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Earth United States

US Joins in Other Nations in Swearing Off Coal Power To Clean the Climate (apnews.com) 204

The United States has committed to the idea of phasing out coal power plants, joining 56 other nations in kicking the coal habit that's a huge factor in global warming. From a report: U.S. Special Envoy John Kerry announced that America was joining the Powering Past Coal Alliance, which means the Biden Administration commits to building no new coal plants and phasing out existing plants. No date was given for when the existing plants would have to go, but other Biden regulatory actions and international commitments already in the works had meant no coal by 2035.

"We will be working to accelerate unabated coal phase-out across the world, building stronger economies and more resilient communities," Kerry said in a statement. "The first step is to stop making the problem worse: stop building new unabated coal power plants." Coal power plants have already been shutting down across the nation due to economics, and no new coal facilities were in the works, so "we were heading to retiring coal by the end of the decade anyway," said climate analyst Alden Meyer of the European think-tank E3G. That's because natural gas and renewable energy are cheaper, so it was market forces, he said.

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US Joins in Other Nations in Swearing Off Coal Power To Clean the Climate

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  • by Mr. Dollar Ton ( 5495648 ) on Monday December 04, 2023 @11:44AM (#64053313)

    Or will this "resolve" die even faster?

    • by dmay34 ( 6770232 ) on Monday December 04, 2023 @11:52AM (#64053353)

      Na. Coal is bleeding out. Nothing will save coal because it's no longer financially competitive. Republicans can revoke all regulations of every kind for coal power and it still won't come back.

      • Well that's where the taxpayer subsidy comes in. Yes, subsidies are bad words when it comes to Republican politics; except for one very important hypocritical exception: fossil fuel extraction.

        • by dmay34 ( 6770232 ) on Monday December 04, 2023 @12:29PM (#64053513)

          Honestly, I still don't think that would work.

          Texas is trying that right now as their solution to our grid problems. Texas was offering direct subsidies for anyone that would rehab a closed FF power plant to provide back up power for outages. No one took it and ERCOT cancelled the soliciation last week.

        • Well that's where the taxpayer subsidy comes in. Yes, subsidies are bad words when it comes to Republican politics; except for one very important hypocritical exception: fossil fuel extraction.

          Voters don't like it when energy costs rise. Democrats have been kicking nuclear power in the balls for the last 50 years. What are Republicans to do? Democrats don't much care if energy prices rise, in fact they've said publicly that rising energy costs are a good thing.

          An interesting part of this is in comparing the official party platforms of both major parties after the Democrats made their big shift to support nuclear power a couple years ago. It was amazing to see just how similar they were. I'm

          • Replacing coal doesn't mean just nuclear and gas. More wind, solar, hydro are also valid options, ones adopted in many Western nations.
            • Replacing coal doesn't mean just nuclear and gas.

              If you want to keep the lights on it does.

              More wind, solar, hydro are also valid options, ones adopted in many Western nations.

              Wind is intermittent. Solar is intermittent and expensive. Hydro is cheap, quite often very reliable, but there's no rivers left to dam to get more power.

              I realize that Western nations adopted all the above. To just maintain what they have for a standard of living, and certainly to improve it, will require nuclear power or natural gas. Remove nuclear power and natural gas then things will not go well. Ask Germany about that. If someone can prove otherwise then

        • Yup, Republicans want to protect your tax dollars - except if the subsidies give them votes. Like all politics of any stripe, ideals take a back seat when it comes to getting elected or getting into power.

      • Tell Alaska that cola is no longer economically stable...Usibelli will laugh at you
      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        Hey, so they can pretend to do some things to make climate change worse in order to make their followers happy, but without the actual damage!

    • by MachineShedFred ( 621896 ) on Monday December 04, 2023 @12:08PM (#64053435) Journal

      Politics can't change economic fact.

      Coal's price advantage is basically gone, and the downsides are very much still there. If you're spending money to build new power generation, coal isn't a very good place to achieve RoI regardless of what chimp gets elected.

      • by kenh ( 9056 )

        Quick, you better tell the Chinese to stop building coal power plants- they have no idea how much money they are wasting on coal-powered generating plants!

        • China, at this point, is mostly replacing old and inefficient ones with new ones whilst expanding nuclear and renewables. If you look at coal usage, its almost flatlined over the past eight years. It's still an amount of CO2 output that's not great for the planet but it could be worse. Replacing the old coal plants with nuclear renewables or even gas rather than coal would be better, of course
        • Quick, you better tell the Chinese to stop building coal power plants- they have no idea how much money they are wasting on coal-powered generating plants!

          China is building virtually zero new coal plants. That is evident in the fact their coal consumption hasn't materially moved in over a decade. China is *replacing existing* coal plants, which makes a lot of sense given the infrastructure is in place to deliver supply and process coal already.

          And China's investment in renewables is dwarfing that of replacing old cold fired stations, and the percentage investment in renewables is dwarfing the percentage invested by the USA. The "OMG BUT CHINA!" meme is gettin

      • Supreme Court appears ready to deal another blow to federal agencies' administrative powers.

        Supreme Court leans toward curbing agency enforcement

        Thank goodness for all of these...it's about time we reign in the Federal overreach, especially by UN-elected bureaucracies which have basically been making "law" despite that being the sole job of congress.

        Looks like too, the SCOTUS is basically gonna slap the ATF's overreach pretty hard here soon too.

        • it's about time we reign in the Federal overreach

          Damn right. It's getting a bit dangerous. What I'm afraid of is some kind of Federal vs State showdown. For example, say the Feds enact some really heinous policies and they incense the Left or the Right badly at the state level. Some governor says "Screw you Feds, we won't enforce that and we won't even let you enforce it, either." Then the next thing you know you have state police or "guard" drawing down on ATF and FBI, possibly until they exit the state or try to bring in reinforcements. Either way is ba

    • It'll die just as soon as someone with power decides that they want some extra votes. Economically, coal is dying all on its own, and no pledges are needed to make this happen. Politically though claiming you can save a few legacy jobs in an industry that is dying by dumping subsidies on it. Modern subsidies seem to be a complete waste of tax moneys; they made more sense when it was to encourage diverse farming practices rather than to prop up industries that can't stand on their own.

      Coal mining employees

    • Well, at least they've committed to the idea of phasing out coal plants. It's symbolic of their struggle against, realit... ahem, symbolic of their struggle towards making the world less averse to the large numbers of people who are going to stop living soon. Here's another conversation about making commitments to ideas that I think is relevant. Enjoy.

      The sketch:
      trumpets
      clap clap clap
      ANNOUNCER: Ladies and gentlemen. The next contest is between... Frank Goliath, the Macedonian baby-crusher, and Boris M
  • In other news, US also promises to use more Natural Gas.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by geekmux ( 1040042 )

      In other news, US also promises to use more Natural Gas.

      Does that also include the hot air billowing from hypocrites mouths as they fly all around the United States in private jets under a "Special Envy" pollution exemption?

      Does that also include shutting down decades-long red-tape corruption-profit centers that prevent nuclear plants from being built?

      We can stop pretending NG will be the "cheap" solution for the next decade, as if Greed doesn't exist in that industry too. We can't even keep political corruption from raising gasonline prices every few months.

    • Which is still an improvement over coal.

      What, did you expect the US to swear off electricity? You first.

  • by Petersko ( 564140 ) on Monday December 04, 2023 @11:52AM (#64053355)

    If you can't phase coal out, fuck it. Give up. Even if you don't accept the premise of climate change as the reason, the problem of particulate matter and the disaster that is mining should already be enough. Yes, it sucks to have a local economy that depends on coal mining. That's a shame, and I feel for you. But understand that's doomed - and it should be.

    • Reinventing yourself. That's what it comes down to. Coal miners who have been mining coal since they were old enough to work in the mines are scared of having to reinvent themselves.

      I get it, it is scary, I have had to do it a few times and each time it gets harder. I used to live in the northeast, fishermen would complain that they weren't allowed to catch stripers any more, because they couldn't find ones that were large enough to legally catch... it never occured to them that the reason that they could

  • by CEC-P ( 10248912 ) on Monday December 04, 2023 @12:01PM (#64053409)
    Non-binding declarations don't do shit.
    Here's the correct order of operations:
    1. Get something else in place that works
    2. Get rid of coal plants

    They keep forgetting #1 for some reason
    • I've seen the studies on what works, and I would hope the politicians making energy policy did the same. What produces low CO2 emissions at low cost is nuclear fission, hydro, onshore wind, and geothermal. Maybe utility scale solar slides in a distant 5th place but there's an argument to be made that natural gas would be a better option.

      Democrats love to put money into offshore wind and rooftop solar. The problem with those are they cost more than nuclear power, and produce more greenhouse gases. Oh, an

      • I've seen the studies on what works, and I would hope the politicians making energy policy did the same. What produces low CO2 emissions at low cost is nuclear fission, hydro, onshore wind, and geothermal. Maybe utility scale solar slides in a distant 5th place but there's an argument to be made that natural gas would be a better option.

        All the studies I've seen place solar around, and often below, the cost of onshore wind. For example: https://www.statista.com/stati... [statista.com]. And I think many of these studies underestimate how much PV costs are going to fall over the next few years.

        I don't think we should focus on any one approach, personally, I think we should just let economics drive it (ideally with a carbon tax in place to internalize the emission externality, but that's probably politically infeasible). But I think solar performs bette

  • by BytePusher ( 209961 ) on Monday December 04, 2023 @12:05PM (#64053423) Homepage
    What are they replacing it with? It wouldn't happen to be natural gas, would it? Methane is 84 times more potent of a greenhouse gas than CO2 and all methods of extraction and transit are very leaky.

    This is not to "clean the climate," but to "clean public tax dollars" and put them in private accounts.

    While I'm not an advocate for coal, it is possible to filter the exhaust sufficiently that the only escaping atmospheric pollution is on par with methane power production.

    Ultimately, we need to change our forever growth economic model to a model based around human survival and quality of live. The Earth won't survive another 100 years of exponential growth in GDP.
    • by dfghjk ( 711126 )

      "Methane is 84 times more potent of a greenhouse gas than CO2 and all methods of extraction and transit are very leaky."

      Which doesn't mean natural gas isn't superior to coal, not that anyone is accepting your premise that "they" are replacing coal with natural gas. Methane isn't a potent greenhouse gas after it is burned.

      "This is not to "clean the climate," but to "clean public tax dollars" and put them in private accounts."

      As if your stupid straw man is fact.

      "While I'm not an advocate for coal, it is poss

    • it is possible to filter the exhaust sufficiently that the only escaping atmospheric pollution is on par with methane power production.

      Sure, it might be possible, but is it economical to do so?

      If coal + filtering makes it more expensive per kWh than natgas turbines but without the quick start / stop you get from natgas turbines, guess which direction the utility companies are going to go for their capital investments?

      They want cheap, and natgas can be turned off when not needed without multiple-hour startup times where you're burning fuel and not making a single watt trying to get the boiler hot again. So:

      1. natgas is cheaper or cost-neut

    • The Earth won't survive another 100 years of exponential growth in GDP

      That depends on how we grow GDP. The largest factor that contributes to productivity is not natural resources or labor, it's knowledge, and knowledge has no inherent upper bound. We just need to ensure that we are focusing our development on minimizing negative environmental impact. As long as the incentives are aligned to increase productivity while minimizing (or even reversing) environmental impact, there's no reason that we can't both continue exponentially growing the economy and maintain or improve t

    • While I'm not an advocate for coal, it is possible to filter the exhaust sufficiently that the only escaping atmospheric pollution is on par with methane power production.

      Implying that exhaust is the only source of pollution and environmental damage? Even if what you said is true (it's not, the carbon intensity of coal is far higher than for natural gas, and most methane leaks are not related to methane production, but rather *oil* production), you conveniently ignore the massive devastation that is coal mining, the horrendous health impacts of transporting coal, and the wonderful giant dams of toxic tailings slurry that get stored (and in some cases wipe entire towns off a

  • Depending on your perspective, this one word makes this news much easier or harder to swallow.

    This agreement still allows coal plants as long as they attempt to reduce their pollution, essentially using carbon capture which has questionable effectiveness.

    https://billmckibben.substack.... [substack.com]

  • Looks like Santa Claus (Kris Kringle, Father Christmas, etc.) will have lots more coal to pass around this holiday season.

    I just hope the power stays on when the outdoor air temps drop to bone-chilling levels because the alternative is a good supply of body bags.

  • More than half of all coal fired power generation is from China - and they are currently building more (and in the last 7 years has built 6 times more than the rest of the world combined)

  • John who? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by tiqui ( 1024021 )

    John Kerry is a former senator and failed presidential candidate who never left town (Washington DC) and now gets appointed to positions that do not actually exist in our government and has no actual authority. Sure, a President can ask somebody to be a "special envoy" on this or that, effectively creating such posts, and announce that the appointee will be allowed to exercise some of the President's authority on a particular subject... but that's just a nice handout to a political ally and has no actual le

  • They are building new coal-powered power plants as fast as they can with no intention of stopping.

"...a most excellent barbarian ... Genghis Kahn!" -- _Bill And Ted's Excellent Adventure_

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