Become a fan of Slashdot on Facebook

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Earth

Earth Was Due for Another Year of Record Warmth. But This Warm? (nytimes.com) 205

Earth is finishing up its warmest year in the past 174 years, and very likely the past 125,000. From a report: Unyielding heat waves broiled Phoenix and Argentina. Wildfires raged across Canada. Flooding in Libya killed thousands. Wintertime ice cover in the dark seas around Antarctica was at unprecedented lows. This year's global temperatures did not just beat prior records. They left them in the dust. From June through November, the mercury spent month after month soaring off the charts. December's temperatures have largely remained above normal: Much of the Northeastern United States is expecting springlike conditions this week.

That is why scientists are already sifting through evidence -- from oceans, volcanic eruptions, even pollution from cargo ships -- to see whether this year might reveal something new about the climate and what we are doing to it. One hypothesis, perhaps the most troubling, is that the planet's warming is accelerating, that the effects of climate change are barreling our way more quickly than before. "What we're looking for, really, is a bunch of corroborating evidence that all points in the same direction," said Chris Smith, a climate scientist at the University of Leeds. "Then we're looking for causality. And that will be really interesting."

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Earth Was Due for Another Year of Record Warmth. But This Warm?

Comments Filter:
  • by cascadingstylesheet ( 140919 ) on Thursday December 28, 2023 @09:43AM (#64111839) Journal

    ... and go fully nuclear.

    What's that, no? You'd rather just make political hay and emote about it? Okay.

    • yawn (Score:4, Insightful)

      by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Thursday December 28, 2023 @09:46AM (#64111843) Homepage Journal

      Another message from the nuclear playboys that can't math

      It's faster and cheaper to build renewables plus storage

      END OF LINE

      • It's faster and cheaper to build renewables plus storage

        False. Storage is too expensive to be practical. We're waiting for new technology there.

      • by dbialac ( 320955 )
        Storage requires massive amounts of mining to get the necessary lithium. Creating the batteries also creates a ton of CO2. When operated correctly, nuclear plants produce little pollution. Fukushima is a valuable lesson in engineering with nuclear technology: if some hair brained engineer comes up with some outrageous number that is needed to protect the surrounding area from an accident at the plant, follow it. It's far better that you spend some money and he's wrong than save that money and he's right.
      • How much storage? Oh wait minutes of storage when we need days. It turns out building a clean energy grid with nuclear, solar, and wind is cheaper than building one with solar, wind and storage. Faster too. Grid level storage is not going to get built. The scale is just to great to build enough in time to mitigate climate change. So what happens if we don't build enough storage? Well we will continue to burn fossil fuels.
        • by dryeo ( 100693 )

          Yep, we have recent examples of how quick nuclear is to build in France, the UK and the States. Even China has taken how long to ramp up nuclear plant production and still needs to build coal plants while they continue to ramp up nuclear production as ramping up things like forges to build containment structures is slow.

    • by whitroth ( 9367 )

      Simple question: how are you on permanent storage of nuclear waste within 20 mi of where you live?

      • by dbialac ( 320955 )
        In the US, most nuclear waste is stored at the plants because of a lack of a long-term storage area. Given that, if you're in a city there's already a reasonable chance you're within 20 miles of long-term storage and you've been doing just fine for quite some time.
    • by dbialac ( 320955 )
      Ironically, eco policies [science.org] are contributing to the warming. Climate policy needs to stay focused on CO2 and methane. While they're not great to have, some pollutants are helping keeping the planet cooler and need to be kept around until the CO2/methane problem is resolved.
    • by GameboyRMH ( 1153867 ) <gameboyrmh@@@gmail...com> on Thursday December 28, 2023 @02:43PM (#64112659) Journal

      You can't hurry up and go nuclear, that's why nuclear can't contribute to addressing global warming in time. It takes decades to build a new reactor and we only have 1-2 decades to decarbonize. Renewables with storage are faster and cheaper, nuclear only makes sense for places that don't have the geography for renewables.

    • We should also stop with the meat consumption too. That farming creates more greenhouse gas.

  • by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Thursday December 28, 2023 @10:03AM (#64111885)

    is another man's nicer weather.

    I live at 65N latitude and this summer, the weather was so balmy that we essentially had no mosquitoes. That's super-rare in boreal regions. And this winter is shaping up to be exceptionally mild and excellent for cross-country skiing.

    It's nicer for us temporarily, but of course it's a very bad symptom and the forerunner of another kind of ecological disaster here in the north, because nature isn't built to cope with for those conditions here. But at least while it lasts and the consequences aren't there yet, it's quite enjoyable.

    • by The-Ixian ( 168184 ) on Thursday December 28, 2023 @10:45AM (#64111985)

      While I do like the warmer weather, temperature-wise, if it comes at the cost of fewer sunny days, I think I would rather go for the "cold and sunny" over "warm and dreary"

    • is another man's nicer weather.

      I live at 65N latitude and this summer, the weather was so balmy that we essentially had no mosquitoes. That's super-rare in boreal regions. And this winter is shaping up to be exceptionally mild and excellent for cross-country skiing.

      It's nicer for us temporarily, but of course it's a very bad symptom and the forerunner of another kind of ecological disaster here in the north, because nature isn't built to cope with for those conditions here. But at least while it lasts and the consequences aren't there yet, it's quite enjoyable.

      I'm way down in the tropics at 53N latitude. This winter has been hovering around zero (using real units) so whenever we get a bit of snow the freeze/thaw cycle turns sidewalks into a skating rink.

      And of course not enough snow for cross-country skiing.

    • is another man's nicer weather.
      I live at 65N latitude and this summer, the weather was so balmy that we essentially had no mosquitoes. That's super-rare in boreal regions. And this winter is shaping up to be exceptionally mild and excellent for cross-country skiing.
      It's nicer for us temporarily, but of course it's a very bad symptom and the forerunner of another kind of ecological disaster here in the north, because nature isn't built to cope with for those conditions here. But at least while it lasts and the consequences aren't there yet, it's quite enjoyable.

      Enjoy it before the ticks find out :/

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Sulfur dioxide? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Immerman ( 2627577 ) on Thursday December 28, 2023 @10:12AM (#64111907)

    Did they factor in the sudden drop in global cloud coverage over the oceans?

    Banning high-sulfur fuels in cargo ships was a good move when it comes to reducing acid rain - but it became obvious very quickly that the ocean-spanning clouds seeded by the resulting sulfur dioxide had been causing a powerful global cooling effect, and removing them is nearly doubling the rate at which the planet is warming.

    Personally, it seems to me like maybe we should roll back the new ban until we've got the warming under a bit more control. Is reducing acid rain for a few decades really worth cutting the time we have to avert catastrophic global warming in half?

    Instead, the only proposals I've seen have been adding new, expensive additives to the fuel to get a similar effect. Which realistically seems VERY unlikely to happen, especially compared to the ease with which everyone would be happy to go back to the old cheap bunker fuel.

    • by CAIMLAS ( 41445 )

      Unfortunately, the ULS fuels have been a real boon for petrochemical companies. It may be "good for the environment", but it's even better for the pump price of fuel (going up).

      Despite it being a very significant improvement to the (US) economy to reverse the ban, and a net benefit to the environment in the short term, it'll never happen. Just like with all of these "feel good" initiatives, they're first and foremost about padding the pockets of power brokers. Whether or not it helps the environment is not

    • Banning high-sulfur fuels in cargo ships was a good move when it comes to reducing acid rain - but it became obvious very quickly that the ocean-spanning clouds seeded by the resulting sulfur dioxide had been causing a powerful global cooling effect, and removing them is nearly doubling the rate at which the planet is warming.

      In particular, as of a couple months ago the climate scientists were estimating that the sulfur cleanup driven ship track reduction was more than enough to explain ALL of the ocean sur

  • Isn't it amazing how the same trolls have switched seamlessly from "Global Warming is a lie" to "It's too late to do anything about Global Warming, so why destroy the economy trying?"

    • People are struggling to make ends meet and climate change and its proposed solutions look to make life harder, therefore people who last year would have nodded along to everything the AGW reports said are now being pulled into the conversation.
    • by CAIMLAS ( 41445 )

      No, some of us "trolls" are still adamant that "global warming is a lie".

      No, we're not denying that climate is changing. That's evident, and it's probably been 30 years since you've had anyone make that argument. And, no, we're not denying that humans have had a non-trivial impact on it.

      Some of us are denying that it's a bad thing, and some of us are denying that it isn't primarily the result of larger cycles humans can't control.

      What is absolutely evident is that the "global warming movement" is a scam - e

      • As soon as you start blathering about green energy subsidies, I can't respect you as a serious person. Even decades after it has attained the status of full maturity, it continues to receive subsidies that dwarf those going to renewable energy, which is still developing.

        And at this point, your carefully-worded "I'm not saying it but really I am" nonsense about GW being the result of larger cycles or being beneficial is...not terribly intellectual. And your contention that it's been 30 years since anybody

        • by CAIMLAS ( 41445 )

          Provide to provide some evidence/clarity for the subsidies that (something other than green energies) receives? What're you talking about, exactly?

          There's a slight difference between tax writeoffs (which is the majority of what petro subsidy is) and "green" subsidy, which largely fun both the production and consumer adoption, while at the same time penalizing traditional energy production.

      • Edit for clarity: Even decades after it has attained the status of full maturity, THE FOSSIL FUEL SECTOR continues to receive subsidies that dwarf those going to renewable energy, which is still developing.

        • by CAIMLAS ( 41445 )

          I mean....are you even trying to be honest, or are you just making things up knowing full well they're wrong?

          "Federal subsidies to support renewable energy formed nearly half of all federal energy-related support between fiscal years 2016 and 2022. Traditional fuels (coal, natural gas, oil and nuclear) received just 15 percent of all subsidies between FY 2016 and FY 2022, while renewables, conservation and end use received a whopping 85 percent."

          https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/renewa

        • by CAIMLAS ( 41445 )

          Keep in mind, this doesn't even include the "electric car" subsidies provided by automakers by requirement of the government, or the subsidies given for purchasing "green" technologies which feed back into the grid for home owners like solar and wind.

      • Why are you anti-science?
  • Kryten: Causality? Well, OK, you know, one event causes another, OK, but sometimes, you just gotta say, the laws of time and space? Who gives a smeg?
  • It was a 3xxx level elective. One of the major processes taught was the conveyor belt currents that took warm ocean water to the higher latitudes and made them habitable. If these break down, we experience an ice age. So it seems that if we are experiencing rapid warming, that currents will die and usher in an ice age.

    • So it seems that if we are experiencing rapid warming, that currents will die and usher in an ice age.

      Then the gorillas will freeze to death [youtube.com] and all our problems will be solved.
    • by CAIMLAS ( 41445 )

      I think that's likely to happen, with a caveat... the flip side would be if we get more CO2 released, the atmosphere will be stabilized and plants will flourish, creating a broader greenhouse effect in northern latitudes, increasing habitable area. (We're seeing some of this in Saharan Africa right now: marginally increased CO2 is increasing plant vitality, decreasing their need for water, and greening areas which haven't been green in millennia - dropping the ground temperature in those areas in the proces

    • While the UK is likely to have a bad time of it more or less as soon as the belt shuts down... turning around 2C of warming into an ice age isn't going to happen on anything approaching a comfortable time frame.

  • MsMash adds three (3) OOM to her  climate-crisis intro like Jack grows a beanstock. It's 174 == 125,000 . Girl's got snap & snaz, but no snoop after useful details.  Is she a true believer or a true deceiver ?   
  • "Up, up, and away!" -- Superman

  • I live in the Phoenix metro area. Our biggest problem here is the heat island the city creates. It's caused by all the concrete, asphalt, air conditioners, etc, storing heat and radiating it out at night when things should have cooled off. It creates a massive self-sustaining plume of heat which wards off clouds and keeps things sweltering. This can also make the next day even hotter. Outside of the city, it's still hot and dry, but not as bad.

    Go about 100 miles north of Phoenix to the forests of north

"The vast majority of successful major crimes against property are perpetrated by individuals abusing positions of trust." -- Lawrence Dalzell

Working...