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United States Transportation

US Energy Secretary Says Anti-EV Sentiment is 'Political Nonsense' 382

Posted by msmash from the future-outlook dept.
An anonymous reader shares a report: Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm can relate to Americans' anxiety over electric vehicles. The former governor of Michigan and longtime EV owner (who currently drives a Ford Mach-E) says she has experienced her own challenges with public charging on road trips. She has heard from drivers who are reluctant to give up their eight-cylinder engines and large trucks and SUVs for an electric model. But she is convinced that more Americans will soon realize the benefits of owning one, helping to change the current anti-EV rhetoric in this country. [...] "All of those factories that I was talking about regarding building electric vehicles and electric vehicle batteries, 60% of them are going into red states. So, you know, people in red states love their EVs, too, and are working at these factories," Granholm said. "I just think that over time, the political nonsense about it will die down and people's experience will speak much more loudly."
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US Energy Secretary Says Anti-EV Sentiment is 'Political Nonsense' More

US Energy Secretary Says Anti-EV Sentiment is 'Political Nonsense'

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  • And ...? (Score:3)

    by AlanObject ( 3603453 ) on Friday January 26, 2024 @02:06PM (#64190122)

    Interesting how it becomes newsworthy when a cabinet member says something so obvious. And then nothing more of substance.

  • Part of it is stupid implementation. Electric buses are great, cheap, very light and reliable even compared to ICE buses. Battery electric buses are so heavy they cut into passenger capacity and eat roads and tires faster all while reducing reliability as batteries just can't get a bus through a whole service day. The takeaway is, always implement overhead power for scheduled route vehicles.

    Electrify mass transit, but don't leave people stranded and waste electricity by relying on batteries and charging loss. Run the overhead wires.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by UnknowingFool ( 672806 )
      But you are taking about the US here. A large portion of the US does not rely on mass transit. Outside major cities in the north east and possibly Chicago, the vast majority of the population like in the south uses cars.

      • And there is seriously no way to change this?

        Or is it just because there is too much corporate resistance to improving mass transit in the US?

        • Many cities aren't walkable like in Europe, because they grew up post-automobile and were designed around that. Mass transit isn't well funded or expanded, so it can be luck if you live where you can actually use mass transit that isn't a bus. Great in Manhattan, but in L.A. it's sparse. And people have looked down on it because it's associated with people too poor to own a car. There are some people really hostile to the idea, it's not country enough for them, or too socialist, or whatever stupid thing

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by irving47 ( 73147 )

          Yes there's a way to change it. Start putting in skyscraper apartments and condos in the cities where you want the mass transit. Oh, and make it safer. And cleaner. (I'm talking about inside the vehicles)

          For every foreign person/country/entity that pushes hard for mass transit/electric busses, there's someone that is forgetting how sparsely populated MOST areas of the country still are.

        • And there is seriously no way to change this?

          Never been to the U.S., have you? People deliberately live outside cities so they don't have to put up with the noise, the heat in summer, the pollution, and all the people. Those who could left the cities back in the day to show how upwardly mobile they were. They weren't stuck in the city with everyone else.

          That developed into the suburbs where (most) people don't want to live shoulder to shoulder with their neighbor. They want some space between th

        • Idunno. I wouldn't call refraining to run empty buses or building rail to nowhere in sparsely populated areas a form of corporate resistance.

          For those not from America, the reason is simple: even in large metro areas, more than half the population (by a large margin in some places) lives in detached single family homes situated on at least 0.25 acres of land (often more) with a population density well under what would make transit a viable option.

          Given that this is often done by choice, the only way to "cha

        • Large swaths of the U.S. are either rural or small town. It just doesn't make financial sense for mass transit except for in the large(r) cities.

          Take where I live for example, it's a large food producing area, but the population density is small. The town I live in has ~2,000 people. Not worth any type of mass transit. The nearest grocery store is ~2 miles (~3 and a little bit km) away - but very few people shop there because it's literally 3-4X as expensive as the one ~7 miles away.

          I'm also almost an hour

      • Re:Increase reliability, stop subsidizing batterie (Score:5, Insightful)

        by MightyMartian ( 840721 ) on Friday January 26, 2024 @03:00PM (#64190308) Journal

        The large majority of the US has a commute of about 26-27 minutes, or just under an hour both ways. Let that sink in for a moment. Discard the outliers, like guys who live in Montana and have to drive fifty miles uphill both ways to and from work. The average American spends less than an hour moving between home and work.

        So what that says in the vast majority of usage cases, an EV is more than adequate, and if there are issues, it isn't with battery capacity, it's probably limitations in the electrical grid.

        I don't know of too many other fields of inquiry where the obsession is purely with the least likely use case scenarios; of some guy with a 10 cylinder Dodge Ram that tows a 10 foot utility trailer up a mountain range five days a week, and that decisions are made at the highest levels based on that guy, as opposed to the 90+ other people who don't have a commute like that at all. I would imagine that if I were to look for a historical counterpart, it might be when they started building the canal systems in England in the 16th century, and I'm sure there were guys who horse and ox-pulled carts right pissed that their livelihoods were threatened, or when the canal system itself was again made redundant by a new group of capitalists and bureaucrats laying down track. I'm sure all the horse-drawn cab drivers were outraged by stinky petrol-swilling exhaust-puking automobiles literally tearing their livelihood out from underneath them.

        • Re:Increase reliability, stop subsidizing batterie (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Powercntrl ( 458442 ) on Friday January 26, 2024 @03:41PM (#64190454) Homepage

          I think people are in love with the idea that they technically could hop in their petrol-fueled car and drive to say, Florida for vacation.

          Even though in reality, they'll likely just drive their car to the airport and take a plane to their destination. Because while it made a hilarious plot point for an 80s comedy movie, in real life most people don't want to waste the majority of their time off on the road, listening to their kids incessantly whine "are we there yet!?"

          • This might blow your mind: I can go into my garage right now, enter "Disney World" into the navigation, and it would plot me a course from Portland, OR to Walt Disney World in Florida with all the necessary charging stops built in.

            If you don't have an EV that was punted out the door simply for a manufacturer to be able to claim that they are selling EVs, then this also isn't a problem.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Kiliani ( 816330 )

            Ironically, that is what I do several times a year (not Florida, though - who wants to visit Florida ...) to visit family. 2,000 - 4,000 miles round trip. Load up the minivan, go. Stopping for 5 minutes to gas up and then keep going is useful, I don't drive at night, don't like hitting large animals at night, so I want to maximize daytime driving time. The majority of these trips happen in sparsely populated areas. Gas station density is always decent, and I can stop when I want to, not when my car wants m

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Posting AC to not undo mods:

          I live in Austin. Most stuff isn't that long a ride, a few miles, so in theory it -can- be biked. However, there are a ton of roads to be crossed, and even with bike corridors, you have to deal with a very hostile, road-raging (and it isn't their fault, the roads in recent years were stripped of lanes and turned into video-game like mazes, adding speed bumps, sharp turns, hour-glass protusions into the street, and random lines that nobody can figure out. All this contributes t

      • Yes, if we got 10% more poeple using mass transit, then we'd probably still save on fuel, pollution, and greenhouse gases even if the mass transit doesn't go electric. And Uber is _not_ mass transit.

    • Re:Increase reliability, stop subsidizing batterie (Score:5, Interesting)

      by superdave80 ( 1226592 ) on Friday January 26, 2024 @02:27PM (#64190198)

      Partially agree, but overhead wires are a PAIN to implement and maintain. The solution to this is to install induction chargers below the street at bus stops. While stopping for a few minutes, charge the (smaller) battery. No fuss with plugging in, overhead wires, etc., and the constant small charges are better for the battery anyways.

      There are fixes for EV issues, but the right needs to stop bitchin' about them, the left needs to stop glossing over them (and forcing people into them by threatening ICE bans), and we ALL need to work to improve EVs. ICE vehicles were terrible when they first came out (seriously, starting one could kill you), but we didn't throw them away and stick to horses.

      • Re:Increase reliability, stop subsidizing batterie (Score:5, Interesting)

        by ukoda ( 537183 ) on Friday January 26, 2024 @02:56PM (#64190288) Homepage
        Inductive charging is tidy and at bus stops commercial viable, unlike crazy suggestion for converting whole roads. However a pantograph system at bus stops is better. I have seen them in use in China. Probably cheaper but more importantly you can transfer much more power in that brief stop, making the whole concept of topping up at stops more viable.

        • Do you have any source on being able to transfer more power?

          A big beefy induction charger can probably max out the battery's charge limit.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by ukoda ( 537183 )
            No, I can't back up my assumption, so it is possible you are right. More my gut feel. However I think I am safe in say a pantograph would be cheaper and have less losses.
        • Current prototype inductive charging systems I've seen are already hitting 200kw for regular EVs, so I doubt power output would be a huge issue.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by ukoda ( 537183 )
            I am assuming to get those levels of power transfer the coils need to physically aligned and close. Lowering the pick coil would probably be no more complicated that raising a pantograph but a pantograph would have wider tolerances on where the bus stops and lower energy transfer losses. It would also be cheaper.

            Don't get me wrong, stationary inductive charging is pretty cool, wouldn't mind one in my garage, but for bus stops I think the KISS principle may apply.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Teun ( 17872 )
          Last year I was in the French city of Bordeaux where I rode the trams, in the city center they have inductive power instead of overhead lines and it works fine.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by ukoda ( 537183 )
            Good to know. The busses I rode in China only had over head power on the bus stops, not along the route.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by roman_mir ( 125474 )

        Ha, you again with your energized roads, peddling this again?

        The road needs to be the road first of all, the asphalt of concrete needs to do its primary job, anything that may be added to it will increase the costs of the work, will increase the costs of maintenance, it will be significant, it's infrastructure. Just like the electric rail installation in any subway, this has to be accessible for maintenance at any moment in time, but it won't be accessible in the same way, because it's going to be covered b

    • I think that you're using old figures for BEV buses. Of course, a "lot" of them have been, and are being, built using older less efficient battery technology. I've even read of some technical horrors like them not having regenerative braking, because implementing that costs money. Even though for a stop and go intercity bus, that's kind of critical.

      There are actually lots of busses that can make a full shift on a route without needing to be charged. We know that 300-400 mile BEVs are possible. Doing so

      • Running overhead wires has the problem that now you have more electrified wires to fall in bad weather and such, you're limiting how high vehicles can be, etc...

        There's one other drawback to overhead wires - it's ugly AF, so all the neighborhood NIMBYs who already don't want transit stops are going to endlessly complain about the overhead wires.

        And yes, there are real problems anywhere that routinely gets ice storms and such.

    • Increase reliability - The thing that engineers spend all their time working on? Yep, doing it. It is not instant, but they are doing it. New models are much better than the ones from 5 years ago, much less the ones from decades ago.

      Stop subsidizing batteries - When an industry is in early stages, it does not generate enough revenue to cover costs (R&D + Buildout = expensive) so we subsidize it until it reaches a breakeven and can run without subsidy. If we cut subsidies now, we will slow the rate of

    • Overhead lines are a regression. Current tech (read: 5+ year old tech now in production and application) is heavy and less efficient. #1 do they need such large batteries? Probably not. #2 charge rates and energy densities are improving and an incredible rate still. If it's too heavy today, it'll continue to be 5-10% better energy density and probably > 20% faster charge rate per year, every year, for the foreseeable future.

  • YUP (Score:2, Troll)

    by christoban ( 3028573 )

    Yep, ignorance of how EVs are intended to be used.

    But a lot of it is also ignorance of the importance of how electric devices fit into long term energy production and consumption. Long term, the desire is to have most energy produced by clean energy, and make transmission and consumption of energy more flexible and efficient.

  • It's the charging time (Score:3)

    by xack ( 5304745 ) on Friday January 26, 2024 @02:16PM (#64190158)
    Let me "fill" an electric car by plugging into a "as-fast-as-gas" charger at "charging pumps" and keep the existing gas station infrastructure and culture with it.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by ukoda ( 537183 )
      If that is what you want then go for it. Personally I see that as a way to deal with road trips. For daily driving charging at home, if you have the option, is far better as it is faster and cheaper for the driver.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

        Requirement: sufficient wealth to be able to own a home with dedicated charger.

        Combine this with same parties pushing for EVs also pushing for "15 minute cities" and you quickly arrive at the inevitable conclusion that these two goals are mutually exclusive.

        (In before "but the curb charging").

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by ukoda ( 537183 )
          EV charging at home is very much where broadband Internet access was at a few years ago. If you rented or lived in an apartment then no broadband Internet for you. These days that is less of a problem. If you want good tenants paying good rental rates you will need to add charging. Where you have to park on the street then there will need to be street side parking. Fair to say that will take longer and will likely start with more affluent areas but should eventually become common in all areas where the

    • Sure, we need to fit EVs into the existing gas car paradigm.

      By the same token, though, let me 'fill' a gas car overnight by connecting to my home gas supply so that every morning, I'm driving away with a full tank, rather than having to stop at a 'gas station.'

      That said, I do think that a requirement that for every two gas pumps you have you must have 1 150kw or better charger would solve a lot of problems. Start out with places with 16 pumps or something, and then require places with 12 pumps in a few yea

    • I'd rather "fill" my electric car by plugging into a "charger" mounted on the wall of my garage, and then not think about it at all until the next time I'm driving over 250 miles in a day.

      Having a "full" vehicle every single time you get into it, and never having to go to a "charging pump" or any other kind of pump except in rare circumstance is a far superior experience.

  • no understanding of issues (Score:3, Interesting)

    by roman_mir ( 125474 ) on Friday January 26, 2024 @02:20PM (#64190174) Homepage Journal

    So according to this energy secretary (wtf is that anyway, is there a toilet secretary too? 'land of the free'...) she can relate to Americans about things. That's amazing, is she American? Is she human, can she 'relate to humans' as well? I am just curious about this part, because she said herself that she can 'relate to Americans'. Also she believes there is 'anxiety' over EVs. I don't think there is anxiety over EVs, I think Americans have anxiety because they have an 'energy secretary' and they should. Apparently their lives are impacted by all these secretaries.

    I think Americans themselves can decide for themselves what they want to drive, what works for them, they don't need an 'energy secretary' to tell them any of that.

    • No, according to ABCNews she can relate to Americans, which for some reason has you questioning whether she's human. And she's right, and you're wrong, that there is 'anxiety' about electric vehicles; it manifests as idiots wondering whether someone is human or why we have people to look into important topics instead of floundering about like a bunch of idiots. For more normal people, the anxiety manifests as the vague feeling that the government is going to push for electric vehicles and against gas vehicl

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ukoda ( 537183 )
      Did you not read what she wrote? Granholm said. "I just think that over time, the political nonsense about it will die down and people's experience will speak much more loudly.".

      Basically she was expressing her option and that in time you will work it out yourself. She was not telling you what you have to do or mandating anything.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by necro81 ( 917438 )

      wtf is that anyway, is there a toilet secretary too? 'land of the free'....I think Americans have anxiety because they have an 'energy secretary' and they should

      Rick Perry [youtube.com], is that you [time.com]?

  • Politics has nothing to do with it, idiot. There is no fucking infrastructure and its slow as fuck and other problems listed above.

    I will drive what I want to drive. Go piss up a rope.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Gravis Zero ( 934156 )

      As An Anarchist I Can Laugh.

      But everyone else can laugh at you for believing you're actually an anarchist.

  • Don't Underestimate Politics (Score:5, Insightful)

    by crow ( 16139 ) on Friday January 26, 2024 @02:34PM (#64190216) Homepage Journal

    Dismissing the anti-EV crowd as political nonsense is seriously underestimating politics. Politics has religious levels of commitment. When it comes to EVs, we have a ton of Can't-Do Anti-Environmentalists. There is zero willingness to adjust to any change, like slightly longer charging times on trips vs. never stopping for gas at all when you charge at home. There is no acceptance of reality as technology changes, so isses that have been solved for years keep getting raised. There is no anticipation of changes to come, so future deadlines are rejected based on current conditions.

    You'll always see lots of comments that fit into the above criteria on any story like this. Even if you go to EV-specific sites, you'll still see the comments, as the Can't-Doers seek them out.

    • It's not just kneejerk anti-environmentalists who aren't thrilled about EVs--they have problems.

      One is cost-effectiveness,
      Two is charge time,
      Three is unavailability of charging infrastructure.
      Four is lack of good enough EV options, just in terms of being good enough as cars.

      I'd be willing to get an EV just for driving to/from work, and living with some issues, but I don't find the cost compelling enough to make the switch, and also I'm not willing to pay top dollar for a 2nd or 3rd rate car.

      New technologies like cheaper, more easily swappable, solid state batteries, and better quality will tip me over the edge into getting an EV--I genuinely want one, I just want it to be better than what's currently available, and I want it to be a good value.

      --PM

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by crow ( 16139 )

        As to the specific points:

        1. A Tesla Model 3 is at about the median new car price (and has been for years), so roughly half the new car market is covered, and lower-cost options are expanding that. Yeah, it's probably less than half if you break it down by EVs in various classes, but prices are dropping. The used EV market is just getting to the point of having enough supply to be a real market, though it still has a ways to go, too.

        2. It's different. If you can charge at home, you'll spend a bit longer

      • It's not just kneejerk anti-environmentalists who aren't thrilled about EVs--they have problems.

        One is cost-effectiveness,
        Two is charge time,
        Three is unavailability of charging infrastructure.
        Four is lack of good enough EV options, just in terms of being good enough as cars.

        I'd be willing to get an EV just for driving to/from work, and living with some issues, but I don't find the cost compelling enough to make the switch, and also I'm not willing to pay top dollar for a 2nd or 3rd rate car.

        New technologies like cheaper, more easily swappable, solid state batteries, and better quality will tip me over the edge into getting an EV--I genuinely want one, I just want it to be better than what's currently available, and I want it to be a good value.

        --PM

        Writing every EV on the market off as a completely shitty car is perhaps not kneejerk anti-environmentalist but it is certainly kneejerk anti-EV. I share your concerns about range and charging times (although in the end I don't think either is going to be a show stopper for me). I'm also wondering how resalable some of these lithium battery powered cars will be when the warranty on their batteries runs and people can expect a repair bill for the battery that's higher than what the value of the same car woul

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jsepeta ( 412566 )

        no matter how you slice it, EVs are tremendously more expensive than combustion-engine based cars and trucks. Like "The bank won't give me a loan for that much money" too expensive.

    • Re:Don't Underestimate Politics (Score:5, Insightful)

      by smoot123 ( 1027084 ) on Friday January 26, 2024 @03:35PM (#64190428)

      Dismissing the anti-EV crowd as political nonsense is seriously underestimating politics. Politics has religious levels of commitment.

      Spot on. I suspect there's a ton of anti-EV sentiment simply because we're being forced to adopt them. Same as with COVID vaccines: people didn't like them not because any substantial, scientific reason but because The Other Team was forcing them to get vaccinated. In other words, it TOT mandated everyone eat some chocolate ice cream, you'd have vigorous protests just for the sake of protesting.

      Team EV may want to bear this in mind. If EVs really are so great, we'll all adopt them in due course. The harder you try to speed up that transition, the more resentment and heel in-digging there will be.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Dismissing the anti-EV crowd as political nonsense is seriously underestimating politics. Politics has religious levels of commitment.

      Politics in the USA has religious levels of commitment. Elsewhere in the world it is just a matter of deciding which member of the clown posse currently running for office is the least corrupt and least brain dead shit-stain moron and then voting for that person. We don't worship these assholes.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ukoda ( 537183 )
      One takeaway from what she was saying is that in time people will work it out for themselves. I do find it funny how many people who have clearly never used a BEV are telling me what I can and can't do with mine. I must be god by their definition as I clear defy what they say is possible.

      The good news is in time simple market forces and real world experience will see such detractors become a fringe minority. Much like all those folks who swore they would never use the Internet or never buy a cellphone
  • According to a report by NPR, during a trip promoting the Biden administration’s green energy policies, one of Granholm’s staffers on the advance team “realized there weren’t going to be enough plugs to go around” for Granholm’s electric vehicle, so the staffer parked a gas-powered vehicle to block the only free charging spot for the Energy Secretary. https://www.dailywire.com/news... [dailywire.com]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ukoda ( 537183 )
      Yea, a bad look. Given the range of her BEV and likely other offsite charging options I doubt she actually need to charge there. Looking at a map there was a 7 bay fast charging station 2 miles away and dozens of charging options with a few miles of Grovetown. It could be that staffer was overly enthusiastic about giving their boss favorable treatment. It may also have been a poorly thought out idea for a photo op that backfired on them.

      • I would say it's just indicative of a mentality that tries to gaslight because reality does not coincide with narrative.

  • Disposable EV cars due to battery costs (Score:3, Interesting)

    by sinij ( 911942 ) on Friday January 26, 2024 @02:42PM (#64190240)
    2017 Hyundai Ioniq requires $50,000 battery [driving.ca]. With only 69,000km (42874 miles), that is $1.17 per mile! While Hyundai is infamous for pricing replacement batteries so the car is written off, who can afford replacement battery for an out of warranty EV? ICE Hyundai with a totaled engine or transmission, which does happen, would only cost 5-10K to fix.

    • Which goes back to Right to Repair, parts pairing, and a free market in replacement parts.

      A $60K repair bill on a fender bender is how you know there's no free market at work.

      Even a gold-digging scoundrel would do the job for $20K.
       

    • My Nissan Leaf is in need of a fresh battery, but they stopped making the replacement packs and at the overall price for the several year old stock of remaining batteries makes no economical sense. I can get a Bolt with a fresh battery for pretty darn cheap with more than double the range.

      Really sad state of affairs to chuck a whole car out, but here we are.

      • I can get a Bolt with a fresh battery for pretty darn cheap with more than double the range.

        A bunch of those popped up at a Chevy dealer near me a few months ago. Mostly '17 and '18 model years with very low miles (around 18-35k) that were buybacks from California with the battery replaced. The dealer was pretty much selling them for the value of the battery. If you qualified for the used EV tax credit, they were a damn steal in today's used car market.

        Of course, the one major caveat was that DCFC wasn't standard on those model years and the majority of the cars supported L1/L2 charging only. T

  • BEVs are a dead end tech (Score:3)

    by Dereck1701 ( 1922824 ) on Friday January 26, 2024 @03:29PM (#64190404)

    Pure battery EVs are doomed to failure for the mass market without major technological improvements. The batteries are simply too costly, too heavy and don't have the necessary longevity (or the necessary limiters to prevent damage). There have been many horror stories as of late about relatively new EVs that need 20-60k dollar battery replacements and rental companies are abandoning them due to them eating their tires in record time and obscene costs for body work repairs. The sad part is there is an interim solution that would provide most of the advantages of BEVs but few of the drawbacks, well designed plug in Hybrids. Simply design a vehicle from the ground up as an EV, but instead of putting a massive battery in it put a much more modest battery (with battery safeguards) appropriate for daily commuting and then bolt a "secondary power generator" into a corner of the trunk/frunk that kicks in when the main battery gets low. That secondary power generator can be gas, diesel, biofuel, methane, propane, hydrogen or even (as technology improves) another battery, perhaps an aluminum air one. Unfortunately the religious zeal for "zero emission" everything by regulators and activists discourages manufacturers from going that route due because they'll be crushed under the weight of regulations/lack of tax incentives and media hit pieces berating them for "climate denial".

    • They said all the same things about automobiles a hundred years ago. Why would you want one of those things when you could have a horse?
    • The majority of the cited issues pertain to EV being conflated with iPad on wheels. The manufacturers need to absolutely cease the bullshit with making the cars glued together monolithic bodies like ipads. There is zero reason to not use conventional assembly techniques and put a plain old battery and electric powertrain into a car and it DOES NOT need a fucking OLED dashboard from door to door and a refrigerator and panini maker and superfluous shit like that. It's entirely the OEMs at fault here and us

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by necro81 ( 917438 )

      The batteries are simply too costly, too heavy and don't have the necessary longevity (or the necessary limiters to prevent damage).

      And always will be? That sounds like a "640k ought to be enough for anyone" kind of comment.

      Tesla warranties their new vehicles for 8 years or 100k miles on the Model 3 and Y (150k miles for Model S and X). That's on par with the warranty for an ICE vehicle. And do you think the vehicle poofs into dust just after the warranty expires like The Deacon's Masterpiece [google.com]? No

      • "And always will be? That sounds like a "640k ought to be enough for anyone" kind of comment. "
        Did you miss where I said "without major technological improvements", "interim solution" & "or even (as technology improves) another battery".

        "Tesla warranties their new vehicles for 8 years or 100k "
        While a Tesla (I doubt so for other manufacturers) vehicles battery will, if well cared for, generally last longer than an ICE engine (200k vs 300k miles) when it hits the end of that life the costs are far larger

  • Yeah okay (Score:3)

    by DarkOx ( 621550 ) on Friday January 26, 2024 @03:33PM (#64190424) Journal

    Big government diversity hire propaganda mouth piece calls opposition nonsense.

    I would say the same is true for the BS that comes out of her mouth and I choose not just to dismiss it but re-double my commitment to vote her boss out of office so she can get her walking papers too!

  • The political nonsense will take care of itself. But that will leave the real barriers to a quick transition to pure BEV vehicles. I wish the secretary was spending more energy creating a realistic path to reducing emissions and less time on the politics. But then she is a politician.

    • The political nonsense will take care of itself.

      It absolutely will as more people become sick of the pricing games being played at the pump. Gas just jumped up by $0.30/gal sometime in the last two weeks around here. Word of mount from people who own EVs also will do some convincing of its own.

      My partner's family is fairly right-wing and they complained quite a bit that he bought an EV. They made jokes about it being an "underpowered golf cart" and said he'd be having to stop to charge it all the time. Then he actually let them ride in it to experien

  • Charging (Score:2, Interesting)

    by farble1670 ( 803356 )

    If we could snap our fingers and convert every has engine to electric the country would grind to a halt. Imagine if there were 100x fewer gas stations (that's generous), and it took 10x as long to fill your tank.

    Get a charging station at home right? What about the huge number of people that live in apts or otherwise rent and that's not an option? If you have station at your apt, you're still going to have the nightmare of shuffling your car around with every single other person at the complex.

    Guaranteed, in

  • she's one to talk (Score:3)

    by irving47 ( 73147 ) on Friday January 26, 2024 @04:31PM (#64190662) Homepage

    she's the one that was on a press tour or some other public-facing trip and sent part of her motorcade ahead to a charging station to "reserve" her spot so the rest of her entourage could sit there and charge without having to wait, like the "commoners"

  • Granholm is an incompetent box-ticking moron. I remember watching her in an interview where in response to the question "What is the Granholm plan to increase oil production" she laughed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

    And when she went on an EV promotion tour her ICE escort was blocking a charger so they would not have to wait. https://www.youtube.com/shorts... [youtube.com]

  • EV Battery charging issues in cold weather are not political, they are real and they are difficult to resolve.
    1) batteries are less efficient in the cold
    2) chargers are slower in the cold
    3) if your vehicle's battery isn't warm to begin with, it will not charge
    4) wait times outside charging stations are longer, especially when batteries are charging more slowly

  • There seems to be a coordinated effort... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MpVpRb ( 1423381 ) on Friday January 26, 2024 @10:09PM (#64191454)

    ...across both mainstream media and social media to greatly amplify the problems of EVs. A battery fire is front page news everywhere while gas fires are ignored. Memes of EVs stuck in the snow are shared endlessly, while ICE cars that won't start in cold weather are ignored. Emergency roadside assistance, where a gas generator is used to give an EV a bit of charge is ridiculed as if it was the standard method of charging.

    Methinks the PR agencies of the oil companies are working overtime, supported by armies of conservatives whose tribal allegiance forces them to hate EVs, regardless of the facts

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