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United States

US Inflation Falls To 3.2% in October 214

US inflation fell to 3.2 per cent in October, lower than economists had expected and the first decline for four months. From a report: Consumer prices rose 3.2 per cent year on year in October, down from an annual rate of 3.7 per cent in September. The annual rise was slightly less than economists had forecast, and prices were flat month on month. The central bank held its benchmark interest rate steady at a 22-year high earlier this month, and investors have become increasingly confident that rates have peaked. Futures markets on Monday afternoon were pricing in a 13 per cent chance of a further rate rise at the Fed's next rate-setting meeting in mid-December.

Core inflation -- which strips out volatile food and energy prices -- was also slightly weaker than economists had predicted, dipping from 4.1 per cent to 4.0 per cent on a year on year basis. Core inflation rose by 0.2 per cent month on month. Fed chair Jay Powell stressed last week that policymakers would not be "misled by a few good months of data," and that the central bank could tighten monetary policy further if necessary, although officials have shown little intention of immediately raising rates beyond the current range of 5.25-5.5 per cent. Stronger-than-expected gross domestic product growth has fanned fears that the slowdown in inflation could stall, but Powell said last week that he and his colleagues expected the pace of economic expansion to slow. Instead of another rate rise, the Fed is increasingly expected to push back the timing of rate cuts deeper into 2024 if consumer prices remain stubbornly high.
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US Inflation Falls To 3.2% in October

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  • by Press2ToContinue ( 2424598 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2023 @08:49AM (#64004567)
    Looks like the US economy is taking cues from classic video games - just when you think you've beat the final boss (inflation), it respawns with a new power level (interest rates). Maybe the Fed's strategy is inspired by 'The Legend of Zelda' – endlessly searching for that magic potion to keep the economy stable. Or perhaps, it's more like a 'Sims' game, where no matter how well you manage, there’s always a random fire to put out. And speaking of random, did anyone check if the inflation calculator was running on Windows ME?
    • Interest rates are probably going to decrease somewhat but rightly not going to come back down to the post 2008 era and if anything it's becoming clear they were left far too low for far too long as we are now feeling some shock at a return to rates that were long the historic norm. Everyone got a little too bought into the idea that ZIRP would never end.

      • by jbengt ( 874751 )

        Interest rates are probably going to decrease somewhat but rightly not going to come back down to the post 2008 era and if anything it's becoming clear they were left far too low for far too long . . .

        People don't seem to realize just how unprecedented the long stretch of low inflation [tradingeconomics.com] and low interest rates [tradingeconomics.com] of the recent decaded has been.

      • I"m getting old....

        I remember growing up, and home mortgage rates were easily in the 12%-14% and higher levels back in the day, for everyone.

        Not sure why it's killing some folks today....it's a change for sure, but this isn't unprecedented and it certainly wasn't the end of the world for us back then as that people STILL bought houses, business continued and people actually could save money and enjoy it growing in an interest bearing savings account.

        • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

          12% on twice your annual income isn't nearly as bad as 5% on ten or 15 times your annual income.

          Most people "buy" houses based on how much money the bank will give them. It's really more like renting. If your rent is $2000 a month you don't really care whether some abstract entity "values" the place you live at $100,000 or a $1,000,000, it still costs you $2000/month.

          If you can afford $2000/month and interest rates are low, you buy a house with that size mortgage payment. When interest rates go up, you're s

    • by JBMcB ( 73720 )

      Looks like the US economy is taking cues from classic video games - just when you think you've beat the final boss (inflation), it respawns with a new power level (interest rates).

      That's, literally, the primary reason why the federal reserve has the power to adjust interest rates. It's to keep inflation in check. The US saw various European economies being crushed by inflation after World War I, and decided a hedge against inflation would be a good idea. It's not voodoo or magic, it's *very* basic monetary policy.

      Initially, adjusting interest rates was only supposed to prevent inflation, or deflation, but since it's been used to try to "goose" the economy when it falls into recession

    • Interest rates aren't a boss for the protagonist to fight, they're the weapon that the protagonist is wielding. Typically, raising interest rates is undesirable because it can cause a recession, but that hasn't happened here so there isn't too much drawback in having high interest rates. This boss doesn't seem to have a final form, this is a pretty clear-cut victory.
  • by bradley13 ( 1118935 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2023 @09:01AM (#64004585) Homepage

    Don't look behind the curtain. Well, do, by visiting Shadowstats [shadowstats.com]. Journalists forget - or perhaps never knew - that the government has twice redefined "inflation", to make the numbers stay lower. To summarize:

    • - "Measurement of consumer inflation traditionally reflected assessing the cost of maintaining a constant standard of living, as measured by a fixed-basket of goods."
    • - "The contention was that the CPI overstated inflation (it did not allow substitution of less-expensive hamburger for more-expensive steak). Both sides of the aisle and the financial media touted the benefits of a “more-accurate” CPI, one that would allow the substitution of goods and services."
    • - "The plan was to reduce cost of living adjustments for government payments to Social Security recipients, etc. The cuts in reported inflation were an effort to reduce the federal deficit without anyone in Congress having to do the politically impossible: to vote against Social Security. The inflation-calculation changes had the further benefit to government fiscal conditions of pushing taxpayers artificially into higher tax brackets, thus increasing tax revenues."

    According to current measurements, inflation may be around 3.5% to 4%. Using the measures in place in 1990, it is around 8%. And using the measures in place through 1980, it is around 12%.

    • by jacks smirking reven ( 909048 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2023 @09:11AM (#64004613)

      Shadowstats has long had questionable statistics measurements itself and has been a point of discussion for years now even since 2008, somewhat famously people have pointed out that by using his numbers there in fact was never a housing bubble:

      Shadow Stats debunked, part I [jparsons.net]

      No, the real inflation rate isn’t 15 percent [fullstackeconomics.com]

      Deconstructing ShadowStats. Why is it so Loved by its Followers but Scorned by Economists? [thestreet.com]

      Shadowstats debunked [econbrowser.com]

      Now that's not to say these numbers don't add any discussion but Williams is also selling a narrative as well.

    • by Comboman ( 895500 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2023 @09:18AM (#64004633)

      >>According to current measurements, inflation may be around 3.5% to 4%. Using the measures in place in 1990, it is around 8%. And using the measures in place through 1980, it is around 12%.

      While this is technically true, it also doesn't matter unless you are making historical comparisons to pre-1990 prices. The method used now is the same one that's been used for the last 33 years. It's just a different statistical method, not a conspiracy. Don't try to make it sound like this is a recent change introduced by Biden to make the economy look better than it is, because it wasn't. The same system was used under Trump (and Obama, and Bush, and Clinton, and Bush Sr.).

      • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Tuesday November 14, 2023 @09:48AM (#64004711) Homepage Journal

        Right, it's been a lie, and it's still a lie.

        Just like the unemployment rate, which doesn't count people who have been unemployed a long time. The feds just claim they're no longer looking for work. It took me a year and three months to find a job. That means for nine months I was simply removed from the statistics. That's a great way to make the number look better, but it is complete fucking horse shit.

        Biden is not a bigger liar on these issues. He's just exactly the same kind of liar. Call me crazy, but I think we need to get past these lies being acceptable.

        • account for the issues you're raising. At 33 years I think it's safe to say we know how to use those numbers in policy decisions. And ultimately that's what they're for. Making policy decisions.

          You're focused on perception too much. Yes, consumer confidence is important, but we also need to start thinking about policy changes.

          Specifically we need to stop using right wing, trickle down economics and libertarian capitalism. That's been the order of the day for 40+ years. We already knew it didn't work
        • If it's something you care about, you can still look at U6 unemployment rate [macrotrends.net].
        • by jbengt ( 874751 )

          Just like the unemployment rate, which doesn't count people who have been unemployed a long time.

          Rates counting those that have been unemployed a long time have been published by the government all along. They publish several different rates, it's not a conspiracy to downplay unemployment or inflation, the government publishes a number of different rates because they each have a different place in assessing what's happening.

      • I honestly don't understand your comment. "While this is technically true, it also doesn't matter unless you are making historical comparisons to pre-1990 prices."

        Of course it matters.

        Inflation used to be a measure of "how much more money do you need to maintain a constant standard of living?" Since the government redefined it, starting in 1980, it now means "what number can we pawn off on the populace, and maybe make them believe it?" Look at prices, then tell me: do you really believe that US inflation

        • This is true, but like all statistics you are using to say whatever you want.

          Don't gloss over the fact that one number is the "raw" inflation, and one is the rate normalized for total spending.

          If food prices go up by 33%, but food spending is only 33% of a typical person's budget, the total effect of food on inflation is 33% x 33%, which is about 11%, which is what is claimed in the headline number.

          • If food prices go up by 33%, but food spending is only 33% of a typical person's budget

            Remember when you were supposed to spend less than 33% of your income on housing, and food was cheaper than that?

    • by Okian Warrior ( 537106 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2023 @09:42AM (#64004687) Homepage Journal

      Don't look behind the curtain. Well, do, by visiting Shadowstats [shadowstats.com]. Journalists forget - or perhaps never knew - that the government has twice redefined "inflation", to make the numbers stay lower.

      According to current measurements, inflation may be around 3.5% to 4%. Using the measures in place in 1990, it is around 8%. And using the measures in place through 1980, it is around 12%.

      We can see a lot more behind the curtain.

      Nowhere in economics is there a definition of the "correct" or "optimal" amount of inflation. No one knows, and I've asked actual economists this very question.

      Some economists will respond "it depends", but then my next question is "So the optimal inflation number is a target that depends on current circumstances, that's fine. What does it depend on, and what is the formula to calculate the optimal value at any point?", and the answer is invariably a blank stare.

      The most you can get out of economists is a guess: most economists believe that inflation less than 0 is bad, greater than 10 is bad, and the optimal value is around 2%. That's a "generally held belief" with no mathematical basis (although there is some indication from historical data).

      The US produces goods and services and the total (base) value of these services rises over time due to increases in efficiency, technological advancements, economies of scale, and so on. Conceptually, computers get faster and more powerful over time, making a modern computer worth lots more in basic value than a 1990's computer.

      As production rises, Washington (Fed or US government or a collusion of both, depending on your point of view) injects money into the system to compensate: They literally make money out of nothing and inject it into the system. If the amount of extra money exactly equaled the increase in production, inflation would be zero: the amount of money would always exactly match the value of production. (Taken as an average over the entire economy. You can always find localized products that will go up in price as well as localized products that will go down in price.)

      If Washington injects an extra 2% of money into the system, then it's simple supply and demand: more money for the same goods and services, so the price of goods and services will rise to compensate.

      Overbudget spending by Washington literally and directly causes inflation.

      The Fed tries to limit inflation by slowing down the economy by adjusting interest rates. If fewer people want to buy things, companies have to lower prices to compensate. This doesn't address the base problem of extra money, but it will lower inflation indirectly. The Fed is using an indirect method for control but it's the only method of control they have.

      The problem is that inflation (and the economy in general) is essentially an exponential system and the Fed information is always several weeks behind. They're trying to control an exponential system using delayed measurements. Exponential systems (such as nuclear reactors) are notoriously difficult to control, and if the Fed doesn't get it right the economy can boom (inflation remains high) or stall (recession). Putting the brakes on the economy with exactly the right amount of force is tricky and difficult.

      If anyone here can enlighten us as to the optimal amount of inflation, or the formula that can calculate the optimal amount of inflation, please post it.

      I'm really interested in that answer.

      • It's the wrong question, inflation is downstream from deficit (and current account balance, but lets ignore that).

        Consistent deficits are convenient for government policy, no ugly surpluses to find something to do with over half the business cycle.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by phantomfive ( 622387 )

        If anyone here can enlighten us as to the optimal amount of inflation

        Yeah. The inflation number doesn't particularly matter, as long as it's predictable. If there is unpredictable inflation/deflation, then it gets too hard to make loans (for various reasons). No one will give a loan at a rate lower than expected inflation, and if deflation happens, the loans get hard to pay back. (Side note: even if inflation is unpredictable, there are ways to deal with it, like adjustable-rate-mortgages, or writing inflation into your salary contract mathematically.)

        So in an idealized e

        • by swillden ( 191260 ) <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Tuesday November 14, 2023 @04:44PM (#64005845) Journal

          So in an idealized economy, 0% inflation is ideal, because it's predictable and makes everyone's math simpler.

          0% inflation is not really possible. The reason it's not is because if you had a predictable 0% inflation rate it would encourage people to leave money sitting idle, reducing the velocity of money and the effective money supply. Reducing the money supply increases the value of money, i.e. deflation, which has all sorts of negative effects. To keep money moving, i.e. keep in invested in productive enterprises, you want to have at least a little inflation.

          This is where the 2% figure comes from. It's close enough to zero that people don't feel it pinching, but it's far enough above zero that collapse into a deflationary spiral is unlikely.

    • By your logic we'd have to compute inflation based on the current prices of fur coats, cathode ray televisions, and cigarettes, even though they make up a negligible portion of the average person's expenses.

      And be sure to calculate the inflation on your computer as -99.999% compared to a Cray-1.

  • by DarkOx ( 621550 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2023 @09:13AM (#64004621) Journal

    Its good that the FED has managed to get inflation under control. Its probably good that they have reloaded the interest rate gun a little bit, should we need to grease things with monetary stimi again for whatever reason.

    I am not sure how much we really should be celebrating. We had lots of Geo-political events to push down oil prices and create a lot pessimism for at least 3 out of our weeks in October.

    I don't see a lot of reason to think any improvement in the inflationary curve isn't driven mostly by the market expecting externalities to be disruptive. The war machine has already been enjoying Ukraine to feed it, so temperature going up in the middle east probably is negative for the market in terms of disruptions than an opportunity for arms sales.

    I think the FED is right to be skeptical, it wont take much to send pricing climbing again. Just OPEC deciding to get punitive about Zionist support as we head in the peak heating season, could do it.

  • WTF Core Inflation (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ThurstonMoore ( 605470 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2023 @09:18AM (#64004631)

    "Core inflation -- which strips out volatile food and energy prices"

    What the fuck good is that information? It's not like I can strip the price of food and energy out of my budget.

    • by Smidge204 ( 605297 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2023 @09:22AM (#64004641) Journal

      > What the fuck good is that information? It's not like I can strip the price of food and energy out of my budget.

      It's filtering out high frequency noise to better examine the longer term tends. Arguably longer term trends are more important for everyone...

      =Smidge=

      • by ThurstonMoore ( 605470 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2023 @09:26AM (#64004645)

        That high frequency noise is what I spend the most on every month.

        • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

          by jd ( 1658 )

          The daily and weekly numbers don't tell us anything about the economy, though. The purpose of the number is to give an indictation of the health of the economy overall, not how your household budget changes.

          • by taustin ( 171655 )

            No, the purpose of the numbers is - and obviously has been for decades - to serve the political ends of the people currently in charge, which is to say, getting reelected. And there's zero difference between the two parties; they both do the exact same thing for the exact same reason.

            • And there's zero difference between the two parties; they both do the exact same thing for the exact same reason.

              This is not true, at all.

              Just look at the every budget fight over the past decade, every threat of a government shutdown, the difference in big legislation (Bipartisan Infrastructure and Inflation Reduction Act versus the 2017 TCJA) also big difference in how foreign policy is handled. The passing of the ACA in 2009 versus no healthcare plan at all.

              Could go on and on and I understand having a good amount of cynicism but at this point if you are able to define your own values and dig below the punditry surf

            • by jbengt ( 874751 )
              Come on. They do report the numbers with food and energy in it, as well as the numbers with it out. That's so people can see the short term trends without the noise of certain volatile commodities. Sometimes including the volatile items lowers the rate, sometimes it raises the rate. It's not a conspiracy to publish lower numbers; it's just not good math to give them much weight in a month-to-month number.
        • Do you really spend more than 50% of your income (gross or net, either way would be astonishing) on food and gasoline? More than on housing, insurance premiums, transportation capital cost (e.g, car payment), college loans, utilities, entertainment, or other durable goods?

          • Yes, I have no debt. I own all of those things but I live within my means and have paid for them.

          • Also, why would you assume I spend over 50% of my income on anything? Just because energy and food are my biggest expenses doesn't mean I spend 50% of my income on them.

            • Sorry; I misinterpreted "what I spend the most on" as "the largest share of my spending" instead of "these are the largest line items in by budget".

              But even there that sounds odd to me - unless you don't count investments/saving as spending?

          • Most of the things you listed are priced based on the cost of food (cost of labor) and energy (cost of fuel).

            Yes, the majority of your money goes towards someoneâ(TM)s fuel or food, beyond that there are no core measurements of inflation.

            Cost of food is well beyond 10% inflation rate and cost of fuel has roughly doubled since Biden took office. 3.3% is the rate of inflation increasing year over year (if it was 10% last year, it is 13.3% now).

    • by amorsen ( 7485 ) <benny+slashdot@amorsen.dk> on Tuesday November 14, 2023 @09:31AM (#64004661)

      Food and energy inflation is currently lower than core inflation. Do what you will with that information.

      • Currently, inflation is lower if you factor in housing and fuel than if you don't, because those have increased more slowly (or decreased) than prices in general during the last year.
      • by kqs ( 1038910 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2023 @09:42AM (#64004689)

        Hey, hey. They don't want useful information. They just want to whine about the government, the Fed, and Biden! If you're not going to post comments that confirm their crazy biases, you clearly shouldn't post anything at all...

        Seriously, I'm amazed at how much people want to believe inflation is high and the economy is poor, despite all evidence to the contrary. I mean, things aren't perfect, but they're doing pretty well.

        • What evidence is there that inflation is not high? Are you fucking stoned? Do you live in the US?

          We paid $50/head for random dinner last night. Health insurance numbers just came in last night, up 18% for next year. Food at the super market is higher than ever. And since we don't see deflation, these prices are locked in as the new normal for most things. If they come down it'll be a lot slower than they went up.

          Wtf are you talking about?

        • Don't know where you live, but here in middle Michigan costs of everything are up, and up a lot. Grocery bill for my family of 5 has more than doubled. Pre-covid we could go out to eat and expect to pay in the $40-50 range for all of us, now we can't get out of a restaurant for under $80, typically more than that. Streaming services have raised prices, many of them twice, utility costs have gone up, the only bright spot is that our house and vehicle pricing is locked in.

          Prices have gotten absolutely insane,

    • by DarkOx ( 621550 ) on Tuesday November 14, 2023 @09:34AM (#64004671) Journal

      It makes the assumption that stuff is highly volatile, gas prices spike one week as the refiners shift to winter blends and than some other month OPEC will vote to increase production and send things down again, so that stuff should 'come out in the wash' therefore ignoring it gives us a better trend line - that is the theory.

      I think this is wrong for a couple reasons. Its the information age now, producers and industrial consumers of energy are much more reactive to prices changes than they used to be. Retail is much more active about repricing things for consumers as well. Watch any product on Amazon, it can easily swing 10% in a month. Its not like 1995 where you just knew a pack of t-shirts was $2 and would be the same $2 at Sears next week as well. So I suspect these price fluctuations hit daily life much much faster, and they don't wash out, stuff might revert to median but producers and retail are never going pass any savings they get on to consumers, unless they are liquidating.

      The other thing is I think food and energy are a bigger portion of the typical house holds budget than they used to be. Decades of productivity gains, and trade have made manufactured goods get cheaper with respect to something like produce which must be picked by hand. This is not say that mechanization and chemistry has not increased farm productivity it has over the past decades but not in the way it did in the immediate post war decades! To that end that disparity in productivity gains over say the last 30 years means that CPI excluding food and energy prices makes it less of proxy for what it "feels like" for Americans trying to make ends meet.

      • > but producers and retail are never going pass any savings they get on to consumers, unless they are liquidating.

        Just a side note on this, I fully agree with everything else you said.

        When they liquidate it's not always the case prices come down. Anecdotal: when bed bath n beyond shut their stores, we looked really hard online and the local store for discounts. Nada. Just looking for a few towels, sheets and pillow cases. Prices were astronomical which is probably why they went under in the first pla

    • These metrics are used to measure the *entire* economy.

      Because oil and food prices can have rapid price swings, but the overall effect on the economy is *usually* minimal, as most companies hedge against these swings. So, while gas might get expensive for half a year because of high oil prices, plastic doesn't get appreciably more expensive because plastic manufacturers have bought cheap futures.

      Just because onions and light sweet crude oil are more expensive doesn't mean the economy will come to a grinding

    • Because when oil prices go up, it's usually because of OPEC, not the FED. It may be a problem for you, but it's not helpful for setting monetary policy.
  • by Echoez ( 562950 ) * on Tuesday November 14, 2023 @10:03AM (#64004735)

    While I'm sure there are some looking to trumpet the good news that core inflation is falling (which excludes food and energy), it's a good reminder this falling inflation does nothing to reverse the previous 2 years of high inflation. Two years of 8% inflation still impacts the prices we're paying today AND 3% is being added on top of that.

    Unless your wages or investments have kept up with that, the fact that inflation is growing less rapidly is no comfort.

    • the fact that inflation is growing less rapidly is no comfort.

      Well, not no comfort. Predictability matters. And certain things will get cheaper again (looking at you, potatoes), but yes you need to track both things. Good news [statista.com].

    • This is the right answer. They (whoever they is) wanted the prices to increase and become the new baseline. Inflation didn't impact companies equally across the board. However, companies equally across the board increased prices on products & services. Many, many companies costs remained the same, but increased prices and created record profits. And they had a built-in mechanism to explain price increases so nobody in the public blamed them directly. They call it the new normal and the prices are not
    • Stop being stupid and poor. Any non-stupid person can effortlessly handla 10 % inflation. If you can't you are stupid.
  • When was the last time they adjusted what items were included in the inflation index? (Like when they changed steak to ground beef, arguing both were beef.)

    Like what things were dropped and what were added this month?

  • How is this tech news?

    Or is /. just about politics now?

  • I am wondering if deflation might happen.

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