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Transportation United States

EV Buyers Will Get an Instant Rebate of as Much as $7,500 Starting in 2024 (theverge.com) 145

Posted by msmash from the moving-forward dept.
The Treasury Department released new guidance Friday outlining how car dealers can give customers instant access to the electric vehicle rebate starting in January 2024. It's the latest move by the Biden administration to bring down the cost of EVs in the hopes that more people will buy them. From a report: The new guidance lays out how dealers can effectively reduce the price of an EV by as much as $7,500 at the point of purchase rather than the customer having to wait until they file their taxes to claim the credit. The administration hopes that by applying the credit immediately, more people will be convinced to consider an EV for their next purchase, which will help toward achieving the goal of making EVs 50 percent of new car sales by 2030.
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EV Buyers Will Get an Instant Rebate of as Much as $7,500 Starting in 2024 More

EV Buyers Will Get an Instant Rebate of as Much as $7,500 Starting in 2024

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  • And car dealers (Score:5, Insightful)

    by IWantMoreSpamPlease ( 571972 ) on Friday October 06, 2023 @12:44PM (#63906189) Homepage Journal

    will increase the price of EVs by 8k, citing "reasons"

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Hah! Exactly. Just like anytime there is a support plan for subsidizing college tuition the cost of college mysteriously goes up to match the plan.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by edwdig ( 47888 )

        That's why we've spent the past 40 or so years repeatedly slashing funding to colleges. College used to be something you could afford by working a part time job, but thanks to our repeated funding cuts, an education often results in a lifetime of debt. I can't image how much college would cost if we did something crazy like fund it. No one could afford it then!

    • Market forces are supposed to theoretically help.
      In so far as the dealer that decides be honest should sell cars like hotcakes.

    • Are you saying the free market won’t fix this?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dfghjk ( 711126 )

      Precisely what Tesla does without dealers.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by irving47 ( 73147 )

      Immediately, if not sooner. They already F'd customers by raising the prices (I think it was Tesla) the moment the government passed an extension or increase on the amount of refund.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mspohr ( 589790 )

        Tesla has been lowering prices on all its cars for the past year. Now cheaper than ever.

    • will increase the price of EVs by 8k, citing "reasons"

      And annual car registration fees for EV will be jacked up even higher than what is charged for fossil-fuel-burning road vehicles.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kellin ( 28417 )

        And ? The cost of maintenance on an EV is significantly lower than an ICE. You're still spending less money over the lifetime of the vehicle.

      • And annual car registration fees for EV will be jacked up even higher than what is charged for fossil-fuel-burning road vehicles.

        And it will still be lower than paying for the gas taxes that fund the existing road infrastructure. When the gas tax funding is reduced, where else will the repair funds come from?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by edwdig ( 47888 )

      Of course. When the market says "We want your product, but it's too expensive", the only logical thing to do is keep prices high. No one would dare to actually try to sell product, that would be stupid.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mspohr ( 589790 )

      Tesla has been lowering prices on their cars for the past year making them now less expensive than the "average" new car. Tesla still has the highest margins in the auto industry.
      Other EV makers are clueless and haven't figured out how to make an EV that people want to buy at the price they are charging which doesn't cover their costs. They will go out of business soon even with government subsidies.

    • what they actually do is stop considering lower end models and focus entirely on the luxury market to maximize the value of the tax credit. As a result EVs remain toys for the upper class and rich.

      These credits were always a bad idea. EVs first spread because of a huge gov't program that paid Tesla to build them so that other car companies could get out of making more fuel efficient and clean cars. e.g. "compliance cars". This let Tesla manufacture kinda crappy vehicles with all sorts of problems but se

    • The dealers will just stock vehicles with $7500 worth of extra options. Fuck car dealerships. Let me place my order for exactly what I want direct with the manufacturer.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jtara ( 133429 )

      But EV prices have been dropping, and will continue to do so.

      EVs have a much lower complexity vs. ICE. The battery costs will continue to fall as the technology develops, and there is great incentive for research to continue at a high level of participation.

      Has been a LONG time coming, glad to see finally here. I contributed to some absolutely ridiculous vehicle/grid battery technology in the late 70's/early 80s (zinc-chloride). At least we're not driving around with batteries that need pumps and heaters an

    • I assume they mean dealers in the broadest sense. In other words, Tesla is part of the current $7500 tax credit and presume they would be part of this too.

      So, Tesla is charging less than 40k for a basic 3. I know, I just bought one. This is just making it more satisfying to get the money now. Instead I have to wait until 2024 to get my rebate. No big, but psychologically better to get a rebate check. That's what I will get from my local air district. $3000 in a check. Either way, it all spends the same. I w

  • Will this fix the climate? Cheaper EVs means the climate war is over right?

    • Of course not. But you already know that.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by eepok ( 545733 )

      No. It's part of the large complex equation.

      First, I need to state that I don't think battery electric vehicle are THE permanent solution for everyday vehicle travel. VMT reduction via transit needs to be priority and HFC vehicles meet our current network facilities and travel patterns much better. And there WILL be a reckoning when it comes to the lack of battery recycling.

      Second, the GOOD thing about EVs is that as the electricity supply becomes less polluting, the EVs emissions profile becomes less pollu

      • You can be in coal country with an EV and your EV is effectively running on coal (if not worse due to loss)

        A coal-powered EV produces less CO2 per mile driven than a comparable gasoline or diesel ICEV, because of the relative efficiency of large vs small plants. The small engine in an ICEV is only about half as efficient as a coal-fired powerplant, in terms of energy extracted per ton of CO2 emitted. There are transmission and charging losses, but they're on the order of 10%, not 50%. And that doesn't even factor in the efficiency gains from regenerative braking. Working against EVs is the higher weight of EVs,

        • Exactly. You get to your destination one step at a time.

          If you have unlimited time, sure, you can take extra tiny steps and feel very good about it. Even pat yourself on the back.

          Now, go on a 200 kms hike during summer with 5 liters of water. Your assertion is still true: you get to your destination one step at a time. You just will never get to your destination, but that's another issue, right?

          • "If you can't finish the hike by immediately taking one single 200km-long step, you might as well just lie down motionless and wait to die" -- Slashdotters, apparently.

            You really wouldn't try to search for water, shelter, a means of transport, somebody to help you?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Merk42 ( 1906718 )
      Since nothing is a panacea, then nothing should be done. Got it.

    • Will this fix the climate? Cheaper EVs means the climate war is over right?

      No, EV adoption is one aspect that will help.

      The US EV grid is currently running about 15% renewables, so switching to EV immediately reduces carbon emissions by that much in fuel costs. (Carbon costs for construction and recycling are currently in flux, but will probably be comparable. Lots of technological advances are being made here.)

      The US grid is adding renewables at an exponential rate, so this level of improvement (15% reduction) will only go up in the future.

      EVs are currently (Teslas, at least) mor

      • If we had a simple system that would pull CO2 out of the atmosphere that was small - the size of a shipping container - and could be quickly started and stopped, we could use stranded energy to drive the process and send a tanker truck around to collect the outputs once a month.

        Sabatier reaction [wikipedia.org] is a simple, established [hz-inova.com] process to get methane out of CO2 and hydrogen.
        Said methane can then be either used as "carbon-neutral" methane - or if we were really into that whole carbon sequestration thing pyrolyzed into graphite [wikipedia.org] or turned into diamonds. [wikipedia.org]
        With plenty of energy to be harvested in either process.

        Thing is... it's cheaper and simpler to burn fossil fuels.

    • Will this fix the climate? Cheaper EVs means the climate war is over right?

      Silver bullets are for vampires and fantasy stories. Please come back to the real world. There's no single thing you can do to solve climate change. ... well... commit genocide properly wiping out 1/2 the planets population may do it, but I don't think people who don't even want to turn off their AC will appreciate this more drastic singular measure.

    • Why are you against small progress? Are you aware of one single big change that will fix everything? From what I can see our only option is to utilize the cumulative effect of many, many small changes.

  • Could cover the cost of a charger (Score:3)

    by Hoi Polloi ( 522990 ) on Friday October 06, 2023 @01:09PM (#63906269) Journal

    I could roll that into installing a home charging station. Right now the avg ev car price is more than I can afford though. To be fair the avg price of any cars right now is brutal.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Ksevio ( 865461 )

      Home charging stations aren't particularly expensive. You can by the hardware for a few hundred, then it just depends where you park and how far that is from your panel.

  • encourage "low income" people to finance more! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rta ( 559125 ) on Friday October 06, 2023 @01:32PM (#63906319)

    But a study from George Washington University found that many car buyers, especially those who were low-income, overwhelmingly preferred to receive the credit as an immediate rebate.

    Now, dealers can apply the credit at the time of purchase — effectively making it a discount — or provide the rebate to the buyer as cash.

    This is great: wave a cash rebate at low-income car buyers to encourage them to take on a $30K+ car loan at like 9% and both of those numbers are on the conservative side since the price might be 2x that. "Look, you get a car and we write YOU a check for $5k today! You'd be an idiot not to take it!" (assuming they keep $2.5k for a down payment )

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dfghjk ( 711126 )

      As opposed to what? Giving credits to only those who can wait 6 months for reimbursement? Love how you spin this as some conspiracy of banks...

      OF COURSE incentives should be instant at time of purchase.

    • Repossessing current EVs will be a bitch when the battery is dead. Of course, once self-driving tech is perfected, the cars will repossess themselves.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mspohr ( 589790 )

        My impression is that most repossessions take place with a tow truck, no battery required.

  • Not a rebate (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cbeaudry ( 706335 ) on Friday October 06, 2023 @01:33PM (#63906323)

    That increases the cost of everything else.

    A rebate by a third party isnt a rebate.

    Considering the government budget isnt balanced, these "rebates" are really subsidies they will have to offre on credit.

    Further causing inflation, increasing the cost of ICEVs and EVs and every other consummer good and service for ALL.

    • Further causing inflation

      If inflation was driven by the lack of balanced government spending the US Dollar would be worthless due to hyperinflation by now. This is a metaphorical piss in the ocean compared to the US budget. It not only wont have a measurable impact on inflation, you'd struggle to even quantify it theoretically.

      • Every expansion of the monetary supply is a piss in the bucket, until you accumulate them together.
        Government borrowing compounds.
        If you need to borrow 100 billion dollars and never balance a budget, you keep borrowing the following year and the following one.
        Also, your interest on paiments keep increasing because you have to borrow more to pay the interest.

        Yes, if the one and only thing we ever borrowed for was EVs, it would be one thing, but its not as you know.

        Its not the only cause of inflation, but one

    • https://australiainstitute.org... [australiai...ute.org.au]

      Research by the OECD as part of its 2023 Economic Outlook has confirmed what many economists around the world have argued that profits have been the major driver of inflation

      The OECD research has decomposed the GDP of 15 nations and found that "a significant part of the unit profits contribution has stemmed from profits in the energy and agriculture sectors, well above their share of the overall economy, but there have also been increases in profit contributions in manufacturing and services".

      This finding comes off the back of the OECD noting that "the upsurge in inflation in 2021-22 has led to declines in real wages and, in many countries, household disposable incomes."

      • If you are trying to say that inflation is only caused by greed, that is a nice narrative you where fed by state economists.

        Inflation is always a monetary problem.

        Why do you think the one tool central banks use to curb inflation is interest rates?
        Higher rates reduces, stems or stops borrowing.
        Borrowing expands money because of fractional reserve banking. Every loan creates money out of thin air that did not exist before.
        Massive spending by governments does the same, because they spend on credit.

        High interes

  • Wait 'til these folks get their tax bill! (Score:3)

    by WaxParadigm ( 311909 ) on Friday October 06, 2023 @01:47PM (#63906351)

    Making the credit available upfront seems unwise unless eligibility is fully validated and quantified at the point of sale. A majority of people do not quality for the full credit either because they make too little to have that much income tax liability, or they make too much to qualify at all. If those people get the full credit at time of purchase, they'll be paying some or all of it back at tax time.

    • According to this NPR article [npr.org] everyone will get the discount up front that are under the income cap.

      If you don't owe enough taxes to cover the credit they don't want the money back. But I suspect it is carried forward each tax year until your tax liability covers the full amount, that part is not clear though.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dfghjk ( 711126 )

      If the program is badly administered, sure. You think making a refund instant means that the refund CANNOT be qualified first?

    • That's what always got me since I got a basic handle on how taxes work in the USA.

      To wit: All these distortions of taxes in order to encourage people to do the "right thing" were always pointed at the richest people.

      The worst is the "you can deduct the amount".
      This means that you need to have enough deductions to itemize, and in losing the standard deduction, for it to be worth it, you had to be on the top end, income wise. It also means that the subsidy was more limited the less you earned. If your marg

  • Subsidizing a thing doesn't make it cheaper (Score:4, Insightful)

    by RightwingNutjob ( 1302813 ) on Friday October 06, 2023 @02:05PM (#63906431)

    It merely shifts the costs from car buyers to taxpayers.

    The astute among you will note there is significant overlap between the two, and the really sharp knives in the drawer will be aware that almost everyone pays taxes but it's mostly the high-income who buy EVs.

    • Re:Subsidizing a thing doesn't make it cheaper (Score:5, Interesting)

      by kamapuaa ( 555446 ) on Friday October 06, 2023 @02:55PM (#63906587) Homepage

      A Tesla 3 is a $10k cheaper than the US average car, and then is cheaper to "fuel" and maintain. A Y is almost as cheap. These are the 2 top selling EVs.

      • And yet, everybody and their mother isn't running out to buy one.

        • The Y is the top selling non-truck in the US, and the top selling car in the world, so it's selling well.

          Anyway, the point is that EVs are necessarily a working class car, considering that the top two selling models cost less than average (and about as much as a baseline F 150).

      • You know what's also cheaper than the average car? A bicycle. A bicycle is actual green technology instead of greenwashing, so you'd think the administration that values the environment would be pushing them. Do we have any rebates for bicycles? Nope. The Big Bicycle industry must not be on the ball in Washington I guess.

        For the cost of this EV rebate program, the government could probably give a bicycle to every person in the US. But they don't actually want that, because some of them might delay their nex

    • You're missing the mechanism. The tax credit doesn't make current EVs cheaper, it makes future EVs cheaper, by increasing volume. And, more importantly, it moves us more rapidly along the adoption curve, so that CO2 emissions from passenger vehicles will decline faster.

      the really sharp knives in the drawer will be aware that almost everyone pays taxes but it's mostly the high-income who buy EVs.

      Those knives are kind of dull, because it's mostly the upper middle and upper classes who pay taxes. The ultra wealthy have lots of ways to avoid it, but your typical Tesla-buying professional pays lots of taxes, and collectively this segment

    • It merely shifts the costs from car buyers to taxpayers.

      And? Taxpayers pay into a system of government so that a government can enact policies. Subsidies is literally a way of enacting a policy without direct regulation. You're acting like this is a bad thing rather than a fundamental function of government.

  • or there should be a smugness charge.

  • The key weasel words are "As Much As". More than likely you're not getting that $7,500 or anything close to it on the budget EV that people who depend on a rebate are buying. This ranks right up there with "Save Up To". You're never seeing that top amount.

  • Current prices 10/06/23 for "Best EVs" per C&D (Score:3)

    by kellin ( 28417 ) on Friday October 06, 2023 @04:21PM (#63906871)

    Car and Driver lists these cars as the best EVs and their prices. I'm putting this here for reference to see whether the prices DO go up like some think:

    Hyundai Ioniq 6 2024 - $43k
    BMW i4 2024 - $53.2k
    Tesla 3 2024 - $42k
    Polestar 2 2024 - $51.3k
    Chevy Bolt 2023 - $27.5k
    Nissan Leaf 2024 - $29.2k
    Mini Cooper 2024 - $32
    Toyota Mirai 2024 - $50.5k

    Btw. Whomever said Tesla has the best prices and will put everyone else out of business needs some reading comprehension.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by bgarcia ( 33222 )


      Tesla 3 2024 - $42k ...
      Btw. Whomever said Tesla has the best prices and will put everyone else out of business needs some reading comprehension.

      Looks like you could use a little reading comprehension.
      Go to Tesla's website [tesla.com] and take a look at the price for a Model 3 again.
      You'll see that it has been lowered to $38,990

      None of the other models are made in anywhere near the quantity [cleantechnica.com] of the Tesla Model 3 and Y. Tesla is gunning for the Toyota Camry - the other EVs are just a blip on their radar.

  • If Biden offered "loan forgiveness" for EVs, maybe I would Biden one.

  • Most cars won't qualify and a large group of people won't qualify even if they buy one of those cars.

  • I always suspected ICE vehicles would be (mistakenly) completely outlawed by some well-meaning party in the future. I never thought that EVs might (also mistakenly) be subsidized by they who pay taxes to the point where ICE vehicles can't compete at all, even if they might make more sense in certain situations.

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