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Earth

Germany's Emissions Hit 70-Year Low As It Reduces Reliance on Coal (theguardian.com) 220

Germany's emissions hit a 70-year low last year as Europe's largest economy reduced its reliance on coal. From a report: A study by the thinktank Agora Energiewende found that Germany emitted 673m tonnes of greenhouse gases in 2023, 73m tonnes fewer than in 2022. The drop was "largely attributable to a strong decrease in coal power generation," Agora said, accounting for a reduction of 46m tonnes in CO2 emissions. Emissions from industry fell significantly, largely due to a decline in production by energy-intensive companies.

Electricity generation from renewable sources was more than 50% of the total in 2023 for the first time, while coal's share dropped to 26% from 34%, according to the federal network agency. Germany had resorted to coal following the Russian invasion of Ukraine, when Moscow cut off gas supplies. But since then Germany has significantly reduced its use of the fossil fuels.

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Germany's Emissions Hit 70-Year Low As It Reduces Reliance on Coal

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  • They were removing Windfarms for coal mining. We need more than just reducing emissions, we need to develop technology for surviving in hot burning conditions that won't go away.
    • Coal use in Germany for power has trended down since 1990. The rate was highest 1990-6 but has continued. The hyped increase 2021-present is a pretty small blip in the trend and has now ended, it seems as emissions fell along with coal use falling again. Germany still burns far too much coal for power, though.
    • This story keeps on getting repeated. In Germany, they dismantled three wind turbines because they were sitting on land that got used for an open cast coal mine. It was about half of a small wind farm, so the use of plural is wrong.

      In the mean time, Germany is expanding it's wind power generation elsewhere.

  • Germany failed (Score:4, Informative)

    by atomicalgebra ( 4566883 ) on Thursday January 04, 2024 @12:57PM (#64131689)

    This is propaganda attempting to dismiss German failures. Germany averaged 431 g CO2 per kWh for the last 12 months. Compare that to France which averaged 53 g CO2 per kWh. Germany is 8x dirtier than France. Germany uses gas for heating while France uses clean electricity. Also Germany industry has a proven record of falsifying emissions.

    Face reality. Germany picked coal over nuclear, and the climate is paying the price.

    • France is mostly nuclear which is always panned as infeasible on slashdot.
      • The French nuke plants were built long ago with massive state subsidies, and even now they are basically owned by the state. There is nothing preventing nuke plants from being constructed in the US other than the fact that they are routinely over budget, many years late, and the electricity isn't competitive.

        • by cusco ( 717999 )

          To a great extent this is because of the US's absurd number of lawyers who all want to be millionaires and the overweening greed of the insurance cartels. It doesn't help that most of the large construction companies here who have the capabilities to build something like a nuke plant are accustomed to the graft and waste of Pentagon projects. Pretty much a "worst of all possible worlds" situation.

        • Whether you like her or not, this is a pretty good dive into exactly what you're talking about - and why what you say is technically true, but misleading.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

          • I like some of that lady's videos but she comes across as stridently pro-nuclear in your link. Trying too hard.

            Meanwhile, "Germany failed" is a bogus claim.

            • Is that a refutation of her assertions? Not liking her manner isn't the same as disagreeing with her.

      • France is mostly nuclear which is always panned as infeasible on slashdot.

        There's an anonymous coward that likes to post "nobody wants nukes" on Slashdot, usually with cherry picked examples of nuclear power plant projects failing to meet goals on budget and schedule. There's over 400 civil nuclear power reactors operating in the world today, picking out a handful of examples showing some kind of failure doesn't make nuclear power infeasible. We don't declare all passenger jetliners as unsafe because of a couple crashes of the Boeing 737 MAX, neither should we declare nuclear p

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Aircraft have a very good safety record. Civilian nuclear reactors don't. What other industry would tolerate a 1.5% catastrophic failure rate?

          • by gweihir ( 88907 )

            No industry that actually has to pay for its failures. There is a lie that gets pushed in this context, namely that nukes cannot be insured. That is not actually true. Friend of mine was the chief risk modeller for non-standard risks for a back-insurer for more than a decade. He told me that sure, nukes could be insured and the back=insurers provided the numbers back when. The major cost of an individual failure would have exceeded the capability of any single back-insurer, but you just spread it out and th

      • It can be done, it's just expensive. It might also not be viable long term without different fuel cycles if everyone does it.
        • It's pretty obvious when you can't reuse your fuel and have to store spent fuel rods (with nowhere to go) you will have cost inefficiency. Jimmy Carter pretty much killed nuclear power in the US when he put a moratorium on breeder reactors in the 70s.
      • by sinij ( 911942 )

        France is mostly nuclear which is always panned as infeasible on slashdot.

        I know, such anti-technology fact-denying views at the very least should get your Nerd Membership card revoked. But we had to lower admission standards to let in all the cryptobros, so there is that...

        • by cusco ( 717999 )

          I've even seen Helen Caldicott referenced here as though she weren't known to lie about anything to do with any sort of radiation (including cell towers and power lines).

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        France is 70% nuclear, which is the recognized maximum an electricity grid can have in unreliable and inflexible nuclear before going unstable. France is planning a lot of wind-farms though, but a mere 4 new reactors long term and these are clearly only because they need them to maintain their nuclear arsenal. Same as Hinkley point for the Brits.

        Think it is not about nuclear weapons maintenance? Think again: https://www.lemonde.fr/idees/a... [lemonde.fr]

        Even France admits that nuclear is economically non-viable and need

    • Re:Germany failed (Score:5, Informative)

      by ZipNada ( 10152669 ) on Thursday January 04, 2024 @01:40PM (#64131851)

      Germany 'picked' wind and solar, which have been producing an ever larger percentage of grid electricity. The coal plants are being phased out, why did you lie?

      Meanwhile, "Despite predictions of shortages and blackouts, Germany produces more energy than it needs, exporting energy to France over the summer, note Green Party leaders pointedly, where nuclear power stations could not operate because of extreme weather."
      https://www.bbc.com/news/world... [bbc.com]

      • Re:Germany failed (Score:4, Insightful)

        by atomicalgebra ( 4566883 ) on Thursday January 04, 2024 @04:08PM (#64132515)
        If Germany picked wind and solar why are the averaging 431 g CO2 per kWh? And that is after spending 500 billion euros on wind and solar.
        • If Germany 'picked coal' why did GHG emissions there fall about 40% since 1991?
          https://www.cleanenergywire.or... [cleanenergywire.org]

          • If Germany 'picked coal' why did GHG emissions there fall about 40% since 1991?

            They picked coal/lignite/gas as complementary energy source for solar/wind. Which is why they emit ~8-9 times more CO2 per kWh than France. Since 50 years. In order to reach France level, they need their GHG emissions per kWh to fall by 90-95%... If they managed to do 40% between 1991 and 2023, which is about 30 years, should we wait for them to catch up in the next 50 years or so? This is by not even taking into account that the easiest gains are the first ones (low hanging fruits).

            The main problem with th

            • "They picked coal/lignite/gas as complementary energy source for solar/wind", that's some hilariously tortured logic. Coal is the legacy power source Germany has clearly worked to get away from. The 'Maths' show that.

          • You didn't answer my question fuckstick. If Germany picked wind and solar why are they averaging 431 g CO2 per kWh after spending 500 billion euros on wind and solar? The answer is they also picked coal.
      • Meanwhile, "Despite predictions of shortages and blackouts, Germany produces more energy than it needs, exporting energy to France over the summer, note Green Party leaders pointedly, where nuclear power stations could not operate because of extreme weather."

        This is good! Diversity of clean energy sources is exactly what we need!

      • Germany produces more energy than it needs, exporting energy to France over the summer, note Green Party leaders pointedly

        You do realize the green party leaders are not really the best source to base your assertions on? They are quite infamous for being anti-nuclear first and foremost, and have been known to always try to make a show of looking better than France.

        But if you look at actual figures [www.ffe.de], from independent sources, you can see that in summer 2023 Germany was actually importing electricity... There were even reports back in August/September of 2023 that France was back to top power exporter in Europe, while at the same

        • "You do realize the green party leaders are not really the best source to base your assertions on?"

          Are you claiming they lied when they said Germany exported energy to France over the summer when "nuclear power stations could not operate because of extreme weather"? You didn't even read my link, did you.

    • A drop is a drop. Could Germany do better? Yes.
    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Actually what you are trying to push here is propaganda. Germany has not failed. France is, again, very lucky for a mild winter or they would have blackouts due to their failed nuclear strategy.

      Your lies do not get more credible by endless repetition.

      • Germany failed.
        • by gweihir ( 88907 )

          Nope. A fanatic like you is unable to see facts though. Germany is doing just fine and electricity import/export with France is balanced. Just that France is paying a _lot_ more for it because they need it in peak hours at high prices. Germany did import a lot of electricity from Denmark, which is 80% renewables.

          Reference: https://www.smard.de/page/home... [smard.de]

          Your lies, often repeated, have no connection to the actual reality and actual facts. Here is a hint: Making crap up does not make you right.

  • Germany could have hit this target years ago, if it had not shutdown working midlife nuclear planets. Selfishly it even continuing to do so once the energy price crisis had started, driving up the price of energy across the EU, whilst still importing nuclear generated energy from France.

    At one point the Green government even started knocking down wind farms, to get at the lignite beneath them. Lignite or brown coal, is the dirtiest form of energy on the planet, yet the Greens prefer it to zero carbon clear

    • I'm seeing no cite for any of your claims, so I am ignoring them.

    • Why would they knock down wind farms to get something which is being used less? Can you provide evidence?
      • by cusco ( 717999 )

        They moved three windmills because they were close enough to an open pit mine that they could have been destablized by further mining. Big whoop.

        • by gweihir ( 88907 )

          Indeed. The nuclear morons have no ability to fact-check though, so that minor thing, which is not even "knocked down", but "moved" becomes "They are abandoning wind-farms for coal!"

          These people are really the most damned of disconnected liars, nothing else.

    • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Thursday January 04, 2024 @02:42PM (#64132179)

      if it had not shutdown working midlife nuclear planets

      It only shut down a tiny handful of working midlife nuclear plants. What they actually did was shut down mostly end of life nuclear plants, some of which had already had multiple operating extension past end of life.

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        Exactly. And these were providing, at peak times, 5% or so of German electricity consumption. Which was base-load and hence pretty unusable, since Germany wants and needs regulation energy. Nuclear cannot deliver that.

        Incidentally, same time in Switzerland, one of its few nukes got shut down by the operator several years before they would have had to because it was draining money like crazy and was just way too expensive compared to the alternatives. Difference is that in Switzerland, you actually have to l

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Bullshit. What drove prices of electricity up across the EU was France buying everything they could get to prop up their failing nuclear-based grid with many plants down. This is very well documented and you could just have looked it up. Instead you make up some fantastic lies. Despicable.

      Incidentally, electricity import/export between Germany and France is balanced, but only because France is dumping its electricity exceptionally cheap in off-hours.

  • At what cost? (Score:3, Informative)

    by MacMann ( 7518492 ) on Thursday January 04, 2024 @01:24PM (#64131783)

    From the fine article:

    Emissions from industry fell significantly, largely due to a decline in production by energy-intensive companies.

    By driving up energy costs with their anti-nuclear policy they've driven out much of their industrial capacity. If they keep going down this path then they will only make their economy worse. This is hardly a "win" for them. It is common to see complaints that nations like the USA lowered CO2 by driving industry to China. Well, what do people think happened here? Maybe Germany didn't drive industry to China but they did drive it out of the country. In some cases we saw German factories get packed up and moved to North America where natural gas is cheap by comparison.

    The mention of industry seeking cheap natural gas gets to the lie that shutting down nuclear power plants has nothing to do with Germany's natural gas consumption. The claim is that natural gas provides heating and nuclear fission provides electricity so by shutting down nuclear power they aren't burning any more natural gas. Well, what was the plan on heating German homes when or if they replaced fossil fuels with renewable energy sources? That's right, electric heating.

    If Germany is planning to replace natural gas heating with electricity then they need large reliable sources of electricity to provide that electricity. If they are planning to lower CO2 emissions in the process then they need to use a reliable energy source that is also low in CO2 emissions. Given the scarcity of good places for hydroelectric dams in Germany they need nuclear fission for reliable low CO2 electricity. No nuclear fission means they will only get to their CO2 emissions goals by removing most every industry. I guess they can lower CO2 emissions by lowering population but most metrics on success for lowered CO2 is per capita so a lower population is hardly a means towards success.

    • Can you point to where the industrial base of Germany has been driven out? The real terms value-added output has increased over the period you mention, at least until the pandemic. It rose quite strongly in revenue terms 2000-2005, less strongly 2005-2020 and took a hit after 2020, much as it did in nuclear France. So the effect you claim doesn't seem to be actually evident in the figures. https://www.macrotrends.net/co... [macrotrends.net]. It's pretty easy to fact check these days.
    • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 )

      By driving up energy costs

      Oh that's right, I forgot. We need to destroy the planet in the name of keeping everything cheap. I take it you played with a lot of toys that had cheap lead paint from China as a kid right?

      they've driven out much of their industrial capacity

      No they haven't. They have 1/4 of the entire industrial production of the entire EU and they have had this quite consistently for the past 2 decades.

  • https://www.agora-energiewende... [agora-energiewende.de]

    They were only able to do this by consuming the full output of a couple of French nuclear plants. Spain is joining Germany in phasing out nuclear power, so I guess the French will have to build even more nuclear power plants.
    • I understand the point you are trying to make, but I'm not sure I see a problem with this. If the French are willing to build nuclear plants, run them, and sell the electricity at a profit to Germany and Spain - so what?

      • Germany's anti-nuke ethos is hypocritically shallow is the point. They are willing to use nuclear produced power and indirectly support the construction of more nuclear plants -- with the only caveat that this is done outside their country. Spain is on the same path. Overall it is good for all of Europe that France has this specialization and it is good for France too economically.
    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      A blatant direct lie. See here for the actual numbers: https://www.smard.de/page/home... [smard.de]
      Key finding: "Frankreich: Export: 8.405,8 GWh Import: 8.821,1 GWh" for 2023.

  • by ruddk ( 5153113 ) on Thursday January 04, 2024 @02:40PM (#64132167)

    Stop making it sound like it works.
    KwH prices are fluctuating wildly from hour to hour thanks to you. You don't have a proper grid between north and south to make good use of renewables. sigh.

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      It actually works nicely. That this does not fit _your_ deranged view of things has no impact on reality.

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