would assume they'll conclude this is something other than an alien life-form.
Re:I mean, would be interesting, but ... (Score:5, Insightful)
"If this guy already made a claim before about extraterrestrial life that was debunked? Why would I suddenly believe him now?"
I don't know the details of his previous claim but most research paths turn out to be false. The word 'debunked' is just a biased term for something that happens daily in legitimate investigation by legitimate researchers.
They've done the carbon dating and are inviting the DNA analysis. Nothing sketchy about that. Let the results and the facts drive the conversation not fallacies based on the messenger.
Re:I mean, would be interesting, but ... (Score:5, Insightful)
"If this guy already made a claim before about extraterrestrial life that was debunked? Why would I suddenly believe him now?"
I don't know the details of his previous claim but most research paths turn out to be false. The word 'debunked' is just a biased term for something that happens daily in legitimate investigation by legitimate researchers.
They've done the carbon dating and are inviting the DNA analysis. Nothing sketchy about that. Let the results and the facts drive the conversation not fallacies based on the messenger.
Because when finding something slightly weird the null hypothesis isn't "OMG I FOUND ALIENS".
Do you really think the odds that a DNA test will point to anything other than a terrestrial origin is >= 1%?
And I'm not saying 1% because those are the real odds (more like 0.00[random number of zeros]1%). I'm saying 1% because you don't say "I FOUND X" if the odds are 1%.
A legitimate researcher finds the weird thing, does a thorough investigation, and only makes an extraordinary claim when the evidence strongly points in that direction.
They don't claim aliens before even sequencing the DNA.
Re: I mean, would be interesting, but ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Do aliens HAVE DNA? Seems like being able to _do_ the test is something of a disqualifier, unless you believe in the panspermia theory.
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There are lots of unknowns there. We have a single example of life evolving on a world. Who knows what is possible, or what features life elsewhere might share with ours.
It's not going to be cut and dried, most likely, when we do find out, and there will be skeptics under any imaginable scenario.
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Yup, there isn't really a hard limit on skepticism. The question of whether or not there would be DNA is a good one but if they fail to extract DNA that isn't going to convince anyone of anything.
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You won't find that out until you try to do the test. Aside from panspermia there is also the possibility that some of the basics of life here are simply the inevitable consequence of the chemistry needed to support life and thus will be in common with life or at least life we'd recognize, elsewhere.
Re: I mean, would be interesting, but ... (Score:5, Funny)
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I'm guessing the odds of DNA tests ever actually happening are less than 1%, regardless of what the guy's saying now. He knows what he has, and he's been burned before.
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"A legitimate researcher finds the weird thing, does a thorough investigation, and only makes an extraordinary claim when the evidence strongly points in that direction.
They don't claim aliens before even sequencing the DNA."
That depends on what you consider legitimate. He's not someone digging who found bones and then jumped to aliens, he's someone looking for aliens and found bodies in a place which matches other evidence consistent with historical visitation and which are not yet identifiable as somethin
Re:I mean, would be interesting, but ... (Score:4, Informative)
"found bodies in a place which matches other evidence consistent with historical visitation "
Stop watching TV, bad for you, make you gullible. There is no "other evidence". These are probably Andean mummies, of which there are several discovered. As to head proportions, all it take is a funny burial to misshape a skull. Maybe the people cut fingers off for a ceremony before offing their loved ones. These scenarios are more believable than aliens.
Re:I mean, would be interesting, but ... (Score:5, Funny)
Them: You can't explain this!
Me: Have you tried?
Them: No!
Re:I mean, would be interesting, but ... (Score:5, Informative)
What statistics are that? There's no empirical data to build a statistical model on except one single data-point: Life on Earth.
All we have are assumptions based on a lot of guesses which essentially amounts to diddly squat.
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If there is no statistical model then how can anyone say with any certainty that "These scenarios are more believable than aliens." when there is no way to tell how likely it is that aliens exist.
Re: I mean, would be interesting, but ... (Score:3)
That's not at issue.
We have looked at a ton of DNA from weird looking corpses and all of them have turned out to be terrestrial.
The best assumption is that other weird looking corpses we examine will fit the same pattern.
By all means, do the testing... just don't get the money out of my pocket.
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The claim is not that aliens exist. It's that aliens exist here on this planet and have scattered at least a few of their dead bodies around.
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Re: I mean, would be interesting, but ... (Score:2)
There may be billions of spacecraft whizzing around the Milky Way from thousands of civilisations but have we got any way of detecting them?
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"A legitimate researcher finds the weird thing, does a thorough investigation, and only makes an extraordinary claim when the evidence strongly points in that direction.
They don't claim aliens before even sequencing the DNA."
That depends on what you consider legitimate. He's not someone digging who found bones and then jumped to aliens, he's someone looking for aliens and found bodies in a place which matches other evidence consistent with historical visitation and which are not yet identifiable as something else.
Well his track record isn't great [snopes.com].
There are no shortage of people who currently do not consider ANY search for extraterrestrial life 'legitimate' regardless of how it is conducted and that could well impair his ability to get/pay for a DNA analysis [especially from a source which is neutral] and the perspective you've just given is why.
He can fund expeditions to get the bodies but he can't get anyone to analyze the DNA?
I think it's perfectly possible to do a legitimate search for extra-terrestrial life, but that's not what this guy is doing.
They've done an analysis of the skeleton, undoubtedly ruled out many other possibilities, and they've done the carbon dating. The next step is DNA analysis and the congressional hearing isn't pending his DNA analysis, it is today.
The bodies were uncovered a decade ago, the timeline isn't an excuse.
Thus he is presenting what he has today and the evidence he has to date. If the DNA evidence shows these to be humans then he will no doubt keep looking and find more potential bodies to rule out while seeking to prove his hypothesis.
He's presenting the evidence he has that doesn't contradict aliens. It's also pretty consistent with the previous "aliens" he's shown off that turned out to be human.
I wouldn't be surprised if he's ei
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They've done an analysis of the skeleton, undoubtedly ruled out many other possibilities, and they've done the carbon dating. The next step is DNA analysis and the congressional hearing isn't pending his DNA analysis, it is today. Thus he is presenting what he has today and the evidence he has to date. If the DNA evidence shows these to be humans then he will no doubt keep looking and find more potential bodies to rule out while seeking to prove his hypothesis.
Actually, it seems if they had done an analysis of the skeleton it would have revealed it's constructed of bones of different animals [reddit.com].
Of course, that's seems to be a pretty easy thing to detect, meaning this guy is not only not a "legitimate researcher", but he's either so incompetent as to not realize he has some weird ancient ritual/art project or it's his hoax.
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And no matter the investigation findings, the conclusions ill remain that it's alien. Ie, they find that it's 99.999% human DNA, the just claim "omg, proof that extraterrestrials were our progenitors!" Whatever the opposite of Occam's Razor is, it's being employed here.
But if you do use Occam's Razor, then apply known ideas such that some early South American cultures "modified" mummies, engaged in body modifications, birth defects are a real thing, and so forth, then there's no reason to jump to an "Alie
Use a Microscope (Score:3)
Re:I mean, would be interesting, but ... (Score:5, Insightful)
They've done the carbon dating and are inviting the DNA analysis. Nothing sketchy about that.
No? Are these specimens assumed to have lived on Earth their whole lives, and therefore the assumption of C-14 uptake is valid, and the same as for most other living things? Or are they assumed to have come to Earth and died, and therefore C-14 dating is almost entirely useless? Or are these datings of surrounding materials, such as plants which died on/near the bodies?
__Very__ sketchy. Also, I'd LOVE to see what "DNA" analysis comes up with.
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So much this. Anyone who claims to be a researcher of stuff dug out of the ground should know how radiocarbon dating works, and why it would be completely useless for dating anything of extraterrestrial origin. That alone tells me he's not qualified for this. (Or is qualified and is hoping his audience isn't.)
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Re:I mean, would be interesting, but ... (Score:5, Interesting)
This guy Maussan demonstrates that he's full of bunk just through a few statements. Even without the fact that his previous "alien" turned out to be a human child. He has stated that these mummies are up to 1800 years old, but he has also said that they are "fossilized". They're clearly not fossilized and fossilization does not happen that quickly. He has also said that 30% of their DNA is "unknown". That means that 70% of their DNA is human. It does not mean that the other 30% is non-human, just that they have not been able to sequence it, which would not be unusual in a mummy, but especially not if they were actually "fossilized". It's obvious that this is someone who knows nothing about paleontology or archaeology.
The facts of this case are that he is jumping the gun on proclaiming these to be alien corpses when all he actually has is an absence of evidence. There may be nothing sketchy about DNA analysis or carbon dating taken in isolation but, all together this whole thing is completely sketchy! It's frankly alarming that, in this day and age, this sort of side-show hucksterism makes it in front of actual government bodies.
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Evidently other researchers believed that the earlier "body" was assembled from looted body parts.
https://www.livescience.com/62... [livescience.com]
Re: I mean, would be interesting, but ... (Score:2)
very sketchy when a known proven fraudster claims DNA or other tests will be done. This is just exhibit of props worthy of haunted house or circus funhouse... or third world craphole's congress
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While I stand by my previous statement... further review shows this guy claims DNA testing happened and is 30% unknown. There is no way that is real.
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You can find videos online debunking the "alien" shown here as just a bunch of human and animal bones stuck together
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The presumption that they have DNA is interesting to say the least. What makes us think alien life has DNA?
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Re: I mean, would be interesting, but ... (Score:2)
Artificial DNA Bases (Score:3)
Or might DNA not be the same on another planet?
Given that we have already made artificial DNA with base pairs that do not exist in nature [wikipedia.org] it seems very possible that if DNA evolves on another planet it may well have different bases to the four that we know on Earth. Although, given that we know more bases are possible in DNA it may also be the case that there is a good reason why there are only four used on Earth.
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You don't have to believe him, he just wants you to talk about him so that more and more people pay attention, which ultimately could lead to some additional income.
DNA (Score:3)
Re:DNA (Score:5, Insightful)
would it though? convergent evolution exists in species, why not with the fundamental building blocks of life?
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would it though? convergent evolution exists in species, why not with the fundamental building blocks of life?
Convergent evolution means that creatures look the same and have similar characteristics. It doesn't mean their DNA is the same.
Just because environment factors direct a response in the physical appearance (two arms to swing in a vine, big teeth to kill prey, etc) does not mean the internals evolved in anywhere close to the same way. ARM and X86 are both processors, but they do not run compatible code.
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well, isn't it at its root, the same phenomenon? Similar problems/environments leading to similar solutions. And, DNA is an elegant and efficient solution to that particular problem
That said, don't read my comment as implying it's a given, or even likely for that matter -- just that maybe, just maybe it's not impossible for life to evolve on separate occasions based on DNA.
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well, isn't it at its root, the same phenomenon? Similar problems/environments leading to similar solutions. And, DNA is an elegant and efficient solution to that particular problem
That said, don't read my comment as implying it's a given, or even likely for that matter -- just that maybe, just maybe it's not impossible for life to evolve on separate occasions based on DNA.
The point is, they may not have DNA at all. Just because they look similar to us doesn't even mean they would have to be carbon based (like us). They could be silicon based for example.
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Convergent evolution means that similarities occur in species adapted under the same condition. For example, carcinization (the development of crablike characteristics) . The basic crab shape has evolved at least five times from different arthropods However, despite this convergent evolution, the DNA of those creatures is quite different (aside from the stuff from common ancestors). Another example of convergent evolution is bats and birds. Definitely convergent evolution, but definitely different DNA. Wher
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Not necessarily. It isn't even a given that life as we know it originated here or that similar chemical composition isn't inevitable.
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The diversity of genomes even among members of the same Phylum here on Earth strongly suggests really, really long statistical odds that an alien would have DNA that's even remotely humanlike.
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In relative terms I'd consider having *any* DNA or even a recognizable counterpart to it as being 'like ours.'
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Well, DNA is actually a pretty simple class of molecules. The four bases of DNA arise naturally in all kinds of environments. So it would not be unexpected to find DNA and RNA all over the Universe. There may well be other bases for life that we just don't know about because, on our world, DNA and RNA based life took off first and ate everything else. We just don't know. Still, if aliens turned out to be DNA or RNA based, I would not be that surprised. I would be highly surprised though if they had signific
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Naa, that would expose the scam! Obviously, you are new at this.
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That they had DNA like ours in and of itself would nearly disqualify them for being extraterrestrial.
Pish posh. Didn't you watch Prometheus?
Mulder and Sculley - you are needed in Mexico (Score:2)
Ah, the smoking man was right after all....
Much the opposite (Score:5, Interesting)
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To the believers, the aliens don't look like the movies, the movies look like the aliens (because, after all, tales of alien abduction are true, and that's where the movies got those images).
And nothing will dissuade them, ever. If these "alien bodies" turned out to be piñatas full if Tootsie Rolls, they would retreat to some kind of conspiracy theory to hide the "TRVTH."
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I mean, that's one way to look at it. Using that logic, how do we know they aren't here already and we just can't perceive them? It's a bit of a stretch.
Another is that, if evolutionary theory is true, there's some underlying universal rule which governs such things. Presumably, a planet with similar inputs - levels of CO2, O2, argon, etc. - with similar planet sizes would result much the same "survival of the fittest". We can probably "safely" assume a couple things:
* There would be some resemblance to -so
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If the universe is teeming with strange life we might expect to only recognize the ones that evolved convergently to us.
No panspermia required though that's a very open question too.
We can't assume anything about the type or number yet.
Ah yes, this guy. (Score:5, Informative)
In June 2017, Maussan was involved in the analysis of 5 mummies discovered in Peru at the region where the UNESCO World Heritage Nazca Lines site is located. The images of these findings were initially aired in a documentary sponsored by Gaia, Inc. and it allegedly shows a crouched mummified body of a humanoid figure with an elongated skull and three fingers on each hand and foot. Snopes reported that Maussan "led an event called Be Witness, at which a mummified body — purportedly that of an alien — was unveiled. Later, though, that 'alien' discovery was debunked. The mummified corpse was shown to be that of a human child.".
Dudes like this should be on a deny-list for having their name posted in news stories.
It's fake everyone. Go home.
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it allegedly shows a crouched mummified body of a humanoid figure with an elongated skull
Apparently Stewie's time travel escapades got the best of him.
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José Jaime Maussan Flota, Mexican journalist, television personality and ufologist.
In June 2017, Maussan was involved in the analysis of 5 mummies discovered in Peru at the region where the UNESCO World Heritage Nazca Lines site is located. The images of these findings were initially aired in a documentary sponsored by Gaia, Inc. and it allegedly shows a crouched mummified body of a humanoid figure with an elongated skull and three fingers on each hand and foot. Snopes reported that Maussan "led an event called Be Witness, at which a mummified body — purportedly that of an alien — was unveiled. Later, though, that 'alien' discovery was debunked. The mummified corpse was shown to be that of a human child.".
Dudes like this should be on a deny-list for having their name posted in news stories.
It's fake everyone. Go home.
Aborted babies.
The elongated skull is from the hook they used to pull the baby out. Its tragic and disgusting to parade the mummified corpses of innocent babies in front of people, claiming they are 'aliens'.
They always assume they will look human (Score:2)
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Simple: Otherwise they become less interesting. This whole thing is an elaborate scam, hence all the figures in it must be relatable.
Fiji mermaid (Score:2)
What a coincidence (Score:2)
Amazing coincidence that they are to human scale and have symmetric body geometry just like we do.
I mean how stupid is this congress to have even admitted this guy to speak?
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They aren't to human scale. The picture of the two side by side has a dude's head behind the one on the right and despite being further back it appears nearly as large as body. But they are to the scale of being like the bodies this guy presented last time... aborted baby scale.
Oh my (Score:2)
When my child was 8 years old he could have created better looking fakes out of PlayDough. Laying them in dirt and sprinkling dirt all over them was a nice touch though. LOL I can't believe the Mexican government allowed this sideshow to happen.
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So? (Score:2)
Ever heard of genetic abnormalities? It requires a lot more to make an even remotely convincing claim of "extraterrestrial".
Researcher? (Score:3, Insightful)
As a side note... (Score:4)
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Strange that CBS blurred the pic; did they think the aliens were conservatives? ;)
Here's a much clearer photo of "Sandy" from Fox news.
Better quality mummy pic [foxnews.com]
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What kind of person... (Score:3)
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Well, a DNA test would show no DNA; wouldn't that be interesting.
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I think it would be extremely interesting if he sent a significant amount of biological remains and the result was "there is no DNA there (while there should)".
Illegal Aliens (Score:2)
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and we'd probably grant these asylum too =/
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There is no need to grant asylum, literally anyone can walk across the border and fill out the form then get released into the population with no tracking and then just skip the hearing.
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Sure that's how it actually works. It's not supposed to work that way though. Once they skip the hearing, they're "illegal". Not that anyone ever worries about it.
writers strike (Score:2)
Thanks for this guy to provide some nice sf to fill the void created by the hollywood writers and actors strikes.
Known hoax artist (Score:5, Informative)
Headline should be "Known Hoax Artist Perjures Himself on Live TV".
I think when all is said and done, this will be the peak of his career and beginning of his downfall.
I spent some time digging in to this, and not only are the "aliens" a lot like his previous hoaxes, the "journalism" surrounding it is really sketchy with a lot of science word salad like "carbon dating to extract DNA". LOL, IANAmolecular biologist but I know that carbon dating and DNA extraction are two wildly different things. Then there's the "30% DNA unknown" which to me just says "contaminated sample", which is probably what you'd get if you glue human mummy parts to mummified animal remains. I mean, 30% unknown means 60% known, which should get you right there unless you want to believe it's real that badly.
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I mean, 30% unknown means 60% known, which should get you right there unless you want to believe it's real that badly.
I see your 60% known, and raise you to 70%.
"A journalist and researcher on UAPs" (Score:4)
Aka, a crackpot, who already displayed "mummified aliens" in 2017 that was proved to actually just be a human child.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Fucking news media will report on any ridiculous bullshit that gets clicks.
Carbon dating won't work for aliens (Score:2)
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Attention grabbing as the currency of modern media (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the result of having attention grabbing for likes, ads and getting some AI to rank your article higher as the main currency of modern media: find some idiot who makes some exceptional unbelievable claim and you will get more attention than by something from a reasonable guy telling everyone what nonsense that is.
Seems this is getting worse and worse and has already infected politics as well a longer while ago as was demonstrated to the world by having an incompetent narcissistic attention (and pussy) grabber get voted to be US president.
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"News" is a business, and it is not the business of selling news, it's the business of selling ads.
Keep that in mind, and it all makes sense.
How odd. (Score:2)
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Looks like Ted Cruz without his human skin outfit.
Not political (Score:2)
It's not political, so you're presenting the hoax to a legislative body so that they can enact new policies to account for aliens. Got it, not political at all, except for 100% of it.
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It's 100% political now (Nuclear Secrets Act of 1954 and treaties).
If you believe it should not be political you're going to have to engage politically to change that. Plus free TV coverage (and this article, see?).
Another way would be nice to have.
As an American I will not stand for this (Score:2)
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Next on Ancient Aliens... (Score:2)
Ask Gary Nolan (Score:3)
Gary Nolan (prof at Stanford) disproved the alien hypothesis in the Atakama skeletons, much to the dismay of many.
The similarities to a Russian specimen were very suspicioua and he basically identified a new genetic disease that disrupts developmental connective tissue growth.
That is good science and only dummies call him a "debunker"
They won't ask Gary because they don't want to take the chance of being wrong again.
They accuse him of a cover-up in the previous case which is hilarioua because Gary is open about having experienced a close encounter as a child.
No imagination at all... (Score:2)
crackpots or stooges? (Score:2)
More fake alien bodies (Score:2)
Keep Fry away from it! (Futurama) (Score:2)
Futurama mummy [youtube.com]
Ah, those sound like Arquilians (Score:2)
This kind of crap is an embarrassment to humanity. (Score:2)
Isodope Ratios (Score:2)
Carbon is not the only element with interesting isotopes. Before trying DNA (why not?) drop a sample in the mass-spec and measure them. Chlorine, Calcium, Magnesium, Iron and others all have stable isotopes with known terrestrial prevalences. If multiple ratios are off, that indicates ET likely. If not, it is more likely la chupacabra (xupakabra?) and you might as well sequence the DNA!
I recognize them! (Score:3)
It's Mitch McConnell and Dianne Feinstein.