UK Officials Caught Napping Ahead of 2G and 3G Doomsday (theregister.com) 61
A worrying number of UK authorities are still unaware of the impending switch-off of 2G and 3G mobile networks, according to Local Government Association (LGA) figures. From a report: While 38 percent of respondents were fully aware, 27 percent were only partially aware, and 7 percent had no idea at all that the axe would be falling by 2033 at the latest. The numbers worsened when the researchers spoke to respondents in senior management. Almost half (48 percent) were "partially aware" the UK's 2G and 3G mobile networks were due to be switched off and 14 percent were not at all aware.
The actual switch-off will happen over the next few years. UK mobile operators have told government they do not intend to offer 2G and 3G mobile networks past 2033 at the latest, and there is a high likelihood that some networks will be shut down earlier. The UK government said it welcomes plans to end services ahead of time. Vodafone, for example, intends to pull the plug on 3G once and for all from January 2024. Although most consumers, with their 4G and 5G devices, will likely be unaware of the end when it comes, the same cannot be said of local authorities. According to the survey, almost two-thirds of respondents (63 percent) reported that their authority was still using devices or services reliant on 2G and 3G networks.
The actual switch-off will happen over the next few years. UK mobile operators have told government they do not intend to offer 2G and 3G mobile networks past 2033 at the latest, and there is a high likelihood that some networks will be shut down earlier. The UK government said it welcomes plans to end services ahead of time. Vodafone, for example, intends to pull the plug on 3G once and for all from January 2024. Although most consumers, with their 4G and 5G devices, will likely be unaware of the end when it comes, the same cannot be said of local authorities. According to the survey, almost two-thirds of respondents (63 percent) reported that their authority was still using devices or services reliant on 2G and 3G networks.
Partially? (Score:4, Interesting)
What, exactly, does it mean to be partially aware?
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Probably a "I know this is happening but no idea of when or how"
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Just expect a lot of car owners starting to suffer from draining batteries suddenly because the telematics units aren't able to communicate anymore and performs an immense amount of futile attempts to connect to the servers.
As can be seen in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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US already turned off 3G and it's been a non issue (including with my car - the 3G emergency call stopped working, but that's it).
Sucks for Subaru owners, even if there is an easy fix, but how many 10+ year old Subarus will be on the road in the UK in 2033?
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If you follow up more details you'll figure out that Subaru isn't the only brand, it's just one example. Even later models need updates to cope with the lack of 2G and 3G.
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Should I feel smug that my 23 year old Land Rover has no "G" tech?
AM and FM Radio still works.
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US already turned off 3G and it's been a non issue (including with my car - the 3G emergency call stopped working, but that's it).
Sucks for Subaru owners, even if there is an easy fix, but how many 10+ year old Subarus will be on the road in the UK in 2033?
The comms in my 2015 Nissan Leaf stopped working. No big loss, since it was utterly useless anyway, but it happened.
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What, exactly, does it mean to be partially aware?
Have you ever seen someone on Slashdot talk about privacy laws, or anti-trust laws? Partially aware is what most people are about most things.
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What, exactly, does it mean to be partially aware?
The fine summary mentions UK Local Government Authorities (LGA) or local councils as they're known colloquially in the UK. To put this into more international terms, these are county/parish, city and municipal governments.
Partially aware refers to their level of sentience.
There telco would have been regulatorily obliged to inform them that the older networks will be switched off some months in advance, I received a warning 12, 6 and finally 3 months in advance, especially as my telco was shutting down
UK has the same problem the US has (Score:2)
It's like putting a luddite in charge of your science program, it's not going to end well.
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too many people put in charge of government who don't believe in government. It's like putting a luddite in charge of your science program, it's not going to end well.
When a politician's entire platform is, "Government is inept. Elect me and I'll prove it," and they still get elected? We're not exactly getting anything we don't deserve.
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Quite.
If a politician brags about being terrible at their job, I say believe then.
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Well, the Luddites were against machinery that injured and were for the workers sharing the profits, very uncapitalistic but not sure of the drawbacks for society as a whole and why safe science with the profits going to the people is a bad ending.
Who the hell cares? (Score:2)
If my city councillor, MPP, or MP have no clue about the mobile network supporting my region... I really don't care.
Anyone in operations - say, emergency services or public works - who deals with communications systems should know this. Maybe. It's still a few years ahead of a typical refresh cycle, so I still wouldn't worry if they didn't know either.
Worst case, they suddenly have to buy a rather large number of phones and modems... which is exactly what they'd have to do anyway. The only difference wou
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Well, the summary did say Vodafone is pulling the plug on 3G come January of 2024, so they perhaps should have already prepared?
What about automotive updates using cellular radio (Score:2)
Problems come when equipment such as an automobile, last longer than the cellular radio network. A few years back, Nissan had to retrofit 3G modems to replace the original 2G modems in some of their vehicles because the 2G data network had been turned off. This will get worse the future as modern cars typically connect to the cellular radio network for updates. OK, system updates can use WiFi but push services go over the cellular network.
Smartmeters may use the cellular radio network. Hopefully, the data m
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>A few years back, Nissan had to retrofit 3G modems to replace the original 2G modems in some of their vehicles because the 2G data network had been turned off.
I'm a techie not a Luddite... but if a car requires a modem then it's never going to be my car so long as there is a viable alternative.
I carry my own Big Brother terminal already, in the form of an Android phone.
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Problems come when equipment such as an automobile, last longer than the cellular radio network. A few years back, Nissan had to retrofit 3G modems to replace the original 2G modems in some of their vehicles because the 2G data network had been turned off. This will get worse the future as modern cars typically connect to the cellular radio network for updates. OK, system updates can use WiFi but push services go over the cellular network.
Smartmeters may use the cellular radio network. Hopefully, the data modem is easy to replace on-site as that could be costly to retrofit.
That's not a problem. It's a nice feature that the governments can use to force people out of ICE vehicles. Older tech is considered unsafe. If they can just convince us all that's true of everything? The owner class can use that to push "updates" that force new purchases on everyone at predictable, profitable times.
Isn't the modern world marvelous!?
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even though the writing was on the wall for 3G even "a few years ago" Nissan doesnt expect their cars to go much past the lease period or the next "sales" event whichever one comes first
I mean hell its a miracle to get 60K out of one of their shit CVT's, but its still nearly 2x the time of the typical lease period
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My 2015 Model S had 4G, and even if it didn't, it could still get updates over WiFi. Many other car companies have been much slower to adjust to the newer technology. Perhaps there should be a mandatory recall for cars newer than some date that will lose functionality due to this, such as any model 2017 or newer.
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In the early days smart meters used cellular as an option. But individual cellular modems per smart meter was outdated even 10 years ago.
But these days, they all use some proprietary network usually around 900MHz or so, though long range networks might use low speed 220MHz. These meters connect to collector boxes which are basically the RF modem, some computing, and a larg
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Hmm, the government, who owns the power company, paid for my local cell tower around 2019 so the smart meters would work. This also stopped the electric company from replacing my smart meter every so often as it didn't work and no more meter reader showing up in my driveway to read the smart meter. As a bonus, I switched from dial up to an LTE connection and ditched the $50 a month land line.
Re: What about automotive updates using cellular r (Score:1)
Do. You have a reference for that? I've always thought my smart meter used a 2G modem in the electricity meter and my gas meter connected to the electricity meter. It was only installed last year.
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There is a lawsuit about Subarus suffering persistent battery drain due to the shutdown of 3G networks in the USA.
https://wbe-llp.com/investigat... [wbe-llp.com]
So what? (Score:2)
I can't imagine anything LESS important for public officials to know anything about.
Exactly nothing and nobody that still maters is using second generation tech at this point.
3G might still be important for a few things like security systems and automotive emergency services applications, but 2033 it wont be.
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Cheap GPS trackers... which you might think isn't much of an issue but they're great for dementia patients who are wander risks. It's not just helicopter parents, stalkers, and cops who use them.
General fleet tracking I wouldn't worry so much about, that's probably handled with contracted fleet tracking services and those vendors will be happy to tell their clients they're getting billed for a mandatory upgrade.
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"Cheap GPS trackers... which you might think isn't much of an issue but they're great for dementia patients who are wander risks. It's not just helicopter parents, stalkers, and cops who use them."
If they had dementia a few years ago, whats the chance they would be still around, much less wandering, in 10 years time?
Early onset dementia (Score:1)
If they had dementia a few years ago, whats the chance they would be still around, much less wandering, in 10 years time?
Actor Bruce Willis is 68, has dementia, and is expected to live ten or even fifteen more years.
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Fuck off.
You can still wind up in the arse end of nowhere and only have a 2G signal.
It's pretty important of those places start getting nothing at all.
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And you can wind up in the arse end of nowhere having only a carrier pigeon in your pocket.
You have no point, relying on long obsolete crap that doesn't work is your fault, no one else's.
Snowflake.
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You have no point, relying on long obsolete crap that doesn't work is your fault, no one else's.
Hey shithead, you reckon it's my job to install phone masts? Wanker.
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Bullshit - LTE Extended (4g) can run on the same frequencies and is if anything better in poor SNR situations than 2G GSM equipment.
Its not like the carriers are turning it off because they are not going to put replacement newer stuff in the same places.
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Bullshit - LTE Extended (4g) can run on the same frequencies and is if anything better in poor SNR situations than 2G GSM equipment.
So... why do I only get 2G in the fuck end of nowhere? Either my phone is mistaken and will learn something new from your post, or you are.
I do love "your facts must be wrong because REASONS" energy though.
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Three possible reasons: 1. Phone company voluntarily has not installed upgraded equipment. 2. Phone company has been unable to install upgraded equipment, for example they may not have licenses available to put 5G out in the 700MHz space, something which would be possible when they turn off the 2G service. 3. Your phone is in fallback mode searching for any usable signal, and that 2G is more wishful thinking than a practical connection you can use.
There's zero reason 2G works where 3, 4 or 5G doesn't. Quite
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If you want to be angry, call up your local telecoms company and complain to them about their lack of investment.
lolwtf. You think a > £10 billion company is going to give a flying fuck what I say on the phone?!
No, of course they won't which is why the government is the best bet for making sure critical infrastructure is in place. Which brings us right on to the topic of TFA...
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Where are you getting this information from? The typical size of a 5G cell is way smaller than a 2G's. I can't say if the signal is better comparatively within the cell range (probably it is), but coverage is a completely different thing. Also, although the lowest end of the low frequency 5G band is 450MHz, they usually operate at
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Theorectically the frequences used by 2G has longer range and could be reused by 5G, but yeah I also doubt it will end up with the same range. Range goes down when data density goes up.
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You mean other than the various traffic monitors, traffic lights, government owned vehicles, and such?
Re: So what? (Score:2)
Leave 2G up for "emergency calls only" (Score:1)
With the expected low call volume, you can put a 2G antenna on a tall tower and cover a decent-sized city.
The only major economic reason not to is spectrum reallocation.
As far as sunsetting 2G, 3G, or any other widely-used spectrum allocation: Give manufacturers plenty of advanced notice that their devices will be obsolete, so they don't market a device intended to last over a decade, only to find out a year later "the tech is being shut down in 5, sorry sucker."
Old instruments never die (Score:2)
These things never truly die. Would you replace a multi-million dollar system just because a $500 component stopped working? That's very difficult to justify. Just like when NASA has to source ancient computer parts -- it's still cheaper than a complete replacement of an old system. Many manufacturing plants have legacy systems like this. There are still pneumatic controls in use all over.
I worked at one site that had an old fire suppression system in the central control room, it was completely unsupported
100 sum game (Score:2)
While 38 percent of respondents were fully aware, 27 percent were only partially aware, and 7 percent had no idea at all
So in assuming base 10 here, that’s 72%, WTF was the remaining 28%?!? When they were called up did they just interrupt with something like”Fk off mate, the leprechauns and frogs are at war again, no time to ta*click*” which falls into an alternate reality? Or maybe they dialed into the afterlife and all they could hear were groans and screams? WTF.
Switching off 3G (Score:3)
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3G launched in the UK on the 2100MHz frequency. Later on, O2 and Vodafone repurposed some of their 2G spectrum (900Mhz) to use for 3G services.
The 700Mhz and 800Mhz frequencies have only ever been used for 4G and 5G here.
Once 2G and 3G are retired, I'd expect the spectrum freed up to become available for 4G and 5G services. Typically, the network operators agree a variation of their licence with OFCOM to enable this.
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It's a shame they couldn't make it like WiFi, where it is backwards compatible for older devices. There are limits on WiFi too, mainly that older devices don't sort WPA2 and WEP is broken, but an old 802.11b device can connect to a modern ax access point
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It's a shame they couldn't make it like WiFi, where it is backwards compatible for older devices. There are limits on WiFi too, mainly that older devices don't sort WPA2 and WEP is broken, but an old 802.11b device can connect to a modern ax access point
WEP and WPA were authentication and encryption protocols, not frequencies. 802.11 has used multiple frequencies, it's just that 2.4 and 5 GHz are the most popular ones. 802.11n operates on both, 802.11ax introduces a 6 GHz band to the mix.
With mobile telephony, a wider range of bands are used because the bands have different characteristics, most notably range. Generally speaking shorter wavelengths (I.E. 2100 MHz) will have shorter range but better speed, longer wavelengths like 900 MHz will have the op
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is ridiculous, most of those bands were in the sub 1GHz range. Most companies have implemented 4G and 5G in bands that are 1GHz+ which has a harder time penetrating into buildings,
Why do you think that is? If your answer was because the 3G spectrum was already in use then you win today's flaming-obvious award. Now apply that knowledge to what is going on, along with the realisation that 5G defined low-band sub 1GHz spectrum for a reason.
Switching off 3G just frees up the space for migration to other technologies (such as 5G) in that same spectrum solving precisely the problem you're complaining about. They don't even need to build new towers.
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Yep. I'd rather have 3G over 4G and 5G due to reliabilities in the rural and other areas. :(
Already off in the USA (Score:3)
Good luck getting a 2G or 3G signal in the USA. I think T-Mobile may still have some 2G service for a few months, but everything else is already off. Yeah, some in-car systems stopped working, but it certainly hasn't been a disaster. I don't think most people even heard about it.
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but it certainly hasn't been a disaster
Disasters are all relative to how a company adopts a technology and how they build up their dependence on it. In the USA much of the smart infrastructure is ... well... okay we'll leave jokes aside about the complete lack of smart infrastructure compared to many European countries, but where you do have things such as smart energy meters they were largely implemented and operating on an RF mesh network in a licensed spectrum.
Compare that to the UK where there was a *huge* rollout of energy meters which reli
Your car battery might keep going flat (Score:2)
https://wbe-llp.com/investigat... [wbe-llp.com]
"Subaru owners have reported experiencing premature parasitic battery drain in vehicles equipped with Starlink in-vehicle technology. The defect presents itself when the equipped data communications module (DCM) attempts to communicate with 3G cellular networks. As 3G networks within the U.S. are no longer functioning, the call will continuously fail even after the vehicle has been turned off, draining the battery and resulting in a no-start safety risk for drivers."
Hidden magic box problem (Score:2)
Not your father's phone company. (Score:2)
This is definitely not your father's phone company. To this day, you can dig a 1950's princess phone out of your grandparent's (or great grandparent's) basement, crimp on an RJ11, plug it in to the wall and call someone.
With just a little ingenuity and a workaround or two, you can make do with a candlestick phone from the 1930s.
2G was first launched in 1991 and is already gone from many places. 3G started in 2001 or so, also already gone in many places.
For actual cellphones, it's not a big deal. A 2G handhe
3G in the UK today (Score:2)
I rarely see the 3G symbol in the UK and see Edge even less. I've seen GPRS once in the last five years.
What's interesting is that when I'm connected to 3G, data services just don't seem to work. I'm not talking about resource-heavy applications like video streaming (although we did stream YouTube over 3G back in the day). I'm talking about apps which will be exchanging small packets of data with a server over REST APIs.
So for me it's already useless. It gives a glimmer of hope that never satisfies.
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What's interesting is that when I'm connected to 3G, data services just don't seem to work.
The thing is your phone is selecting 3G as a fallback method when no other services are within range. This usually means that the signal is pathetically weak and it's no surprise you can't get data services to work. The same happens pretty much everywhere with a modern phone.
If on the other hand you jump in your phone settings and disable 4G 5G and LTE-A the phone will fall back to 3G when it still has an acceptable signal strength and you'll find data services work just fine... in the early 2000s kind of d