Joseon Becomes First-ever Globally Recognized Cyber Nation-state 115
An anonymous reader quotes a report from U.Today:
The country was reimagined by Joseon King Andrew Lee as a digital nation without territory or borders. In this status, it was recognized by Antigua and Barbuda: the two countries inked a treaty that supports education, economic investment and other developmental initiatives and provides the basis for long-standing friendly relations.
Speaking to U.Today, representatives of the country stressed its unique legal design and state management model:
"Joseon is a crypto safe haven in this world where you can legally engage in crypto without any risk of any kind because sovereignty is the absolute authority in this world and another sovereignty doesn't have authority over another sovereignty"
Per their official statement, cryptocurrencies represent legal tender in Joseon and can be used for investments, daily payments and cross-border transactions.
Another report from Bitcoinist details several companies launching in Joseon, including First Day Out Collective which represents a song from Rundown Spaz and Kanye West:
Let's talk about the banger that's making this all come alive: "First Day Out,: a fire track by Rundown Spaz featuring none other than Kanye West, now owned by a DAO and legally recognized corporation in the progressive cybernation of Joseon, which itself is a legally recognized nation-state.
The country was reimagined by Joseon King Andrew Lee as a digital nation without territory or borders. In this status, it was recognized by Antigua and Barbuda: the two countries inked a treaty that supports education, economic investment and other developmental initiatives and provides the basis for long-standing friendly relations.
Speaking to U.Today, representatives of the country stressed its unique legal design and state management model:
"Joseon is a crypto safe haven in this world where you can legally engage in crypto without any risk of any kind because sovereignty is the absolute authority in this world and another sovereignty doesn't have authority over another sovereignty"
Per their official statement, cryptocurrencies represent legal tender in Joseon and can be used for investments, daily payments and cross-border transactions.
Another report from Bitcoinist details several companies launching in Joseon, including First Day Out Collective which represents a song from Rundown Spaz and Kanye West:
Let's talk about the banger that's making this all come alive: "First Day Out,: a fire track by Rundown Spaz featuring none other than Kanye West, now owned by a DAO and legally recognized corporation in the progressive cybernation of Joseon, which itself is a legally recognized nation-state.
so can hackers get soldier protections as part of (Score:2)
so can hackers get soldier protections as part of the Geneva Conventions?
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The good news: you get POW protections!
The bad news: you are now a war criminal.
"Globally Recognized" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:"Globally Recognized" (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:"Globally Recognized" (Score:5, Funny)
If it was 2003, someone would quickly add the obligatory post about Natalie Portman naked and petrified and covered in Hot Grits.
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...I believe you've just made it 2003.
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Well, maybe someone has below and I haven't gotten there yet.
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OK... low user id. NOW it's 2003. :D
And yeah, /. staff is really into the baity headlines. Calling it "globally recognized" is false.
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humbug.
Re:"Globally Recognized" (Score:4, Funny)
Yes but It is now official. Netcraft has confirmed: BSD is dying
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered BSD community when IDC confirmed that BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be the Amazing Kreskin [amazingkreskin.com] to predict BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for BSD because BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for BSD. As many of us are already aware, BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.
FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that BSD has steadily declined in market share. BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, BSD is dead.
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Re: "Globally Recognized" (Score:2)
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2003. BSD was supposed to take over the world. BSD was going to collapse into irrelevance. The flame wars could have consumed Australia.
Re: "Globally Recognized" (Score:2)
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Re:"Globally Recognized" (Score:4, Interesting)
If being recognized by the shady tax-havens of Antigua and Barbuda with some type of "treaty" worthy of being written on toilet paper counts as "global." This is a nonsense scheme to add an abstraction layer on top of Antigua and Barbuda's pre-existing tax haven status by adding crypto, and declaring that entity "virtual." So, when shenanigans ensue (and they of course will) they hope no one will come after the hard fiat assets of Antigua and Barbuda, instead they have established a limited liability "cryptostate." Pure legal fiction.
And yet if the "Jadollar" became popular enough with the uber-rich seeking a new type of laundering tax haven? A brand new 'Cyber' state sounds like just the thing Greed N. Corruption would abuse while laws and regulations aren't even in existence to prevent such abuse.
Not exactly a theory based in pure fiction. SBF had the backing of many an American millionaire operating a Bahamian crypto orgy, and Ireland has enjoyed sitting on corporate trillions for decades now. Greed kinda likes abstraction.
Re: "Globally Recognized" (Score:2)
Wdym there aren't laws to stop such abuse? There are.
The scam is to say that there aren't and that you could legally say your money is in a virtual tax haven. The country in question recognizing even is a terrible tax haven if you intend to keep things legal for most rich entities.
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Wdym there aren't laws to stop such abuse? There are.
Bitcoin was born long ago, and Governments have just barely figured out how to tax it. Over a decade later. The hell makes you assume we have real estate attorneys, a court system, and even tax offices well-versed in digital land rights after someone just pulled the concept of a digital country out of their crypto ass-ets? No country on the planet is prepared to stop abuse right now, particularly since land is one of the most taxed things on the planet and one of the most complex from a tax perspective.
W
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Not exactly a theory based in pure fiction. SBF had the backing of many an American millionaire operating a Bahamian crypto orgy, and Ireland has enjoyed sitting on corporate trillions for decades now.
Whose money was he stealing if it was not from the American millionaire? If it was from the American millionaires, then why are they so interested in continuing the fraud since they are the ones being defrauded?
Where did the money for this fraud come from?
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Nah, the uber-rich are quite content with the services offered by CitiCorp, Wall Street, and the real estate market. Crypto is for small time criminals, if you move $50 million in crypto in a day you make headlines, launder $50 million through Wall Street and the only person who knows is your broker.
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Nah, the uber-rich are quite content with the services offered by CitiCorp, Wall Street, and the real estate market.
Given current trends globally, content really isn't the accurate word used to describe any of those markets.
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No but Kanye West is adding his support so it must be good.
Sealand (Score:3)
Re:Sealand (Score:4, Funny)
Eat your heart out.
Creating a digital country out of bits and bytes, versus...
Capturing your own World War II fort miles offshore to broadcast pirate radio and establish your own country the fucking hard way by fighting Governments for it.
And we wonder why even GenX is bitching about kids these days.
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Creating a digital country out of bits and bytes, versus...
Capturing your own World War II fort miles offshore to broadcast pirate radio and establish your own country the fucking hard way by fighting Governments for it.
Right. Blood of patriots and all that.
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Creating a digital country out of bits and bytes, versus...
Capturing your own World War II fort miles offshore to broadcast pirate radio and establish your own country the fucking hard way by fighting Governments for it.
Right. Blood of patriots and all that.
There were no deaths involved in the capturing of an abandoned WWII fort in the 60s, and those who established that country long ago died of natural causes. All of the "fighting" has been done with pen and paper, save for an incident in 1978 where Sealand was taken by force and re-captured days later. Again without blood spilled.
Kids these days. Damn.
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All of the "fighting" has been done with pen and paper
That is not really the hard way then.
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All of the "fighting" has been done with pen and paper
That is not really the hard way then.
As compared to the Instant Gratification Generation pulling digital countries out of their ass-ets? Forget the million+ invested. No one today would fight decades, as it would be quite the challenge to the current attention span.
Fighting on any level is a lot harder than enjoying the freedom of making shit up as you go in a society weak enough to accept it.
Pretty awesome (Score:5, Interesting)
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What the "Sovereign" Order of Malta exervises on its "territories" falls significantly short of "sovereignty". It's really a grant of privileges from the host country's government, similar to and in some ways more limited than the extraterritoriality that states grant embassies. Despite its name, the "Sovereign" Military Order of Malta isn't even all that sovereign -- last year the Pope sacked the leadership and imposed a new constitution on it. While some countries grant SMOM statelike privileges, argume
Re:Pretty awesome (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know why you need actual land to consider yourself a country.
Governments enforce laws to protect their citizens. This "country" is unable to enforce it's laws as "citizens" are still subject to the laws of the countries they live in.
Effectively, any group can pretend to be a country but if they lack the ability to enforce the laws then they are a failed state. Being a failed state and not having any land makes you nothing more than idea.
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I don't know why you need actual land to consider yourself a country.
Governments enforce laws to protect their citizens. This "country" is unable to enforce it's laws as "citizens" are still subject to the laws of the countries they live in.
Effectively, any group can pretend to be a country but if they lack the ability to enforce the laws then they are a failed state. Being a failed state and not having any land makes you nothing more than idea.
Pretty much coming to say exactly this, and also "good luck with that" to the idiots who think this idea has any legal standing or effect.
Re:Pretty awesome (Score:5, Interesting)
So... sovereign citizens, but even dumber?
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Exactly as dumb. And fleeced of their money in the same way, no doubt.
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Re: Pretty awesome (Score:2)
Well that has a pretty simple explanation: you're a moron.
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So create a ship registry and operate as a flag of convenience. That gives you a sphere in which you have jurisdiction.
I'm not entirely disagreeing with you: it's an obvious legal fiction. But legal fictions backed by rich people can prove remarkably persistent.
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As a Swede living in Norway you are the responsibility of the Norwegian legal system and fall under their laws just like its "citizens". If you moved to Sweden you would fall under those laws. That's the OP's point of being a country capable of enforcing rules on you. You cannot live in crypto land. And even if you did live in crypto land the mechanism to resolve any dispute between people would fall back to the laws of the country they live in.
This virtual country is the numbest thing on the internet.
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Why not? my country enforces the law on me mostly by giving me fines. In crypto there are smart contracts.
Crypto smart contracts are not some nebulos extra territorial concept. They are founded entirely on common law and based on a legal framework of a country. The way contracts work is that someone enforces them when they are breached. Crypto can't do that. Laws do that.
Also someone else imposing rules on you does not absolve you from the rules of your country. I can issue you a fine. You can say fuck off. How do we resolve this dispute? Legal system where you or I are citizens, not some nebulous concept like
Re: Pretty awesome (Score:2)
You call yourself a king too, or a prophet. I don't know what that will do for you, but you can.
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I don't know why you need actual land to consider yourself a country.
A better question is why you thought you need actual land to consider yourself a country.
You never did, don't currently, and never will.
You need a military to consider yourself a country, and more importantly you need a military that can effectively project force so that others will consider yourself a country.
If you can't project force to protect your sovereignty then you don't have sovereignty.
Plenty of people had land but ultimately couldn't project enough force to keep it.
Just ask the natives of any con
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You need a military to consider yourself a country, and more importantly you need a military that can effectively project force so that others will consider yourself a country.
If you can't project force to protect your sovereignty then you don't have sovereignty.
It seems to work for most of Europe. Some of them even have literally no military at all, and they just rely on the US maintaining global order.
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For now.
It's just a matter of time until the realities of interstate power catch up to them.
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Costa Rica disbanded its military in 1948 and hasn't needed one since. They're the only country in Latin America which has never suffered a coup in the last 70+ years, as a result.
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That's fine. It is also a short time in history. Once the US stops playing World Police, the wars will start up again.
No military at all (Score:2)
I don't think Andorra is relying on the USA to stop Spain and France invading it. The cost-benefit analysis should suffice. Benefit: an increase in land, population and economy by fractions of a percent. Cost: bolstering your internal regional independence movements; international reprobation; risk of war with the other major nation, at the behest of its co-prince.
Re: No military at all (Score:2)
Tell that to the Basques. France is engaged in an active campaign to ban their language and cultural identity. Spain was too under Franco.
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Would you mind explaining how your reply is related to anything I wrote? I can't see it.
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I agree. The Order of Malta has no land, only a military, and is sovereign, and a UN observer.
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It's the same nonsense as the "sovereign citizen" idiots, which has been around for decades.
It'll get the same prison sentences, too.
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I don't know why you need actual land to consider yourself a country.
It's going to be interesting when they start taking your advice and charging for every bit and byte consumed on the interwebs when social media realizes how much revenue can come from taxing narcissism under real estate law.
You welcome your new digital overlords quite ignorantly assuming they wouldn't.
Re: Pretty awesome (Score:2)
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They claim dominion over everything from Point Barrow to Tierra de Fuego, although there is a wee bit of disagreement.
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"I don't know why you need actual land to consider yourself a country."
Because no matter how virtual you are, you must still physically exist, occupying real land in a real country. And you will be subject to the laws of that country, not those of some fantasy virtual country you made up.
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Because humans exist within a 3-dimensional space. We haven't mastered sky-palaces, we haven't established permanent floating cities on the ocean, and we've yet to colonize another planet.
Sovereignty means as much as your ability to defend the physical space in which you exist. This was not "bound to happen" because it didn't actually happen.
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I don't know why you need actual land to consider yourself a country.
Because guns enforce laws. Guns require humans to hold them. Humans require land to exist; therefore, if your 'country' is not based on land, it does not effectively exist as a sovereign country.
It is an interesting hallucination to call it a 'country' and things may actually occur because of this delusion, but it is only a delusion. Anything that occurs can be described authoritatively without resorting to the concept of 'country'.
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You can consider yourself anything you want. To actually *be* a country, you need other countries to go along with it. See "sovereign citizens" and how that generally works out for them.
Electricity (Score:3)
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Probably the same idiots who claim the internet was better back in the days when it was mostly volunteer run.
Circular and false (Score:5, Insightful)
Joseon is a crypto safe haven in this world where you can legally engage in crypto without any risk of any kind because sovereignty is the absolute authority in this world and another sovereignty doesn't have authority over another sovereignty
So..."without any risk of any kind?" Yeah right. People who participate in this scam are taking on a whole lot of risk.
"Sovereignty is the absolute authority in this world"? Hardly. We are all subject to treaties with other countries, that have the force of law in our own country. And sovereignty is *not* absolute.
This is a bunch of meaningless babble. Seriously, it sounds like it was written by a fifth grader!
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Funny how they're all like "SOVEREIGNTY BITCHES, checkmate, you can't stop us now!" as if sanctions aren't a thing. They should ask Cuba or North Korea how that sovereignty thing is working out for them. If they think Antigua and Barbuda will come riding in to their aid, they should consider what will happen when the sanctions spread onto them too...Joseon will be tossed out like yesterday's newspaper if it was wrapped around dog turds and on fire.
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Funny how they're all like "SOVEREIGNTY BITCHES, checkmate, you can't stop us now!" as if sanctions aren't a thing.
Not to mention wars, and drone/polonium assassinations.
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Or, like, soldiers walking across a border. Or police kicking in the door of the physical house they're in while engaging in some conduct in this fantasyland that's illegal in the jurisdiction they're physically sitting in.
Re: Circular and false (Score:2)
Yep its the same scam as a world passport scams at its core. You can't just say you're not paying taxes or aren't bound by local laws.
Well you can say but it doesn't go well.
One question (Score:2)
Where do you go to emigrate?
--asking for a sovereign citizen friend
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Ghost In The Shell...
Bullshit. (Score:2)
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They have an embassy? (Score:2)
So when the next SBF pulls some shit and gets arrested he's going to call the CryptoAsshole Embassy and get released?
Even pigs strapped to rockets can't fly with that one on board.
I may watch too much Korean tv, but... (Score:3)
Isn't the Joseon period the Korean middle ages? Colourful nobles in silks and funny hats plotting treachery and romance? or has Netflix taught me nothing?
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I just knew...
that Kim Jong-Un was somehow involved in this.
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Yes, it's also what North Korea uses to refer to itself and the Korean Peninsula.
Referral Code (Score:4, Funny)
Does anyone have a referral code?
"You keep using that word... (Score:2)
.. I do not think it means what you think it means"
one tiny country != globally
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No. When the article says "the two countries inked a treaty" one "country" is Antigua and Barbuda and the other is Joseon.
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Of course if I wanted to be argumentative, ignorant and pedantic, without checking facts, I would now point out it is three countries: Antigua, Barbuda and Joseon.
I wonder how many countries would it take to consider something "Globally Recognised"? Even when I thought it wa
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My theory there is that some sub-editor thought that "first globally recognised" is a shorter way of saying "first in the world to be recognised". Actually, that headline wasn't in the original article so maybe it's the contribution of the *cough* uniquely talented /. "editors".
From the guy who killed Freenode (Score:2, Informative)
Re: From the guy who killed Freenode (Score:2)
Killed Freenode, considers himself the heir to the Korean throne...
The guy's not the usual brand of grifter.
christ (Score:5, Insightful)
this is in no sense a recognized state, you buffoons
stop falling for crypto shit
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It was though, during XV-XIX centuries AD.
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If it is recognizred as a state by a UN member, it IS in "one sense" a state.
Now they just need to convince anyone that matters to agree with that and open THAT can of worms...
Another attempt (Score:4, Interesting)
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Reminds me of a similar project:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik... [wikipedia.org]
Will probably have a similar ending.
I'd heard of Sealand, but Rose Island is new to me. Thanks for the link!
My turn to a share similar defunct "nation" in Australia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re: Another attempt (Score:2)
There's is Asgardia, the space nation. (Asgardia.space) It claims a small satellite as its territory and more than one million residents, although I don't know if those are tax paying citizens or anyone who joined, including those who never commited to it, like myself. There's a Wikipedia article about it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asgardia. Just noticed it's a monarchy, so I must have left it or am only part of it for inertia.
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I always like the Conch Republic. Key West was economically depressed in the early '80s so in one day:
1) Declared its independence
2) Declared war on the United States
3) The (IIRC) Chief of Police fired one shot generally in the direction of the mainland
4) The "republic" surrendered
5) The mayor and ex-president requested foreign aid
Periodically the Upper Peninsula of Michigan will threaten to cede from the state, but then someone reminds them that all the welfare payments are funded by the Lower Peninsula a
Wait for it... (Score:2)
Cue the cryptoscam headline in 3, 2, 1... (Score:4, Informative)
Can we get a betting pool started how long it takes 'til we hear the news of someone taking off with all the money?
I say 4 weeks, 5 bucks.
He has already failed (Score:1)
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Joseon is North Korea (Score:3)
The official name of North Korea is:
Joseon Min Ju Jui In Min Kong Hwa Kook ("Democratic People's Republic of Korea")
How does this work (Score:2)
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Short answer: it doesn't.
Question (Score:2)
Is it a bad sign when searching for the name of your cyber nation state only gives back results for the last dynastic Kingdom of Korea? Even SeaLand has a Wikipedia page. :|
Nope (Score:2)
Antigua and Barbuda are barely recognized countries themselves. Nothing these two countries does has any meaning or impact on anything else. Joseon is nothing. People supporting it are morons who have absolutely no clue what they are doing.